Blew national championship chance. But even worse, he took no responsibility in his post game presser. Shameful. Why I bet they even turtled
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lSeX1GsW8yw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lSeX1GsW8yw
Outside Topic OT: Paul Chryst has got to go
Blew national championship chance. But even worse, he took no responsibility in his post game presser. Shameful. Why I bet they even turtled
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lSeX1GsW8yw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lSeX1GsW8yw
10-19-2019, 02:35 PM
Actually, up by 2 and facing third and four at their own forty with 2:30 left, they didn’t hand the ball off to the best running back in college football. The pass was intercepted and Illinois went on to kick the winning field goal as time expired. Perhaps turtling bu giving it to Taylor and worst case making Illinois go down the entire field might have been the better call.
Hindsight, 20/20 and all.
BC
Hindsight, 20/20 and all.
BC
Actually, up by 2 and facing third and four at their own forty with 2:30 left, they didn’t hand the ball off to the best running back in college football. The pass was intercepted and Illinois went on to kick the winning field goal as time expired. Perhaps turtling bu giving it to Taylor and worst case making Illinois go down the entire field might have been the better call.
Hindsight, 20/20 and all.
BC
Hindsight, 20/20 and all.
BC
10-19-2019, 02:37 PM
(10-19-2019, 02:35 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Actually, up by 2 and facing third and four at their own forty with 2:30 left, they didn’t hand the ball off to the best running back in college football. The pass was intercepted and Illinois went on to kick the winning field goal as time expired. Perhaps turtling bu giving it to Taylor and worst case making Illinois go down the entire field might have been the better call.
Hindsight, 20/20 and all.
BC
Agree. That was a poor play-call. Plus, the Badgers fumbled on their prior possession and gave the Illini a short field to pull within 2. Their two possession lead (9 points) melted within minutes through two turnovers.
(10-19-2019, 02:35 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Actually, up by 2 and facing third and four at their own forty with 2:30 left, they didn’t hand the ball off to the best running back in college football. The pass was intercepted and Illinois went on to kick the winning field goal as time expired. Perhaps turtling bu giving it to Taylor and worst case making Illinois go down the entire field might have been the better call.
Hindsight, 20/20 and all.
BC
Agree. That was a poor play-call. Plus, the Badgers fumbled on their prior possession and gave the Illini a short field to pull within 2. Their two possession lead (9 points) melted within minutes through two turnovers.
10-19-2019, 03:33 PM
And he didn’t flagellate himself in his presser for that bonehead call? Shameful.
(10-19-2019, 02:35 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Actually, up by 2 and facing third and four at their own forty with 2:30 left, they didn’t hand the ball off to the best running back in college football. The pass was intercepted and Illinois went on to kick the winning field goal as time expired. Perhaps turtling bu giving it to Taylor and worst case making Illinois go down the entire field might have been the better call.
Hindsight, 20/20 and all.
BC
And he didn’t flagellate himself in his presser for that bonehead call? Shameful.
(10-19-2019, 02:35 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Actually, up by 2 and facing third and four at their own forty with 2:30 left, they didn’t hand the ball off to the best running back in college football. The pass was intercepted and Illinois went on to kick the winning field goal as time expired. Perhaps turtling bu giving it to Taylor and worst case making Illinois go down the entire field might have been the better call.
Hindsight, 20/20 and all.
BC
(10-19-2019, 03:33 PM)lex24 Wrote: And he didn’t flagellate himself in his presser for that bonehead call? Shameful.
(10-19-2019, 02:35 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Actually, up by 2 and facing third and four at their own forty with 2:30 left, they didn’t hand the ball off to the best running back in college football. The pass was intercepted and Illinois went on to kick the winning field goal as time expired. Perhaps turtling bu giving it to Taylor and worst case making Illinois go down the entire field might have been the better call.
Hindsight, 20/20 and all.
BC
get back to me when he doesn't do it after 3 or 4 losses.
Also there's a wide gap between self-flagellation and spending two minutes talking about all the plays your players missed without one mention of you or your staff.
(10-19-2019, 03:33 PM)lex24 Wrote: And he didn’t flagellate himself in his presser for that bonehead call? Shameful.
(10-19-2019, 02:35 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Actually, up by 2 and facing third and four at their own forty with 2:30 left, they didn’t hand the ball off to the best running back in college football. The pass was intercepted and Illinois went on to kick the winning field goal as time expired. Perhaps turtling bu giving it to Taylor and worst case making Illinois go down the entire field might have been the better call.
Hindsight, 20/20 and all.
BC
get back to me when he doesn't do it after 3 or 4 losses.
Also there's a wide gap between self-flagellation and spending two minutes talking about all the plays your players missed without one mention of you or your staff.
10-19-2019, 10:07 PM
(10-19-2019, 04:54 PM)winflop Wrote: Also there's a wide gap between self-flagellation and spending two minutes talking about all the plays your players missed without one mention of you or your staff.
To me, that tells me that Coach Shaw is way behind the curve -- and doesn't realize it. it's not his fault, it's the player's faults.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
(10-19-2019, 04:54 PM)winflop Wrote: Also there's a wide gap between self-flagellation and spending two minutes talking about all the plays your players missed without one mention of you or your staff.
To me, that tells me that Coach Shaw is way behind the curve -- and doesn't realize it. it's not his fault, it's the player's faults.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
10-20-2019, 02:17 PM
OK, this is a serious response to a somewhat tongue-in-cheek topic I find it interesting that many people on this board think it appropriate for coaches to take responsibility, at least partially, for any given loss. It is ALWAYS true that a team loses a football game because the players failed to play better than the opposition. This may happen because the players were not adequately coached, but the players are the ones who didn't win. The coaches responsibility is almost always more indirect and harder to quantify, even for those directly involved. I am sure there are instances where the coach looks at the game and feels responsible for the loss. This may be because the staff failed to anticipate the defensive strategy, or because the offensive game plan was crap, or something like that. In those cases, the coach should own up and say so. That is for sure. However, those cases are pretty rare.
The play Chryst called is in another category. I believe it was a rational, defensible call. He has the best running back in football. Illinois knows this. They are going to load up to stop him. Possibly, a pass will catch them totally by surprise and they won't defend it well (or at all). The QB won't throw it if it isn't wide open. If they get a first down, Illinois is toast. If they don't, they punt. Not a horrid call. Except the route was covered and the QB did throw it. There were already TWO defenders between the receiver and the QB, and one behind the receiver that possibly could have jumped the route. No way the QB should ever throw that ball. Chryst kept saying it was a "great interception, heck of a play". Well, in a way it was. The two defenders didn't run into each other competing for the ball. Chryst was attempting not to state the obvious. The QB totally screwed up by throwing the ball.
Many will say that Chryst should have run the ball. But the running back may fumble. See Oregon and Christobal (maybe its the name) in 2018. Maybe the QB should have taken a knee and then you punt. But the punt may get run back/blocked because of poor punt team play. Me, I would have run the ball, but that doesn't mean the other choices are necessarily bad. Good decision, bad outcome. Getting up there and saying "It is on me, I made a bad call." is crazy if in fact you don't believe you did. The team will know you aren't serious.
Where Chryst possibly should take himself to the woodshed is if he hadn't made it completely clear to the QB what the situation was. This could have come in previous coaching sessions or directly in this game. You shouldn't call that play unless you are sure your QB knows what to do.He may still make a mistake, as he did, but you should be able to say that he should have known better and mean it. Actually saying that, which Chryst didn't, would have been counter-productive. If he didn't coach that point adequately, he should apologize to the QB in private. Doing so in public would be interpreted as condescending.
Imagine the reaction if Shaw got up there and said "I screwed up. I should have recruited another QB after West because he sucks so bad that we got beat". While expressing responsibility, it is also throwing a particular guy under the bus. It also isn't accurate, as the OL was an even bigger issue. So, should Shaw say "We screwed up. We should have got better freshmen than we did."? Same problem. It throws a unit of the team under the bus, and would certainly be de-motivating to all involved. In this case, even if that is what the coach actually believes, he must not say it. If he says "We should have prepared the team better.", he may be absolutely right but nobody will take that general statement seriously.
As Shaw and others have pointed out, at the end of the day, it is ALWAYS true that the coach is responsible for the result. Saying so repeatedly is simply redundant. The good news is that in college, you can't fire the players, but you can fire the coach. The coach's failings are manifested in the player's play. If the coach points out a failing and attempts to take responsibility for it, it appears phony. He is really blaming the player. Thus, the coach is restricted to generalities, which aren't emotionally satisfying to the critics.
If I were to fault the coaches for anything in the UCLA game, it would be for not adequately preparing for max pressure and press man defense. It may be that they tried and it just didn't take, but that is where introspection is called for, IMHO. We will for sure see it again from Arizona.
The play Chryst called is in another category. I believe it was a rational, defensible call. He has the best running back in football. Illinois knows this. They are going to load up to stop him. Possibly, a pass will catch them totally by surprise and they won't defend it well (or at all). The QB won't throw it if it isn't wide open. If they get a first down, Illinois is toast. If they don't, they punt. Not a horrid call. Except the route was covered and the QB did throw it. There were already TWO defenders between the receiver and the QB, and one behind the receiver that possibly could have jumped the route. No way the QB should ever throw that ball. Chryst kept saying it was a "great interception, heck of a play". Well, in a way it was. The two defenders didn't run into each other competing for the ball. Chryst was attempting not to state the obvious. The QB totally screwed up by throwing the ball.
Many will say that Chryst should have run the ball. But the running back may fumble. See Oregon and Christobal (maybe its the name) in 2018. Maybe the QB should have taken a knee and then you punt. But the punt may get run back/blocked because of poor punt team play. Me, I would have run the ball, but that doesn't mean the other choices are necessarily bad. Good decision, bad outcome. Getting up there and saying "It is on me, I made a bad call." is crazy if in fact you don't believe you did. The team will know you aren't serious.
Where Chryst possibly should take himself to the woodshed is if he hadn't made it completely clear to the QB what the situation was. This could have come in previous coaching sessions or directly in this game. You shouldn't call that play unless you are sure your QB knows what to do.He may still make a mistake, as he did, but you should be able to say that he should have known better and mean it. Actually saying that, which Chryst didn't, would have been counter-productive. If he didn't coach that point adequately, he should apologize to the QB in private. Doing so in public would be interpreted as condescending.
Imagine the reaction if Shaw got up there and said "I screwed up. I should have recruited another QB after West because he sucks so bad that we got beat". While expressing responsibility, it is also throwing a particular guy under the bus. It also isn't accurate, as the OL was an even bigger issue. So, should Shaw say "We screwed up. We should have got better freshmen than we did."? Same problem. It throws a unit of the team under the bus, and would certainly be de-motivating to all involved. In this case, even if that is what the coach actually believes, he must not say it. If he says "We should have prepared the team better.", he may be absolutely right but nobody will take that general statement seriously.
As Shaw and others have pointed out, at the end of the day, it is ALWAYS true that the coach is responsible for the result. Saying so repeatedly is simply redundant. The good news is that in college, you can't fire the players, but you can fire the coach. The coach's failings are manifested in the player's play. If the coach points out a failing and attempts to take responsibility for it, it appears phony. He is really blaming the player. Thus, the coach is restricted to generalities, which aren't emotionally satisfying to the critics.
If I were to fault the coaches for anything in the UCLA game, it would be for not adequately preparing for max pressure and press man defense. It may be that they tried and it just didn't take, but that is where introspection is called for, IMHO. We will for sure see it again from Arizona.
OK, this is a serious response to a somewhat tongue-in-cheek topic I find it interesting that many people on this board think it appropriate for coaches to take responsibility, at least partially, for any given loss. It is ALWAYS true that a team loses a football game because the players failed to play better than the opposition. This may happen because the players were not adequately coached, but the players are the ones who didn't win. The coaches responsibility is almost always more indirect and harder to quantify, even for those directly involved. I am sure there are instances where the coach looks at the game and feels responsible for the loss. This may be because the staff failed to anticipate the defensive strategy, or because the offensive game plan was crap, or something like that. In those cases, the coach should own up and say so. That is for sure. However, those cases are pretty rare.
The play Chryst called is in another category. I believe it was a rational, defensible call. He has the best running back in football. Illinois knows this. They are going to load up to stop him. Possibly, a pass will catch them totally by surprise and they won't defend it well (or at all). The QB won't throw it if it isn't wide open. If they get a first down, Illinois is toast. If they don't, they punt. Not a horrid call. Except the route was covered and the QB did throw it. There were already TWO defenders between the receiver and the QB, and one behind the receiver that possibly could have jumped the route. No way the QB should ever throw that ball. Chryst kept saying it was a "great interception, heck of a play". Well, in a way it was. The two defenders didn't run into each other competing for the ball. Chryst was attempting not to state the obvious. The QB totally screwed up by throwing the ball.
Many will say that Chryst should have run the ball. But the running back may fumble. See Oregon and Christobal (maybe its the name) in 2018. Maybe the QB should have taken a knee and then you punt. But the punt may get run back/blocked because of poor punt team play. Me, I would have run the ball, but that doesn't mean the other choices are necessarily bad. Good decision, bad outcome. Getting up there and saying "It is on me, I made a bad call." is crazy if in fact you don't believe you did. The team will know you aren't serious.
Where Chryst possibly should take himself to the woodshed is if he hadn't made it completely clear to the QB what the situation was. This could have come in previous coaching sessions or directly in this game. You shouldn't call that play unless you are sure your QB knows what to do.He may still make a mistake, as he did, but you should be able to say that he should have known better and mean it. Actually saying that, which Chryst didn't, would have been counter-productive. If he didn't coach that point adequately, he should apologize to the QB in private. Doing so in public would be interpreted as condescending.
Imagine the reaction if Shaw got up there and said "I screwed up. I should have recruited another QB after West because he sucks so bad that we got beat". While expressing responsibility, it is also throwing a particular guy under the bus. It also isn't accurate, as the OL was an even bigger issue. So, should Shaw say "We screwed up. We should have got better freshmen than we did."? Same problem. It throws a unit of the team under the bus, and would certainly be de-motivating to all involved. In this case, even if that is what the coach actually believes, he must not say it. If he says "We should have prepared the team better.", he may be absolutely right but nobody will take that general statement seriously.
As Shaw and others have pointed out, at the end of the day, it is ALWAYS true that the coach is responsible for the result. Saying so repeatedly is simply redundant. The good news is that in college, you can't fire the players, but you can fire the coach. The coach's failings are manifested in the player's play. If the coach points out a failing and attempts to take responsibility for it, it appears phony. He is really blaming the player. Thus, the coach is restricted to generalities, which aren't emotionally satisfying to the critics.
If I were to fault the coaches for anything in the UCLA game, it would be for not adequately preparing for max pressure and press man defense. It may be that they tried and it just didn't take, but that is where introspection is called for, IMHO. We will for sure see it again from Arizona.
The play Chryst called is in another category. I believe it was a rational, defensible call. He has the best running back in football. Illinois knows this. They are going to load up to stop him. Possibly, a pass will catch them totally by surprise and they won't defend it well (or at all). The QB won't throw it if it isn't wide open. If they get a first down, Illinois is toast. If they don't, they punt. Not a horrid call. Except the route was covered and the QB did throw it. There were already TWO defenders between the receiver and the QB, and one behind the receiver that possibly could have jumped the route. No way the QB should ever throw that ball. Chryst kept saying it was a "great interception, heck of a play". Well, in a way it was. The two defenders didn't run into each other competing for the ball. Chryst was attempting not to state the obvious. The QB totally screwed up by throwing the ball.
Many will say that Chryst should have run the ball. But the running back may fumble. See Oregon and Christobal (maybe its the name) in 2018. Maybe the QB should have taken a knee and then you punt. But the punt may get run back/blocked because of poor punt team play. Me, I would have run the ball, but that doesn't mean the other choices are necessarily bad. Good decision, bad outcome. Getting up there and saying "It is on me, I made a bad call." is crazy if in fact you don't believe you did. The team will know you aren't serious.
Where Chryst possibly should take himself to the woodshed is if he hadn't made it completely clear to the QB what the situation was. This could have come in previous coaching sessions or directly in this game. You shouldn't call that play unless you are sure your QB knows what to do.He may still make a mistake, as he did, but you should be able to say that he should have known better and mean it. Actually saying that, which Chryst didn't, would have been counter-productive. If he didn't coach that point adequately, he should apologize to the QB in private. Doing so in public would be interpreted as condescending.
Imagine the reaction if Shaw got up there and said "I screwed up. I should have recruited another QB after West because he sucks so bad that we got beat". While expressing responsibility, it is also throwing a particular guy under the bus. It also isn't accurate, as the OL was an even bigger issue. So, should Shaw say "We screwed up. We should have got better freshmen than we did."? Same problem. It throws a unit of the team under the bus, and would certainly be de-motivating to all involved. In this case, even if that is what the coach actually believes, he must not say it. If he says "We should have prepared the team better.", he may be absolutely right but nobody will take that general statement seriously.
As Shaw and others have pointed out, at the end of the day, it is ALWAYS true that the coach is responsible for the result. Saying so repeatedly is simply redundant. The good news is that in college, you can't fire the players, but you can fire the coach. The coach's failings are manifested in the player's play. If the coach points out a failing and attempts to take responsibility for it, it appears phony. He is really blaming the player. Thus, the coach is restricted to generalities, which aren't emotionally satisfying to the critics.
If I were to fault the coaches for anything in the UCLA game, it would be for not adequately preparing for max pressure and press man defense. It may be that they tried and it just didn't take, but that is where introspection is called for, IMHO. We will for sure see it again from Arizona.
10-20-2019, 02:28 PM
Your points are very well taken, Goose, and while I think the probabilities favored running the ball, even if Illinois was expecting it, a reasonable case could be made for trying to surprise the defense with a pass. Of course Chryst, who is otherwise having a great season at Wisconsin should not be fired, nor should he be subjected to excessive criticism for that call.
I think some people have a bit of an unreasonable expectation of what a coach is supposed to say in a loss. As I think CTCard has noted in the past, the coach has a wide audience in his press conferences, but fans that complain on message boards are probably lowest on the totem poll. Mostly, I think coaches want to get through the press conference without saying something that will go viral for all the wrong reasons. Then it becomes an exercise in communicating to players; trying not to blow the confidence of 18-21 year olds by throwing them under the bus, and reassuring them that the coaching staff knows what it’s doing. Letting fans know that they recognize there’s a structural problem in their offense I think would be pretty unprecedented.
BC
I think some people have a bit of an unreasonable expectation of what a coach is supposed to say in a loss. As I think CTCard has noted in the past, the coach has a wide audience in his press conferences, but fans that complain on message boards are probably lowest on the totem poll. Mostly, I think coaches want to get through the press conference without saying something that will go viral for all the wrong reasons. Then it becomes an exercise in communicating to players; trying not to blow the confidence of 18-21 year olds by throwing them under the bus, and reassuring them that the coaching staff knows what it’s doing. Letting fans know that they recognize there’s a structural problem in their offense I think would be pretty unprecedented.
BC
Your points are very well taken, Goose, and while I think the probabilities favored running the ball, even if Illinois was expecting it, a reasonable case could be made for trying to surprise the defense with a pass. Of course Chryst, who is otherwise having a great season at Wisconsin should not be fired, nor should he be subjected to excessive criticism for that call.
I think some people have a bit of an unreasonable expectation of what a coach is supposed to say in a loss. As I think CTCard has noted in the past, the coach has a wide audience in his press conferences, but fans that complain on message boards are probably lowest on the totem poll. Mostly, I think coaches want to get through the press conference without saying something that will go viral for all the wrong reasons. Then it becomes an exercise in communicating to players; trying not to blow the confidence of 18-21 year olds by throwing them under the bus, and reassuring them that the coaching staff knows what it’s doing. Letting fans know that they recognize there’s a structural problem in their offense I think would be pretty unprecedented.
BC
I think some people have a bit of an unreasonable expectation of what a coach is supposed to say in a loss. As I think CTCard has noted in the past, the coach has a wide audience in his press conferences, but fans that complain on message boards are probably lowest on the totem poll. Mostly, I think coaches want to get through the press conference without saying something that will go viral for all the wrong reasons. Then it becomes an exercise in communicating to players; trying not to blow the confidence of 18-21 year olds by throwing them under the bus, and reassuring them that the coaching staff knows what it’s doing. Letting fans know that they recognize there’s a structural problem in their offense I think would be pretty unprecedented.
BC
10-26-2019, 11:23 AM
Looking pretty ugly right now against OSU. Fourth and three, and the center is called for illegal procedure. No go on the fourth and eight.
Free Phogge!!!! And no, crimson doesn't refer to the Tide.
Looking pretty ugly right now against OSU. Fourth and three, and the center is called for illegal procedure. No go on the fourth and eight.
Free Phogge!!!! And no, crimson doesn't refer to the Tide.
10-26-2019, 11:49 AM
(10-26-2019, 11:23 AM)cardcrimson Wrote: Looking pretty ugly right now against OSU. Fourth and three, and the center is called for illegal procedure. No go on the fourth and eight.
After a tight game that stood at 10-7 Buckeyes at the beginning of the 2nd half, it is now 38-7 with 7 minutes and change left in the game. Badger meltdown.
(10-26-2019, 11:23 AM)cardcrimson Wrote: Looking pretty ugly right now against OSU. Fourth and three, and the center is called for illegal procedure. No go on the fourth and eight.
After a tight game that stood at 10-7 Buckeyes at the beginning of the 2nd half, it is now 38-7 with 7 minutes and change left in the game. Badger meltdown.
10-26-2019, 12:05 PM
Massive talent gap. Especially speed wise.
(10-26-2019, 11:49 AM)Austroturf Wrote:(10-26-2019, 11:23 AM)cardcrimson Wrote: Looking pretty ugly right now against OSU. Fourth and three, and the center is called for illegal procedure. No go on the fourth and eight.
After a tight game that stood at 10-7 Buckeyes at the beginning of the 2nd half, it is now 38-7 with 7 minutes and change left in the game. Badger meltdown.
Massive talent gap. Especially speed wise.
(10-26-2019, 11:49 AM)Austroturf Wrote:(10-26-2019, 11:23 AM)cardcrimson Wrote: Looking pretty ugly right now against OSU. Fourth and three, and the center is called for illegal procedure. No go on the fourth and eight.
After a tight game that stood at 10-7 Buckeyes at the beginning of the 2nd half, it is now 38-7 with 7 minutes and change left in the game. Badger meltdown.
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