WBB the All Pac 12 team
02-28-2023, 10:53 AM
LOL, you just beat me to it, Bob!
(02-28-2023, 10:49 AM)BobK Wrote: Brink, Jones add Jump
Brink Defensive POY
https://pac-12.com/article/2023/02/28/20...erformance
LOL, you just beat me to it, Bob!
(02-28-2023, 10:49 AM)BobK Wrote: Brink, Jones add Jump
Brink Defensive POY
https://pac-12.com/article/2023/02/28/20...erformance
02-28-2023, 11:22 AM
Congrats to our group - Brink, Jones, Jump, Betts, and Lepolo. Pili was POY seems fine to me, as does Roberts for COY. Some of the all-conference choices are...interesting. Three from USC? Beers is good but to me she didn't stand out that much to be given quite so many honors on a team that did as poorly as OSU.
Congrats to our group - Brink, Jones, Jump, Betts, and Lepolo. Pili was POY seems fine to me, as does Roberts for COY. Some of the all-conference choices are...interesting. Three from USC? Beers is good but to me she didn't stand out that much to be given quite so many honors on a team that did as poorly as OSU.
And shocking to see how far Oregon has fallen with these selections. And not a single player from a Washington team that beat us. They are, however, on the upswing I think, with a number of honorable mentions.
02-28-2023, 12:14 PM
Pili , Roberts and Beers would be my choices
15 is always too many this I guess they get to three usc players
15 is always too many this I guess they get to three usc players
02-28-2023, 01:28 PM
I also aggree that Beers should not have gotten Fr. POY or 6th player. Lots of potential better selections for 6th player and I thought Van Slooten and Londyn Jones were better frosh, and I would give the edge to Jones who showed she could take over games with both her O and D. Beers had some bad outings and limited ability all around.
I also don't agree with Pili over Brink. Pili averaged more points, but in context, Utah had a much more wide open offense with a number of top 3 point shooters. So opposing could not double and triple team her like they did with Brink. Brink almost is always mobbed and Pili much less so. Brink also almost had twice as many rebounds as Pili. Brink's selection as D POY is testament to her being all around the best. Although I did not check, but I suspect Pili played significant more minutes than Cam allowing her to score more due to Cam's fouls. Pili better in scoring and 3 pt shooting, Brink better in rebounding and blocked shots, but scoring difference not as different as Cam's margin in rebounding and blocks. Besides stats, my eye test is that despite Pili being a terrific player, if I'm an opposing coach, I owuld much rather face her than Brink in the post. Brink as we saw often can take over a game on both ends of the court - an din limited minutes.
I also don't agree with Pili over Brink. Pili averaged more points, but in context, Utah had a much more wide open offense with a number of top 3 point shooters. So opposing could not double and triple team her like they did with Brink. Brink almost is always mobbed and Pili much less so. Brink also almost had twice as many rebounds as Pili. Brink's selection as D POY is testament to her being all around the best. Although I did not check, but I suspect Pili played significant more minutes than Cam allowing her to score more due to Cam's fouls. Pili better in scoring and 3 pt shooting, Brink better in rebounding and blocked shots, but scoring difference not as different as Cam's margin in rebounding and blocks. Besides stats, my eye test is that despite Pili being a terrific player, if I'm an opposing coach, I owuld much rather face her than Brink in the post. Brink as we saw often can take over a game on both ends of the court - an din limited minutes.
I also aggree that Beers should not have gotten Fr. POY or 6th player. Lots of potential better selections for 6th player and I thought Van Slooten and Londyn Jones were better frosh, and I would give the edge to Jones who showed she could take over games with both her O and D. Beers had some bad outings and limited ability all around.
I also don't agree with Pili over Brink. Pili averaged more points, but in context, Utah had a much more wide open offense with a number of top 3 point shooters. So opposing could not double and triple team her like they did with Brink. Brink almost is always mobbed and Pili much less so. Brink also almost had twice as many rebounds as Pili. Brink's selection as D POY is testament to her being all around the best. Although I did not check, but I suspect Pili played significant more minutes than Cam allowing her to score more due to Cam's fouls. Pili better in scoring and 3 pt shooting, Brink better in rebounding and blocked shots, but scoring difference not as different as Cam's margin in rebounding and blocks. Besides stats, my eye test is that despite Pili being a terrific player, if I'm an opposing coach, I owuld much rather face her than Brink in the post. Brink as we saw often can take over a game on both ends of the court - an din limited minutes.
I also don't agree with Pili over Brink. Pili averaged more points, but in context, Utah had a much more wide open offense with a number of top 3 point shooters. So opposing could not double and triple team her like they did with Brink. Brink almost is always mobbed and Pili much less so. Brink also almost had twice as many rebounds as Pili. Brink's selection as D POY is testament to her being all around the best. Although I did not check, but I suspect Pili played significant more minutes than Cam allowing her to score more due to Cam's fouls. Pili better in scoring and 3 pt shooting, Brink better in rebounding and blocked shots, but scoring difference not as different as Cam's margin in rebounding and blocks. Besides stats, my eye test is that despite Pili being a terrific player, if I'm an opposing coach, I owuld much rather face her than Brink in the post. Brink as we saw often can take over a game on both ends of the court - an din limited minutes.
02-28-2023, 02:39 PM
(02-28-2023, 01:28 PM)treetop11 Wrote: I also aggree that Beers should not have gotten Fr. POY or 6th player. Lots of potential better selections for 6th player and I thought Van Slooten and Londyn Jones were better frosh, and I would give the edge to Jones who showed she could take over games with both her O and D. Beers had some bad outings and limited ability all around.
I also don't agree with Pili over Brink. Pili averaged more points, but in context, Utah had a much more wide open offense with a number of top 3 point shooters. So opposing could not double and triple team her like they did with Brink. Brink almost is always mobbed and Pili much less so. Brink also almost had twice as many rebounds as Pili. Brink's selection as D POY is testament to her being all around the best. Although I did not check, but I suspect Pili played significant more minutes than Cam allowing her to score more due to Cam's fouls. Pili better in scoring and 3 pt shooting, Brink better in rebounding and blocked shots, but scoring difference not as different as Cam's margin in rebounding and blocks. Besides stats, my eye test is that despite Pili being a terrific player, if I'm an opposing coach, I owuld much rather face her than Brink in the post. Brink as we saw often can take over a game on both ends of the court - an din limited minutes.
brink and pili are both terrific. one of the reasons utah got so many open 3's again us is that we were busy doubling pili. if we hadn't doubled her, she might have scored 30+.
i agree that beers didn't impress - at least against us.
(02-28-2023, 01:28 PM)treetop11 Wrote: I also aggree that Beers should not have gotten Fr. POY or 6th player. Lots of potential better selections for 6th player and I thought Van Slooten and Londyn Jones were better frosh, and I would give the edge to Jones who showed she could take over games with both her O and D. Beers had some bad outings and limited ability all around.
I also don't agree with Pili over Brink. Pili averaged more points, but in context, Utah had a much more wide open offense with a number of top 3 point shooters. So opposing could not double and triple team her like they did with Brink. Brink almost is always mobbed and Pili much less so. Brink also almost had twice as many rebounds as Pili. Brink's selection as D POY is testament to her being all around the best. Although I did not check, but I suspect Pili played significant more minutes than Cam allowing her to score more due to Cam's fouls. Pili better in scoring and 3 pt shooting, Brink better in rebounding and blocked shots, but scoring difference not as different as Cam's margin in rebounding and blocks. Besides stats, my eye test is that despite Pili being a terrific player, if I'm an opposing coach, I owuld much rather face her than Brink in the post. Brink as we saw often can take over a game on both ends of the court - an din limited minutes.
brink and pili are both terrific. one of the reasons utah got so many open 3's again us is that we were busy doubling pili. if we hadn't doubled her, she might have scored 30+.
i agree that beers didn't impress - at least against us.
02-28-2023, 02:44 PM
(02-28-2023, 11:22 AM)chimera Wrote: Congrats to our group - Brink, Jones, Jump, Betts, and Lepolo. Pili was POY seems fine to me, as does Roberts for COY. Some of the all-conference choices are...interesting. Three from USC? Beers is good but to me she didn't stand out that much to be given quite so many honors on a team that did as poorly as OSU.
Meanwhile, UW is sitting there saying, "Hey, WE beat Stanford, too! And we're the ONLY team to not LOSE to them!"
(02-28-2023, 11:22 AM)chimera Wrote: Congrats to our group - Brink, Jones, Jump, Betts, and Lepolo. Pili was POY seems fine to me, as does Roberts for COY. Some of the all-conference choices are...interesting. Three from USC? Beers is good but to me she didn't stand out that much to be given quite so many honors on a team that did as poorly as OSU.
Meanwhile, UW is sitting there saying, "Hey, WE beat Stanford, too! And we're the ONLY team to not LOSE to them!"
02-28-2023, 03:18 PM
(02-28-2023, 01:28 PM)treetop11 Wrote: I also don't agree with Pili over Brink. Pili averaged more points, but in context, Utah had a much more wide open offense with a number of top 3 point shooters. So opposing could not double and triple team her like they did with Brink. Brink almost is always mobbed and Pili much less so. Brink also almost had twice as many rebounds as Pili. Brink's selection as D POY is testament to her being all around the best. Although I did not check, but I suspect Pili played significant more minutes than Cam allowing her to score more due to Cam's fouls. Pili better in scoring and 3 pt shooting, Brink better in rebounding and blocked shots, but scoring difference not as different as Cam's margin in rebounding and blocks. Besides stats, my eye test is that despite Pili being a terrific player, if I'm an opposing coach, I owuld much rather face her than Brink in the post. Brink as we saw often can take over a game on both ends of the court - an din limited minutes.I also like looking at the head to head. Brink performed demonstratively better in their two matchups:
Game 1
Stanford won at home by 12
Minutes: Pili (32) Brink (28) [Pili 4 fouls, Brink 5]
Efficiency: Pili (21) Brink (36)
Points: Pili (25) Brink (25)
Rebounds: Pili (5) Brink (12)
Assists: Pili (1) Brink (3)
TO: Pili (1) Brink (6) [only metric where Cam was materially worse]
Blocks: Pili (1) Brink (3)
Steals: Pili (2) Brink (1)
+/-: Pili (-1) Brink (+4)
Net Points: Pili (+14) Brink (+20) [higher is better]
DRtg: Pili (106.4) Brink (88.6) [lower defensive rating is better]
Game 2
Utah won at home by 6
Minutes: Pili (24) Brink (27) [both limited by foul trouble]
Efficiency: Pili (8) Brink (26)
Points: Pili (14) Brink (14)
Rebounds: Pili (1) Brink (12)
Assists: Pili (2) Brink (6)
Steals: Pili (0) Brink (0)
TO: Pili (1) Brink (4) [only metric where Cam was materially worse]
Blocks: Pili (0) Brink (4)
+/-: Pili (-1) Brink (+4)
Net Points: Pili (-5.2) Brink (+9.3) [higher is better]
DRtg: Pili (148) Brink (90.8) [lower defensive rating is better]
(02-28-2023, 01:28 PM)treetop11 Wrote: I also don't agree with Pili over Brink. Pili averaged more points, but in context, Utah had a much more wide open offense with a number of top 3 point shooters. So opposing could not double and triple team her like they did with Brink. Brink almost is always mobbed and Pili much less so. Brink also almost had twice as many rebounds as Pili. Brink's selection as D POY is testament to her being all around the best. Although I did not check, but I suspect Pili played significant more minutes than Cam allowing her to score more due to Cam's fouls. Pili better in scoring and 3 pt shooting, Brink better in rebounding and blocked shots, but scoring difference not as different as Cam's margin in rebounding and blocks. Besides stats, my eye test is that despite Pili being a terrific player, if I'm an opposing coach, I owuld much rather face her than Brink in the post. Brink as we saw often can take over a game on both ends of the court - an din limited minutes.I also like looking at the head to head. Brink performed demonstratively better in their two matchups:
Game 1
Stanford won at home by 12
Minutes: Pili (32) Brink (28) [Pili 4 fouls, Brink 5]
Efficiency: Pili (21) Brink (36)
Points: Pili (25) Brink (25)
Rebounds: Pili (5) Brink (12)
Assists: Pili (1) Brink (3)
TO: Pili (1) Brink (6) [only metric where Cam was materially worse]
Blocks: Pili (1) Brink (3)
Steals: Pili (2) Brink (1)
+/-: Pili (-1) Brink (+4)
Net Points: Pili (+14) Brink (+20) [higher is better]
DRtg: Pili (106.4) Brink (88.6) [lower defensive rating is better]
Game 2
Utah won at home by 6
Minutes: Pili (24) Brink (27) [both limited by foul trouble]
Efficiency: Pili (8) Brink (26)
Points: Pili (14) Brink (14)
Rebounds: Pili (1) Brink (12)
Assists: Pili (2) Brink (6)
Steals: Pili (0) Brink (0)
TO: Pili (1) Brink (4) [only metric where Cam was materially worse]
Blocks: Pili (0) Brink (4)
+/-: Pili (-1) Brink (+4)
Net Points: Pili (-5.2) Brink (+9.3) [higher is better]
DRtg: Pili (148) Brink (90.8) [lower defensive rating is better]
02-28-2023, 03:24 PM
I would have voted for Cameron. However, I can understand the counter argument. Brink is surrounded by many burgers. Don't know how many burgers are in Utah. That should mean that Stanford has many other players that can play at a high level while Utah doesn't have as many and teams can plan around stopping Pili, which they couldn't.
I'm just glad Rice didn't win FOY (yes, I'm bitter she went elsewhere). Rice and Jones will be a formidable duo for the following 3 years.
I'm just glad Rice didn't win FOY (yes, I'm bitter she went elsewhere). Rice and Jones will be a formidable duo for the following 3 years.
I would have voted for Cameron. However, I can understand the counter argument. Brink is surrounded by many burgers. Don't know how many burgers are in Utah. That should mean that Stanford has many other players that can play at a high level while Utah doesn't have as many and teams can plan around stopping Pili, which they couldn't.
I'm just glad Rice didn't win FOY (yes, I'm bitter she went elsewhere). Rice and Jones will be a formidable duo for the following 3 years.
I'm just glad Rice didn't win FOY (yes, I'm bitter she went elsewhere). Rice and Jones will be a formidable duo for the following 3 years.
02-28-2023, 03:51 PM
(02-28-2023, 03:24 PM)PVTree Wrote: I would have voted for Cameron. However, I can understand the counter argument. Brink is surrounded by many burgers. Don't know how many burgers are in Utah. That should mean that Stanford has many other players that can play at a high level while Utah doesn't have as many and teams can plan around stopping Pili, which they couldn't.
I'm just glad Rice didn't win FOY (yes, I'm bitter she went elsewhere). Rice and Jones will be a formidable duo for the following 3 years.
Ditto. And when I saw that UCLA had two players on the Freshmen team, I thought they should do better than 5th place in the conference.
(02-28-2023, 03:24 PM)PVTree Wrote: I would have voted for Cameron. However, I can understand the counter argument. Brink is surrounded by many burgers. Don't know how many burgers are in Utah. That should mean that Stanford has many other players that can play at a high level while Utah doesn't have as many and teams can plan around stopping Pili, which they couldn't.
I'm just glad Rice didn't win FOY (yes, I'm bitter she went elsewhere). Rice and Jones will be a formidable duo for the following 3 years.
Ditto. And when I saw that UCLA had two players on the Freshmen team, I thought they should do better than 5th place in the conference.
02-28-2023, 03:55 PM
I think if Stanford won outright, I'd have given it to Brink, but I guess I lean a bit towards Pili in the tie just given her stats. Impressive jump from he past two seasons at OSU.
Beers wasn't great against Stanford, but (aside from OSU's record, which is quite as important for FOY) I don't think she was a bad choice. Beers had some bad outings, but Jones had plenty herself and Vanslooten had some as well.
I don't like Beers for 6POY, but the competition was pretty weak for it.
Beers wasn't great against Stanford, but (aside from OSU's record, which is quite as important for FOY) I don't think she was a bad choice. Beers had some bad outings, but Jones had plenty herself and Vanslooten had some as well.
I don't like Beers for 6POY, but the competition was pretty weak for it.
I think if Stanford won outright, I'd have given it to Brink, but I guess I lean a bit towards Pili in the tie just given her stats. Impressive jump from he past two seasons at OSU.
Beers wasn't great against Stanford, but (aside from OSU's record, which is quite as important for FOY) I don't think she was a bad choice. Beers had some bad outings, but Jones had plenty herself and Vanslooten had some as well.
I don't like Beers for 6POY, but the competition was pretty weak for it.
Beers wasn't great against Stanford, but (aside from OSU's record, which is quite as important for FOY) I don't think she was a bad choice. Beers had some bad outings, but Jones had plenty herself and Vanslooten had some as well.
I don't like Beers for 6POY, but the competition was pretty weak for it.
02-28-2023, 03:58 PM
(02-28-2023, 03:24 PM)PVTree Wrote: I would have voted for Cameron. However, I can understand the counter argument. Brink is surrounded by many burgers. Don't know how many burgers are in Utah. That should mean that Stanford has many other players that can play at a high level while Utah doesn't have as many and teams can plan around stopping Pili, which they couldn't.
I'm just glad Rice didn't win FOY (yes, I'm bitter she went elsewhere). Rice and Jones will be a formidable duo for the following 3 years.
Rice and Jones may only get to play Stanford two more times depending on next years conference schedule, then off to the big ten. It will be interesting to see how many of the remaining Pac 12 teams will schedule out of conference games against ucla and usc in the future.
(02-28-2023, 03:24 PM)PVTree Wrote: I would have voted for Cameron. However, I can understand the counter argument. Brink is surrounded by many burgers. Don't know how many burgers are in Utah. That should mean that Stanford has many other players that can play at a high level while Utah doesn't have as many and teams can plan around stopping Pili, which they couldn't.
I'm just glad Rice didn't win FOY (yes, I'm bitter she went elsewhere). Rice and Jones will be a formidable duo for the following 3 years.
Rice and Jones may only get to play Stanford two more times depending on next years conference schedule, then off to the big ten. It will be interesting to see how many of the remaining Pac 12 teams will schedule out of conference games against ucla and usc in the future.
02-28-2023, 04:23 PM
(02-28-2023, 03:58 PM)Maple Leaf Wrote: Rice and Jones may only get to play Stanford two more times depending on next years conference schedule, then off to the big ten. It will be interesting to see how many of the remaining Pac 12 teams will schedule out of conference games against ucla and usc in the future.
Unless Stanford joins the B1G in the next three years….
(02-28-2023, 03:58 PM)Maple Leaf Wrote: Rice and Jones may only get to play Stanford two more times depending on next years conference schedule, then off to the big ten. It will be interesting to see how many of the remaining Pac 12 teams will schedule out of conference games against ucla and usc in the future.
Unless Stanford joins the B1G in the next three years….
02-28-2023, 04:54 PM
(02-28-2023, 03:24 PM)PVTree Wrote: I would have voted for Cameron. However, I can understand the counter argument. Brink is surrounded by many burgers. Don't know how many burgers are in Utah. That should mean that Stanford has many other players that can play at a high level while Utah doesn't have as many and teams can plan around stopping Pili, which they couldn't.
I'm just glad Rice didn't win FOY (yes, I'm bitter she went elsewhere). Rice and Jones will be a formidable duo for the following 3 years.
Actually I think Pili has a better supporting cast overall with 5 strong starters and good players off the bench. We underestimate how much Brink, Jones, and Jump do and carry the team. Also, our depth at post, particularly when Cam picks up fouls, means less time for her to have padded her stats. If brink played jones and Jump minutes, shw would have led in scoring. The comparison by OC is appropriate and shows Pili clearly an elite player but Brink still a head above.
I think Pili got the votes because coaches thought her indispensable to Utah's success whereas Brink had another AA in Haley. But missing Pilli for significant minutes in our game didn't affect Utah much at all. Also, since coaches were giving Cam D POY, the vote for POY was a way of acknowledging Pili - splitting the baby.
Frankly, other than Caitlin Clark, I don't think there is another player in the country with the ability to determine outcomes of games so much as Cam. Clark is better, Cam second with a whole bunch of players close to Cam.
(02-28-2023, 03:24 PM)PVTree Wrote: I would have voted for Cameron. However, I can understand the counter argument. Brink is surrounded by many burgers. Don't know how many burgers are in Utah. That should mean that Stanford has many other players that can play at a high level while Utah doesn't have as many and teams can plan around stopping Pili, which they couldn't.
I'm just glad Rice didn't win FOY (yes, I'm bitter she went elsewhere). Rice and Jones will be a formidable duo for the following 3 years.
Actually I think Pili has a better supporting cast overall with 5 strong starters and good players off the bench. We underestimate how much Brink, Jones, and Jump do and carry the team. Also, our depth at post, particularly when Cam picks up fouls, means less time for her to have padded her stats. If brink played jones and Jump minutes, shw would have led in scoring. The comparison by OC is appropriate and shows Pili clearly an elite player but Brink still a head above.
I think Pili got the votes because coaches thought her indispensable to Utah's success whereas Brink had another AA in Haley. But missing Pilli for significant minutes in our game didn't affect Utah much at all. Also, since coaches were giving Cam D POY, the vote for POY was a way of acknowledging Pili - splitting the baby.
Frankly, other than Caitlin Clark, I don't think there is another player in the country with the ability to determine outcomes of games so much as Cam. Clark is better, Cam second with a whole bunch of players close to Cam.
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