[81alum]

I don't know if "hey maybe our OL will stop being shockingly incompetent" is stubbornness, especially for a team whose problem in losses historically has been not running enough.

This is where I would appreciate an ex lineman to tell us what was going on.  Did the WSU D-line get into our backfield so often because our O linemen were incompetent and missed blocks?  Or was it some sort of scheme for which our O line was not prepared?  Was there a possible counter to what the D-line was doing that a coach could have implemented?  Or was the only "counter" simply blocking better?

I really don't know.  It is hard for me to believe that these highly recruited linemen, playing for coaches who have had great success with O-lines in the past, are simply incompetent.  Yet they failed miserably.  I'd like an expert's diagnosis as to why, since it seems so surreal.

[81alum]

I don't know if "hey maybe our OL will stop being shockingly incompetent" is stubbornness, especially for a team whose problem in losses historically has been not running enough.

This is where I would appreciate an ex lineman to tell us what was going on.  Did the WSU D-line get into our backfield so often because our O linemen were incompetent and missed blocks?  Or was it some sort of scheme for which our O line was not prepared?  Was there a possible counter to what the D-line was doing that a coach could have implemented?  Or was the only "counter" simply blocking better?

I really don't know.  It is hard for me to believe that these highly recruited linemen, playing for coaches who have had great success with O-lines in the past, are simply incompetent.  Yet they failed miserably.  I'd like an expert's diagnosis as to why, since it seems so surreal.

[82lsju]

more from the SJMN

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/11/04/st...t-pullman/

[82lsju]

more from the SJMN

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/11/04/st...t-pullman/

[stupac2]

[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=17904.msg210806#msg210806 date=1509892824]
I don't know if "hey maybe our OL will stop being shockingly incompetent" is stubbornness, especially for a team whose problem in losses historically has been not running enough.

This is where I would appreciate an ex lineman to tell us what was going on.  Did the WSU D-line get into our backfield so often because our O linemen were incompetent and missed blocks?  Or was it some sort of scheme for which our O line was not prepared?  Was there a possible counter to what the D-line was doing that a coach could have implemented?  Or was the only "counter" simply blocking better?

I really don't know.  It is hard for me to believe that these highly recruited linemen, playing for coaches who have had great success with O-lines in the past, are simply incompetent.  Yet they failed miserably.  I'd like an expert's diagnosis as to why, since it seems so surreal.
[/quote]

I definitely can't help there, but it does seem like we've historically struggled against these "small but fast" DLs more than we really ought to. It seems like for the past few years WSU has just had our number, and that's concerning.

[stupac2]

[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=17904.msg210806#msg210806 date=1509892824]
I don't know if "hey maybe our OL will stop being shockingly incompetent" is stubbornness, especially for a team whose problem in losses historically has been not running enough.

This is where I would appreciate an ex lineman to tell us what was going on.  Did the WSU D-line get into our backfield so often because our O linemen were incompetent and missed blocks?  Or was it some sort of scheme for which our O line was not prepared?  Was there a possible counter to what the D-line was doing that a coach could have implemented?  Or was the only "counter" simply blocking better?

I really don't know.  It is hard for me to believe that these highly recruited linemen, playing for coaches who have had great success with O-lines in the past, are simply incompetent.  Yet they failed miserably.  I'd like an expert's diagnosis as to why, since it seems so surreal.
[/quote]

I definitely can't help there, but it does seem like we've historically struggled against these "small but fast" DLs more than we really ought to. It seems like for the past few years WSU has just had our number, and that's concerning.

[phxfan]

[quote author=winflop link=topic=17904.msg210735#msg210735 date=1509848991]
[quote author=hurlburt88 link=topic=17904.msg210619#msg210619 date=1509836153]
Agreed.  and we see why the starting QB decision not obvious to the coaches . . .

Costello is not why they lost today. OL & Shawgren are why they lost.
[/quote]

B I N G O.
[/quote]

I agree.

[phxfan]

[quote author=winflop link=topic=17904.msg210735#msg210735 date=1509848991]
[quote author=hurlburt88 link=topic=17904.msg210619#msg210619 date=1509836153]
Agreed.  and we see why the starting QB decision not obvious to the coaches . . .

Costello is not why they lost today. OL & Shawgren are why they lost.
[/quote]

B I N G O.
[/quote]

I agree.

[phxfan]

[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=17904.msg210806#msg210806 date=1509892824]
I don't know if "hey maybe our OL will stop being shockingly incompetent" is stubbornness, especially for a team whose problem in losses historically has been not running enough.

This is where I would appreciate an ex lineman to tell us what was going on.  Did the WSU D-line get into our backfield so often because our O linemen were incompetent and missed blocks?  Or was it some sort of scheme for which our O line was not prepared?  Was there a possible counter to what the D-line was doing that a coach could have implemented?  Or was the only "counter" simply blocking better?

I really don't know.  It is hard for me to believe that these highly recruited linemen, playing for coaches who have had great success with O-lines in the past, are simply incompetent.  Yet they failed miserably.  I'd like an expert's diagnosis as to why, since it seems so surreal.
[/quote]

Your questions seem to hit on the problems very well.

[phxfan]

[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=17904.msg210806#msg210806 date=1509892824]
I don't know if "hey maybe our OL will stop being shockingly incompetent" is stubbornness, especially for a team whose problem in losses historically has been not running enough.

This is where I would appreciate an ex lineman to tell us what was going on.  Did the WSU D-line get into our backfield so often because our O linemen were incompetent and missed blocks?  Or was it some sort of scheme for which our O line was not prepared?  Was there a possible counter to what the D-line was doing that a coach could have implemented?  Or was the only "counter" simply blocking better?

I really don't know.  It is hard for me to believe that these highly recruited linemen, playing for coaches who have had great success with O-lines in the past, are simply incompetent.  Yet they failed miserably.  I'd like an expert's diagnosis as to why, since it seems so surreal.
[/quote]

Your questions seem to hit on the problems very well.

[CornFed]

I agree tha Costello did not contribute meaningfully to losing the game.  Sure didn't seem that he did anything that would result in him not starting next week.  Hopefully, he'll show some progress next week.  It is not like a light switch and there were things in the game last night from which he can gain significant learning.

I am braced, however, for the possibility that he might be another version of Burns and Chryst; different strengths and different weaknesses.  Hogan went through a long and uneven path to become an excellent college QB.  That position seems to demand a somewhat greater balance of emotional/psychological, physical and mental capability than others.  Hopefully, KJ possesses that quality.  If not, I sure hope Mills does.  That is a long way off, though, and KJ can do a lot to fend off Mills next Spring by demonstrating growth in the next three weeks.

[CornFed]

I agree tha Costello did not contribute meaningfully to losing the game.  Sure didn't seem that he did anything that would result in him not starting next week.  Hopefully, he'll show some progress next week.  It is not like a light switch and there were things in the game last night from which he can gain significant learning.

I am braced, however, for the possibility that he might be another version of Burns and Chryst; different strengths and different weaknesses.  Hogan went through a long and uneven path to become an excellent college QB.  That position seems to demand a somewhat greater balance of emotional/psychological, physical and mental capability than others.  Hopefully, KJ possesses that quality.  If not, I sure hope Mills does.  That is a long way off, though, and KJ can do a lot to fend off Mills next Spring by demonstrating growth in the next three weeks.

[hayaka]

Would like to have been at the game to see whether the receivers were getting separation and Costello just wasn't finding them, or they simply couldn't get open. One would think there was a lot of one-on-one coverage, with so much of Wazzu's focus on stopping Love.   

[hayaka]

Would like to have been at the game to see whether the receivers were getting separation and Costello just wasn't finding them, or they simply couldn't get open. One would think there was a lot of one-on-one coverage, with so much of Wazzu's focus on stopping Love.   

[PalmTree]

[quote author=81alum link=topic=17904.msg210810#msg210810 date=1509894444]
[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=17904.msg210806#msg210806 date=1509892824]
I don't know if "hey maybe our OL will stop being shockingly incompetent" is stubbornness, especially for a team whose problem in losses historically has been not running enough.

This is where I would appreciate an ex lineman to tell us what was going on.  Did the WSU D-line get into our backfield so often because our O linemen were incompetent and missed blocks?  Or was it some sort of scheme for which our O line was not prepared?  Was there a possible counter to what the D-line was doing that a coach could have implemented?  Or was the only "counter" simply blocking better?

I really don't know.  It is hard for me to believe that these highly recruited linemen, playing for coaches who have had great success with O-lines in the past, are simply incompetent.  Yet they failed miserably.  I'd like an expert's diagnosis as to why, since it seems so surreal.
[/quote]

Your questions seem to hit on the problems very well.
[/quote]

Agree - from what i remember, WSU parried our long snap counts with quick, last-second realignments that seemed to catch our guys, for want of a better term - totally off-guard.  Their front 7 also added mixtures of slants and stunts to further add to the mayhem, Their quickness off the ball was just the icing on the cake.  In the first half, I remember one of our interior guys, who shall remain nameless out of respect for our dashed title and bowl hopes, reacting so slowly to a hard slant off his right shoulder, he literally lunged forward out of his stance and fell flat on his face..... just brutal, intellectually, and otherwise....  :-[

[PalmTree]

[quote author=81alum link=topic=17904.msg210810#msg210810 date=1509894444]
[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=17904.msg210806#msg210806 date=1509892824]
I don't know if "hey maybe our OL will stop being shockingly incompetent" is stubbornness, especially for a team whose problem in losses historically has been not running enough.

This is where I would appreciate an ex lineman to tell us what was going on.  Did the WSU D-line get into our backfield so often because our O linemen were incompetent and missed blocks?  Or was it some sort of scheme for which our O line was not prepared?  Was there a possible counter to what the D-line was doing that a coach could have implemented?  Or was the only "counter" simply blocking better?

I really don't know.  It is hard for me to believe that these highly recruited linemen, playing for coaches who have had great success with O-lines in the past, are simply incompetent.  Yet they failed miserably.  I'd like an expert's diagnosis as to why, since it seems so surreal.
[/quote]

Your questions seem to hit on the problems very well.
[/quote]

Agree - from what i remember, WSU parried our long snap counts with quick, last-second realignments that seemed to catch our guys, for want of a better term - totally off-guard.  Their front 7 also added mixtures of slants and stunts to further add to the mayhem, Their quickness off the ball was just the icing on the cake.  In the first half, I remember one of our interior guys, who shall remain nameless out of respect for our dashed title and bowl hopes, reacting so slowly to a hard slant off his right shoulder, he literally lunged forward out of his stance and fell flat on his face..... just brutal, intellectually, and otherwise....  :-[

[BostonCard]

I agree tha Costello did not contribute meaningfully to losing the game.  Sure didn't seem that he did anything that would result in him not starting next week.  Hopefully, he'll show some progress next week.  It is not like a light switch and there were things in the game last night from which he can gain significant learning.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "Costello did not contribute meaningfully to losing the game".  If what you mean is "we could have won the game with Costello's performance", then I agree.  On the other hand, if you mean "Even better performance at the QB position would not have won the game" then I disagree.  During the game thread, (midway through the game) I went through his incomplete passes.  He had one throw batted at the line of scrimmage.  One throw where it was almost an interception and JJAW had to play DB.  A couple others that were inaccurate (for example, the one that went under Trent Irwin or the one low and behind our tight end).  More accuracy on his throws an I suspect we would have scored more.  There were, of course, at least two incompletions where there was substantial pass interference with the receiver that wasn't called.  He also had a few nice throws, and his awareness on the fumble and scramble for a TD was one of two offensive scores on the day.  I think the biggest question mark, and I am not sure if he was coached to do this or just read poorly, was not keeping the ball on a few of the read options (it is hard to say whether the play call was a read option or simply an inside handoff to Love).  The keeper was open all day, and if he had the option, he should have kept it.  That would have gotten us a bunch of yardage for one, and it would have forced WSU to make an adjustment and not constantly crash Love, which may have opened up the running game.  But again, hard to know if that was on Costello or on the coaches.

The bottom line is that on a day where we lost by 3 points, it might not have taken a lot of better individual performances or different play calls to win.

BC

[BostonCard]

I agree tha Costello did not contribute meaningfully to losing the game.  Sure didn't seem that he did anything that would result in him not starting next week.  Hopefully, he'll show some progress next week.  It is not like a light switch and there were things in the game last night from which he can gain significant learning.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "Costello did not contribute meaningfully to losing the game".  If what you mean is "we could have won the game with Costello's performance", then I agree.  On the other hand, if you mean "Even better performance at the QB position would not have won the game" then I disagree.  During the game thread, (midway through the game) I went through his incomplete passes.  He had one throw batted at the line of scrimmage.  One throw where it was almost an interception and JJAW had to play DB.  A couple others that were inaccurate (for example, the one that went under Trent Irwin or the one low and behind our tight end).  More accuracy on his throws an I suspect we would have scored more.  There were, of course, at least two incompletions where there was substantial pass interference with the receiver that wasn't called.  He also had a few nice throws, and his awareness on the fumble and scramble for a TD was one of two offensive scores on the day.  I think the biggest question mark, and I am not sure if he was coached to do this or just read poorly, was not keeping the ball on a few of the read options (it is hard to say whether the play call was a read option or simply an inside handoff to Love).  The keeper was open all day, and if he had the option, he should have kept it.  That would have gotten us a bunch of yardage for one, and it would have forced WSU to make an adjustment and not constantly crash Love, which may have opened up the running game.  But again, hard to know if that was on Costello or on the coaches.

The bottom line is that on a day where we lost by 3 points, it might not have taken a lot of better individual performances or different play calls to win.

BC