03-04-2021, 12:48 PM
Rivals has the answer as to what’s going on. Sorry I can’t repeat so this is a bit of a jerk post. It ain’t good nor is it injury
MBB: STAN vs USC (blowout loss)
03-04-2021, 02:07 PM
Not a jerk post at all. The wheels have come off so fantastically as to beg the question. Speaking for myself, my whirring brain will slow down some as I wait to hear the scoop on this. No matter what it is, it can't absolve this coach of everything, but at least there's some explanation for this schitt.
(03-04-2021, 12:48 PM)BobK Wrote: Rivals has the answer as to what’s going on. Sorry I can’t repeat so this is a bit of a jerk post. It ain’t good nor is it injury
Not a jerk post at all. The wheels have come off so fantastically as to beg the question. Speaking for myself, my whirring brain will slow down some as I wait to hear the scoop on this. No matter what it is, it can't absolve this coach of everything, but at least there's some explanation for this schitt.
(03-04-2021, 12:48 PM)BobK Wrote: Rivals has the answer as to what’s going on. Sorry I can’t repeat so this is a bit of a jerk post. It ain’t good nor is it injury
03-04-2021, 03:08 PM
(03-04-2021, 02:07 PM)AlbanyCardinal Wrote: Not a jerk post at all. The wheels have come off so fantastically as to beg the question. Speaking for myself, my whirring brain will slow down some as I wait to hear the scoop on this. No matter what it is, it can't absolve this coach of everything, but at least there's some explanation for this schitt.
(03-04-2021, 12:48 PM)BobK Wrote: Rivals has the answer as to what’s going on. Sorry I can’t repeat so this is a bit of a jerk post. It ain’t good nor is it injury
Ugh, from promising to ...
In sticking with the sour theme, was it only last year where we blew a 20 pt half time lead to USC?
(03-04-2021, 02:07 PM)AlbanyCardinal Wrote: Not a jerk post at all. The wheels have come off so fantastically as to beg the question. Speaking for myself, my whirring brain will slow down some as I wait to hear the scoop on this. No matter what it is, it can't absolve this coach of everything, but at least there's some explanation for this schitt.
(03-04-2021, 12:48 PM)BobK Wrote: Rivals has the answer as to what’s going on. Sorry I can’t repeat so this is a bit of a jerk post. It ain’t good nor is it injury
Ugh, from promising to ...
In sticking with the sour theme, was it only last year where we blew a 20 pt half time lead to USC?
Quote:Do any of those sites really have true current knowledge and opinions of NBA scouts? Last year at this time Nico Mannion was a projected lottery pick. I can't imagine a NBA general manager who runs a team that didn't make the playoffs using their most precious asset (lottery pick) on Williams. He seems like a better fit with a team drafting later in Round 1 with a full roster that can stash him as a two way player in the G league to get more experience. https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wiz...-nba-draft
Mock drafts as the actual draft approaches tend to be fairly accurate, particularly with respect to the first fifteen picks. The article you linked was published almost eight months prior to the 2020 draft, and obviously a lot can happen between now and this year's draft. It's entirely possible that Williams fades during the draft process or that other prospects rise, and we don't yet know who will declare for the draft this year. I agree with you that he could easily end up falling out of the lottery, but it would be shocking for him to fall out of the first round entirely as was suggested.
This is where the various sources that I cited eventually projected Nico Mannion last year:
Sam Vecenie (The Athletic): #41 (#47 on his Big Board)
CBS Sports: #38
NBC Sports: #30
NBA Draft Room: #37
ESPN, USA Today, NBAdraft.net: not specified, but not in first round in any of these.
Mannion was ultimately drafted #48. Vecenie has been the best informed in recent years. NBC was also the most bullish on Mannion throughout the process and the only mock to ultimately place him in the first round.
Bottom line is that Ziaire is not returning or transferring, he is looking at a guaranteed NBA contract.
Quote:Do any of those sites really have true current knowledge and opinions of NBA scouts? Last year at this time Nico Mannion was a projected lottery pick. I can't imagine a NBA general manager who runs a team that didn't make the playoffs using their most precious asset (lottery pick) on Williams. He seems like a better fit with a team drafting later in Round 1 with a full roster that can stash him as a two way player in the G league to get more experience. https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wiz...-nba-draft
Mock drafts as the actual draft approaches tend to be fairly accurate, particularly with respect to the first fifteen picks. The article you linked was published almost eight months prior to the 2020 draft, and obviously a lot can happen between now and this year's draft. It's entirely possible that Williams fades during the draft process or that other prospects rise, and we don't yet know who will declare for the draft this year. I agree with you that he could easily end up falling out of the lottery, but it would be shocking for him to fall out of the first round entirely as was suggested.
This is where the various sources that I cited eventually projected Nico Mannion last year:
Sam Vecenie (The Athletic): #41 (#47 on his Big Board)
CBS Sports: #38
NBC Sports: #30
NBA Draft Room: #37
ESPN, USA Today, NBAdraft.net: not specified, but not in first round in any of these.
Mannion was ultimately drafted #48. Vecenie has been the best informed in recent years. NBC was also the most bullish on Mannion throughout the process and the only mock to ultimately place him in the first round.
Bottom line is that Ziaire is not returning or transferring, he is looking at a guaranteed NBA contract.
03-04-2021, 03:21 PM
(03-04-2021, 03:08 PM)magnus Wrote:(03-04-2021, 02:07 PM)AlbanyCardinal Wrote: Not a jerk post at all. The wheels have come off so fantastically as to beg the question. Speaking for myself, my whirring brain will slow down some as I wait to hear the scoop on this. No matter what it is, it can't absolve this coach of everything, but at least there's some explanation for this schitt.
(03-04-2021, 12:48 PM)BobK Wrote: Rivals has the answer as to what’s going on. Sorry I can’t repeat so this is a bit of a jerk post. It ain’t good nor is it injury
Ugh, from promising to ...
In sticking with the sour theme, was it only last year where we blew a 20 pt half time lead to USC?
Yep. But that's nothing compared to the fact that we blew a 5-point lead with 15 seconds to go.
(03-04-2021, 03:08 PM)magnus Wrote:(03-04-2021, 02:07 PM)AlbanyCardinal Wrote: Not a jerk post at all. The wheels have come off so fantastically as to beg the question. Speaking for myself, my whirring brain will slow down some as I wait to hear the scoop on this. No matter what it is, it can't absolve this coach of everything, but at least there's some explanation for this schitt.
(03-04-2021, 12:48 PM)BobK Wrote: Rivals has the answer as to what’s going on. Sorry I can’t repeat so this is a bit of a jerk post. It ain’t good nor is it injury
Ugh, from promising to ...
In sticking with the sour theme, was it only last year where we blew a 20 pt half time lead to USC?
Yep. But that's nothing compared to the fact that we blew a 5-point lead with 15 seconds to go.
(03-04-2021, 03:20 PM)DC 86 Wrote:Quote:Do any of those sites really have true current knowledge and opinions of NBA scouts? Last year at this time Nico Mannion was a projected lottery pick. I can't imagine a NBA general manager who runs a team that didn't make the playoffs using their most precious asset (lottery pick) on Williams. He seems like a better fit with a team drafting later in Round 1 with a full roster that can stash him as a two way player in the G league to get more experience. https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wiz...-nba-draft
Mock drafts as the actual draft approaches tend to be fairly accurate, particularly with respect to the first fifteen picks. The article you linked was published almost eight months prior to the 2020 draft, and obviously a lot can happen between now and this year's draft. It's entirely possible that Williams fades during the draft process or that other prospects rise, and we don't yet know who will declare for the draft this year. I agree with you that he could easily end up falling out of the lottery, but it would be shocking for him to fall out of the first round entirely as was suggested.
This is where the various sources that I cited eventually projected Nico Mannion last year:
Sam Vecenie (The Athletic): #41 (#47 on his Big Board)
CBS Sports: #38
NBC Sports: #30
NBA Draft Room: #37
ESPN, USA Today, NBAdraft.net: not specified, but not in first round in any of these.
Mannion was ultimately drafted #48. Vecenie has been the best informed in recent years. NBC was also the most bullish on Mannion throughout the process and the only mock to ultimately place him in the first round.
Bottom line is that Ziaire is not returning or transferring, he is looking at a guaranteed NBA contract.
Second-round picks don't get guaranteed contracts. I think transfer is the most likely of three possible outcomes - transfer, go pro. or stay.
(03-04-2021, 03:20 PM)DC 86 Wrote:Quote:Do any of those sites really have true current knowledge and opinions of NBA scouts? Last year at this time Nico Mannion was a projected lottery pick. I can't imagine a NBA general manager who runs a team that didn't make the playoffs using their most precious asset (lottery pick) on Williams. He seems like a better fit with a team drafting later in Round 1 with a full roster that can stash him as a two way player in the G league to get more experience. https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wiz...-nba-draft
Mock drafts as the actual draft approaches tend to be fairly accurate, particularly with respect to the first fifteen picks. The article you linked was published almost eight months prior to the 2020 draft, and obviously a lot can happen between now and this year's draft. It's entirely possible that Williams fades during the draft process or that other prospects rise, and we don't yet know who will declare for the draft this year. I agree with you that he could easily end up falling out of the lottery, but it would be shocking for him to fall out of the first round entirely as was suggested.
This is where the various sources that I cited eventually projected Nico Mannion last year:
Sam Vecenie (The Athletic): #41 (#47 on his Big Board)
CBS Sports: #38
NBC Sports: #30
NBA Draft Room: #37
ESPN, USA Today, NBAdraft.net: not specified, but not in first round in any of these.
Mannion was ultimately drafted #48. Vecenie has been the best informed in recent years. NBC was also the most bullish on Mannion throughout the process and the only mock to ultimately place him in the first round.
Bottom line is that Ziaire is not returning or transferring, he is looking at a guaranteed NBA contract.
Second-round picks don't get guaranteed contracts. I think transfer is the most likely of three possible outcomes - transfer, go pro. or stay.
03-04-2021, 06:16 PM
(03-04-2021, 06:07 PM)winflop Wrote:(03-04-2021, 03:20 PM)DC 86 Wrote:Quote:Do any of those sites really have true current knowledge and opinions of NBA scouts? Last year at this time Nico Mannion was a projected lottery pick. I can't imagine a NBA general manager who runs a team that didn't make the playoffs using their most precious asset (lottery pick) on Williams. He seems like a better fit with a team drafting later in Round 1 with a full roster that can stash him as a two way player in the G league to get more experience. https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wiz...-nba-draft
Mock drafts as the actual draft approaches tend to be fairly accurate, particularly with respect to the first fifteen picks. The article you linked was published almost eight months prior to the 2020 draft, and obviously a lot can happen between now and this year's draft. It's entirely possible that Williams fades during the draft process or that other prospects rise, and we don't yet know who will declare for the draft this year. I agree with you that he could easily end up falling out of the lottery, but it would be shocking for him to fall out of the first round entirely as was suggested.
This is where the various sources that I cited eventually projected Nico Mannion last year:
Sam Vecenie (The Athletic): #41 (#47 on his Big Board)
CBS Sports: #38
NBC Sports: #30
NBA Draft Room: #37
ESPN, USA Today, NBAdraft.net: not specified, but not in first round in any of these.
Mannion was ultimately drafted #48. Vecenie has been the best informed in recent years. NBC was also the most bullish on Mannion throughout the process and the only mock to ultimately place him in the first round.
Bottom line is that Ziaire is not returning or transferring, he is looking at a guaranteed NBA contract.
Second-round picks don't get guaranteed contracts. I think transfer is the most likely of three possible outcomes - transfer, go pro. or stay.
Will declare and still be a first rounder.
(03-04-2021, 06:07 PM)winflop Wrote:(03-04-2021, 03:20 PM)DC 86 Wrote:Quote:Do any of those sites really have true current knowledge and opinions of NBA scouts? Last year at this time Nico Mannion was a projected lottery pick. I can't imagine a NBA general manager who runs a team that didn't make the playoffs using their most precious asset (lottery pick) on Williams. He seems like a better fit with a team drafting later in Round 1 with a full roster that can stash him as a two way player in the G league to get more experience. https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wiz...-nba-draft
Mock drafts as the actual draft approaches tend to be fairly accurate, particularly with respect to the first fifteen picks. The article you linked was published almost eight months prior to the 2020 draft, and obviously a lot can happen between now and this year's draft. It's entirely possible that Williams fades during the draft process or that other prospects rise, and we don't yet know who will declare for the draft this year. I agree with you that he could easily end up falling out of the lottery, but it would be shocking for him to fall out of the first round entirely as was suggested.
This is where the various sources that I cited eventually projected Nico Mannion last year:
Sam Vecenie (The Athletic): #41 (#47 on his Big Board)
CBS Sports: #38
NBC Sports: #30
NBA Draft Room: #37
ESPN, USA Today, NBAdraft.net: not specified, but not in first round in any of these.
Mannion was ultimately drafted #48. Vecenie has been the best informed in recent years. NBC was also the most bullish on Mannion throughout the process and the only mock to ultimately place him in the first round.
Bottom line is that Ziaire is not returning or transferring, he is looking at a guaranteed NBA contract.
Second-round picks don't get guaranteed contracts. I think transfer is the most likely of three possible outcomes - transfer, go pro. or stay.
Will declare and still be a first rounder.
03-04-2021, 06:40 PM
Sounds as bad as I feared if Bob is declaring failure. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if Harrison Ingram asked for his LOI release.
Saw a little of wbb this afternoon vs SC. Can Tara coach the guys? She has a power house on her hands.
Saw a little of wbb this afternoon vs SC. Can Tara coach the guys? She has a power house on her hands.
Sounds as bad as I feared if Bob is declaring failure. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if Harrison Ingram asked for his LOI release.
Saw a little of wbb this afternoon vs SC. Can Tara coach the guys? She has a power house on her hands.
Saw a little of wbb this afternoon vs SC. Can Tara coach the guys? She has a power house on her hands.
03-04-2021, 07:51 PM
(03-04-2021, 07:28 PM)winflop Wrote: Even if it's not a coaching problem, it's a coaching problem. Coaches are responsible for recruiting & development, and if they missed red flags along the way, that's on them.True. The coach is the captain of the ship. If it hits a rock and sinks it is his responsibility no matter why it happened. However, while it is his responsibility, it may not be his fault. We will see what actually happened (maybe). It is not always wise to punish the ship's captain for a grounding, even though it is his responsibility to avoid them. Sometimes it is, but not always.
(03-04-2021, 07:28 PM)winflop Wrote: Even if it's not a coaching problem, it's a coaching problem. Coaches are responsible for recruiting & development, and if they missed red flags along the way, that's on them.True. The coach is the captain of the ship. If it hits a rock and sinks it is his responsibility no matter why it happened. However, while it is his responsibility, it may not be his fault. We will see what actually happened (maybe). It is not always wise to punish the ship's captain for a grounding, even though it is his responsibility to avoid them. Sometimes it is, but not always.
03-04-2021, 08:56 PM
(03-04-2021, 07:28 PM)winflop Wrote:(03-04-2021, 06:49 PM)BobK Wrote: Well it may not be coaching so much
Even if it's not a coaching problem, it's a coaching problem. Coaches are responsible for recruiting & development, and if they missed red flags along the way, that's on them.
Yup, the buck has to stop somewhere. Question is whether this was an unforeseeable thing that won't happen again or whether this reflects some underlying misjudgment by the staff for which there is risk of repeat.
Separately (or maybe relatedly) I was a bit put off by the fact that Haase wrote daily letters to Williams. Makes me think he's focusing too much on getting highly recruited mega-whales and not enough on making the most of the players we have.
BC
(03-04-2021, 07:28 PM)winflop Wrote:(03-04-2021, 06:49 PM)BobK Wrote: Well it may not be coaching so much
Even if it's not a coaching problem, it's a coaching problem. Coaches are responsible for recruiting & development, and if they missed red flags along the way, that's on them.
Yup, the buck has to stop somewhere. Question is whether this was an unforeseeable thing that won't happen again or whether this reflects some underlying misjudgment by the staff for which there is risk of repeat.
Separately (or maybe relatedly) I was a bit put off by the fact that Haase wrote daily letters to Williams. Makes me think he's focusing too much on getting highly recruited mega-whales and not enough on making the most of the players we have.
BC
03-04-2021, 09:26 PM
(03-04-2021, 08:56 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Yup, the buck has to stop somewhere. Question is whether this was an unforeseeable thing that won't happen again or whether this reflects some underlying misjudgment by the staff for which there is risk of repeat.Or maybe it was foreseeable but was deemed worth the risk. Lots of possible factors involved. COVID-19 also undoubtedly affected how the team adjusted to each other and to Stanford. Very different than a normal year. For quite a while they were all joined at the hip. That can be a good experience, but it also may not be.
Quote:Separately (or maybe relatedly) I was a bit put off by the fact that Haase wrote daily letters to Williams. Makes me think he's focusing too much on getting highly recruited mega-whales and not enough on making the most of the players we have.I have expressed exactly that sentiment on this board. Frankly, I would think it a bit strange if I were a recruit. I don't think Stanford is a great place for a "one and done" in general. We don't play an offense dominated run and gun type of game that shows off individual athletic talents, mostly because we don't have that kind of players. We have guys who can play, but it is more about defense, assists, and controlling the game. If we have a "one and done" who is so good he can take over the game and force the opponent to concentrate on said player, it can open things up for other guys on the team. However this will have to be done in the context of "who we are". Williams was unable to do that. Best case, it is certainly asking a lot, but that is kind of what one hopes a "one and done" brings. That may be fine. Many people on this board believe that it won't hurt his draft stock much. That may be true and it won't hurt him, but I am not convinced having him on the roster really helped the team much this year.
BC
(03-04-2021, 08:56 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Yup, the buck has to stop somewhere. Question is whether this was an unforeseeable thing that won't happen again or whether this reflects some underlying misjudgment by the staff for which there is risk of repeat.Or maybe it was foreseeable but was deemed worth the risk. Lots of possible factors involved. COVID-19 also undoubtedly affected how the team adjusted to each other and to Stanford. Very different than a normal year. For quite a while they were all joined at the hip. That can be a good experience, but it also may not be.
Quote:Separately (or maybe relatedly) I was a bit put off by the fact that Haase wrote daily letters to Williams. Makes me think he's focusing too much on getting highly recruited mega-whales and not enough on making the most of the players we have.I have expressed exactly that sentiment on this board. Frankly, I would think it a bit strange if I were a recruit. I don't think Stanford is a great place for a "one and done" in general. We don't play an offense dominated run and gun type of game that shows off individual athletic talents, mostly because we don't have that kind of players. We have guys who can play, but it is more about defense, assists, and controlling the game. If we have a "one and done" who is so good he can take over the game and force the opponent to concentrate on said player, it can open things up for other guys on the team. However this will have to be done in the context of "who we are". Williams was unable to do that. Best case, it is certainly asking a lot, but that is kind of what one hopes a "one and done" brings. That may be fine. Many people on this board believe that it won't hurt his draft stock much. That may be true and it won't hurt him, but I am not convinced having him on the roster really helped the team much this year.
BC
03-04-2021, 09:37 PM
I have a source at Rivals who shared the story to which it seems Bob referenced.
UGLEEE
I find it amusing that the guy who made the post thinks people claiming it's not Haase's fault are crazy. Nah, the head coach is responsible for everything.
My overall read on it is Haase has either failed to establish a strong culture, brought in players who haven't bought in, not held everyone accountable relative to others, or some combination of all three.
UGLEEE
I find it amusing that the guy who made the post thinks people claiming it's not Haase's fault are crazy. Nah, the head coach is responsible for everything.
My overall read on it is Haase has either failed to establish a strong culture, brought in players who haven't bought in, not held everyone accountable relative to others, or some combination of all three.
I have a source at Rivals who shared the story to which it seems Bob referenced.
UGLEEE
I find it amusing that the guy who made the post thinks people claiming it's not Haase's fault are crazy. Nah, the head coach is responsible for everything.
My overall read on it is Haase has either failed to establish a strong culture, brought in players who haven't bought in, not held everyone accountable relative to others, or some combination of all three.
UGLEEE
I find it amusing that the guy who made the post thinks people claiming it's not Haase's fault are crazy. Nah, the head coach is responsible for everything.
My overall read on it is Haase has either failed to establish a strong culture, brought in players who haven't bought in, not held everyone accountable relative to others, or some combination of all three.
03-05-2021, 12:41 AM
Oh come on! The story is out there, so tell it. Rivals doesn't own the truth. Spill the beans already.
Put a glide in your stride and a dip in your hip.
![[Image: ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia...f=1&nofb=1]](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F3orif9gHXKcKsWHoGI%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1)
03-05-2021, 02:20 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-05-2021, 02:25 PM by CardinalSagehen.)
(03-05-2021, 11:59 AM)gailtate Wrote:(03-05-2021, 12:41 AM)martyup Wrote: Oh come on! The story is out there, so tell it. Rivals doesn't own the truth. Spill the beans already.
We get what we pay for here.
Hey guys, Twitter is free! (unless you're counting the personal information and marketing impressions that you traded to be there.) Below is probably the gist of what Rivals had to say. I am just another cheapskate that doesn't subscribe, so I don't really know for sure.
For my money, David Lombardi was the best of the bunch. Fortunately for him, he now covers the 49ers.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/StanfordRivals/status/1367560775770927105?s=20[/tweet]
(This post was last modified: 03-05-2021, 02:25 PM by CardinalSagehen.)
(03-05-2021, 11:59 AM)gailtate Wrote:(03-05-2021, 12:41 AM)martyup Wrote: Oh come on! The story is out there, so tell it. Rivals doesn't own the truth. Spill the beans already.
We get what we pay for here.
Hey guys, Twitter is free! (unless you're counting the personal information and marketing impressions that you traded to be there.) Below is probably the gist of what Rivals had to say. I am just another cheapskate that doesn't subscribe, so I don't really know for sure.
For my money, David Lombardi was the best of the bunch. Fortunately for him, he now covers the 49ers.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/StanfordRivals/status/1367560775770927105?s=20[/tweet]
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