[Redrum]

One of the new themes emerging is that Stanford and Pac Whatever lucked out because inviting Texas to join is like inviting a mafia boss to become a partner in your business.   A local OK writer offers his thoughts.  Not a pretty look at the inner workings of the Big XII

http://newsok.com/berry-tramel-big-12-co...tory_title

[Redrum]

One of the new themes emerging is that Stanford and Pac Whatever lucked out because inviting Texas to join is like inviting a mafia boss to become a partner in your business.   A local OK writer offers his thoughts.  Not a pretty look at the inner workings of the Big XII

http://newsok.com/berry-tramel-big-12-co...tory_title

[fullmetal]

True enough.  I also see the caution in not forming superconferences too quickly, lest Congress decide college athletics is too good to leave tax-exempt.  I\'m not sure they should remain tax-exempt, at least the football cash cow programs anyway.

[fullmetal]

True enough.  I also see the caution in not forming superconferences too quickly, lest Congress decide college athletics is too good to leave tax-exempt.  I\'m not sure they should remain tax-exempt, at least the football cash cow programs anyway.

[Kathy]

This whole debacle was simply a vehicle to feed the insatiable greed of UT. The Oklahoma writer might just be a little bit biased in his outlook. Mizzou\'s president joined the Dumb & Dumber duo at a press conference in Columbia yesterday where they admitted that a Big Ten invitation was never on the table and no one seems to know where the speculation of MU to the Big Ten started, speculation that Nebraska tried to blame for NU bolting from the conference. (Their mistake, they claim, was in not denying the interest right away. Well, that and the governor shooting off his mouth -- I still think MU thought it could whip up Big Ten interest to use as a bargaining chip for a better revenue share but that plan went down in flames).

There is no new TV contract yet and the revenue-sharing plan remains unchanged (the teams with more wins get more money), including the penalty fees the Big 12-2 will extract from Colorado and Nebraska, according to Dan Beebe:

All withdrawal fees withheld from Colorado and Nebraska will be shared by the 10 remaining members in accordance with the conference\'s revenue distribution policy.

http://www.columbiatribune.com/weblogs/b...lk-big-12/

Apparently, the entire deal was engineered so the t-sips could start their own TV network, something no other conference would let them do. The Pac-10 should count its lucky stars that it only got stuck with Colorado instead of The Godfather.

[Kathy]

This whole debacle was simply a vehicle to feed the insatiable greed of UT. The Oklahoma writer might just be a little bit biased in his outlook. Mizzou\'s president joined the Dumb & Dumber duo at a press conference in Columbia yesterday where they admitted that a Big Ten invitation was never on the table and no one seems to know where the speculation of MU to the Big Ten started, speculation that Nebraska tried to blame for NU bolting from the conference. (Their mistake, they claim, was in not denying the interest right away. Well, that and the governor shooting off his mouth -- I still think MU thought it could whip up Big Ten interest to use as a bargaining chip for a better revenue share but that plan went down in flames).

There is no new TV contract yet and the revenue-sharing plan remains unchanged (the teams with more wins get more money), including the penalty fees the Big 12-2 will extract from Colorado and Nebraska, according to Dan Beebe:

All withdrawal fees withheld from Colorado and Nebraska will be shared by the 10 remaining members in accordance with the conference\'s revenue distribution policy.

http://www.columbiatribune.com/weblogs/b...lk-big-12/

Apparently, the entire deal was engineered so the t-sips could start their own TV network, something no other conference would let them do. The Pac-10 should count its lucky stars that it only got stuck with Colorado instead of The Godfather.

[CowboyIndian]

including the penalty fees the Big 12-2 will extract from Colorado and Nebraska, according to Dan Beebe:

All withdrawal fees withheld from Colorado and Nebraska will be shared by the 10 remaining members in accordance with the conference\'s revenue distribution policy.

Are these \'withdrawal\' fees enforceable? What if NU and CU told the Big 12 to go suck it? Or is there a contingency account that NU and CU have already paid into as members?

[CowboyIndian]

including the penalty fees the Big 12-2 will extract from Colorado and Nebraska, according to Dan Beebe:

All withdrawal fees withheld from Colorado and Nebraska will be shared by the 10 remaining members in accordance with the conference\'s revenue distribution policy.

Are these \'withdrawal\' fees enforceable? What if NU and CU told the Big 12 to go suck it? Or is there a contingency account that NU and CU have already paid into as members?

[Redrum]

conference does.  That\'s major conference. I think the WAC\'s fee for Boise State exiting is giving the WAC\'s lawyers freebie tickets to the Boise St./TCU game.  Should be a barn burner.

Anyway,  maybe withdrawal fees/penalties have always been a part of the picture for all major conferences, except the SEC where such an idea literally cannot be conceived.    Maybe the withdrawal fee is unique to the Big XII , a unique, practical admission that from the git-go the Big XII knew it was unstable as deuterium isotopes.

But, whatever, it\'s a contract and a contract means lawyers and lawyers mean endless, expensive pain.   Short form:  they\'ll probably pay and be glad.

But taking common sense out of the equation,  I\'d like to see CU\'s and the Big XII lawyers go at it for two reasons:

A)  It would be interesting.   The only line of argument that might
work would be to argue that  Texas\'  (and OK and OSU and TT and T&M)  own  manuevering and failure to support the Big 12 definitively forced Colorado\'s hand in seeking a safe harbor in the Pac-10.  Those schools were openly contemplating the demise of the Big XII on their own terms, so they can\'t blame others for protecting their own interests.   I don\'t think it\'s necessarily a winning argument, but I\'d like to see them try.

B) A lawsuit would mean a discovery process,  which would turn up documents on just how greedy and arrogant UT really is.   Nice to have that public.

I have relatives who went to UT,  so as long as Stanford wasn\'t playing them,  I was neutral and detached about UT.   Having seen what they are,  I\'ll be rooting for Oklahoma every...single...time.

[Redrum]

conference does.  That\'s major conference. I think the WAC\'s fee for Boise State exiting is giving the WAC\'s lawyers freebie tickets to the Boise St./TCU game.  Should be a barn burner.

Anyway,  maybe withdrawal fees/penalties have always been a part of the picture for all major conferences, except the SEC where such an idea literally cannot be conceived.    Maybe the withdrawal fee is unique to the Big XII , a unique, practical admission that from the git-go the Big XII knew it was unstable as deuterium isotopes.

But, whatever, it\'s a contract and a contract means lawyers and lawyers mean endless, expensive pain.   Short form:  they\'ll probably pay and be glad.

But taking common sense out of the equation,  I\'d like to see CU\'s and the Big XII lawyers go at it for two reasons:

A)  It would be interesting.   The only line of argument that might
work would be to argue that  Texas\'  (and OK and OSU and TT and T&M)  own  manuevering and failure to support the Big 12 definitively forced Colorado\'s hand in seeking a safe harbor in the Pac-10.  Those schools were openly contemplating the demise of the Big XII on their own terms, so they can\'t blame others for protecting their own interests.   I don\'t think it\'s necessarily a winning argument, but I\'d like to see them try.

B) A lawsuit would mean a discovery process,  which would turn up documents on just how greedy and arrogant UT really is.   Nice to have that public.

I have relatives who went to UT,  so as long as Stanford wasn\'t playing them,  I was neutral and detached about UT.   Having seen what they are,  I\'ll be rooting for Oklahoma every...single...time.

[fullmetal]

Right, because usually the only way to leave a group controlled by a mafia don is in a coffin.  From a branding perspective, I can see where Texas wants to be unique and get themselves out there.  (As if they didn\'t have enough money already...)

[fullmetal]

Right, because usually the only way to leave a group controlled by a mafia don is in a coffin.  From a branding perspective, I can see where Texas wants to be unique and get themselves out there.  (As if they didn\'t have enough money already...)

[Leftcoast]

I\'m starting to think the Pac 10 dodged a bullet in avoiding Texas.   Sounds like sour grapes, I know, but the revelations on just how badly they treat their "colleagues" in the Big 12 is revealing.   My naive assumption was that they would "just" be another USC.  

It\'s clear now I needed a different ruler.   USC\'s arrogance, previously believed to be an unfathomable quantity, pales when compared to UT\'s.

I\'ve got to believe that the more desirable schools in the Big 12 will be looking for an exit door, a process that will accellerate once Texas starts their own network.  An alliance with no trust and diminishing shared interests is inherently unstable.  Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, perhaps OK State and K State will all be reviewing options for leaving on their own terms after living through extortion on Longhorn terms.  

The Big 12 is done.   Maybe not this year ... but soon.

[Leftcoast]

I\'m starting to think the Pac 10 dodged a bullet in avoiding Texas.   Sounds like sour grapes, I know, but the revelations on just how badly they treat their "colleagues" in the Big 12 is revealing.   My naive assumption was that they would "just" be another USC.  

It\'s clear now I needed a different ruler.   USC\'s arrogance, previously believed to be an unfathomable quantity, pales when compared to UT\'s.

I\'ve got to believe that the more desirable schools in the Big 12 will be looking for an exit door, a process that will accellerate once Texas starts their own network.  An alliance with no trust and diminishing shared interests is inherently unstable.  Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, perhaps OK State and K State will all be reviewing options for leaving on their own terms after living through extortion on Longhorn terms.  

The Big 12 is done.   Maybe not this year ... but soon.

[Redrum]

They\'d take a run at the weakened Big 12,  taking A&M, Oklahoma,  leaving the rest to be eaten by Texas.  Let the Big 12 die. Let Texas make it\'s own TV deal.  Let Texas become the Notre Dame of the Southwest,  independently and proudly playing whatever sucky teams it can line up and playing an "independent" rivalry game against A&M.   Then see what kind of market UT can sustain.

Meanwhile,  the SEC would be right in UT\'s face,  right on its turf, with a recruiting presence in Texas and the Southwest.   Maybe if Nick Saban or Urban Meyer come in w/ national championship jewelry and gives UT  competition,  maybe then the Longhorns will start thinking ecologically about protecting their entire competitive environment, not just their bank account balance.

I would LOVE the SEC to bring in Southwest teams.   I have sympathy but don\'t see an upward path for OSU, Kansas, Missouri, K-State and Iowa St. in the long run.  

[Redrum]

They\'d take a run at the weakened Big 12,  taking A&M, Oklahoma,  leaving the rest to be eaten by Texas.  Let the Big 12 die. Let Texas make it\'s own TV deal.  Let Texas become the Notre Dame of the Southwest,  independently and proudly playing whatever sucky teams it can line up and playing an "independent" rivalry game against A&M.   Then see what kind of market UT can sustain.

Meanwhile,  the SEC would be right in UT\'s face,  right on its turf, with a recruiting presence in Texas and the Southwest.   Maybe if Nick Saban or Urban Meyer come in w/ national championship jewelry and gives UT  competition,  maybe then the Longhorns will start thinking ecologically about protecting their entire competitive environment, not just their bank account balance.

I would LOVE the SEC to bring in Southwest teams.   I have sympathy but don\'t see an upward path for OSU, Kansas, Missouri, K-State and Iowa St. in the long run.  

[CowboyIndian]

...we would all sprout wings, world peace would break out and BP would come up with a deep-sea bottle stopper. Your supposition asks too much, my friend.

[CowboyIndian]

...we would all sprout wings, world peace would break out and BP would come up with a deep-sea bottle stopper. Your supposition asks too much, my friend.

[davidjwalsh]

I\'m starting to think the Pac 10 dodged a bullet in avoiding Texas.   Sounds like sour grapes, I know, but the revelations on just how badly they treat their "colleagues" in the Big 12 is revealing.   My naive assumption was that they would "just" be another USC.  

It\'s clear now I needed a different ruler.   USC\'s arrogance, previously believed to be an unfathomable quantity, pales when compared to UT\'s.

I\'ve got to believe that the more desirable schools in the Big 12 will be looking for an exit door, a process that will accellerate once Texas starts their own network.  An alliance with no trust and diminishing shared interests is inherently unstable.  Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, perhaps OK State and K State will all be reviewing options for leaving on their own terms after living through extortion on Longhorn terms.  

The Big 12 is done.   Maybe not this year ... but soon.

You have just expressed the position of EVERY CU and NU fan we are so glad to be rid of Texas.  I know you guys thought USC was bad but you have no idea until you\'ve dealt with Texas first hand.

[davidjwalsh]

I\'m starting to think the Pac 10 dodged a bullet in avoiding Texas.   Sounds like sour grapes, I know, but the revelations on just how badly they treat their "colleagues" in the Big 12 is revealing.   My naive assumption was that they would "just" be another USC.  

It\'s clear now I needed a different ruler.   USC\'s arrogance, previously believed to be an unfathomable quantity, pales when compared to UT\'s.

I\'ve got to believe that the more desirable schools in the Big 12 will be looking for an exit door, a process that will accellerate once Texas starts their own network.  An alliance with no trust and diminishing shared interests is inherently unstable.  Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, perhaps OK State and K State will all be reviewing options for leaving on their own terms after living through extortion on Longhorn terms.  

The Big 12 is done.   Maybe not this year ... but soon.

You have just expressed the position of EVERY CU and NU fan we are so glad to be rid of Texas.  I know you guys thought USC was bad but you have no idea until you\'ve dealt with Texas first hand.

[davidjwalsh]

And not only do we not have to put up with Texas, we get rid of those sucky games with UCLA and USC that nobody at Stanford cared about. I\'m happy as a clam now.

Rumor has it the Pac-12 will still play 9 conference games, given the split I\'d assume that means 1 against: CU/UTes - UA/ASU - UCLA/USC  with a +1 somewhere.

[davidjwalsh]

And not only do we not have to put up with Texas, we get rid of those sucky games with UCLA and USC that nobody at Stanford cared about. I\'m happy as a clam now.

Rumor has it the Pac-12 will still play 9 conference games, given the split I\'d assume that means 1 against: CU/UTes - UA/ASU - UCLA/USC  with a +1 somewhere.

[KartyFan]

And not only do we not have to put up with Texas, we get rid of those sucky games with UCLA and USC that nobody at Stanford cared about. I\'m happy as a clam now.

Rumor has it the Pac-12 will still play 9 conference games, given the split I\'d assume that means 1 against: CU/UTes - UA/ASU - UCLA/USC  with a +1 somewhere.

From a Stanford perspective, it would be great to fix that +1 with the LA schools.  I think it\'s more likely, however, that we\'ll go down to 8 games.

[KartyFan]

And not only do we not have to put up with Texas, we get rid of those sucky games with UCLA and USC that nobody at Stanford cared about. I\'m happy as a clam now.

Rumor has it the Pac-12 will still play 9 conference games, given the split I\'d assume that means 1 against: CU/UTes - UA/ASU - UCLA/USC  with a +1 somewhere.

From a Stanford perspective, it would be great to fix that +1 with the LA schools.  I think it\'s more likely, however, that we\'ll go down to 8 games.

[Leftcoast]

By the way, Absinthe, welcome.

Any memories of those Stanford/Colorado games from the 90\'s?   Those were pretty fan friendly affairs and, if I recall correctly, the two schools split the series.   /Lefty

[Leftcoast]

By the way, Absinthe, welcome.

Any memories of those Stanford/Colorado games from the 90\'s?   Those were pretty fan friendly affairs and, if I recall correctly, the two schools split the series.   /Lefty