[Jamesy]

Do any of you know if this means Shannon Turley is now available?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/BrianHowell33/status/1465009793194606594[/tweet]

No, Turley was hired to replace the s&c coach dorrell fired last year.

[Jamesy]

Do any of you know if this means Shannon Turley is now available?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/BrianHowell33/status/1465009793194606594[/tweet]

No, Turley was hired to replace the s&c coach dorrell fired last year.

[CowboyIndian]

Do any of you know if this means Shannon Turley is now available?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/BrianHowell33/status/1465009793194606594[/tweet]

No, Turley was hired to replace the s&c coach dorrell fired last year.

I wonder what he pulled out of his pants this time.

---

We have a ton of problem areas but one that seems to be getting little noticed is the transfer portal (aka 'free agency'). I don't know the actual numbers but there were at least a few ND players last night whom the announcers described as "a transfer from.....". We will never be able to shore up weak spots or trade up that way. And with the value proposition of a Stanford degree in hand and a year or two of grad school elsewhere paid for, it's going to be really hard to hang onto guys, I'm afraid. Going forward I think this may make us a lot less competitive.

[CowboyIndian]

Do any of you know if this means Shannon Turley is now available?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/BrianHowell33/status/1465009793194606594[/tweet]

No, Turley was hired to replace the s&c coach dorrell fired last year.

I wonder what he pulled out of his pants this time.

---

We have a ton of problem areas but one that seems to be getting little noticed is the transfer portal (aka 'free agency'). I don't know the actual numbers but there were at least a few ND players last night whom the announcers described as "a transfer from.....". We will never be able to shore up weak spots or trade up that way. And with the value proposition of a Stanford degree in hand and a year or two of grad school elsewhere paid for, it's going to be really hard to hang onto guys, I'm afraid. Going forward I think this may make us a lot less competitive.

[CardinalSagehen]

We appeared to have no vertical game. Most of our offensive motion was side-to-side. We seemed to be almost afraid to throw the ball down the field. Even when we were far behind with the clock working against us, Shaw did not appear to be calling plays to win, but rather to keep the score as close as possible.

Back when I watched every game, I didn't like Shaw's play-calling. Nothing I saw last night changed that opinion. Football requires adaptation and evolution. Shaw appears to be of the view "We have a style and that's who we're going to be, no matter what." That's a prescription for eventual failure, if true.

The irony is that the lateral passing game is the evolution.  We used to almost never do that.  Shaw used to use a running game to key off a play action passing game downfield.  My guess is that now that the running game sucks, he is using the sideline passing game as an alternative, but I agree with you, it does not suit McKee or our receivers, who are not especially good shaking off a tackle at the line of scrimmage.

I think the analysis that begins and ends with “Shaw is stubborn and keeps doing the same stuff that doesn’t work” is not supported by the facts.  It really looks like what we used to do is not working any more, and now Shaw is throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks (nothing is).  This is what some people mean when they say we’ve lost our identity.  But it is hard to have an identity when you don’t teach the players one.

BC

100% agree. It's funny to see the continued focus (mostly on social media, not here) on play-calling, unwillingness to the run the ball, lack of identity, etc.  We've tried everything, and nothing works because we're just not very good at the basics right now. This is ultimately more damning and harder to fix than bad play-calling or bad schemes.

None of the spaghetti sticks to the wall when your offensive line can't block. We can't run Power when our guards aren't playing well enough. We can't make the defense bite on play-action when we're unable to run the ball.  We can't create a vertical passing game when we can't protect our QB long enough.

It's a fine line between being a good team and a bad one.  A few key leaders (not just among the coaches, but among the players) can take you there. But it's easier to change some of your coaches than your players, and I believe we have enough talent (at least on offense) to do better.

I can imagine our offense making a leap forward next year, with enough talent at the skill positions and some gelling on the OL.  It's hard to imagine our being good enough on defense next year to win most of our games, but maybe some of the young up-and-comers will surprise us.  

It's demoralizing right now to realize that the over-under on Stanford wins next year rationally might be 3 again.  Shaw needs to make changes to the staff, period.  He can't (or won't) swap out Tavita because that's like pointing the finger at himself, but the entire defensive staff ought to be challenged.  If he's unprepared to do this, he needs to point the finger at himself.  

He who constructed the castle might not be the right one to knock it down and rebuild it.  Shaw needs to grapple with this.  I've been one of his biggest fans and can stay on-board, but only if I observe a significant reckoning with reality during this off-season.

[CardinalSagehen]

We appeared to have no vertical game. Most of our offensive motion was side-to-side. We seemed to be almost afraid to throw the ball down the field. Even when we were far behind with the clock working against us, Shaw did not appear to be calling plays to win, but rather to keep the score as close as possible.

Back when I watched every game, I didn't like Shaw's play-calling. Nothing I saw last night changed that opinion. Football requires adaptation and evolution. Shaw appears to be of the view "We have a style and that's who we're going to be, no matter what." That's a prescription for eventual failure, if true.

The irony is that the lateral passing game is the evolution.  We used to almost never do that.  Shaw used to use a running game to key off a play action passing game downfield.  My guess is that now that the running game sucks, he is using the sideline passing game as an alternative, but I agree with you, it does not suit McKee or our receivers, who are not especially good shaking off a tackle at the line of scrimmage.

I think the analysis that begins and ends with “Shaw is stubborn and keeps doing the same stuff that doesn’t work” is not supported by the facts.  It really looks like what we used to do is not working any more, and now Shaw is throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks (nothing is).  This is what some people mean when they say we’ve lost our identity.  But it is hard to have an identity when you don’t teach the players one.

BC

100% agree. It's funny to see the continued focus (mostly on social media, not here) on play-calling, unwillingness to the run the ball, lack of identity, etc.  We've tried everything, and nothing works because we're just not very good at the basics right now. This is ultimately more damning and harder to fix than bad play-calling or bad schemes.

None of the spaghetti sticks to the wall when your offensive line can't block. We can't run Power when our guards aren't playing well enough. We can't make the defense bite on play-action when we're unable to run the ball.  We can't create a vertical passing game when we can't protect our QB long enough.

It's a fine line between being a good team and a bad one.  A few key leaders (not just among the coaches, but among the players) can take you there. But it's easier to change some of your coaches than your players, and I believe we have enough talent (at least on offense) to do better.

I can imagine our offense making a leap forward next year, with enough talent at the skill positions and some gelling on the OL.  It's hard to imagine our being good enough on defense next year to win most of our games, but maybe some of the young up-and-comers will surprise us.  

It's demoralizing right now to realize that the over-under on Stanford wins next year rationally might be 3 again.  Shaw needs to make changes to the staff, period.  He can't (or won't) swap out Tavita because that's like pointing the finger at himself, but the entire defensive staff ought to be challenged.  If he's unprepared to do this, he needs to point the finger at himself.  

He who constructed the castle might not be the right one to knock it down and rebuild it.  Shaw needs to grapple with this.  I've been one of his biggest fans and can stay on-board, but only if I observe a significant reckoning with reality during this off-season.

[PalmTree]

Do any of you know if this means Shannon Turley is now available?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/BrianHowell33/status/1465009793194606594[/tweet]

IF the story is true - yes, he is available....but to any school EXCEPT Stanford

[PalmTree]

Do any of you know if this means Shannon Turley is now available?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/BrianHowell33/status/1465009793194606594[/tweet]

IF the story is true - yes, he is available....but to any school EXCEPT Stanford

[old spanish trail]

Last night's game was the first I have seen in four years. Compared with teams from the Harbaugh / early-Shaw era, the Cardinal appeared to be smaller, weaker, and slower. The old style of dominating line play on both sides of the ball was gone, as was the gang tackling and punishing running attack. From a distance, I can only guess that player development has suffered even more than recruiting.

We appeared to have no vertical game. Most of our offensive motion was side-to-side. We seemed to be almost afraid to throw the ball down the field. Even when we were far behind with the clock working against us, Shaw did not appear to be calling plays to win, but rather to keep the score as close as possible.

Back when I watched every game, I didn't like Shaw's play-calling. Nothing I saw last night changed that opinion. Football requires adaptation and evolution. Shaw appears to be of the view "We have a style and that's who we're going to be, no matter what." That's a prescription for eventual failure, if true.

I have lived away from California for almost fifteen years. In my experience from outside of the state, Stanford still has a superb reputation for academics, but especially over the past few years, a rapidly diminishing reputation for culture. For the past seven years I have been in Texas. Many people here would never want their children to live in California. Among those who are familiar with Stanford, many dislike what they have heard about the university's obsession with identity politics. If potential recruits, whether as players or coaches, take time to read the Daily over a period of months, they may perceive a student body that is self-absorbed, prickly, and generally at odds with what makes football an attractive sport to young men and coaches.

Two weeks ago, a father told me that his sixteen-year-old daughter had been advised by her college advisor to avoid Stanford, calling it the "epicenter of the woke movement," or words to that effect. If anything like that is a perception shared by potential recruits outside of California, then Stanford recruiters are going to face an enormous challenge in convincing SEC-quality athletes to go west. Without at least a good number of athletes of that caliber, Stanford is not going to return to its glory days.

Argghh. Given Board constraints, all I can say is give me a break and too bad for the daughter. Wouldn't want to be exposed to justice and all that. Also, if they can get admitted, 9 of 10 kids would choose the "happiest campus in the nation" as I recall that poll of 2 or so years ago. We have always had a small issue in the bible belt. Agree with much of your football discussion.

[old spanish trail]

Last night's game was the first I have seen in four years. Compared with teams from the Harbaugh / early-Shaw era, the Cardinal appeared to be smaller, weaker, and slower. The old style of dominating line play on both sides of the ball was gone, as was the gang tackling and punishing running attack. From a distance, I can only guess that player development has suffered even more than recruiting.

We appeared to have no vertical game. Most of our offensive motion was side-to-side. We seemed to be almost afraid to throw the ball down the field. Even when we were far behind with the clock working against us, Shaw did not appear to be calling plays to win, but rather to keep the score as close as possible.

Back when I watched every game, I didn't like Shaw's play-calling. Nothing I saw last night changed that opinion. Football requires adaptation and evolution. Shaw appears to be of the view "We have a style and that's who we're going to be, no matter what." That's a prescription for eventual failure, if true.

I have lived away from California for almost fifteen years. In my experience from outside of the state, Stanford still has a superb reputation for academics, but especially over the past few years, a rapidly diminishing reputation for culture. For the past seven years I have been in Texas. Many people here would never want their children to live in California. Among those who are familiar with Stanford, many dislike what they have heard about the university's obsession with identity politics. If potential recruits, whether as players or coaches, take time to read the Daily over a period of months, they may perceive a student body that is self-absorbed, prickly, and generally at odds with what makes football an attractive sport to young men and coaches.

Two weeks ago, a father told me that his sixteen-year-old daughter had been advised by her college advisor to avoid Stanford, calling it the "epicenter of the woke movement," or words to that effect. If anything like that is a perception shared by potential recruits outside of California, then Stanford recruiters are going to face an enormous challenge in convincing SEC-quality athletes to go west. Without at least a good number of athletes of that caliber, Stanford is not going to return to its glory days.

Argghh. Given Board constraints, all I can say is give me a break and too bad for the daughter. Wouldn't want to be exposed to justice and all that. Also, if they can get admitted, 9 of 10 kids would choose the "happiest campus in the nation" as I recall that poll of 2 or so years ago. We have always had a small issue in the bible belt. Agree with much of your football discussion.

[OutsiderFan]

I have lived away from California for almost fifteen years. In my experience from outside of the state, Stanford still has a superb reputation for academics, but especially over the past few years, a rapidly diminishing reputation for culture. For the past seven years I have been in Texas. Many people here would never want their children to live in California. Among those who are familiar with Stanford, many dislike what they have heard about the university's obsession with identity politics. If potential recruits, whether as players or coaches, take time to read the Daily over a period of months, they may perceive a student body that is self-absorbed, prickly, and generally at odds with what makes football an attractive sport to young men and coaches.

Two weeks ago, a father told me that his sixteen-year-old daughter had been advised by her college advisor to avoid Stanford, calling it the "epicenter of the woke movement," or words to that effect. If anything like that is a perception shared by potential recruits outside of California, then Stanford recruiters are going to face an enormous challenge in convincing SEC-quality athletes to go west. Without at least a good number of athletes of that caliber, Stanford is not going to return to its glory days.

My guess is you are being passive aggressive trying to make Stanford football into an opportunity to make a political statement statement for yourself without actually owning it.  

"Woke" means caring about people other than yourself. If that is too much for prized football recruits and their families, I'd be happy to see Stanford go 0-12 in football every year.

I have every confidence it isn't, and this portion of your post is rubbish.

[OutsiderFan]

I have lived away from California for almost fifteen years. In my experience from outside of the state, Stanford still has a superb reputation for academics, but especially over the past few years, a rapidly diminishing reputation for culture. For the past seven years I have been in Texas. Many people here would never want their children to live in California. Among those who are familiar with Stanford, many dislike what they have heard about the university's obsession with identity politics. If potential recruits, whether as players or coaches, take time to read the Daily over a period of months, they may perceive a student body that is self-absorbed, prickly, and generally at odds with what makes football an attractive sport to young men and coaches.

Two weeks ago, a father told me that his sixteen-year-old daughter had been advised by her college advisor to avoid Stanford, calling it the "epicenter of the woke movement," or words to that effect. If anything like that is a perception shared by potential recruits outside of California, then Stanford recruiters are going to face an enormous challenge in convincing SEC-quality athletes to go west. Without at least a good number of athletes of that caliber, Stanford is not going to return to its glory days.

My guess is you are being passive aggressive trying to make Stanford football into an opportunity to make a political statement statement for yourself without actually owning it.  

"Woke" means caring about people other than yourself. If that is too much for prized football recruits and their families, I'd be happy to see Stanford go 0-12 in football every year.

I have every confidence it isn't, and this portion of your post is rubbish.

[Austroturf]

First the schedule. Don’t renew the Domer series. Why let them come West every year? Let them play Cal or Sac State to impress recruits when they have SC at home.

When we aren't doing well people always suggest dumbing down the schedule. How about coaching up the team. We have shown we can compete with the Domers in the past,; no reason we can't do it again. Plus I would think having them on our schedule is good for us financially, which the fans don't have to worry about but the university does.

I'd also drop ND and replace them with home and home games against other Power Five teams,  I have done the ND trip three times and don't have any interest in going to South Bend again and would be up for roadtrips to other schools.

Did you manage to find takers for all the touchdown cookies?  They looked pretty good.

---

Do any of you know if this means Shannon Turley is now available?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/BrianHowell33/status/1465009793194606594[/tweet]

I have seen no press release on Turley's dismissal from CU.  And he was just hired in January of this year, so it is unlikely that this Tweet refers to Turley.  Here is his bio on the CU website.  https://cubuffs.com/staff-directory/shannon-turley/980

[Austroturf]

First the schedule. Don’t renew the Domer series. Why let them come West every year? Let them play Cal or Sac State to impress recruits when they have SC at home.

When we aren't doing well people always suggest dumbing down the schedule. How about coaching up the team. We have shown we can compete with the Domers in the past,; no reason we can't do it again. Plus I would think having them on our schedule is good for us financially, which the fans don't have to worry about but the university does.

I'd also drop ND and replace them with home and home games against other Power Five teams,  I have done the ND trip three times and don't have any interest in going to South Bend again and would be up for roadtrips to other schools.

Did you manage to find takers for all the touchdown cookies?  They looked pretty good.

---

Do any of you know if this means Shannon Turley is now available?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/BrianHowell33/status/1465009793194606594[/tweet]

I have seen no press release on Turley's dismissal from CU.  And he was just hired in January of this year, so it is unlikely that this Tweet refers to Turley.  Here is his bio on the CU website.  https://cubuffs.com/staff-directory/shannon-turley/980

[BostonCard]

Please remember that if we talk about campus politics to make sure to do so only in the context of the potential impact on recruiting.  Whether “wokeness” is a good thing or a bad thing is beyond the scope of this board.

My guess is that it’s impact on recruiting is minimal.  For every player who rolls their eyes at campus politicos (or is repelled by it), there is probably one who supports it.

Tangentially related, I will note that after Rolovich was fired for not being vaccinated, his team went on to play better under the interim (now signed for five years) coach.

BC

[BostonCard]

Please remember that if we talk about campus politics to make sure to do so only in the context of the potential impact on recruiting.  Whether “wokeness” is a good thing or a bad thing is beyond the scope of this board.

My guess is that it’s impact on recruiting is minimal.  For every player who rolls their eyes at campus politicos (or is repelled by it), there is probably one who supports it.

Tangentially related, I will note that after Rolovich was fired for not being vaccinated, his team went on to play better under the interim (now signed for five years) coach.

BC

[lex24]

I have lived away from California for almost fifteen years. In my experience from outside of the state, Stanford still has a superb reputation for academics, but especially over the past few years, a rapidly diminishing reputation for culture. For the past seven years I have been in Texas. Many people here would never want their children to live in California. Among those who are familiar with Stanford, many dislike what they have heard about the university's obsession with identity politics. If potential recruits, whether as players or coaches, take time to read the Daily over a period of months, they may perceive a student body that is self-absorbed, prickly, and generally at odds with what makes football an attractive sport to young men and coaches.

Two weeks ago, a father told me that his sixteen-year-old daughter had been advised by her college advisor to avoid Stanford, calling it the "epicenter of the woke movement," or words to that effect. If anything like that is a perception shared by potential recruits outside of California, then Stanford recruiters are going to face an enormous challenge in convincing SEC-quality athletes to go west. Without at least a good number of athletes of that caliber, Stanford is not going to return to its glory days.

My guess is you are being passive aggressive trying to make Stanford football into an opportunity to make a political statement statement for yourself without actually owning it.  

"Woke" means caring about people other than yourself. If that is too much for prized football recruits and their families, I'd be happy to see Stanford go 0-12 in football every year.

I have every confidence it isn't, and this portion of your post is rubbish.

“My guess is you are being passive aggressive trying to make Stanford football into an opportunity to make a political statement statement for yourself without actually owning it. “

Yes, you certainly would understand that concept.  

[lex24]

I have lived away from California for almost fifteen years. In my experience from outside of the state, Stanford still has a superb reputation for academics, but especially over the past few years, a rapidly diminishing reputation for culture. For the past seven years I have been in Texas. Many people here would never want their children to live in California. Among those who are familiar with Stanford, many dislike what they have heard about the university's obsession with identity politics. If potential recruits, whether as players or coaches, take time to read the Daily over a period of months, they may perceive a student body that is self-absorbed, prickly, and generally at odds with what makes football an attractive sport to young men and coaches.

Two weeks ago, a father told me that his sixteen-year-old daughter had been advised by her college advisor to avoid Stanford, calling it the "epicenter of the woke movement," or words to that effect. If anything like that is a perception shared by potential recruits outside of California, then Stanford recruiters are going to face an enormous challenge in convincing SEC-quality athletes to go west. Without at least a good number of athletes of that caliber, Stanford is not going to return to its glory days.

My guess is you are being passive aggressive trying to make Stanford football into an opportunity to make a political statement statement for yourself without actually owning it.  

"Woke" means caring about people other than yourself. If that is too much for prized football recruits and their families, I'd be happy to see Stanford go 0-12 in football every year.

I have every confidence it isn't, and this portion of your post is rubbish.

“My guess is you are being passive aggressive trying to make Stanford football into an opportunity to make a political statement statement for yourself without actually owning it. “

Yes, you certainly would understand that concept.  

[Austroturf]

While watching UM vs. Ohio State yesterday, the announcers also commented on the sweeping changes Harbaugh made to his staff following the 2020 season when they finished 2-4 in the Covid-shortened campaign.  I had not been aware of these changes, but thought there was an interesting parallel to Stanford's current situation.  Here is a summary of the changes Harbaugh made (from Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Michi...tball_team):

Coaching changes


On December 22, 2020, Michigan fired defensive coordinator Don Brown after five seasons. Brown was then hired by former Michigan assistant Jedd Fisch as the new defensive coordinator at the University of Arizona on January 6, 2021.

On January 13, 2021, Michigan named former running back Mike Hart as its new running backs coach.

On January 17, 2021, Michigan also announced the hiring of Mike Macdonald as its new defensive coordinator.

Michigan added to their defensive staff on January 20, 2021, announcing the addition of Maurice Linguist as the defensive backs coach and co-defensive coordinator as well as George Helow as the safeties coach.

On January 25, 2021, Michigan finalized their staff by announcing the addition of former player and West Bloomfield High School head coach Ron Bellamy as the wide receivers coach. With this move, Jay Harbaugh moves from running backs coach to tight ends coach and Sherrone Moore shifts from tight ends to offensive line coach replacing Ed Warinner, and adds the title of co-offensive coordinator.

However, more changes came on February 19, 2021, as Brian Jean-Mary left Michigan to become the linebackers coach at Tennessee. On February 22, 2021, Michigan announced the hiring of Baltimore Ravens running backs coach Matt Weiss as the new quarterbacks coach. With the changes, George Helow will move from safeties to replace Jean-Mary as the linebackers coach, and Ron Bellamy will move to safeties coach from the wide receivers position.


An unexpected shakeup came on May 7, 2021 as newly hired cornerbacks coach and co-defensive coordinator Mo Linguist was hired as the head coach at Buffalo to replace Lance Leipold. Michigan moved quickly to replace Linguist, hiring Kentucky assistant coach Steve Clinkscale to become the defensive backs coach and passing game coordinator on May 11.

First of all, many of these changes weren't necessarily made by Harbaugh. Guys left for better/equivalent jobs. There is a lot of churn here. Guys already in the program getting different positions. From the many recent changes I would conclude that maybe it doesn't much matter who was coaching. A change made in January 2021 probably will have somewhat limited effect this year. If one read this list without knowing what team was involved, it sounds most like Arizona.

Just a few comments:

1) I wish the Stanford coaching staff was so good that individual members were poached by other teams.  Yes, Carberry departed for the O-Line position at the Rams last year; but recently, departures of staff for better opportunities have been minimal to zero.  
2) Harbaugh took action, at least on the DC position, which may have set off a domino effect.  Sometimes, it only takes one change to start the churn process.  The point here is that accountability for results is crucial to a winning program.  The results at Stanford right now are abysmal.  If Shaw is not personally held accountable, he needs to fix the issues below him, or he will be next at some future juncture.

[Austroturf]

While watching UM vs. Ohio State yesterday, the announcers also commented on the sweeping changes Harbaugh made to his staff following the 2020 season when they finished 2-4 in the Covid-shortened campaign.  I had not been aware of these changes, but thought there was an interesting parallel to Stanford's current situation.  Here is a summary of the changes Harbaugh made (from Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Michi...tball_team):

Coaching changes


On December 22, 2020, Michigan fired defensive coordinator Don Brown after five seasons. Brown was then hired by former Michigan assistant Jedd Fisch as the new defensive coordinator at the University of Arizona on January 6, 2021.

On January 13, 2021, Michigan named former running back Mike Hart as its new running backs coach.

On January 17, 2021, Michigan also announced the hiring of Mike Macdonald as its new defensive coordinator.

Michigan added to their defensive staff on January 20, 2021, announcing the addition of Maurice Linguist as the defensive backs coach and co-defensive coordinator as well as George Helow as the safeties coach.

On January 25, 2021, Michigan finalized their staff by announcing the addition of former player and West Bloomfield High School head coach Ron Bellamy as the wide receivers coach. With this move, Jay Harbaugh moves from running backs coach to tight ends coach and Sherrone Moore shifts from tight ends to offensive line coach replacing Ed Warinner, and adds the title of co-offensive coordinator.

However, more changes came on February 19, 2021, as Brian Jean-Mary left Michigan to become the linebackers coach at Tennessee. On February 22, 2021, Michigan announced the hiring of Baltimore Ravens running backs coach Matt Weiss as the new quarterbacks coach. With the changes, George Helow will move from safeties to replace Jean-Mary as the linebackers coach, and Ron Bellamy will move to safeties coach from the wide receivers position.


An unexpected shakeup came on May 7, 2021 as newly hired cornerbacks coach and co-defensive coordinator Mo Linguist was hired as the head coach at Buffalo to replace Lance Leipold. Michigan moved quickly to replace Linguist, hiring Kentucky assistant coach Steve Clinkscale to become the defensive backs coach and passing game coordinator on May 11.

First of all, many of these changes weren't necessarily made by Harbaugh. Guys left for better/equivalent jobs. There is a lot of churn here. Guys already in the program getting different positions. From the many recent changes I would conclude that maybe it doesn't much matter who was coaching. A change made in January 2021 probably will have somewhat limited effect this year. If one read this list without knowing what team was involved, it sounds most like Arizona.

Just a few comments:

1) I wish the Stanford coaching staff was so good that individual members were poached by other teams.  Yes, Carberry departed for the O-Line position at the Rams last year; but recently, departures of staff for better opportunities have been minimal to zero.  
2) Harbaugh took action, at least on the DC position, which may have set off a domino effect.  Sometimes, it only takes one change to start the churn process.  The point here is that accountability for results is crucial to a winning program.  The results at Stanford right now are abysmal.  If Shaw is not personally held accountable, he needs to fix the issues below him, or he will be next at some future juncture.

[gailtate]

A once-proud program is dead in the water until Shaw stands down. This is reality, folks, no matter how you feel about it. I don't care about your feelings. I care about Stanford Football -- which, at this moment, is at a historic low. Woeful doesn't begin to describe it. Oh, yes, and today Lincoln Riley is the head coach at...USC. Looks like they're serious about football. Until I see a Harbaugh 2.0 running the show at Stanford--and this guy is out there somewhere--Stanford football remains in a coma.

[gailtate]

A once-proud program is dead in the water until Shaw stands down. This is reality, folks, no matter how you feel about it. I don't care about your feelings. I care about Stanford Football -- which, at this moment, is at a historic low. Woeful doesn't begin to describe it. Oh, yes, and today Lincoln Riley is the head coach at...USC. Looks like they're serious about football. Until I see a Harbaugh 2.0 running the show at Stanford--and this guy is out there somewhere--Stanford football remains in a coma.

[ADPinWDC]

Here's Shaw, post-game, surveying the wreckage of 2021:

“There are some things here that we’ve done extremely well in the past that we need to do better,” coach David Shaw said. “Some things we got to tweak and change. So we’re not going to be stagnant and rest on the things we did in the past. We’re going to get back to work, continue this recruiting process, which has gone extremely well, recruiting the right guys to the right place, and get to the point where we take out the bumps in our road.”  (A.P., last night)

"Tweak and change"?  This guy needs an intervention. Willie, please help. Your son needs some tough love right now.

EXACTLY the impression I had on the Post-ND presser. 
Like he was on Hallucinagens. 

Shaw seems truly oblivious to facing real issues. "This is a really good football team.  Didn't execute as well as we needed to... If we start better and finish games we win more games."
"We practice well; need to convert that to game day performance.". WOW.
If he doesn't change his DefCo, he may not be salvageable.  He seems like a Camp Counselor, not a Football Coach.

---

Here's Shaw, post-game, surveying the wreckage of 2021:

“There are some things here that we’ve done extremely well in the past that we need to do better,” coach David Shaw said. “Some things we got to tweak and change. So we’re not going to be stagnant and rest on the things we did in the past. We’re going to get back to work, continue this recruiting process, which has gone extremely well, recruiting the right guys to the right place, and get to the point where we take out the bumps in our road.”  (A.P., last night)

"Tweak and change"?  This guy needs an intervention. Willie, please help. Your son needs some tough love right now.

EXACTLY the impression I had on the Post-ND presser. 
Like he was on Hallucinagens. 

Shaw seems truly oblivious to facing real issues. "This is a really good football team.  Didn't execute as well as we needed to... If we start better and finish games we win more games."
"We practice well; need to convert that to game day performance.". WOW.
If he doesn't change his DefCo, he may not be salvageable.  He seems like a Camp Counselor, not a Football Coach.

Presser:. https://youtu.be/g0WoIWwYDHU

[ADPinWDC]

Here's Shaw, post-game, surveying the wreckage of 2021:

“There are some things here that we’ve done extremely well in the past that we need to do better,” coach David Shaw said. “Some things we got to tweak and change. So we’re not going to be stagnant and rest on the things we did in the past. We’re going to get back to work, continue this recruiting process, which has gone extremely well, recruiting the right guys to the right place, and get to the point where we take out the bumps in our road.”  (A.P., last night)

"Tweak and change"?  This guy needs an intervention. Willie, please help. Your son needs some tough love right now.

EXACTLY the impression I had on the Post-ND presser. 
Like he was on Hallucinagens. 

Shaw seems truly oblivious to facing real issues. "This is a really good football team.  Didn't execute as well as we needed to... If we start better and finish games we win more games."
"We practice well; need to convert that to game day performance.". WOW.
If he doesn't change his DefCo, he may not be salvageable.  He seems like a Camp Counselor, not a Football Coach.

---

Here's Shaw, post-game, surveying the wreckage of 2021:

“There are some things here that we’ve done extremely well in the past that we need to do better,” coach David Shaw said. “Some things we got to tweak and change. So we’re not going to be stagnant and rest on the things we did in the past. We’re going to get back to work, continue this recruiting process, which has gone extremely well, recruiting the right guys to the right place, and get to the point where we take out the bumps in our road.”  (A.P., last night)

"Tweak and change"?  This guy needs an intervention. Willie, please help. Your son needs some tough love right now.

EXACTLY the impression I had on the Post-ND presser. 
Like he was on Hallucinagens. 

Shaw seems truly oblivious to facing real issues. "This is a really good football team.  Didn't execute as well as we needed to... If we start better and finish games we win more games."
"We practice well; need to convert that to game day performance.". WOW.
If he doesn't change his DefCo, he may not be salvageable.  He seems like a Camp Counselor, not a Football Coach.

Presser:. https://youtu.be/g0WoIWwYDHU

[teejers1]

A once-proud program is dead in the water until Shaw stands down. This is reality, folks, no matter how you feel about it. I don't care about your feelings. I care about Stanford Football -- which, at this moment, is at a historic low. Woeful doesn't begin to describe it.  Oh, yes, and today Lincoln Riley is the head coach at...USC. Looks like they're serious about football. Until I see a Harbaugh 2.0 running the show at Stanford--and this guy is out there somewhere--Stanford football remains in a coma.

This is true, even if many people here (and the powers-that-be) want to close their eyes, cover ears, and yell "NA NA NA" to make the obvious less clear.

But to put it most fundamentally, without a change at the head coaching position, Stanford football will never regain what is the first ingredient for a rebuild:  hope.

[teejers1]

A once-proud program is dead in the water until Shaw stands down. This is reality, folks, no matter how you feel about it. I don't care about your feelings. I care about Stanford Football -- which, at this moment, is at a historic low. Woeful doesn't begin to describe it.  Oh, yes, and today Lincoln Riley is the head coach at...USC. Looks like they're serious about football. Until I see a Harbaugh 2.0 running the show at Stanford--and this guy is out there somewhere--Stanford football remains in a coma.

This is true, even if many people here (and the powers-that-be) want to close their eyes, cover ears, and yell "NA NA NA" to make the obvious less clear.

But to put it most fundamentally, without a change at the head coaching position, Stanford football will never regain what is the first ingredient for a rebuild:  hope.

[BostonCard]

Here's Shaw, post-game, surveying the wreckage of 2021:

“There are some things here that we’ve done extremely well in the past that we need to do better,” coach David Shaw said. “Some things we got to tweak and change. So we’re not going to be stagnant and rest on the things we did in the past. We’re going to get back to work, continue this recruiting process, which has gone extremely well, recruiting the right guys to the right place, and get to the point where we take out the bumps in our road.”  (A.P., last night)

"Tweak and change"?  This guy needs an intervention. Willie, please help. Your son needs some tough love right now.

EXACTLY the impression I had on the Post-ND presser. 
Like he was on Hallucinagens. 

Shaw seems truly oblivious to facing real issues. "This is a really good football team.  Didn't execute as well as we needed to... If we start better and finish games we win more games."
"We practice well; need to convert that to game day performance.". WOW.
If he doesn't change his DefCo, he may not be salvageable.  He seems like a Camp Counselor, not a Football Coach.

---

Here's Shaw, post-game, surveying the wreckage of 2021:

“There are some things here that we’ve done extremely well in the past that we need to do better,” coach David Shaw said. “Some things we got to tweak and change. So we’re not going to be stagnant and rest on the things we did in the past. We’re going to get back to work, continue this recruiting process, which has gone extremely well, recruiting the right guys to the right place, and get to the point where we take out the bumps in our road.”  (A.P., last night)

"Tweak and change"?  This guy needs an intervention. Willie, please help. Your son needs some tough love right now.

EXACTLY the impression I had on the Post-ND presser. 
Like he was on Hallucinagens. 

Shaw seems truly oblivious to facing real issues. "This is a really good football team.  Didn't execute as well as we needed to... If we start better and finish games we win more games."
"We practice well; need to convert that to game day performance.". WOW.
If he doesn't change his DefCo, he may not be salvageable.  He seems like a Camp Counselor, not a Football Coach.

Presser:. https://youtu.be/g0WoIWwYDHU

I will go on this like a broken record.  Shaw Might or might not do anything after the season; I don’t have any particular insight into the staff any more. For a lot of reasons, I hope he does. But even if he has already decided to let go of all of his assistants, I would never expect him to hint at it at a press conference. It’s just not what he does. It’s not what he will ever do.

BC

[BostonCard]

Here's Shaw, post-game, surveying the wreckage of 2021:

“There are some things here that we’ve done extremely well in the past that we need to do better,” coach David Shaw said. “Some things we got to tweak and change. So we’re not going to be stagnant and rest on the things we did in the past. We’re going to get back to work, continue this recruiting process, which has gone extremely well, recruiting the right guys to the right place, and get to the point where we take out the bumps in our road.”  (A.P., last night)

"Tweak and change"?  This guy needs an intervention. Willie, please help. Your son needs some tough love right now.

EXACTLY the impression I had on the Post-ND presser. 
Like he was on Hallucinagens. 

Shaw seems truly oblivious to facing real issues. "This is a really good football team.  Didn't execute as well as we needed to... If we start better and finish games we win more games."
"We practice well; need to convert that to game day performance.". WOW.
If he doesn't change his DefCo, he may not be salvageable.  He seems like a Camp Counselor, not a Football Coach.

---

Here's Shaw, post-game, surveying the wreckage of 2021:

“There are some things here that we’ve done extremely well in the past that we need to do better,” coach David Shaw said. “Some things we got to tweak and change. So we’re not going to be stagnant and rest on the things we did in the past. We’re going to get back to work, continue this recruiting process, which has gone extremely well, recruiting the right guys to the right place, and get to the point where we take out the bumps in our road.”  (A.P., last night)

"Tweak and change"?  This guy needs an intervention. Willie, please help. Your son needs some tough love right now.

EXACTLY the impression I had on the Post-ND presser. 
Like he was on Hallucinagens. 

Shaw seems truly oblivious to facing real issues. "This is a really good football team.  Didn't execute as well as we needed to... If we start better and finish games we win more games."
"We practice well; need to convert that to game day performance.". WOW.
If he doesn't change his DefCo, he may not be salvageable.  He seems like a Camp Counselor, not a Football Coach.

Presser:. https://youtu.be/g0WoIWwYDHU

I will go on this like a broken record.  Shaw Might or might not do anything after the season; I don’t have any particular insight into the staff any more. For a lot of reasons, I hope he does. But even if he has already decided to let go of all of his assistants, I would never expect him to hint at it at a press conference. It’s just not what he does. It’s not what he will ever do.

BC

[Giants]

A once-proud program is dead in the water until Shaw stands down. This is reality, folks, no matter how you feel about it. I don't care about your feelings. I care about Stanford Football -- which, at this moment, is at a historic low. Woeful doesn't begin to describe it.  Oh, yes, and today Lincoln Riley is the head coach at...USC. Looks like they're serious about football. Until I see a Harbaugh 2.0 running the show at Stanford--and this guy is out there somewhere--Stanford football remains in a coma.

While I appreciate your frustration, I do want to caution against using terms like “historic low”.  Stanford football is NOT at a historic low.

For example - 

1958-1960 5-25 (.167) 0-3 v. Cal
2019-2021 11-19 (.367) 1-2 v. Cal 

Using a three year run as the measurement tool of choice, I think it is fair to say the 1958-60 was worse than 2019-21. 

As I have suggested before, a pruning of the staff should help turn things around.

[Giants]

A once-proud program is dead in the water until Shaw stands down. This is reality, folks, no matter how you feel about it. I don't care about your feelings. I care about Stanford Football -- which, at this moment, is at a historic low. Woeful doesn't begin to describe it.  Oh, yes, and today Lincoln Riley is the head coach at...USC. Looks like they're serious about football. Until I see a Harbaugh 2.0 running the show at Stanford--and this guy is out there somewhere--Stanford football remains in a coma.

While I appreciate your frustration, I do want to caution against using terms like “historic low”.  Stanford football is NOT at a historic low.

For example - 

1958-1960 5-25 (.167) 0-3 v. Cal
2019-2021 11-19 (.367) 1-2 v. Cal 

Using a three year run as the measurement tool of choice, I think it is fair to say the 1958-60 was worse than 2019-21. 

As I have suggested before, a pruning of the staff should help turn things around.

[teejers1]

A once-proud program is dead in the water until Shaw stands down. This is reality, folks, no matter how you feel about it. I don't care about your feelings. I care about Stanford Football -- which, at this moment, is at a historic low. Woeful doesn't begin to describe it.  Oh, yes, and today Lincoln Riley is the head coach at...USC. Looks like they're serious about football. Until I see a Harbaugh 2.0 running the show at Stanford--and this guy is out there somewhere--Stanford football remains in a coma.

While I appreciate your frustration, I do want to caution against using terms like “historic low”.  Stanford football is NOT at a historic low.

For example - 

1958-1960 5-25 (.167) 0-3 v. Cal
2019-2021 11-19 (.367) 1-2 v. Cal 

Using a three year run as the measurement tool of choice, I think it is fair to say the 1958-60 was worse than 2019-21. 

As I have suggested before, a pruning of the staff should help turn things around.

1.  Does it bother you at all that you had to go back to 1958-60 for an obviously worse (W/L record) than the last 3 seasons?

2.  And I submit W/L record is not best indicator or whether team is competitive or not.  A bunch of close games is way more hopeful than what we've witnessed, for example, in last 3 home games.  I also think YPG allowed versus YPG gained it a good indicator of field dominance.  Sagarin rating is pretty good in terms of overall end-of-season rating.

I don't have time or interest in doing that for your 3-year counter on historically worst stretch.  I'm satisfied relying on the fact-based poster on TOS who has looked at the numbers over the last 20-30 years and concluded that we've never been this outclassed on the gridiron.  From a purely gut take/eye test, I agree.  Buddy's years were frustrating (but the D was actually pretty good).  Wlat, the ultimate surrender monkey, was probably worse from a "feel" standpoint (because that hire was indefensible), but I don't think even his teams were as regularly outclassed as what we've seen this season.  (Remember, we were one missed call on an INT by Sanchez(?) against UCD from going bowling in Wlat's penultimate season (iirc)).

[teejers1]

A once-proud program is dead in the water until Shaw stands down. This is reality, folks, no matter how you feel about it. I don't care about your feelings. I care about Stanford Football -- which, at this moment, is at a historic low. Woeful doesn't begin to describe it.  Oh, yes, and today Lincoln Riley is the head coach at...USC. Looks like they're serious about football. Until I see a Harbaugh 2.0 running the show at Stanford--and this guy is out there somewhere--Stanford football remains in a coma.

While I appreciate your frustration, I do want to caution against using terms like “historic low”.  Stanford football is NOT at a historic low.

For example - 

1958-1960 5-25 (.167) 0-3 v. Cal
2019-2021 11-19 (.367) 1-2 v. Cal 

Using a three year run as the measurement tool of choice, I think it is fair to say the 1958-60 was worse than 2019-21. 

As I have suggested before, a pruning of the staff should help turn things around.

1.  Does it bother you at all that you had to go back to 1958-60 for an obviously worse (W/L record) than the last 3 seasons?

2.  And I submit W/L record is not best indicator or whether team is competitive or not.  A bunch of close games is way more hopeful than what we've witnessed, for example, in last 3 home games.  I also think YPG allowed versus YPG gained it a good indicator of field dominance.  Sagarin rating is pretty good in terms of overall end-of-season rating.

I don't have time or interest in doing that for your 3-year counter on historically worst stretch.  I'm satisfied relying on the fact-based poster on TOS who has looked at the numbers over the last 20-30 years and concluded that we've never been this outclassed on the gridiron.  From a purely gut take/eye test, I agree.  Buddy's years were frustrating (but the D was actually pretty good).  Wlat, the ultimate surrender monkey, was probably worse from a "feel" standpoint (because that hire was indefensible), but I don't think even his teams were as regularly outclassed as what we've seen this season.  (Remember, we were one missed call on an INT by Sanchez(?) against UCD from going bowling in Wlat's penultimate season (iirc)).

[Embo]

A once-proud program is dead in the water until Shaw stands down. This is reality, folks, no matter how you feel about it. I don't care about your feelings. I care about Stanford Football -- which, at this moment, is at a historic low. Woeful doesn't begin to describe it.  Oh, yes, and today Lincoln Riley is the head coach at...USC. Looks like they're serious about football. Until I see a Harbaugh 2.0 running the show at Stanford--and this guy is out there somewhere--Stanford football remains in a coma.

This is true, even if many people here (and the powers-that-be) want to close their eyes, cover ears, and yell "NA NA NA" to make the obvious less clear.

But to put it most fundamentally, without a change at the head coaching position, Stanford football will never regain what is the first ingredient for a rebuild:  hope.

Without significant changes, there will be no hope.
For any out there with "Wait 'til next year" enthusiasm, let me submit for your examination the 2022 schedule:

Out of conference opponents
Colgate, at home
Notre Dame, away
BYU, at home

Conference opponents at home
USC
ASU
Oregon State
WSU

Conference opponents on the road
Oregon
UCLA
Washington
Utah
Cal

We miss Colorado and Arizona yet again.
I count one game where Stanford will be favored.  A 1-11 record for 2022 is not off the table.

[Embo]

A once-proud program is dead in the water until Shaw stands down. This is reality, folks, no matter how you feel about it. I don't care about your feelings. I care about Stanford Football -- which, at this moment, is at a historic low. Woeful doesn't begin to describe it.  Oh, yes, and today Lincoln Riley is the head coach at...USC. Looks like they're serious about football. Until I see a Harbaugh 2.0 running the show at Stanford--and this guy is out there somewhere--Stanford football remains in a coma.

This is true, even if many people here (and the powers-that-be) want to close their eyes, cover ears, and yell "NA NA NA" to make the obvious less clear.

But to put it most fundamentally, without a change at the head coaching position, Stanford football will never regain what is the first ingredient for a rebuild:  hope.

Without significant changes, there will be no hope.
For any out there with "Wait 'til next year" enthusiasm, let me submit for your examination the 2022 schedule:

Out of conference opponents
Colgate, at home
Notre Dame, away
BYU, at home

Conference opponents at home
USC
ASU
Oregon State
WSU

Conference opponents on the road
Oregon
UCLA
Washington
Utah
Cal

We miss Colorado and Arizona yet again.
I count one game where Stanford will be favored.  A 1-11 record for 2022 is not off the table.

[BostonCard]

You only need to go back to 2004 to 2006 for a worse three year stretch.

10-24 (.294), 7-18 (.280) in conference, 0-3 against Cal.

But, as mentioned, if you are trying to find our historic nadir, then 58-60 was worse than the Buddy/Wlat years.

BC

[BostonCard]

You only need to go back to 2004 to 2006 for a worse three year stretch.

10-24 (.294), 7-18 (.280) in conference, 0-3 against Cal.

But, as mentioned, if you are trying to find our historic nadir, then 58-60 was worse than the Buddy/Wlat years.

BC

[Spiny_Norman]

But to put it most fundamentally, without a change at the head coaching position, Stanford football will never regain what is the first ingredient for a rebuild:  hope.

Teejers, I'll slightly amend your statement to say that without a change at the AD position,  . . . .

I have no confidence in Bernard or his bosses to force any meaningful change.

[Spiny_Norman]

But to put it most fundamentally, without a change at the head coaching position, Stanford football will never regain what is the first ingredient for a rebuild:  hope.

Teejers, I'll slightly amend your statement to say that without a change at the AD position,  . . . .

I have no confidence in Bernard or his bosses to force any meaningful change.

[McKenwood]

But to put it most fundamentally, without a change at the head coaching position, Stanford football will never regain what is the first ingredient for a rebuild:  hope.

Teejers, I'll slightly amend your statement to say that without a change at the AD position,  . . . .

I have no confidence in Bernard or his bosses to force any meaningful change.

Over the course of the past couple of weeks I went to my reunion and met with some of my late father's colleagues (he was a long-time professor at Stanford). Based on these conversations Stanford is in a remarkably bad spot from a leadership standpoint. So as much as we think Muir/Shaw are big problems, President Tessier-Lavigne and Provost Drell are the worst leadership combination that Stanford has ever had. Gerhard Caspar was over his head but he had Provost Rice to keep him anchored in reality.

Based on this information I wouldn't expect any change at the AD level even though any objective review would have Muir gone by the end of the year. Without any accountability at the AD level the only (vain) hope is that Shaw does the right thing by resigning (the Chris Peterson model) or fires the bulk of his staff and replaces himself as the offensive guru. My take is that Shaw is too proud to do the right thing so Stanford football will be in the toilet for the forseeable future.

[McKenwood]

But to put it most fundamentally, without a change at the head coaching position, Stanford football will never regain what is the first ingredient for a rebuild:  hope.

Teejers, I'll slightly amend your statement to say that without a change at the AD position,  . . . .

I have no confidence in Bernard or his bosses to force any meaningful change.

Over the course of the past couple of weeks I went to my reunion and met with some of my late father's colleagues (he was a long-time professor at Stanford). Based on these conversations Stanford is in a remarkably bad spot from a leadership standpoint. So as much as we think Muir/Shaw are big problems, President Tessier-Lavigne and Provost Drell are the worst leadership combination that Stanford has ever had. Gerhard Caspar was over his head but he had Provost Rice to keep him anchored in reality.

Based on this information I wouldn't expect any change at the AD level even though any objective review would have Muir gone by the end of the year. Without any accountability at the AD level the only (vain) hope is that Shaw does the right thing by resigning (the Chris Peterson model) or fires the bulk of his staff and replaces himself as the offensive guru. My take is that Shaw is too proud to do the right thing so Stanford football will be in the toilet for the forseeable future.