[GaryT]

In a weird twist on the 40-year decision, it took 40 years to get my first NIL deal. Much as I had planned upon deciding to matriculate on the Farm. When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. You've Gotta Have Heart

[GaryT]

In a weird twist on the 40-year decision, it took 40 years to get my first NIL deal. Much as I had planned upon deciding to matriculate on the Farm. When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. You've Gotta Have Heart

[old spanish trail]

In a weird twist on the 40-year decision, it took 40 years to get my first NIL deal. Much as I had planned upon deciding to matriculate on the Farm. When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. You've Gotta Have Heart

Excellent.. and funny. You go, Gary.

[old spanish trail]

In a weird twist on the 40-year decision, it took 40 years to get my first NIL deal. Much as I had planned upon deciding to matriculate on the Farm. When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. You've Gotta Have Heart

Excellent.. and funny. You go, Gary.

[ca245]

Not exactly NIL, but now the Ivy League is being sued over its policy of not awarding athletic scholarships.
Ivy League Lawsuit

[ca245]

Not exactly NIL, but now the Ivy League is being sued over its policy of not awarding athletic scholarships.
Ivy League Lawsuit

[dabigv13]

Not a lawyer, but seems to be a pretty absurd lawsuit. Nobody forced the plaintiffs to go to Brown to play basketball.

[dabigv13]

Not a lawyer, but seems to be a pretty absurd lawsuit. Nobody forced the plaintiffs to go to Brown to play basketball.

[ca245]

Not an anti-trust lawyer, but here's what I think the plaintiffs' strategy is: Since the Ivy League is such a minuscule group among all the other D1 schools that do offer athletic scholarships, they can't argue that the Ivy League has significant market power in that market. They are trying to define the relevant market as a much smaller one consisting of the Ivy League and "elite" schools like Stanford and Duke, of which the Ivy League is a much bigger component and therefore has a lot of market power.

[ca245]

Not an anti-trust lawyer, but here's what I think the plaintiffs' strategy is: Since the Ivy League is such a minuscule group among all the other D1 schools that do offer athletic scholarships, they can't argue that the Ivy League has significant market power in that market. They are trying to define the relevant market as a much smaller one consisting of the Ivy League and "elite" schools like Stanford and Duke, of which the Ivy League is a much bigger component and therefore has a lot of market power.

[dabigv13]

Here's some more from the Yale paper and the Philly Inquirer which touches on the plaintiff's legal arguments. These articles make clear this sprang from Alston, and the plaintiff's lawyers have been planning this since.

https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2023/03/0...olarships/

https://www.inquirer.com/college-sports/...30307.html

There is also a Law360 article and Bloomberg article which I expect may have some more of the legal background, but require subscriptions.

Seems like a big leap from Alston to this. If they had scholarship opportunities outside of Brown, they could have just gone elsewhere. So the harm the plaintiffs have suffered is they can't go to both an elite school, and also get compensated, seems like a stretch to me.

[dabigv13]

Here's some more from the Yale paper and the Philly Inquirer which touches on the plaintiff's legal arguments. These articles make clear this sprang from Alston, and the plaintiff's lawyers have been planning this since.

https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2023/03/0...olarships/

https://www.inquirer.com/college-sports/...30307.html

There is also a Law360 article and Bloomberg article which I expect may have some more of the legal background, but require subscriptions.

Seems like a big leap from Alston to this. If they had scholarship opportunities outside of Brown, they could have just gone elsewhere. So the harm the plaintiffs have suffered is they can't go to both an elite school, and also get compensated, seems like a stretch to me.

[BostonCard]

For the Ivy League the eventual result would be that they would give up recruited athletics, which wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

While it would make me sad, I legit wonder if the destruction of collegiate athletics and complete separation of colleges from athletics would be so bad.  It will have been fun while it lasted.

BC

[BostonCard]

For the Ivy League the eventual result would be that they would give up recruited athletics, which wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

While it would make me sad, I legit wonder if the destruction of collegiate athletics and complete separation of colleges from athletics would be so bad.  It will have been fun while it lasted.

BC

[Mick]

For the Ivy League the eventual result would be that they would give up recruited athletics, which wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

While it would make me sad, I legit wonder if the destruction of collegiate athletics and complete separation of colleges from athletics would be so bad.  It will have been fun while it lasted.

BC

I agree completely. I think within a few years, no one would miss it.

[Mick]

For the Ivy League the eventual result would be that they would give up recruited athletics, which wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

While it would make me sad, I legit wonder if the destruction of collegiate athletics and complete separation of colleges from athletics would be so bad.  It will have been fun while it lasted.

BC

I agree completely. I think within a few years, no one would miss it.

[ca245]

For the Ivy League the eventual result would be that they would give up recruited athletics, which wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

While it would make me sad, I legit wonder if the destruction of collegiate athletics and complete separation of colleges from athletics would be so bad.  It will have been fun while it lasted.

BC

I agree completely. I think within a few years, no one would miss it.

Europe has some great universities, none of which have varsity sports teams.

[ca245]

For the Ivy League the eventual result would be that they would give up recruited athletics, which wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

While it would make me sad, I legit wonder if the destruction of collegiate athletics and complete separation of colleges from athletics would be so bad.  It will have been fun while it lasted.

BC

I agree completely. I think within a few years, no one would miss it.

Europe has some great universities, none of which have varsity sports teams.

[CTcard]

For the Ivy League the eventual result would be that they would give up recruited athletics, which wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

While it would make me sad, I legit wonder if the destruction of collegiate athletics and complete separation of colleges from athletics would be so bad.  It will have been fun while it lasted.

BC

It seems that to a large extent college sports are running into the problem that sports leagues in general don't fit into the business/legal system we have created. Almost by definition the creation of a league among separate entities violates antitrust laws. To a large extent the pro leagues can exist because of collective bargaining agreements with unions. I am sort of surprised there aren't more cases where the league itself is the corporate entity, but that has its own issues. 

The lawsuit appears to claim that universities are required to provide athletic scholarships ... to every student that competes in a sports league?
It's not clear to me what would limit the claim. Athletes in what sports would get compensation? What institutions? Is a school allowed to choose to compete in Division 2 or 3 [which also limits scholarships to either partial (2) or none (3)]? For that matter, NCAA limits on number of scholarships per sport appear to be an antitrust violation.

Most universities would be way better off financially to simply get rid of all intercollegiate sports. UConn for example, loses over $50 million per year on intercollegiate athletics. Universities keep at it because of intense pressure from legislators (state schools), alumni (all), and an actual belief that such activities are good for students. I am not really worried about the Ivy League, they're wealthy institutions. But unless we develop separate rules for the wealthy, the trouble most universities are in will continue to escalate. Don't know where the breaking point is.

[CTcard]

For the Ivy League the eventual result would be that they would give up recruited athletics, which wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

While it would make me sad, I legit wonder if the destruction of collegiate athletics and complete separation of colleges from athletics would be so bad.  It will have been fun while it lasted.

BC

It seems that to a large extent college sports are running into the problem that sports leagues in general don't fit into the business/legal system we have created. Almost by definition the creation of a league among separate entities violates antitrust laws. To a large extent the pro leagues can exist because of collective bargaining agreements with unions. I am sort of surprised there aren't more cases where the league itself is the corporate entity, but that has its own issues. 

The lawsuit appears to claim that universities are required to provide athletic scholarships ... to every student that competes in a sports league?
It's not clear to me what would limit the claim. Athletes in what sports would get compensation? What institutions? Is a school allowed to choose to compete in Division 2 or 3 [which also limits scholarships to either partial (2) or none (3)]? For that matter, NCAA limits on number of scholarships per sport appear to be an antitrust violation.

Most universities would be way better off financially to simply get rid of all intercollegiate sports. UConn for example, loses over $50 million per year on intercollegiate athletics. Universities keep at it because of intense pressure from legislators (state schools), alumni (all), and an actual belief that such activities are good for students. I am not really worried about the Ivy League, they're wealthy institutions. But unless we develop separate rules for the wealthy, the trouble most universities are in will continue to escalate. Don't know where the breaking point is.

[BostonCard]

Great thoughts, CTCard.  I really wonder whether this is a case where "money poisons everything".  Can't really blame fans for wanting to watch their teams compete and being willing to pay money to do so.  Hard to blame ESPN for trying to televise games, given the demand that exists.  Hard to blame the conferences for taking the TV money and hard to blame the athletes for wanting a piece of the pie.

And yet, this is why we can't have nice things.  At some point, the NCAA, conferences, and schools probably should have said "no", and that athlete welfare considerations should have been more important than marginal TV money, but in the real world, I think that is a naive wish.

BC

[BostonCard]

Great thoughts, CTCard.  I really wonder whether this is a case where "money poisons everything".  Can't really blame fans for wanting to watch their teams compete and being willing to pay money to do so.  Hard to blame ESPN for trying to televise games, given the demand that exists.  Hard to blame the conferences for taking the TV money and hard to blame the athletes for wanting a piece of the pie.

And yet, this is why we can't have nice things.  At some point, the NCAA, conferences, and schools probably should have said "no", and that athlete welfare considerations should have been more important than marginal TV money, but in the real world, I think that is a naive wish.

BC