[Austroturf]

Herbig's trajectory has been disappointing.  When Shaw burned his red-shirt in 2016, Herbig immediately made a contribution.  He was all-conference in his sophomore year, then fell to second team in his junior year after an injury-riddled season.  His decision to enter the draft now appears to have been unwise, unless he can work some magic as an undrafted free agent.

---

Stanford lands five players in the NFL draft:

JJ Arcega Whiteside in the 2nd round,
Bobby Okereke in the 3rd round,
Bryce Love in the 4th round,
Jake Bailey in the 5th round,
Kaden Smith in the 6th round.

No Cardinal was selected in the 1st or the 7th rounds.  Herbig's name was repeatedly listed as best fit, but his number never came up.

[Austroturf]

Herbig's trajectory has been disappointing.  When Shaw burned his red-shirt in 2016, Herbig immediately made a contribution.  He was all-conference in his sophomore year, then fell to second team in his junior year after an injury-riddled season.  His decision to enter the draft now appears to have been unwise, unless he can work some magic as an undrafted free agent.

---

Stanford lands five players in the NFL draft:

JJ Arcega Whiteside in the 2nd round,
Bobby Okereke in the 3rd round,
Bryce Love in the 4th round,
Jake Bailey in the 5th round,
Kaden Smith in the 6th round.

No Cardinal was selected in the 1st or the 7th rounds.  Herbig's name was repeatedly listed as best fit, but his number never came up.

[Embo]

Herbig's trajectory has been disappointing.  When Shaw burned his red-shirt in 2016, Herbig immediately made a contribution.  He was all-conference in his sophomore year, then fell to second team in his junior year after an injury-riddled season.  His decision to enter the draft now appears to have been unwise, unless he can work some magic as an undrafted free agent.

---

Stanford lands five players in the NFL draft:

JJ Arcega Whiteside in the 2nd round,
Bobby Okereke in the 3rd round,
Bryce Love in the 4th round,
Jake Bailey in the 5th round,
Kaden Smith in the 6th round.

No Cardinal was selected in the 1st or the 7th rounds.  Herbig's name was repeatedly listed as best fit, but his number never came up.

I have to wonder who gave Nate the advice to come out.  It probably wasn't someone who had objectivity.  I specifically read these two "oh-oh" articles in the Chronicle, both of which had opinions of Herbig from two different scouts. The first:

ND game shows Stanford O-Line has miles to go

When I originally read this in October, I ratcheted down my expectations for the rest of the season greatly.  It was a brutal, yet frank critique by a scout who wanted to remain anonymous.

The second one came after the end of the regular season.  It's even more brutal, this time by a scout who identifies himself:

Scout wonders if he's ready

[Embo]

Herbig's trajectory has been disappointing.  When Shaw burned his red-shirt in 2016, Herbig immediately made a contribution.  He was all-conference in his sophomore year, then fell to second team in his junior year after an injury-riddled season.  His decision to enter the draft now appears to have been unwise, unless he can work some magic as an undrafted free agent.

---

Stanford lands five players in the NFL draft:

JJ Arcega Whiteside in the 2nd round,
Bobby Okereke in the 3rd round,
Bryce Love in the 4th round,
Jake Bailey in the 5th round,
Kaden Smith in the 6th round.

No Cardinal was selected in the 1st or the 7th rounds.  Herbig's name was repeatedly listed as best fit, but his number never came up.

I have to wonder who gave Nate the advice to come out.  It probably wasn't someone who had objectivity.  I specifically read these two "oh-oh" articles in the Chronicle, both of which had opinions of Herbig from two different scouts. The first:

ND game shows Stanford O-Line has miles to go

When I originally read this in October, I ratcheted down my expectations for the rest of the season greatly.  It was a brutal, yet frank critique by a scout who wanted to remain anonymous.

The second one came after the end of the regular season.  It's even more brutal, this time by a scout who identifies himself:

Scout wonders if he's ready

[Phogge]

Most scouts aren’t dummies. As in most things the grapevine speaks and those in the know listen.

Holder’s injury was devestating to his career. Perhaps he can make it to a camp and impress somebody enough to be asked to return in 2020. He’s going to have to hustle and play on as many special teams as he can.

[Phogge]

Most scouts aren’t dummies. As in most things the grapevine speaks and those in the know listen.

Holder’s injury was devestating to his career. Perhaps he can make it to a camp and impress somebody enough to be asked to return in 2020. He’s going to have to hustle and play on as many special teams as he can.

[donkey687]

What about Irwin? That guy has been a pro-route runner since he arrived on the Farm. He was money on third and 5.  I am not sure about Herbig or Holder, but I think Irwin will have a solid NFL career.

[donkey687]

What about Irwin? That guy has been a pro-route runner since he arrived on the Farm. He was money on third and 5.  I am not sure about Herbig or Holder, but I think Irwin will have a solid NFL career.

[BostonCard]

Not sure that Herbig would have been playing football at Stanford even if he hadn’t declared for the draft.

BC

[BostonCard]

Not sure that Herbig would have been playing football at Stanford even if he hadn’t declared for the draft.

BC

[Treefence]

What about Irwin? That guy has been a pro-route runner since he arrived on the Farm. He was money on third and 5.  I am not sure about Herbig or Holder, but I think Irwin will have a solid NFL career.

It’s tough when the guy didn’t even go over 700 yards in a season for his whole career in college football and had 5 total touchdowns all 4 years. He could make an NFL team but he wasn’t worth a draft pick.

[Treefence]

What about Irwin? That guy has been a pro-route runner since he arrived on the Farm. He was money on third and 5.  I am not sure about Herbig or Holder, but I think Irwin will have a solid NFL career.

It’s tough when the guy didn’t even go over 700 yards in a season for his whole career in college football and had 5 total touchdowns all 4 years. He could make an NFL team but he wasn’t worth a draft pick.

[winflop]

Not sure that Herbig would have been playing football at Stanford even if he hadn’t declared for the draft.

BC

Yeah I'd heard some rumblings a couple months back about this. Anyone able to elaborate any further?

[winflop]

Not sure that Herbig would have been playing football at Stanford even if he hadn’t declared for the draft.

BC

Yeah I'd heard some rumblings a couple months back about this. Anyone able to elaborate any further?

[SamuelMcF]

Not sure that Herbig would have been playing football at Stanford even if he hadn’t declared for the draft.

BC

Yeah I'd heard some rumblings a couple months back about this. Anyone able to elaborate any further?

Paywall, but I can say that his decision to declare was out of (perceived) necessity. By the time he found out there was no necessity, it was too late.

[SamuelMcF]

Not sure that Herbig would have been playing football at Stanford even if he hadn’t declared for the draft.

BC

Yeah I'd heard some rumblings a couple months back about this. Anyone able to elaborate any further?

Paywall, but I can say that his decision to declare was out of (perceived) necessity. By the time he found out there was no necessity, it was too late.

[winflop]

Not sure that Herbig would have been playing football at Stanford even if he hadn’t declared for the draft.

BC

Yeah I'd heard some rumblings a couple months back about this. Anyone able to elaborate any further?

Paywall, but I can say that his decision to declare was out of (perceived) necessity. By the time he found out there was no necessity, it was too late.

This is why I like the NBA's draft entry rules much better. You can dip your toe in the water and see where you might end up before you have to commit. Herbig would be back on the Farm had this happened - likely Smith as well since his stock dropped like a rock after the combine.

Happy to see some UDFA's! Although haven't seen where Herbig has signed one yet.

[winflop]

Not sure that Herbig would have been playing football at Stanford even if he hadn’t declared for the draft.

BC

Yeah I'd heard some rumblings a couple months back about this. Anyone able to elaborate any further?

Paywall, but I can say that his decision to declare was out of (perceived) necessity. By the time he found out there was no necessity, it was too late.

This is why I like the NBA's draft entry rules much better. You can dip your toe in the water and see where you might end up before you have to commit. Herbig would be back on the Farm had this happened - likely Smith as well since his stock dropped like a rock after the combine.

Happy to see some UDFA's! Although haven't seen where Herbig has signed one yet.

[Redrum]

[They can’t anchor. I feel bad for (quarterback K.J. Costello). He couldn’t step up; it just was not pretty. They’re technique-poor. Their footwork is very inconsistent. I thought a lot of the guys have balance problems. You can’t be on the ground; Herbig was on the ground a lot. The two tackles over-set, so the defensive player could come underneath them and get a clean shot at the quarterback.”

Notre Dame was getting loads of pressure without blitzing, he noted. “When you can do that with a four-man pass rush, you’re dropping seven into coverage. Costello didn’t have a chance to find any holes. You tell me five guys can’t block four? That’s how bad that offensive line is.”

This.  Gawd. That Notre Dame game. Gawd.

[Redrum]

[They can’t anchor. I feel bad for (quarterback K.J. Costello). He couldn’t step up; it just was not pretty. They’re technique-poor. Their footwork is very inconsistent. I thought a lot of the guys have balance problems. You can’t be on the ground; Herbig was on the ground a lot. The two tackles over-set, so the defensive player could come underneath them and get a clean shot at the quarterback.”

Notre Dame was getting loads of pressure without blitzing, he noted. “When you can do that with a four-man pass rush, you’re dropping seven into coverage. Costello didn’t have a chance to find any holes. You tell me five guys can’t block four? That’s how bad that offensive line is.”

This.  Gawd. That Notre Dame game. Gawd.

[Austroturf]

Not sure that Herbig would have been playing football at Stanford even if he hadn’t declared for the draft.

BC

Yeah I'd heard some rumblings a couple months back about this. Anyone able to elaborate any further?

Paywall, but I can say that his decision to declare was out of (perceived) necessity. By the time he found out there was no necessity, it was too late.

What would the perceived necessity have been?  He had a year of eligibility left.  Did he have no faith that he could tack on an injury-free, solid senior season?

---

Herbig's trajectory has been disappointing.  When Shaw burned his red-shirt in 2016, Herbig immediately made a contribution.  He was all-conference in his sophomore year, then fell to second team in his junior year after an injury-riddled season.  His decision to enter the draft now appears to have been unwise, unless he can work some magic as an undrafted free agent.

---

Stanford lands five players in the NFL draft:

JJ Arcega Whiteside in the 2nd round,
Bobby Okereke in the 3rd round,
Bryce Love in the 4th round,
Jake Bailey in the 5th round,
Kaden Smith in the 6th round.

No Cardinal was selected in the 1st or the 7th rounds.  Herbig's name was repeatedly listed as best fit, but his number never came up.

I have to wonder who gave Nate the advice to come out.  It probably wasn't someone who had objectivity.  I specifically read these two "oh-oh" articles in the Chronicle, both of which had opinions of Herbig from two different scouts. The first:

ND game shows Stanford O-Line has miles to go

When I originally read this in October, I ratcheted down my expectations for the rest of the season greatly.  It was a brutal, yet frank critique by a scout who wanted to remain anonymous.

The second one came after the end of the regular season.  It's even more brutal, this time by a scout who identifies himself:

Scout wonders if he's ready

Obviously, this begs the question: how much did our O-line suffer by Bloomgren's departure?  I know this is old territory, but with essentially the same O-line as in 2017, it's shocking to see such deterioration (outlined in the Chronicle about the Notre Dame game).  Carberry has enough talent in 2019 to right the ship; but if we have the same struggles again, then Shaw will have to take action.

[Austroturf]

Not sure that Herbig would have been playing football at Stanford even if he hadn’t declared for the draft.

BC

Yeah I'd heard some rumblings a couple months back about this. Anyone able to elaborate any further?

Paywall, but I can say that his decision to declare was out of (perceived) necessity. By the time he found out there was no necessity, it was too late.

What would the perceived necessity have been?  He had a year of eligibility left.  Did he have no faith that he could tack on an injury-free, solid senior season?

---

Herbig's trajectory has been disappointing.  When Shaw burned his red-shirt in 2016, Herbig immediately made a contribution.  He was all-conference in his sophomore year, then fell to second team in his junior year after an injury-riddled season.  His decision to enter the draft now appears to have been unwise, unless he can work some magic as an undrafted free agent.

---

Stanford lands five players in the NFL draft:

JJ Arcega Whiteside in the 2nd round,
Bobby Okereke in the 3rd round,
Bryce Love in the 4th round,
Jake Bailey in the 5th round,
Kaden Smith in the 6th round.

No Cardinal was selected in the 1st or the 7th rounds.  Herbig's name was repeatedly listed as best fit, but his number never came up.

I have to wonder who gave Nate the advice to come out.  It probably wasn't someone who had objectivity.  I specifically read these two "oh-oh" articles in the Chronicle, both of which had opinions of Herbig from two different scouts. The first:

ND game shows Stanford O-Line has miles to go

When I originally read this in October, I ratcheted down my expectations for the rest of the season greatly.  It was a brutal, yet frank critique by a scout who wanted to remain anonymous.

The second one came after the end of the regular season.  It's even more brutal, this time by a scout who identifies himself:

Scout wonders if he's ready

Obviously, this begs the question: how much did our O-line suffer by Bloomgren's departure?  I know this is old territory, but with essentially the same O-line as in 2017, it's shocking to see such deterioration (outlined in the Chronicle about the Notre Dame game).  Carberry has enough talent in 2019 to right the ship; but if we have the same struggles again, then Shaw will have to take action.

[OutsiderFan]

Why should Shaw wait another year to take action if Carberry isn’t doing the job?

[OutsiderFan]

Why should Shaw wait another year to take action if Carberry isn’t doing the job?

[Austroturf]

Why should Shaw wait another year to take action if Carberry isn’t doing the job?

If Shaw had wanted to make a change, he would have done so already.  So my assumption is that Carberry is on board for another season, whether or not he is an effective coach.  I personally think the drop off from 2017 to 2018 was unacceptable and should have called for drastic action; but "injuries" were normally cited as the main reason for the performance decline, and Carberry was given an implicit (maybe even explicit) vote of confidence by Shaw and Pritchard.  To my knowledge, Shaw has never fired anybody from his coaching staff for performance reasons.  Let's see.

[Austroturf]

Why should Shaw wait another year to take action if Carberry isn’t doing the job?

If Shaw had wanted to make a change, he would have done so already.  So my assumption is that Carberry is on board for another season, whether or not he is an effective coach.  I personally think the drop off from 2017 to 2018 was unacceptable and should have called for drastic action; but "injuries" were normally cited as the main reason for the performance decline, and Carberry was given an implicit (maybe even explicit) vote of confidence by Shaw and Pritchard.  To my knowledge, Shaw has never fired anybody from his coaching staff for performance reasons.  Let's see.

[SamuelMcF]

Not sure that Herbig would have been playing football at Stanford even if he hadn’t declared for the draft.

BC

Yeah I'd heard some rumblings a couple months back about this. Anyone able to elaborate any further?

Paywall, but I can say that his decision to declare was out of (perceived) necessity. By the time he found out there was no necessity, it was too late.

What would the perceived necessity have been?  He had a year of eligibility left.  Did he have no faith that he could tack on an injury-free, solid senior season?

Think the other part of student-athlete.

[SamuelMcF]

Not sure that Herbig would have been playing football at Stanford even if he hadn’t declared for the draft.

BC

Yeah I'd heard some rumblings a couple months back about this. Anyone able to elaborate any further?

Paywall, but I can say that his decision to declare was out of (perceived) necessity. By the time he found out there was no necessity, it was too late.

What would the perceived necessity have been?  He had a year of eligibility left.  Did he have no faith that he could tack on an injury-free, solid senior season?

Think the other part of student-athlete.

[BobK]

A big plus one for Samuel’s post.

[BobK]

A big plus one for Samuel’s post.

[Austroturf]

Not sure that Herbig would have been playing football at Stanford even if he hadn’t declared for the draft.

BC

Yeah I'd heard some rumblings a couple months back about this. Anyone able to elaborate any further?

Paywall, but I can say that his decision to declare was out of (perceived) necessity. By the time he found out there was no necessity, it was too late.

What would the perceived necessity have been?  He had a year of eligibility left.  Did he have no faith that he could tack on an injury-free, solid senior season?

Think the other part of student-athlete.

So if I read this comment correctly, Herbig was struggling academically.... ?

[Austroturf]

Not sure that Herbig would have been playing football at Stanford even if he hadn’t declared for the draft.

BC

Yeah I'd heard some rumblings a couple months back about this. Anyone able to elaborate any further?

Paywall, but I can say that his decision to declare was out of (perceived) necessity. By the time he found out there was no necessity, it was too late.

What would the perceived necessity have been?  He had a year of eligibility left.  Did he have no faith that he could tack on an injury-free, solid senior season?

Think the other part of student-athlete.

So if I read this comment correctly, Herbig was struggling academically.... ?

[BostonCard]

Remember that in the press conference leading up to the Sun Bowl, when Shaw announced that Herbog wouldn’t be playing, he went out of his way to say that it was not for injury reasons.

Read between the lines.

BC

[BostonCard]

Remember that in the press conference leading up to the Sun Bowl, when Shaw announced that Herbog wouldn’t be playing, he went out of his way to say that it was not for injury reasons.

Read between the lines.

BC

[Phogge]

Addition by subtraction. They will be better without him. I ISO the line a lot. Powell played better during his time in the lineup.

[Phogge]

Addition by subtraction. They will be better without him. I ISO the line a lot. Powell played better during his time in the lineup.

[Austroturf]

Remember that in the press conference leading up to the Sun Bowl, when Shaw announced that Herbog wouldn’t be playing, he went out of his way to say that it was not for injury reasons.

Read between the lines.

BC

Got it.

[Austroturf]

Remember that in the press conference leading up to the Sun Bowl, when Shaw announced that Herbog wouldn’t be playing, he went out of his way to say that it was not for injury reasons.

Read between the lines.

BC

Got it.

[2006alum]

Yeah I'd heard some rumblings a couple months back about this. Anyone able to elaborate any further?

Paywall, but I can say that his decision to declare was out of (perceived) necessity. By the time he found out there was no necessity, it was too late.

What would the perceived necessity have been?  He had a year of eligibility left.  Did he have no faith that he could tack on an injury-free, solid senior season?

Think the other part of student-athlete.

So if I read this comment correctly, Herbig was struggling academically.... ?

If this is true, I find it rather odd: Herbig was Pac-12 All-Academic honorable mention both as a sophomore in 2017 and as a junior in 2018, which was announced in December of 2018. Are all-academic honors for football so low that someone who's have trouble staying eligible can also get honorable mention?!

[2006alum]

Yeah I'd heard some rumblings a couple months back about this. Anyone able to elaborate any further?

Paywall, but I can say that his decision to declare was out of (perceived) necessity. By the time he found out there was no necessity, it was too late.

What would the perceived necessity have been?  He had a year of eligibility left.  Did he have no faith that he could tack on an injury-free, solid senior season?

Think the other part of student-athlete.

So if I read this comment correctly, Herbig was struggling academically.... ?

If this is true, I find it rather odd: Herbig was Pac-12 All-Academic honorable mention both as a sophomore in 2017 and as a junior in 2018, which was announced in December of 2018. Are all-academic honors for football so low that someone who's have trouble staying eligible can also get honorable mention?!