[OutsiderFan]

I know some people were already past Jimmy Garoppolo as the answer at QB for the Niners, but I felt most of that sentiment was because he had a bad quarter in the Super Bowl. The opening loss to the Cardinals I put at the feet of not having Deebo Samuel, Brandon Aiyuk, or George Kittle for more than half the game. Then Garoppolo got hurt in Week 2 against the Jets. He missed two games the Niners split, then he was pulled against Miami because he clearly was injured still.  He beat the Rams and Patriots, but again without Samuel against Seattle, he wasn't very good and again was pulled because of injury.

He missed effectively the entire 2018 season. He stayed healthy and played pretty damn well in 2019, including probably the best game of his career at New Orleans in an epic win. He wasn't asked to do too much in the NFC playoffs, where the run game and suffocating defense was more responsible than he was for winning those games.  Then his team had a 4th quarter lead in the Super Bowl he ultimately lost when asked to win it.

Here's the thing. If he's not going to be healthy, he's not worth having. And to my way of looking at it, one of the reasons he can't stay healthy is because he's no longer mobile and quick enough to avoid being injured. His throwing accuracy was absolutely awful today.  I don't care if it it injury-related or not.  Part of playing the position is being able to be effective when deemed healthy enough to play. Brett Favre had ankle injuries, played hurt, and never was pulled for ineffectiveness.

It pains me to draw this conclusion because I have liked a lot of what Jimmy G has done. He's made a lot of very good plays for the Niners. But no team can't afford what the Niners are paying him to get Nick Mullens-level production either. My point is basically I don't care if he is playing poorly because he is injured. He's not playing well enough to justify paying him as a franchise QB, injured or not, and the Niners simply must improve at the position.

[OutsiderFan]

I know some people were already past Jimmy Garoppolo as the answer at QB for the Niners, but I felt most of that sentiment was because he had a bad quarter in the Super Bowl. The opening loss to the Cardinals I put at the feet of not having Deebo Samuel, Brandon Aiyuk, or George Kittle for more than half the game. Then Garoppolo got hurt in Week 2 against the Jets. He missed two games the Niners split, then he was pulled against Miami because he clearly was injured still.  He beat the Rams and Patriots, but again without Samuel against Seattle, he wasn't very good and again was pulled because of injury.

He missed effectively the entire 2018 season. He stayed healthy and played pretty damn well in 2019, including probably the best game of his career at New Orleans in an epic win. He wasn't asked to do too much in the NFC playoffs, where the run game and suffocating defense was more responsible than he was for winning those games.  Then his team had a 4th quarter lead in the Super Bowl he ultimately lost when asked to win it.

Here's the thing. If he's not going to be healthy, he's not worth having. And to my way of looking at it, one of the reasons he can't stay healthy is because he's no longer mobile and quick enough to avoid being injured. His throwing accuracy was absolutely awful today.  I don't care if it it injury-related or not.  Part of playing the position is being able to be effective when deemed healthy enough to play. Brett Favre had ankle injuries, played hurt, and never was pulled for ineffectiveness.

It pains me to draw this conclusion because I have liked a lot of what Jimmy G has done. He's made a lot of very good plays for the Niners. But no team can't afford what the Niners are paying him to get Nick Mullens-level production either. My point is basically I don't care if he is playing poorly because he is injured. He's not playing well enough to justify paying him as a franchise QB, injured or not, and the Niners simply must improve at the position.

[Mick]

I know some people were already past Jimmy Garoppolo as the answer at QB for the Niners, but I felt most of that sentiment was because he had a bad quarter in the Super Bowl. The opening loss to the Cardinals I put at the feet of not having Deebo Samuel, Brandon Aiyuk, or George Kittle for more than half the game. Then Garoppolo got hurt in Week 2 against the Jets. He missed two games the Niners split, then he was pulled against Miami because he clearly was injured still.  He beat the Rams and Patriots, but again without Samuel against Seattle, he wasn't very good and again was pulled because of injury.

He missed effectively the entire 2018 season. He stayed healthy and played pretty damn well in 2019, including probably the best game of his career at New Orleans in an epic win. He wasn't asked to do too much in the NFC playoffs, where the run game and suffocating defense was more responsible than he was for winning those games.  Then his team had a 4th quarter lead in the Super Bowl he ultimately lost when asked to win it.

Here's the thing. If he's not going to be healthy, he's not worth having. And to my way of looking at it, one of the reasons he can't stay healthy is because he's no longer mobile and quick enough to avoid being injured. His throwing accuracy was absolutely awful today.  I don't care if it it injury-related or not.  Part of playing the position is being able to be effective when deemed healthy enough to play. Brett Favre had ankle injuries, played hurt, and never was pulled for ineffectiveness.

It pains me to draw this conclusion because I have liked a lot of what Jimmy G has done. He's made a lot of very good plays for the Niners. But no team can't afford what the Niners are paying him to get Nick Mullens-level production either. My point is basically I don't care if he is playing poorly because he is injured. He's not playing well enough to justify paying him as a franchise QB, injured or not, and the Niners simply must improve at the position.

Mullens was 18/25 for 238 yards, 2 TDs and 0 INT's and didn't get sacked.  Rating of 128.4, QBR of 97.0.  I would be very happy if Garoppolo had those stats.

[Mick]

I know some people were already past Jimmy Garoppolo as the answer at QB for the Niners, but I felt most of that sentiment was because he had a bad quarter in the Super Bowl. The opening loss to the Cardinals I put at the feet of not having Deebo Samuel, Brandon Aiyuk, or George Kittle for more than half the game. Then Garoppolo got hurt in Week 2 against the Jets. He missed two games the Niners split, then he was pulled against Miami because he clearly was injured still.  He beat the Rams and Patriots, but again without Samuel against Seattle, he wasn't very good and again was pulled because of injury.

He missed effectively the entire 2018 season. He stayed healthy and played pretty damn well in 2019, including probably the best game of his career at New Orleans in an epic win. He wasn't asked to do too much in the NFC playoffs, where the run game and suffocating defense was more responsible than he was for winning those games.  Then his team had a 4th quarter lead in the Super Bowl he ultimately lost when asked to win it.

Here's the thing. If he's not going to be healthy, he's not worth having. And to my way of looking at it, one of the reasons he can't stay healthy is because he's no longer mobile and quick enough to avoid being injured. His throwing accuracy was absolutely awful today.  I don't care if it it injury-related or not.  Part of playing the position is being able to be effective when deemed healthy enough to play. Brett Favre had ankle injuries, played hurt, and never was pulled for ineffectiveness.

It pains me to draw this conclusion because I have liked a lot of what Jimmy G has done. He's made a lot of very good plays for the Niners. But no team can't afford what the Niners are paying him to get Nick Mullens-level production either. My point is basically I don't care if he is playing poorly because he is injured. He's not playing well enough to justify paying him as a franchise QB, injured or not, and the Niners simply must improve at the position.

Mullens was 18/25 for 238 yards, 2 TDs and 0 INT's and didn't get sacked.  Rating of 128.4, QBR of 97.0.  I would be very happy if Garoppolo had those stats.

[OutsiderFan]

Mullens was 18/25 for 238 yards, 2 TDs and 0 INT's and didn't get sacked.  Rating of 128.4, QBR of 97.0.  I would be very happy if Garoppolo had those stats.

Stats can be deceiving. The Niners were down 30-7 before Mullens came in and Seattle was not coming after him like they did Garoppolo. We saw Mullens puke all over himself when he started against Philly.  He was wretched in that game and almost single-handily cost the Niners that game with his terrible play. He cost the Niners at least 13 points in that loss, a game they lost by 5 points.

[OutsiderFan]

Mullens was 18/25 for 238 yards, 2 TDs and 0 INT's and didn't get sacked.  Rating of 128.4, QBR of 97.0.  I would be very happy if Garoppolo had those stats.

Stats can be deceiving. The Niners were down 30-7 before Mullens came in and Seattle was not coming after him like they did Garoppolo. We saw Mullens puke all over himself when he started against Philly.  He was wretched in that game and almost single-handily cost the Niners that game with his terrible play. He cost the Niners at least 13 points in that loss, a game they lost by 5 points.

[Phogge]

Plenty of mobile QB's with upside in college. The North Dakota kid, Fields at Ohio State, more. Scout.

[Phogge]

Plenty of mobile QB's with upside in college. The North Dakota kid, Fields at Ohio State, more. Scout.

[BobK]

Reagardless of how poor Jimmy played the OL was worse
Remember Beathard was the # 2 and not available
Poor game for sure against a poor defense

Thursday is the next game

[BobK]

Reagardless of how poor Jimmy played the OL was worse
Remember Beathard was the # 2 and not available
Poor game for sure against a poor defense

Thursday is the next game

[teejers1]

I know some people were already past Jimmy Garoppolo as the answer at QB for the Niners, but I felt most of that sentiment was because he had a bad quarter in the Super Bowl. The opening loss to the Cardinals I put at the feet of not having Deebo Samuel, Brandon Aiyuk, or George Kittle for more than half the game. Then Garoppolo got hurt in Week 2 against the Jets. He missed two games the Niners split, then he was pulled against Miami because he clearly was injured still.  He beat the Rams and Patriots, but again without Samuel against Seattle, he wasn't very good and again was pulled because of injury.

He missed effectively the entire 2018 season. He stayed healthy and played pretty damn well in 2019, including probably the best game of his career at New Orleans in an epic win. He wasn't asked to do too much in the NFC playoffs, where the run game and suffocating defense was more responsible than he was for winning those games.  Then his team had a 4th quarter lead in the Super Bowl he ultimately lost when asked to win it.

Here's the thing. If he's not going to be healthy, he's not worth having. And to my way of looking at it, one of the reasons he can't stay healthy is because he's no longer mobile and quick enough to avoid being injured. His throwing accuracy was absolutely awful today.  I don't care if it it injury-related or not.  Part of playing the position is being able to be effective when deemed healthy enough to play. Brett Favre had ankle injuries, played hurt, and never was pulled for ineffectiveness.

It pains me to draw this conclusion because I have liked a lot of what Jimmy G has done. He's made a lot of very good plays for the Niners. But no team can't afford what the Niners are paying him to get Nick Mullens-level production either. My point is basically I don't care if he is playing poorly because he is injured. He's not playing well enough to justify paying him as a franchise QB, injured or not, and the Niners simply must improve at the position.

This is going to sound crazy, but the pivotal moment of the game, imo, was when Shanahan called the read-option on 3rd and 4-5 for a RB (and split Jimmy out wide) when 'Niners were on Seattle 44 yard line (or so).  I thought Shaw had taken over the headset momentarily in some kind of time-place warp.  Anyway, play is ridiculously telegraphed and Seattle smothers it in the backfield for a loss ==> a punt.  I am completely fine with running the ball in that situation, with an eye toward going for it on fourth down and am confident Shanahan was thinking along same lines.  But do it from a regular formation.  That one was WAY too obvious; moreover, when Seattle brings everybody up and Shanahan can see the run blitz is coming, he has to take a timeout there and re-set.

I know San Francisco downed its punt at the 1 and got the ball back shortly thereafter on a Seattle punt, but Jimmy (and the entire O) is based on rhythm and momentum and keeping a D on their heels.  That one bad play call bolloxed it all up .  . . and early.  [The other momentum-breaker was the fumble recovery by Seattle after their punt alluded to above that took forever to overturn.  Jimmy gets out of joint and throws a horrific pick after the long delay. Awful.].

Having said all of the above, I'm completely ambivalent as to whether Jimmy stays or goes.  Mullens is as good as he is, imo, or awfully close.  Neither is an elite-level QB (though there are only a handful of them out there right now).

[teejers1]

I know some people were already past Jimmy Garoppolo as the answer at QB for the Niners, but I felt most of that sentiment was because he had a bad quarter in the Super Bowl. The opening loss to the Cardinals I put at the feet of not having Deebo Samuel, Brandon Aiyuk, or George Kittle for more than half the game. Then Garoppolo got hurt in Week 2 against the Jets. He missed two games the Niners split, then he was pulled against Miami because he clearly was injured still.  He beat the Rams and Patriots, but again without Samuel against Seattle, he wasn't very good and again was pulled because of injury.

He missed effectively the entire 2018 season. He stayed healthy and played pretty damn well in 2019, including probably the best game of his career at New Orleans in an epic win. He wasn't asked to do too much in the NFC playoffs, where the run game and suffocating defense was more responsible than he was for winning those games.  Then his team had a 4th quarter lead in the Super Bowl he ultimately lost when asked to win it.

Here's the thing. If he's not going to be healthy, he's not worth having. And to my way of looking at it, one of the reasons he can't stay healthy is because he's no longer mobile and quick enough to avoid being injured. His throwing accuracy was absolutely awful today.  I don't care if it it injury-related or not.  Part of playing the position is being able to be effective when deemed healthy enough to play. Brett Favre had ankle injuries, played hurt, and never was pulled for ineffectiveness.

It pains me to draw this conclusion because I have liked a lot of what Jimmy G has done. He's made a lot of very good plays for the Niners. But no team can't afford what the Niners are paying him to get Nick Mullens-level production either. My point is basically I don't care if he is playing poorly because he is injured. He's not playing well enough to justify paying him as a franchise QB, injured or not, and the Niners simply must improve at the position.

This is going to sound crazy, but the pivotal moment of the game, imo, was when Shanahan called the read-option on 3rd and 4-5 for a RB (and split Jimmy out wide) when 'Niners were on Seattle 44 yard line (or so).  I thought Shaw had taken over the headset momentarily in some kind of time-place warp.  Anyway, play is ridiculously telegraphed and Seattle smothers it in the backfield for a loss ==> a punt.  I am completely fine with running the ball in that situation, with an eye toward going for it on fourth down and am confident Shanahan was thinking along same lines.  But do it from a regular formation.  That one was WAY too obvious; moreover, when Seattle brings everybody up and Shanahan can see the run blitz is coming, he has to take a timeout there and re-set.

I know San Francisco downed its punt at the 1 and got the ball back shortly thereafter on a Seattle punt, but Jimmy (and the entire O) is based on rhythm and momentum and keeping a D on their heels.  That one bad play call bolloxed it all up .  . . and early.  [The other momentum-breaker was the fumble recovery by Seattle after their punt alluded to above that took forever to overturn.  Jimmy gets out of joint and throws a horrific pick after the long delay. Awful.].

Having said all of the above, I'm completely ambivalent as to whether Jimmy stays or goes.  Mullens is as good as he is, imo, or awfully close.  Neither is an elite-level QB (though there are only a handful of them out there right now).

[SamuelMcF]

Having said all of the above, I'm completely ambivalent as to whether Jimmy stays or goes.  Mullens is as good as he is, imo, or awfully close.  Neither is an elite-level QB (though there are only a handful of them out there right now).

I agree that neither is an elite-level QB, but disagree that Mullens is as good as Jimmy. We'll get to see that for the rest of the season.

[SamuelMcF]

Having said all of the above, I'm completely ambivalent as to whether Jimmy stays or goes.  Mullens is as good as he is, imo, or awfully close.  Neither is an elite-level QB (though there are only a handful of them out there right now).

I agree that neither is an elite-level QB, but disagree that Mullens is as good as Jimmy. We'll get to see that for the rest of the season.

[BobK]

Jimmy out 6 weeks Kittle probably for the year

[BobK]

Jimmy out 6 weeks Kittle probably for the year

[OutsiderFan]

It might be easier to list who is healthy than who is hurt at this point.

The season is lost. Time to start angling for the best draft pick possible and thinking about 2021 and beyond. Might want to trade Sherman too, to give him a shot in the playoffs. He'll be a FA after this season and may even retire.

[OutsiderFan]

It might be easier to list who is healthy than who is hurt at this point.

The season is lost. Time to start angling for the best draft pick possible and thinking about 2021 and beyond. Might want to trade Sherman too, to give him a shot in the playoffs. He'll be a FA after this season and may even retire.

[BobK]

Sherman is hurt OF
Alexander traded today

[BobK]

Sherman is hurt OF
Alexander traded today

[Mick]

Sherman is hurt OF
Alexander traded today

this is now officially a rebuilding season.  They should trade every semi-able-bodied player who grades out at B+ or less, for draft picks and A-level talent.

I'd keep Kittle.  Deebo.  Mullens as backup.  Tomlinson.  Mostert.  Bourne.  Warner.  Bosa.  Two other DLs, Dee Ford and Armistead.  That's about it, in terms of necessary keepers.

[Mick]

Sherman is hurt OF
Alexander traded today

this is now officially a rebuilding season.  They should trade every semi-able-bodied player who grades out at B+ or less, for draft picks and A-level talent.

I'd keep Kittle.  Deebo.  Mullens as backup.  Tomlinson.  Mostert.  Bourne.  Warner.  Bosa.  Two other DLs, Dee Ford and Armistead.  That's about it, in terms of necessary keepers.

[Phogge]

Aijuk absolute keeper. Resign #44. Keep Harris and Moore, Williams, Moseley, Brunskill, Garland, Wilson, Hasty, Gould, Blair if he can get healthy, DJ Jones, Kinlaw, Greenlaw. Absolutely unload or cut Sherman, Taylor, Wisnowski, Coleman, McKinnon,Thomas, Jimmy, Weatherspoon, Jordan, Dwelley, Pettus. Give snaps if as it seems the season is undone to Woerner, Skule, McKissick, Cracraft (who terrorized Stanford), White.

Package the #1 and as many as needed to get Fields or the N. Dakota kid. Perhaps take the mobile kid at BYU with the #1.

Seems like a 7-9 season ahead with Mullens hot and cold.

Or talk Andrew into a comeback.

[Phogge]

Aijuk absolute keeper. Resign #44. Keep Harris and Moore, Williams, Moseley, Brunskill, Garland, Wilson, Hasty, Gould, Blair if he can get healthy, DJ Jones, Kinlaw, Greenlaw. Absolutely unload or cut Sherman, Taylor, Wisnowski, Coleman, McKinnon,Thomas, Jimmy, Weatherspoon, Jordan, Dwelley, Pettus. Give snaps if as it seems the season is undone to Woerner, Skule, McKissick, Cracraft (who terrorized Stanford), White.

Package the #1 and as many as needed to get Fields or the N. Dakota kid. Perhaps take the mobile kid at BYU with the #1.

Seems like a 7-9 season ahead with Mullens hot and cold.

Or talk Andrew into a comeback.

[cardcrimson]

Or talk Andrew into a comeback.

Probably your finest comment ever.

[cardcrimson]

Or talk Andrew into a comeback.

Probably your finest comment ever.

[old spanish trail]

I don't buy it. All JG did last season was lead the 9ers to the SB, only to lose on a crummy 4th qtr. which included an unfortunate miss on a long pass. (I've seen plenty of long pass misses this season by top qb's.) Otherwise, he was excellent. This year, he's trying to play with a high ankle sprain. Ever had one. It affects everything.

I like Mullins alot...as a backup. When he came in Sun., Seattle went to a deep prevent D. It looked like all their db's were 25 yds deep in a straight line. There was lots of room at the 15-18 yd mark. I hope Mullins will prove me wrong, btw, but I'm not counting on it. Play the younger guys to give them experience and try to remain respectable. Hopefully, next year will be better in all kinds of ways. (We'll know more tomorrow)

[old spanish trail]

I don't buy it. All JG did last season was lead the 9ers to the SB, only to lose on a crummy 4th qtr. which included an unfortunate miss on a long pass. (I've seen plenty of long pass misses this season by top qb's.) Otherwise, he was excellent. This year, he's trying to play with a high ankle sprain. Ever had one. It affects everything.

I like Mullins alot...as a backup. When he came in Sun., Seattle went to a deep prevent D. It looked like all their db's were 25 yds deep in a straight line. There was lots of room at the 15-18 yd mark. I hope Mullins will prove me wrong, btw, but I'm not counting on it. Play the younger guys to give them experience and try to remain respectable. Hopefully, next year will be better in all kinds of ways. (We'll know more tomorrow)

[OutsiderFan]

Sherman may be hurt now, but he's suppose to be returning this season. Why would he want to continue playing out his potentially last season for a team too weakened by injury to make any kind of run.

Seattle has had its own CB injury issues. Maybe a return there would make sense? Trade deadline is tomorrow so we'll know soon enough.

[OutsiderFan]

Sherman may be hurt now, but he's suppose to be returning this season. Why would he want to continue playing out his potentially last season for a team too weakened by injury to make any kind of run.

Seattle has had its own CB injury issues. Maybe a return there would make sense? Trade deadline is tomorrow so we'll know soon enough.

[bbm233]

Seattle has had its own CB injury issues. Maybe a return there would make sense? Trade deadline is tomorrow so we'll know soon enough.

Seattle doesn't have any cap space to bring on Sherman's salary, and I think they learned last year with Marshawn that you can't relive the past.

[bbm233]

Seattle has had its own CB injury issues. Maybe a return there would make sense? Trade deadline is tomorrow so we'll know soon enough.

Seattle doesn't have any cap space to bring on Sherman's salary, and I think they learned last year with Marshawn that you can't relive the past.

[teejers1]

Seattle has had its own CB injury issues. Maybe a return there would make sense? Trade deadline is tomorrow so we'll know soon enough.

Seattle doesn't have any cap space to bring on Sherman's salary, and I think they learned last year with Marshawn that you can't relive the past.

Is Sherman's salary all that punitive?  Wasn't it heavily incentive-laden (for which Sherman was criticized)?  Regardless, I agree that Sherm is on his last legs, so to speak.  He won't get much, if anything, in a trade.  And if he decides to try and play for another year, I'd expect a similarly team-friendly contract negotiated.  In short, he's not going to get you any kind of trade bounce (or even a salary hit).  And anyone on a rookie deal (like Aiyuk) is stuck on a ridiculously team-friendly deal, so all the rookie deal guys are going to stay (unless the 'Niners don't think they can play, in which case they'll be cut . . . unless they find a team who thinks otherwise).

P.S. Mullen's QB numbers were quite good the season Jimmy was on the shelf . . . the rest of the team wasn't nearly as good then as it is now . . . or was, before the ridiculous number of injuries. BTW, my son said Shanahan made S&C changes to 'Niners' staff before this season. Is that right?

[teejers1]

Seattle has had its own CB injury issues. Maybe a return there would make sense? Trade deadline is tomorrow so we'll know soon enough.

Seattle doesn't have any cap space to bring on Sherman's salary, and I think they learned last year with Marshawn that you can't relive the past.

Is Sherman's salary all that punitive?  Wasn't it heavily incentive-laden (for which Sherman was criticized)?  Regardless, I agree that Sherm is on his last legs, so to speak.  He won't get much, if anything, in a trade.  And if he decides to try and play for another year, I'd expect a similarly team-friendly contract negotiated.  In short, he's not going to get you any kind of trade bounce (or even a salary hit).  And anyone on a rookie deal (like Aiyuk) is stuck on a ridiculously team-friendly deal, so all the rookie deal guys are going to stay (unless the 'Niners don't think they can play, in which case they'll be cut . . . unless they find a team who thinks otherwise).

P.S. Mullen's QB numbers were quite good the season Jimmy was on the shelf . . . the rest of the team wasn't nearly as good then as it is now . . . or was, before the ridiculous number of injuries. BTW, my son said Shanahan made S&C changes to 'Niners' staff before this season. Is that right?

[Mick]

This year, he's trying to play with a high ankle sprain. Ever had one. It affects everything.

I think Garoppolo at his best is pretty darned good.  Right now, he's a statue.  it's the high ankle sprain, it's the ACL recovery, it's a porous offensive line.  I think his legs are effecting his ability to throw right and left.  He used to be able to make sideline throws.  He can't really do that now.

This is a lost year. Time to trade the "B" level talent for all the "A" level talent and draft choices they can get.

[Mick]

This year, he's trying to play with a high ankle sprain. Ever had one. It affects everything.

I think Garoppolo at his best is pretty darned good.  Right now, he's a statue.  it's the high ankle sprain, it's the ACL recovery, it's a porous offensive line.  I think his legs are effecting his ability to throw right and left.  He used to be able to make sideline throws.  He can't really do that now.

This is a lost year. Time to trade the "B" level talent for all the "A" level talent and draft choices they can get.