[Mudhead]

It looks to me like it’s time to declare the PAC 12 the best Women’s Basketball conference in the land. Stanford beat the best Big 12 at home and one of the best SEC on the road. Oregon took down the best SEC at home and convincingly .  Stanford, by the way, was missing a starter for both games as well as the point guard for the last two years.   Now if. Cal could beat....

[Mudhead]

It looks to me like it’s time to declare the PAC 12 the best Women’s Basketball conference in the land. Stanford beat the best Big 12 at home and one of the best SEC on the road. Oregon took down the best SEC at home and convincingly .  Stanford, by the way, was missing a starter for both games as well as the point guard for the last two years.   Now if. Cal could beat....

[2006alum]

Funny the difference a week (or two) makes. About 10 days ago we were reeling from an explicable loss at Gonzaga and Oregon was recovering from a thumping by Michigan State. In terms of top to bottom conference strength, I'd say you're right - and Massey agrees. The only caveats I'd say here are that we got two of three at home (Oregon over MSU and us over Baylor), and one our one road win, Tennessee, I feel like is perennially overrated in the Holly era, and has never really returned to being a "top" team. If anything, what's surprised me so far this season is that UConn and Notre Dame really seem to be a solid tier better than everyone else - again. I've yet to see a team that looks like it would take down UConn in March, but then again, it's December!

[2006alum]

Funny the difference a week (or two) makes. About 10 days ago we were reeling from an explicable loss at Gonzaga and Oregon was recovering from a thumping by Michigan State. In terms of top to bottom conference strength, I'd say you're right - and Massey agrees. The only caveats I'd say here are that we got two of three at home (Oregon over MSU and us over Baylor), and one our one road win, Tennessee, I feel like is perennially overrated in the Holly era, and has never really returned to being a "top" team. If anything, what's surprised me so far this season is that UConn and Notre Dame really seem to be a solid tier better than everyone else - again. I've yet to see a team that looks like it would take down UConn in March, but then again, it's December!

[mbdude]

It looks to me like it’s time to declare the PAC 12 the best Women’s Basketball conference in the land. Stanford beat the best Big 12 at home and one of the best SEC on the road. Oregon took down the best SEC at home and convincingly .  Stanford, by the way, was missing a starter for both games as well as the point guard for the last two years.   Now if. Cal could beat....

USC taking on Texas A&M today

[mbdude]

It looks to me like it’s time to declare the PAC 12 the best Women’s Basketball conference in the land. Stanford beat the best Big 12 at home and one of the best SEC on the road. Oregon took down the best SEC at home and convincingly .  Stanford, by the way, was missing a starter for both games as well as the point guard for the last two years.   Now if. Cal could beat....

USC taking on Texas A&M today

[Mudhead]

[quote="2006alum" pid='238895' dateline='1545244489']
Funny the difference a week (or two) makes. About 10 days ago we were reeling from an explicable loss at Gonzaga and Oregon was recovering from a thumping by Michigan State. In terms of top to bottom conference strength, I'd say you're right - and Massey agrees. The only caveats I'd say here are that we got two of three at home (Oregon over MSU and us over Baylor), and one our one road win, Tennessee, I feel like is perennially overrated in the Holly era, and has never really returned to being a "top" team. If anything, what's surprised me so far this season is that UConn and Notre Dame really seem to be a solid tier better than everyone else - again. I've yet to see a team that looks like it would take down UConn in March, but then again, it's December!
[/quote

Very fair points and I confess I’m hoping as much as betting,.. I am struck by the fact that top nine teams in conference are 78-8 .  Granted , that says nothing about opposition but I suspect this is far superior to last years. When you add in every one you wind up with a 94-23 record, assuming by some miracle I added correctly.  That suggests a pretty deep conference to me.  Dare I root for Cal?

[Mudhead]

[quote="2006alum" pid='238895' dateline='1545244489']
Funny the difference a week (or two) makes. About 10 days ago we were reeling from an explicable loss at Gonzaga and Oregon was recovering from a thumping by Michigan State. In terms of top to bottom conference strength, I'd say you're right - and Massey agrees. The only caveats I'd say here are that we got two of three at home (Oregon over MSU and us over Baylor), and one our one road win, Tennessee, I feel like is perennially overrated in the Holly era, and has never really returned to being a "top" team. If anything, what's surprised me so far this season is that UConn and Notre Dame really seem to be a solid tier better than everyone else - again. I've yet to see a team that looks like it would take down UConn in March, but then again, it's December!
[/quote

Very fair points and I confess I’m hoping as much as betting,.. I am struck by the fact that top nine teams in conference are 78-8 .  Granted , that says nothing about opposition but I suspect this is far superior to last years. When you add in every one you wind up with a 94-23 record, assuming by some miracle I added correctly.  That suggests a pretty deep conference to me.  Dare I root for Cal?

[81alum]

Well, whatever else you can say about conferences in WBB, there is one thing that is certain:  the SEC is not the top league.

[81alum]

Well, whatever else you can say about conferences in WBB, there is one thing that is certain:  the SEC is not the top league.

[crackpot]

UConn looked pretty terrible in its game against Oklahoma tonight. And in the end, Oklahoma looked terrible-er. Couldn't believe UConn was the same team I saw whup ND.

[crackpot]

UConn looked pretty terrible in its game against Oklahoma tonight. And in the end, Oklahoma looked terrible-er. Couldn't believe UConn was the same team I saw whup ND.

[d4cohn]

5 Pac-12 teams in Top 17 of most recent AP poll. Seems like Pac-12, Big 10, SEC and ACC all have reasonable arguments for why they are top WBB conference in the country.

[d4cohn]

5 Pac-12 teams in Top 17 of most recent AP poll. Seems like Pac-12, Big 10, SEC and ACC all have reasonable arguments for why they are top WBB conference in the country.

[CompSci87]

"Best conference" is such an unclear concept that I've gotten really tired of discussions about it.

[CompSci87]

"Best conference" is such an unclear concept that I've gotten really tired of discussions about it.

[mbdude]

USC lost to A&M 71-51 . The Moore sisters and Mazyck were a combined 6 of 33 fga. watched the 1st half - very ugly.

[mbdude]

USC lost to A&M 71-51 . The Moore sisters and Mazyck were a combined 6 of 33 fga. watched the 1st half - very ugly.

[Mudhead]

"Best conference" is such an unclear concept that I've gotten really tired of discussions about it.

Still, you read it and take the time to post to a thread about it.  Look forward to reaction when you are enthusiastic about something.

[Mudhead]

"Best conference" is such an unclear concept that I've gotten really tired of discussions about it.

Still, you read it and take the time to post to a thread about it.  Look forward to reaction when you are enthusiastic about something.

[M T]

Whether one wants to speak of "best", I'm not sure.  I think "toughest" or "deepest" might be appropriate.
I think the wins over tough teams in preseason by the conference pretty much set the scale for how the conference's intra-league battles help/hurt the teams' RPI.   The RPI, in the end, will have some influence on rankings and on seeding in the NCAA tourney, and that makes a difference.

Right now, the Dec 19th NCAA RPI has
  PAC-12 teams (95-24)  4(#7 Ore 9-1), 5 (#8 Sta 8-1), 6 (#14  Cal 9-0), 24(#17 ASU 8-2), 29(UCLA 6-5), 32(Col 9-1),  56 (#RV USC 9-1), 62 (Wa 7-4), 91(#11 OrSt 8-2), 94(#RV Utah 9-0), 104(Az 9-1), 167 (WaSt 4-6)
  ACC (127-36)   1(#2 ND 9-1), 3 (#10 NC St 11-0), 11 (#3 Louisville 11-0), 13 (#15 Syracuse 9-2), 18 (#RV Fl St 10-1), 25(#24 Miami 9-2), 31 (#RV Va Tech 10-0), 33 (NC 8-4), 41 (Duke 6-3), 66 (Wake Forest 8-4), 72 (GaTech 8-2), 100 (Clemsen 8-4), 115 (Pitt 7-5), 117 (Bos Col 9-2), 161 (Va 4-6), 
  Big 12  at 7, 12, 60, 61, 63, 87, 110, 166, 189, 229
  Big Ten at 8, 15, 26, 36, 44, 53, 67, 77, 81, 101, 112, 124, 127, 145
  SEC at 16, 17, 19, 34, 38, 49, 55, 78, 85, 106, 141, 170, 185, 240


While the PAC-12 has a slightly better Win-Loss record (79.8%) than the ACC (77.9%), clearly the RPI rankings favor the ACC.
(Aligning the ACC vs PAC-12 RPI rankings:  1v4, 3v5, 11v6,  13v24, 18v29, 25v32, 31v56, ...)
Frustratingly for me, the ACC has 6 of 15 teams with more than 2 losses.  The PAC-12 has 2 of 12.  So despite having fewer teams, the PAC-12  has more teams (10 vs 9) that have no worse record than 80% wins.  There will be more tough games in the PAC-12 than the ACC.


Note the terrible #91 RPI ranking for #11 Oregon State who lost to ND and Texas A&M, though they beat So Carolina and thumped St. Mary's.  Then, after these particular RPIs were out, they beat Duke  (at RealTimeRPI, that made them rise 36 places).

But even if Oregon State were to be where it should be, it looks like ACC is still leading in RPI.
So, the more the ACC plays among themselves, their RPI will rise more than the PAC-12.   But, likewise, the PAC-12 will benefit more than the remaining conferences.


Gads, I might cheer for Cal over UConn.  UConn has looked beatable.  But Cal had to go to overtime to beat St. Mary's.  I don't know....

But first, I want Stanford to do well against Buffalo.  Go Card!

[M T]

Whether one wants to speak of "best", I'm not sure.  I think "toughest" or "deepest" might be appropriate.
I think the wins over tough teams in preseason by the conference pretty much set the scale for how the conference's intra-league battles help/hurt the teams' RPI.   The RPI, in the end, will have some influence on rankings and on seeding in the NCAA tourney, and that makes a difference.

Right now, the Dec 19th NCAA RPI has
  PAC-12 teams (95-24)  4(#7 Ore 9-1), 5 (#8 Sta 8-1), 6 (#14  Cal 9-0), 24(#17 ASU 8-2), 29(UCLA 6-5), 32(Col 9-1),  56 (#RV USC 9-1), 62 (Wa 7-4), 91(#11 OrSt 8-2), 94(#RV Utah 9-0), 104(Az 9-1), 167 (WaSt 4-6)
  ACC (127-36)   1(#2 ND 9-1), 3 (#10 NC St 11-0), 11 (#3 Louisville 11-0), 13 (#15 Syracuse 9-2), 18 (#RV Fl St 10-1), 25(#24 Miami 9-2), 31 (#RV Va Tech 10-0), 33 (NC 8-4), 41 (Duke 6-3), 66 (Wake Forest 8-4), 72 (GaTech 8-2), 100 (Clemsen 8-4), 115 (Pitt 7-5), 117 (Bos Col 9-2), 161 (Va 4-6), 
  Big 12  at 7, 12, 60, 61, 63, 87, 110, 166, 189, 229
  Big Ten at 8, 15, 26, 36, 44, 53, 67, 77, 81, 101, 112, 124, 127, 145
  SEC at 16, 17, 19, 34, 38, 49, 55, 78, 85, 106, 141, 170, 185, 240


While the PAC-12 has a slightly better Win-Loss record (79.8%) than the ACC (77.9%), clearly the RPI rankings favor the ACC.
(Aligning the ACC vs PAC-12 RPI rankings:  1v4, 3v5, 11v6,  13v24, 18v29, 25v32, 31v56, ...)
Frustratingly for me, the ACC has 6 of 15 teams with more than 2 losses.  The PAC-12 has 2 of 12.  So despite having fewer teams, the PAC-12  has more teams (10 vs 9) that have no worse record than 80% wins.  There will be more tough games in the PAC-12 than the ACC.


Note the terrible #91 RPI ranking for #11 Oregon State who lost to ND and Texas A&M, though they beat So Carolina and thumped St. Mary's.  Then, after these particular RPIs were out, they beat Duke  (at RealTimeRPI, that made them rise 36 places).

But even if Oregon State were to be where it should be, it looks like ACC is still leading in RPI.
So, the more the ACC plays among themselves, their RPI will rise more than the PAC-12.   But, likewise, the PAC-12 will benefit more than the remaining conferences.


Gads, I might cheer for Cal over UConn.  UConn has looked beatable.  But Cal had to go to overtime to beat St. Mary's.  I don't know....

But first, I want Stanford to do well against Buffalo.  Go Card!

[Mudhead]

Whether one wants to speak of "best", I'm not sure.  I think "toughest" or "deepest" might be appropriate.
I think the wins over tough teams in preseason by the conference pretty much set the scale for how the conference's intra-league battles help/hurt the teams' RPI.   The RPI, in the end, will have some influence on rankings and on seeding in the NCAA tourney, and that makes a difference.

Right now, the Dec 19th NCAA RPI has
  PAC-12 teams (95-24)  4(#7 Ore 9-1), 5 (#8 Sta 8-1), 6 (#14  Cal 9-0), 24(#17 ASU 8-2), 29(UCLA 6-5), 32(Col 9-1),  56 (#RV USC 9-1), 62 (Wa 7-4), 91(#11 OrSt 8-2), 94(#RV Utah 9-0), 104(Az 9-1), 167 (WaSt 4-6)
  ACC (127-36)   1(#2 ND 9-1), 3 (#10 NC St 11-0), 11 (#3 Louisville 11-0), 13 (#15 Syracuse 9-2), 18 (#RV Fl St 10-1), 25(#24 Miami 9-2), 31 (#RV Va Tech 10-0), 33 (NC 8-4), 41 (Duke 6-3), 66 (Wake Forest 8-4), 72 (GaTech 8-2), 100 (Clemsen 8-4), 115 (Pitt 7-5), 117 (Bos Col 9-2), 161 (Va 4-6), 
  Big 12  at 7, 12, 60, 61, 63, 87, 110, 166, 189, 229
  Big Ten at 8, 15, 26, 36, 44, 53, 67, 77, 81, 101, 112, 124, 127, 145
  SEC at 16, 17, 19, 34, 38, 49, 55, 78, 85, 106, 141, 170, 185, 240


While the PAC-12 has a slightly better Win-Loss record (79.8%) than the ACC (77.9%), clearly the RPI rankings favor the ACC.
(Aligning the ACC vs PAC-12 RPI rankings:  1v4, 3v5, 11v6,  13v24, 18v29, 25v32, 31v56, ...)
Frustratingly for me, the ACC has 6 of 15 teams with more than 2 losses.  The PAC-12 has 2 of 12.  So despite having fewer teams, the PAC-12  has more teams (10 vs 9) that have no worse record than 80% wins.  There will be more tough games in the PAC-12 than the ACC.


Note the terrible #91 RPI ranking for #11 Oregon State who lost to ND and Texas A&M, though they beat So Carolina and thumped St. Mary's.  Then, after these particular RPIs were out, they beat Duke  (at RealTimeRPI, that made them rise 36 places).

But even if Oregon State were to be where it should be, it looks like ACC is still leading in RPI.
So, the more the ACC plays among themselves, their RPI will rise more than the PAC-12.   But, likewise, the PAC-12 will benefit more than the remaining conferences.


Gads, I might cheer for Cal over UConn.  UConn has looked beatable.  But Cal had to go to overtime to beat St. Mary's.  I don't know....

But first, I want Stanford to do well against Buffalo.  Go Card!

Outstanding analysis. Also buy into your adjectives re “tougher” and “deeper”. As you point out, this is all about how many teams PAC-12 gets in tourney and how they are seeded.  That in turn is dependent upon how much credit each team gets for conference wins.  FYI, seeding affects a placement and the only regional within half a continent is Portland. If you don’t go there , you “hope” for Chicago because otherwise it’s all the way across the country. 

And so, regretfully, I must root fo Cal against UCONN.  This post documents my reasoning as I know I will need to explain my sin whenever I stand before the pearly gates. Thanks again MT

[Mudhead]

Whether one wants to speak of "best", I'm not sure.  I think "toughest" or "deepest" might be appropriate.
I think the wins over tough teams in preseason by the conference pretty much set the scale for how the conference's intra-league battles help/hurt the teams' RPI.   The RPI, in the end, will have some influence on rankings and on seeding in the NCAA tourney, and that makes a difference.

Right now, the Dec 19th NCAA RPI has
  PAC-12 teams (95-24)  4(#7 Ore 9-1), 5 (#8 Sta 8-1), 6 (#14  Cal 9-0), 24(#17 ASU 8-2), 29(UCLA 6-5), 32(Col 9-1),  56 (#RV USC 9-1), 62 (Wa 7-4), 91(#11 OrSt 8-2), 94(#RV Utah 9-0), 104(Az 9-1), 167 (WaSt 4-6)
  ACC (127-36)   1(#2 ND 9-1), 3 (#10 NC St 11-0), 11 (#3 Louisville 11-0), 13 (#15 Syracuse 9-2), 18 (#RV Fl St 10-1), 25(#24 Miami 9-2), 31 (#RV Va Tech 10-0), 33 (NC 8-4), 41 (Duke 6-3), 66 (Wake Forest 8-4), 72 (GaTech 8-2), 100 (Clemsen 8-4), 115 (Pitt 7-5), 117 (Bos Col 9-2), 161 (Va 4-6), 
  Big 12  at 7, 12, 60, 61, 63, 87, 110, 166, 189, 229
  Big Ten at 8, 15, 26, 36, 44, 53, 67, 77, 81, 101, 112, 124, 127, 145
  SEC at 16, 17, 19, 34, 38, 49, 55, 78, 85, 106, 141, 170, 185, 240


While the PAC-12 has a slightly better Win-Loss record (79.8%) than the ACC (77.9%), clearly the RPI rankings favor the ACC.
(Aligning the ACC vs PAC-12 RPI rankings:  1v4, 3v5, 11v6,  13v24, 18v29, 25v32, 31v56, ...)
Frustratingly for me, the ACC has 6 of 15 teams with more than 2 losses.  The PAC-12 has 2 of 12.  So despite having fewer teams, the PAC-12  has more teams (10 vs 9) that have no worse record than 80% wins.  There will be more tough games in the PAC-12 than the ACC.


Note the terrible #91 RPI ranking for #11 Oregon State who lost to ND and Texas A&M, though they beat So Carolina and thumped St. Mary's.  Then, after these particular RPIs were out, they beat Duke  (at RealTimeRPI, that made them rise 36 places).

But even if Oregon State were to be where it should be, it looks like ACC is still leading in RPI.
So, the more the ACC plays among themselves, their RPI will rise more than the PAC-12.   But, likewise, the PAC-12 will benefit more than the remaining conferences.


Gads, I might cheer for Cal over UConn.  UConn has looked beatable.  But Cal had to go to overtime to beat St. Mary's.  I don't know....

But first, I want Stanford to do well against Buffalo.  Go Card!

Outstanding analysis. Also buy into your adjectives re “tougher” and “deeper”. As you point out, this is all about how many teams PAC-12 gets in tourney and how they are seeded.  That in turn is dependent upon how much credit each team gets for conference wins.  FYI, seeding affects a placement and the only regional within half a continent is Portland. If you don’t go there , you “hope” for Chicago because otherwise it’s all the way across the country. 

And so, regretfully, I must root fo Cal against UCONN.  This post documents my reasoning as I know I will need to explain my sin whenever I stand before the pearly gates. Thanks again MT