[BostonCard]

https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/p3...d_coaches/

Discuss.

BC

[BostonCard]

https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/p3...d_coaches/

Discuss.

BC

[teejers1]

https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/p3...d_coaches/

Discuss.

BC

Even I was surprised by lack of respect for Stanford under last 2 coaches.  
BTW, didn't realize Kush had that long a tenure at ASU!

[teejers1]

https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/p3...d_coaches/

Discuss.

BC

Even I was surprised by lack of respect for Stanford under last 2 coaches.  
BTW, didn't realize Kush had that long a tenure at ASU!

[winflop]

Shaw is without a doubt Stanford's best coach in the last 50 years but I don't think he belongs on this list until he wins a conference title with his own recruits.

[winflop]

Shaw is without a doubt Stanford's best coach in the last 50 years but I don't think he belongs on this list until he wins a conference title with his own recruits.

[CowboyIndian]

Shaw is without a doubt Stanford's best coach in the last 50 years but I don't think he belongs on this list until he wins a conference title with his own recruits.

You should put a laughing emoji after this. Otherwise, people will think you’re serious.

[CowboyIndian]

Shaw is without a doubt Stanford's best coach in the last 50 years but I don't think he belongs on this list until he wins a conference title with his own recruits.

You should put a laughing emoji after this. Otherwise, people will think you’re serious.

[winflop]

Shaw is without a doubt Stanford's best coach in the last 50 years but I don't think he belongs on this list until he wins a conference title with his own recruits.

You should put a laughing emoji after this. Otherwise, people will think you’re serious.

I am serious, and don't call me Shirley.

[winflop]

Shaw is without a doubt Stanford's best coach in the last 50 years but I don't think he belongs on this list until he wins a conference title with his own recruits.

You should put a laughing emoji after this. Otherwise, people will think you’re serious.

I am serious, and don't call me Shirley.

[BobK]

I Am so happy Harbaugh keep recruiting for Stanford while with the 49ers.
2011 Shaw head coach
2015 Shaw wins Pac 12 title.

Geesh

[BobK]

I Am so happy Harbaugh keep recruiting for Stanford while with the 49ers.
2011 Shaw head coach
2015 Shaw wins Pac 12 title.

Geesh

[winflop]

I Am so happy Harbaugh keep recruiting for Stanford while with the 49ers. 
2011 Shaw head coach
2015 Shaw wins Pac 12 title. 

Geesh

2015 roster included fifth-year players (Harbaugh recruits) who played significant roles: Kevin Anderson, Cajuste, Harris, Hogan, Wright

[winflop]

I Am so happy Harbaugh keep recruiting for Stanford while with the 49ers. 
2011 Shaw head coach
2015 Shaw wins Pac 12 title. 

Geesh

2015 roster included fifth-year players (Harbaugh recruits) who played significant roles: Kevin Anderson, Cajuste, Harris, Hogan, Wright

[SamuelMcF]

I Am so happy Harbaugh keep recruiting for Stanford while with the 49ers. 
2011 Shaw head coach
2015 Shaw wins Pac 12 title. 

Geesh

2015 roster included fifth-year players (Harbaugh recruits) who played significant roles: Kevin Anderson, Cajuste, Harris, Hogan, Wright

9 of the 80+ players on that team were Harbaugh recruits. To your point, however, 4 of them were starters, including the QB. A fifth played a key role as (a very effective) goal-line RB, scoring 11 TDs and denying a Shaw recruit the Voldemort.

Did Shaw effectively ride CMac and a good-enough defense to a Rose Bowl? Yes. But the guy handing and throwing him the ball, and calling all the plays at the LOS, was a Harbaugh recruit.

[SamuelMcF]

I Am so happy Harbaugh keep recruiting for Stanford while with the 49ers. 
2011 Shaw head coach
2015 Shaw wins Pac 12 title. 

Geesh

2015 roster included fifth-year players (Harbaugh recruits) who played significant roles: Kevin Anderson, Cajuste, Harris, Hogan, Wright

9 of the 80+ players on that team were Harbaugh recruits. To your point, however, 4 of them were starters, including the QB. A fifth played a key role as (a very effective) goal-line RB, scoring 11 TDs and denying a Shaw recruit the Voldemort.

Did Shaw effectively ride CMac and a good-enough defense to a Rose Bowl? Yes. But the guy handing and throwing him the ball, and calling all the plays at the LOS, was a Harbaugh recruit.

[Phogge]

Any list without Chris Klieman is bogus. Five years at North Dakota State, 69-6 with four national FCS championships.

Also no Vic Rowan at SFS. Developed a pass first attack way before anybody else.

[Phogge]

Any list without Chris Klieman is bogus. Five years at North Dakota State, 69-6 with four national FCS championships.

Also no Vic Rowan at SFS. Developed a pass first attack way before anybody else.

[CowboyIndian]

I Am so happy Harbaugh keep recruiting for Stanford while with the 49ers. 
2011 Shaw head coach
2015 Shaw wins Pac 12 title. 

Geesh

2015 roster included fifth-year players (Harbaugh recruits) who played significant roles: Kevin Anderson, Cajuste, Harris, Hogan, Wright

More than 5 guys on that team as I recall. And who got them to stay for a fifth year?

[CowboyIndian]

I Am so happy Harbaugh keep recruiting for Stanford while with the 49ers. 
2011 Shaw head coach
2015 Shaw wins Pac 12 title. 

Geesh

2015 roster included fifth-year players (Harbaugh recruits) who played significant roles: Kevin Anderson, Cajuste, Harris, Hogan, Wright

More than 5 guys on that team as I recall. And who got them to stay for a fifth year?

[CardinalSagehen]

I Am so happy Harbaugh keep recruiting for Stanford while with the 49ers. 
2011 Shaw head coach
2015 Shaw wins Pac 12 title. 

Geesh

2015 roster included fifth-year players (Harbaugh recruits) who played significant roles: Kevin Anderson, Cajuste, Harris, Hogan, Wright

9 of the 80+ players on that team were Harbaugh recruits. To your point, however, 4 of them were starters, including the QB. A fifth played a key role as (a very effective) goal-line RB, scoring 11 TDs and denying a Shaw recruit the Voldemort.

Did Shaw effectively ride CMac and a good-enough defense to a Rose Bowl? Yes. But the guy handing and throwing him the ball, and calling all the plays at the LOS, was a Harbaugh recruit.

Revisionist history.  

Recruiting is the problem now, not then. We had top 20 classes following that Rose Bowl in 2016, 2017, 2019, and 2020 (okay, it was #21).  Anyone that expects us to have top 10 classes is delusional.  

It’s also pretty unreasonable to make a point that Hogan was a Harbaugh recruit.  He was never even coached under Harbaugh. He was a guy that exceeded expectations and expanded his potential under Shaw. 

People should be more upset that we did too little with the 2017 class or that we’re struggling to land any top-200 players these days.  But Shaw gets credit for 2015.

[CardinalSagehen]

I Am so happy Harbaugh keep recruiting for Stanford while with the 49ers. 
2011 Shaw head coach
2015 Shaw wins Pac 12 title. 

Geesh

2015 roster included fifth-year players (Harbaugh recruits) who played significant roles: Kevin Anderson, Cajuste, Harris, Hogan, Wright

9 of the 80+ players on that team were Harbaugh recruits. To your point, however, 4 of them were starters, including the QB. A fifth played a key role as (a very effective) goal-line RB, scoring 11 TDs and denying a Shaw recruit the Voldemort.

Did Shaw effectively ride CMac and a good-enough defense to a Rose Bowl? Yes. But the guy handing and throwing him the ball, and calling all the plays at the LOS, was a Harbaugh recruit.

Revisionist history.  

Recruiting is the problem now, not then. We had top 20 classes following that Rose Bowl in 2016, 2017, 2019, and 2020 (okay, it was #21).  Anyone that expects us to have top 10 classes is delusional.  

It’s also pretty unreasonable to make a point that Hogan was a Harbaugh recruit.  He was never even coached under Harbaugh. He was a guy that exceeded expectations and expanded his potential under Shaw. 

People should be more upset that we did too little with the 2017 class or that we’re struggling to land any top-200 players these days.  But Shaw gets credit for 2015.

[Phogge]

Eight million dollar job. Really easy to sit on the veranda and “manage” a program in a university that will never fire you.

[Phogge]

Eight million dollar job. Really easy to sit on the veranda and “manage” a program in a university that will never fire you.

[winflop]

I Am so happy Harbaugh keep recruiting for Stanford while with the 49ers. 
2011 Shaw head coach
2015 Shaw wins Pac 12 title. 

Geesh

2015 roster included fifth-year players (Harbaugh recruits) who played significant roles: Kevin Anderson, Cajuste, Harris, Hogan, Wright

More than 5 guys on that team as I recall. And who got them to stay for a fifth year?

Yes there were another 5 or 6 Harbaugh recruits on the roster but they played backup roles or weren't even on the two-deep. My list was only starters.

---

It’s also pretty unreasonable to make a point that Hogan was a Harbaugh recruit.  He was never even coached under Harbaugh. He was a guy that exceeded expectations and expanded his potential under Shaw.

Hogan was identified, recruited, and offered by Harbaugh. My friends and I sat next to his mother at the Orange Bowl as he was weighing his decision and she asked us a lot of questions.

---

Recruiting is the problem now, not then. We had top 20 classes following that Rose Bowl in 2016, 2017, 2019, and 2020 (okay, it was #21).  Anyone that expects us to have top 10 classes is delusional.  

What have those "top 20" classes gotten us in terms of roster depth and development as compared to previous years? Our roster is thinner, weaker, and softer and it shows in the win-loss column

[winflop]

I Am so happy Harbaugh keep recruiting for Stanford while with the 49ers. 
2011 Shaw head coach
2015 Shaw wins Pac 12 title. 

Geesh

2015 roster included fifth-year players (Harbaugh recruits) who played significant roles: Kevin Anderson, Cajuste, Harris, Hogan, Wright

More than 5 guys on that team as I recall. And who got them to stay for a fifth year?

Yes there were another 5 or 6 Harbaugh recruits on the roster but they played backup roles or weren't even on the two-deep. My list was only starters.

---

It’s also pretty unreasonable to make a point that Hogan was a Harbaugh recruit.  He was never even coached under Harbaugh. He was a guy that exceeded expectations and expanded his potential under Shaw.

Hogan was identified, recruited, and offered by Harbaugh. My friends and I sat next to his mother at the Orange Bowl as he was weighing his decision and she asked us a lot of questions.

---

Recruiting is the problem now, not then. We had top 20 classes following that Rose Bowl in 2016, 2017, 2019, and 2020 (okay, it was #21).  Anyone that expects us to have top 10 classes is delusional.  

What have those "top 20" classes gotten us in terms of roster depth and development as compared to previous years? Our roster is thinner, weaker, and softer and it shows in the win-loss column

[lex24]

Jaysus. The Harbaugh really did it BS is so old it’s unbelievable. Do you wanna know David Shaw’s  best coaching job, I’ll tell you. 2012. I don’t give a damn who recruited those players. He took a team that was floundering changed quarterbacks and turned it over to a red shirt freshman and they ran the table, won the conference and the Rose Bowl. A team with limited talent offensively and admittedly a very very good defense. Shaw recognized that and played to it. They ran the hell out of the ball controlled the clock and grounded out wins. Yeah I remember people complaining at the time that he took to long to switch to Hogan. Unbelievable.

 Maybe one day David Shaw will get the full credit he deserves. I kind of doubt it. But one can always hope.

---

I Am so happy Harbaugh keep recruiting for Stanford while with the 49ers. 
2011 Shaw head coach
2015 Shaw wins Pac 12 title. 

Geesh

2015 roster included fifth-year players (Harbaugh recruits) who played significant roles: Kevin Anderson, Cajuste, Harris, Hogan, Wright

9 of the 80+ players on that team were Harbaugh recruits. To your point, however, 4 of them were starters, including the QB. A fifth played a key role as (a very effective) goal-line RB, scoring 11 TDs and denying a Shaw recruit the Voldemort.

Did Shaw effectively ride CMac and a good-enough defense to a Rose Bowl? Yes. But the guy handing and throwing him the ball, and calling all the plays at the LOS, was a Harbaugh recruit.

Revisionist history.  

Recruiting is the problem now, not then. We had top 20 classes following that Rose Bowl in 2016, 2017, 2019, and 2020 (okay, it was #21).  Anyone that expects us to have top 10 classes is delusional.  

It’s also pretty unreasonable to make a point that Hogan was a Harbaugh recruit.  He was never even coached under Harbaugh. He was a guy that exceeded expectations and expanded his potential under Shaw. 

People should be more upset that we did too little with the 2017 class or that we’re struggling to land any top-200 players these days.  But Shaw gets credit for 2015.

He gets  credit for ‘12 and ‘13 also.  People tend to think it’s easy to walk in take over a team thrive with the talent they inherited It’s not. Ask Rod Dohower.

The seachange was not JH leaving. It was Luck graduating. From that point forward it was a different team without one of the greatest college quarterbacks ever.

[lex24]

Jaysus. The Harbaugh really did it BS is so old it’s unbelievable. Do you wanna know David Shaw’s  best coaching job, I’ll tell you. 2012. I don’t give a damn who recruited those players. He took a team that was floundering changed quarterbacks and turned it over to a red shirt freshman and they ran the table, won the conference and the Rose Bowl. A team with limited talent offensively and admittedly a very very good defense. Shaw recognized that and played to it. They ran the hell out of the ball controlled the clock and grounded out wins. Yeah I remember people complaining at the time that he took to long to switch to Hogan. Unbelievable.

 Maybe one day David Shaw will get the full credit he deserves. I kind of doubt it. But one can always hope.

---

I Am so happy Harbaugh keep recruiting for Stanford while with the 49ers. 
2011 Shaw head coach
2015 Shaw wins Pac 12 title. 

Geesh

2015 roster included fifth-year players (Harbaugh recruits) who played significant roles: Kevin Anderson, Cajuste, Harris, Hogan, Wright

9 of the 80+ players on that team were Harbaugh recruits. To your point, however, 4 of them were starters, including the QB. A fifth played a key role as (a very effective) goal-line RB, scoring 11 TDs and denying a Shaw recruit the Voldemort.

Did Shaw effectively ride CMac and a good-enough defense to a Rose Bowl? Yes. But the guy handing and throwing him the ball, and calling all the plays at the LOS, was a Harbaugh recruit.

Revisionist history.  

Recruiting is the problem now, not then. We had top 20 classes following that Rose Bowl in 2016, 2017, 2019, and 2020 (okay, it was #21).  Anyone that expects us to have top 10 classes is delusional.  

It’s also pretty unreasonable to make a point that Hogan was a Harbaugh recruit.  He was never even coached under Harbaugh. He was a guy that exceeded expectations and expanded his potential under Shaw. 

People should be more upset that we did too little with the 2017 class or that we’re struggling to land any top-200 players these days.  But Shaw gets credit for 2015.

He gets  credit for ‘12 and ‘13 also.  People tend to think it’s easy to walk in take over a team thrive with the talent they inherited It’s not. Ask Rod Dohower.

The seachange was not JH leaving. It was Luck graduating. From that point forward it was a different team without one of the greatest college quarterbacks ever.

[CardinalSagehen]

What have those "top 20" classes gotten us in terms of roster depth and development as compared to previous years? Our roster is thinner, weaker, and softer and it shows in the win-loss column

I agree with some of this point and made the same point myself. I think it’s reasonable for people not to be delighted with the results after 2015. (I’m personally okay with it, but it’s very debatable.) 

The question on the table was how much credit Shaw deserves for 2015. I think it’s totally unreasonable to credit that to Harbaugh’s lingering effect a full 5 seasons after he left.

He gets  credit for ‘12 and ‘13 also.  People tend to think it’s easy to walk in take over a team thrive with the talent they inherited It’s not. Ask Rod Dohower.

I agree fully. I don’t think Shaw’s credit for ‘12 and ‘13 is very debatable, either.

[CardinalSagehen]

What have those "top 20" classes gotten us in terms of roster depth and development as compared to previous years? Our roster is thinner, weaker, and softer and it shows in the win-loss column

I agree with some of this point and made the same point myself. I think it’s reasonable for people not to be delighted with the results after 2015. (I’m personally okay with it, but it’s very debatable.) 

The question on the table was how much credit Shaw deserves for 2015. I think it’s totally unreasonable to credit that to Harbaugh’s lingering effect a full 5 seasons after he left.

He gets  credit for ‘12 and ‘13 also.  People tend to think it’s easy to walk in take over a team thrive with the talent they inherited It’s not. Ask Rod Dohower.

I agree fully. I don’t think Shaw’s credit for ‘12 and ‘13 is very debatable, either.

[lex24]

Shaw is without a doubt Stanford's best coach in the last 50 years but I don't think he belongs on this list until he wins a conference title with his own recruits.

Go look at the list. How many PAC-12 championships did Telford win? How about Rich Rodriguez? Look at several others and tell me how many Power 5 conference championships they won. With anybody’s recruits. The list, quite frankly is a joke. Bobby Petrino?  Really….

[lex24]

Shaw is without a doubt Stanford's best coach in the last 50 years but I don't think he belongs on this list until he wins a conference title with his own recruits.

Go look at the list. How many PAC-12 championships did Telford win? How about Rich Rodriguez? Look at several others and tell me how many Power 5 conference championships they won. With anybody’s recruits. The list, quite frankly is a joke. Bobby Petrino?  Really….

[winflop]

Shaw is without a doubt Stanford's best coach in the last 50 years but I don't think he belongs on this list until he wins a conference title with his own recruits.

Go look at the list. How many PAC-12 championships did Telford win?  How about Rich Rodriguez? Look at several others and tell me how many Power 5 conference championships they won. With anybody’s recruits. The list, quite frankly is a joke. Bobby Petrino?  Really….

Never said Shaw was the only coach I didn't think belonged on the list. I just happen to hold him in less high regard than many on this board.

[winflop]

Shaw is without a doubt Stanford's best coach in the last 50 years but I don't think he belongs on this list until he wins a conference title with his own recruits.

Go look at the list. How many PAC-12 championships did Telford win?  How about Rich Rodriguez? Look at several others and tell me how many Power 5 conference championships they won. With anybody’s recruits. The list, quite frankly is a joke. Bobby Petrino?  Really….

Never said Shaw was the only coach I didn't think belonged on the list. I just happen to hold him in less high regard than many on this board.

[gailtate]

Shaw's issue right now is that his program is in years-long decline. His earlier achievements--the Rose Bowl, et. al. are indisputable and are rightly celebrated. Problem is that (1) he's in a Performance Now business, compounded by (2) the Harbaugh legacy that will nag him for as long as his teams remain middling. And he'd be the first one to make this declaration. What he doesn't have going in his favor, in terms of reputation as The All-Time Greats, ironically, is the nature of his employer. At many schools, such as the ones so many here look down their noses at, there would be no rest for the weary and no respite for Shaw. His job at this moment would probably not be in any jeopardy, but neither would he have anything close to the job security he enjoys now. If were subjected to the "other" fan bases, You can bet he'd be far hungrier than he apparently is on The Farm. Hey, good for him. Easier on the health.

[gailtate]

Shaw's issue right now is that his program is in years-long decline. His earlier achievements--the Rose Bowl, et. al. are indisputable and are rightly celebrated. Problem is that (1) he's in a Performance Now business, compounded by (2) the Harbaugh legacy that will nag him for as long as his teams remain middling. And he'd be the first one to make this declaration. What he doesn't have going in his favor, in terms of reputation as The All-Time Greats, ironically, is the nature of his employer. At many schools, such as the ones so many here look down their noses at, there would be no rest for the weary and no respite for Shaw. His job at this moment would probably not be in any jeopardy, but neither would he have anything close to the job security he enjoys now. If were subjected to the "other" fan bases, You can bet he'd be far hungrier than he apparently is on The Farm. Hey, good for him. Easier on the health.

[Goose]

If were subjected to the "other" fan bases, You can bet he'd be far hungrier than he apparently is on The Farm.

Your sure? I think self-motivated people, like most Stanford students are and certainly David Shaw is, do their best to ignore the noise around them and do what they believe will produce the best results. That can be maddening to those whose sky is falling, and it can be real bad if what the self-motivated person believes is actually wrong, but I think that is the situation.

[Goose]

If were subjected to the "other" fan bases, You can bet he'd be far hungrier than he apparently is on The Farm.

Your sure? I think self-motivated people, like most Stanford students are and certainly David Shaw is, do their best to ignore the noise around them and do what they believe will produce the best results. That can be maddening to those whose sky is falling, and it can be real bad if what the self-motivated person believes is actually wrong, but I think that is the situation.

[BigJohn043]

Jaysus. The Harbaugh really did it BS is so old it’s unbelievable. Do you wanna know David Shaw’s  best coaching job, I’ll tell you. 2012. I don’t give a damn who recruited those players. He took a team that was floundering changed quarterbacks and turned it over to a red shirt freshman and they ran the table, won the conference and the Rose Bowl. A team with limited talent offensively and admittedly a very very good defense. Shaw recognized that and played to it. They ran the hell out of the ball controlled  the clock and  grounded out wins. Yeah I remember people complaining at the time that  he took to long to switch to Hogan. Unbelievable.

 Maybe one day David Shaw will get the full credit he deserves. I kind of doubt it. But one can always hope.

---

I Am so happy Harbaugh keep recruiting for Stanford while with the 49ers. 
2011 Shaw head coach
2015 Shaw wins Pac 12 title. 

Geesh

2015 roster included fifth-year players (Harbaugh recruits) who played significant roles: Kevin Anderson, Cajuste, Harris, Hogan, Wright

9 of the 80+ players on that team were Harbaugh recruits. To your point, however, 4 of them were starters, including the QB. A fifth played a key role as (a very effective) goal-line RB, scoring 11 TDs and denying a Shaw recruit the Voldemort.

Did Shaw effectively ride CMac and a good-enough defense to a Rose Bowl? Yes. But the guy handing and throwing him the ball, and calling all the plays at the LOS, was a Harbaugh recruit.

Revisionist history.  

Recruiting is the problem now, not then. We had top 20 classes following that Rose Bowl in 2016, 2017, 2019, and 2020 (okay, it was #21).  Anyone that expects us to have top 10 classes is delusional.  

It’s also pretty unreasonable to make a point that Hogan was a Harbaugh recruit.  He was never even coached under Harbaugh. He was a guy that exceeded expectations and expanded his potential under Shaw. 

People should be more upset that we did too little with the 2017 class or that we’re struggling to land any top-200 players these days.  But Shaw gets credit for 2015.

He gets  credit for ‘12 and ‘13 also.  People tend to think it’s easy to walk in take over a team thrive with the talent they inherited It’s not. Ask Rod Dohower.

The seachange was not JH  leaving. It was Luck graduating. From that point forward it was a different team without one of the greatest college quarterbacks ever.

This whole discussion of who recruited the 2015 team misses the real issue.  What JH brought to the program was toughness and competitiveness.  The program under Shaw did continue with those traits until over time they have slowly melted away.  Does anyone think we are now one of the toughest programs in the P-12?

And the 2012 season was a total mess.  Shaw picked absolutely the wrong QB.  He didn't pull him until he had three straight three and outs against a CO team that was the worst in the conference.  Hogan played so well that even the most stubborn man in America had to keep him in there.

Luck graduating was not the issue at all.  We were great for 5 years after Luck graduated.  The real issue was Hogan graduating and the slow deterioration of the toughness of the team...

[BigJohn043]

Jaysus. The Harbaugh really did it BS is so old it’s unbelievable. Do you wanna know David Shaw’s  best coaching job, I’ll tell you. 2012. I don’t give a damn who recruited those players. He took a team that was floundering changed quarterbacks and turned it over to a red shirt freshman and they ran the table, won the conference and the Rose Bowl. A team with limited talent offensively and admittedly a very very good defense. Shaw recognized that and played to it. They ran the hell out of the ball controlled  the clock and  grounded out wins. Yeah I remember people complaining at the time that  he took to long to switch to Hogan. Unbelievable.

 Maybe one day David Shaw will get the full credit he deserves. I kind of doubt it. But one can always hope.

---

I Am so happy Harbaugh keep recruiting for Stanford while with the 49ers. 
2011 Shaw head coach
2015 Shaw wins Pac 12 title. 

Geesh

2015 roster included fifth-year players (Harbaugh recruits) who played significant roles: Kevin Anderson, Cajuste, Harris, Hogan, Wright

9 of the 80+ players on that team were Harbaugh recruits. To your point, however, 4 of them were starters, including the QB. A fifth played a key role as (a very effective) goal-line RB, scoring 11 TDs and denying a Shaw recruit the Voldemort.

Did Shaw effectively ride CMac and a good-enough defense to a Rose Bowl? Yes. But the guy handing and throwing him the ball, and calling all the plays at the LOS, was a Harbaugh recruit.

Revisionist history.  

Recruiting is the problem now, not then. We had top 20 classes following that Rose Bowl in 2016, 2017, 2019, and 2020 (okay, it was #21).  Anyone that expects us to have top 10 classes is delusional.  

It’s also pretty unreasonable to make a point that Hogan was a Harbaugh recruit.  He was never even coached under Harbaugh. He was a guy that exceeded expectations and expanded his potential under Shaw. 

People should be more upset that we did too little with the 2017 class or that we’re struggling to land any top-200 players these days.  But Shaw gets credit for 2015.

He gets  credit for ‘12 and ‘13 also.  People tend to think it’s easy to walk in take over a team thrive with the talent they inherited It’s not. Ask Rod Dohower.

The seachange was not JH  leaving. It was Luck graduating. From that point forward it was a different team without one of the greatest college quarterbacks ever.

This whole discussion of who recruited the 2015 team misses the real issue.  What JH brought to the program was toughness and competitiveness.  The program under Shaw did continue with those traits until over time they have slowly melted away.  Does anyone think we are now one of the toughest programs in the P-12?

And the 2012 season was a total mess.  Shaw picked absolutely the wrong QB.  He didn't pull him until he had three straight three and outs against a CO team that was the worst in the conference.  Hogan played so well that even the most stubborn man in America had to keep him in there.

Luck graduating was not the issue at all.  We were great for 5 years after Luck graduated.  The real issue was Hogan graduating and the slow deterioration of the toughness of the team...