[lex24]

1711212228[/url]']

1711208749[/url]']

1711078500[/url]']

1711049802[/url]']
[quote="Mick" pid='410812' dateline='1711048288']
In spring training, Yamamoto is the #37 ranked Dodger pitcher with a 8.38 ERA in three starts. He pitched 9 2/3 innings, gave up 15 hits, four walks and nine earned runs. He struck out 14, so he's not incapable. Batters are hitting .357 against him, his WHIP was 1.97, ranked #35 on the club. Yamamoto's spring training WHIP would rank #24 on the Giants and his ERA would rank #29.

But spring training numbers are meaningless, so I'm sure Yamamoto will be fine.

In the regular season, Yamamoto's ERA is 45.00, with 5 earned runs, four hits, a walk, a hit batsman and two strikeouts. It's the most runs given up by a Dodgers debut starter in club history. After Yamamoto pitched, the Dodgers had three errors and LA pitchers gave up 17 hits, six walks and hit three batters. To be fair, Yamamoto is likely still getting used to the schedule, the pitch clock and a slightly different baseball (which provides a worse natural grip, according to pitchers who have used both). And the Dodgers did score 11 runs, losing 15-11.

Early season numbers are not terribly meaningful, so I'm sure Yamamoto will be fine.

At the same time, while I wish we got Ohtani, I'm glad we got Snell. And Hicks. And Ray. And Lee. And Soler. And Chapman. And yes, even the spray-armed Murphy, who had a walkoff hit in the Giants' 5-4 victory over the White Sox.

Agree totally, Mick, except for Murphy. Not sold that he's going to be better than Bart. The pitchers must not like throwing to Bart at all, and that's a consideration.

Things must have changed then. In 2020, his teammates praised him without prompting (per C.W. Nevius).
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/sp...nd-center/

I'm guessing Cobb, DeSclafani and Doval appreciated his talents last May..
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/sp...nd-center/

Quote from a Baggerly TheAthletic article:
"Calling up Bart would be popular among the veterans in the room, especially the pitchers. One Giants player told me that “there hasn’t been a day” since July 10, when Posey decided to opt out, that the clubhouse hasn’t exerted pressure on coaches and front-office staff to put Bart on the team.
https://theathletic.com/1966846/2020/07/...-imminent/

Logan Webb was very complimentary of Bart in a regular season game last year. Webb doesn't strike me as a guy who holds back, particularly given his comments about the prior manager, when the prior manager still had his managing job. 

Regardless, Bart wasn't Farhan's guy and he's not Melvin's guy, so he's not going to stick, I get that. And spring training stats don't matter, I'm told repeatedly. So here's the stats that don't matter (BA/OBP/Slugging%/OPS):

Bart (.423/.529/.462/.991). 11 hits, 10 singles, a double, six walks, 7 strikeouts. And he's the only catcher with a stolen base, he's actually pretty fast. He's scored nine runs, about twice as many as the other three combined.
Murphy (.250/.342/.375/.717). Four doubles, 8 hits, 4 walks, 12 strikeouts.
Bailey (.118/.286/.294/.580) after 2 hits in 17 ABs. One of them was an HR, though.  7 strikeouts, 4 walks. Patty Barrels is 0 for 3 with two strikeouts today.
Reetz (.000/.000/.000/.000) after a perfect 0 for 11 with six strikeouts.

But again, we must remember, spring training stats are completely and totally meaningless, and are meant to be disregarded, which is why JD Davis (.375/.375/.500/.875) is playing for the A's for less than half his arbitration win. And Alex Wood has a 4.76 ERA (oops), but a 1.15 WHIP, having struck out 13 and walked one.
[/

 Bart was gone the second they signed Murphy.  

As for spring training stats (and team records) you can be as sarcastic as you like.  But they don’t matter.  Never have.  Put another way - give me the lifetime ST stats of any Hall of Famer. Who is the ST all time HR leader?  What team has won Cactus or Grapefruit League “championships”. 

They are exhibition games.

MLB has kept spring training statistics since 2006. Maybe they've only been meaningful since then... ;). 

Here, these two articles confirm your position will make you feel better. Spring training W/L records are utterly meaningless:
https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/my-an...standings/
https://www.royalsreview.com/2013/3/3/40...-dont-mean

The only statistics that remain unvaried between spring training and the regular season are those that players have 100% control over; e.g., maximum exit velocity, spin rate, horizontal and vertical movement, etc. Batting and pitching stats are meaningless.

I think spring training success or lack of same aren't predictive for regulars, particularly those who are rounding into shape or trying out new swings, or getting over minor injuries, or trying new pitches. Otherwise, Logan Webb (9.00 ERA) is in trouble. I do think it's meaningful for fringe players or average ballplayers when it comes to making the team.

Incidentally, Ryan Howard has the single season spring training record of 11 HRs. That year, he hit 58 in MLB and was the MVP. 

BTW, these former Giants are all still trying to get signed: Belt, Bumgarner, Coonrod, Cueto, Jarlin Garcia, La Stella, Longoria, Melancon, Pollock, Ruf and Solano.

I agree with you on the fringe players. I’ll end with that!

[lex24]

1711212228[/url]']

1711208749[/url]']

1711078500[/url]']

1711049802[/url]']
[quote="Mick" pid='410812' dateline='1711048288']
In spring training, Yamamoto is the #37 ranked Dodger pitcher with a 8.38 ERA in three starts. He pitched 9 2/3 innings, gave up 15 hits, four walks and nine earned runs. He struck out 14, so he's not incapable. Batters are hitting .357 against him, his WHIP was 1.97, ranked #35 on the club. Yamamoto's spring training WHIP would rank #24 on the Giants and his ERA would rank #29.

But spring training numbers are meaningless, so I'm sure Yamamoto will be fine.

In the regular season, Yamamoto's ERA is 45.00, with 5 earned runs, four hits, a walk, a hit batsman and two strikeouts. It's the most runs given up by a Dodgers debut starter in club history. After Yamamoto pitched, the Dodgers had three errors and LA pitchers gave up 17 hits, six walks and hit three batters. To be fair, Yamamoto is likely still getting used to the schedule, the pitch clock and a slightly different baseball (which provides a worse natural grip, according to pitchers who have used both). And the Dodgers did score 11 runs, losing 15-11.

Early season numbers are not terribly meaningful, so I'm sure Yamamoto will be fine.

At the same time, while I wish we got Ohtani, I'm glad we got Snell. And Hicks. And Ray. And Lee. And Soler. And Chapman. And yes, even the spray-armed Murphy, who had a walkoff hit in the Giants' 5-4 victory over the White Sox.

Agree totally, Mick, except for Murphy. Not sold that he's going to be better than Bart. The pitchers must not like throwing to Bart at all, and that's a consideration.

Things must have changed then. In 2020, his teammates praised him without prompting (per C.W. Nevius).
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/sp...nd-center/

I'm guessing Cobb, DeSclafani and Doval appreciated his talents last May..
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/sp...nd-center/

Quote from a Baggerly TheAthletic article:
"Calling up Bart would be popular among the veterans in the room, especially the pitchers. One Giants player told me that “there hasn’t been a day” since July 10, when Posey decided to opt out, that the clubhouse hasn’t exerted pressure on coaches and front-office staff to put Bart on the team.
https://theathletic.com/1966846/2020/07/...-imminent/

Logan Webb was very complimentary of Bart in a regular season game last year. Webb doesn't strike me as a guy who holds back, particularly given his comments about the prior manager, when the prior manager still had his managing job. 

Regardless, Bart wasn't Farhan's guy and he's not Melvin's guy, so he's not going to stick, I get that. And spring training stats don't matter, I'm told repeatedly. So here's the stats that don't matter (BA/OBP/Slugging%/OPS):

Bart (.423/.529/.462/.991). 11 hits, 10 singles, a double, six walks, 7 strikeouts. And he's the only catcher with a stolen base, he's actually pretty fast. He's scored nine runs, about twice as many as the other three combined.
Murphy (.250/.342/.375/.717). Four doubles, 8 hits, 4 walks, 12 strikeouts.
Bailey (.118/.286/.294/.580) after 2 hits in 17 ABs. One of them was an HR, though.  7 strikeouts, 4 walks. Patty Barrels is 0 for 3 with two strikeouts today.
Reetz (.000/.000/.000/.000) after a perfect 0 for 11 with six strikeouts.

But again, we must remember, spring training stats are completely and totally meaningless, and are meant to be disregarded, which is why JD Davis (.375/.375/.500/.875) is playing for the A's for less than half his arbitration win. And Alex Wood has a 4.76 ERA (oops), but a 1.15 WHIP, having struck out 13 and walked one.
[/

 Bart was gone the second they signed Murphy.  

As for spring training stats (and team records) you can be as sarcastic as you like.  But they don’t matter.  Never have.  Put another way - give me the lifetime ST stats of any Hall of Famer. Who is the ST all time HR leader?  What team has won Cactus or Grapefruit League “championships”. 

They are exhibition games.

MLB has kept spring training statistics since 2006. Maybe they've only been meaningful since then... ;). 

Here, these two articles confirm your position will make you feel better. Spring training W/L records are utterly meaningless:
https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/my-an...standings/
https://www.royalsreview.com/2013/3/3/40...-dont-mean

The only statistics that remain unvaried between spring training and the regular season are those that players have 100% control over; e.g., maximum exit velocity, spin rate, horizontal and vertical movement, etc. Batting and pitching stats are meaningless.

I think spring training success or lack of same aren't predictive for regulars, particularly those who are rounding into shape or trying out new swings, or getting over minor injuries, or trying new pitches. Otherwise, Logan Webb (9.00 ERA) is in trouble. I do think it's meaningful for fringe players or average ballplayers when it comes to making the team.

Incidentally, Ryan Howard has the single season spring training record of 11 HRs. That year, he hit 58 in MLB and was the MVP. 

BTW, these former Giants are all still trying to get signed: Belt, Bumgarner, Coonrod, Cueto, Jarlin Garcia, La Stella, Longoria, Melancon, Pollock, Ruf and Solano.

I agree with you on the fringe players. I’ll end with that!

[Giants]

At least Melancon is still getting paid by the Giants ($1,000,000 this year per Spotrac).

[Giants]

At least Melancon is still getting paid by the Giants ($1,000,000 this year per Spotrac).

[Mick]

I agree with you on the fringe players. I’ll end with that!

Speaking of fringe players...

- 23-year-old LHP Juan Sanchez might make the team. In AA and AAA last season, he struck out 80 in 74 1/3rd innings with a 3.03 ERA. He's pitched in 8 games this spring with a 1.80 ERA and a 0.700 WHIP, 10 IP, one HR given up. Batters are hitting .118 against him. Bob Melvin says he's taking a hard look at him.

- 22 year old Luciano has hit his second home run in two days. Hitting just .237, but seems to have gotten over his hamstring injury. Melvin speaks highly of him, says the hamstring injury affected his early at bats and says Ahmed vs. Luciano will come down to the wire.

- I suspect Matos will start on the roster over Slater. Matos has hit .314/.375/.667/1.042 with four HRs, 14 rus score, 11 RBIs and has played in all three spots. 

- Since Hjelle is out with a right elbow sprain, either Mason Black, Dalton Jeffries or Landen Roupp (2.25 ERA, 13 strikeouts) is likely to make the Opening Day roster.

- Tyler Fitzgerald has played 2B, SS, CF and LF in the spring. He has elite speed, but he's struck out 21 times in 42 ABs.

- Stanford's Erik Miller struck out two of three batters faced.

And in non-fringe player news:

- Jung Hoo Lee continues to impress (hitting .414)
- Blake Snell pitches in a minor league game today.
- Matt Chapman hit his second HR, he's hitting .278 with a .960 OPS
- Keaton Winn pitched 4 innings against the Cubs. In the first three innings, he faced 10 batters and allowed just one hit

JD Martinez had an interesting perspective on why he turned down a 14% higher contract at SF to play for the Mets. Not just that he doesn't like hitting at Oracle (and he doesn't, he hits .205/.227/.410/.637 here), but he stated that his numbers would cause him to suffer for his next contract. And the guy's 36, he's still thinking about that. So for all the hitting prospects that we've missed out on, including Harper, Judge, Stanton, Ohtani...doesn't surprise me that they don't want to come here. It would have a material impact on both their current and future success.

https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/mlb/san...s/1716301/

[Mick]

I agree with you on the fringe players. I’ll end with that!

Speaking of fringe players...

- 23-year-old LHP Juan Sanchez might make the team. In AA and AAA last season, he struck out 80 in 74 1/3rd innings with a 3.03 ERA. He's pitched in 8 games this spring with a 1.80 ERA and a 0.700 WHIP, 10 IP, one HR given up. Batters are hitting .118 against him. Bob Melvin says he's taking a hard look at him.

- 22 year old Luciano has hit his second home run in two days. Hitting just .237, but seems to have gotten over his hamstring injury. Melvin speaks highly of him, says the hamstring injury affected his early at bats and says Ahmed vs. Luciano will come down to the wire.

- I suspect Matos will start on the roster over Slater. Matos has hit .314/.375/.667/1.042 with four HRs, 14 rus score, 11 RBIs and has played in all three spots. 

- Since Hjelle is out with a right elbow sprain, either Mason Black, Dalton Jeffries or Landen Roupp (2.25 ERA, 13 strikeouts) is likely to make the Opening Day roster.

- Tyler Fitzgerald has played 2B, SS, CF and LF in the spring. He has elite speed, but he's struck out 21 times in 42 ABs.

- Stanford's Erik Miller struck out two of three batters faced.

And in non-fringe player news:

- Jung Hoo Lee continues to impress (hitting .414)
- Blake Snell pitches in a minor league game today.
- Matt Chapman hit his second HR, he's hitting .278 with a .960 OPS
- Keaton Winn pitched 4 innings against the Cubs. In the first three innings, he faced 10 batters and allowed just one hit

JD Martinez had an interesting perspective on why he turned down a 14% higher contract at SF to play for the Mets. Not just that he doesn't like hitting at Oracle (and he doesn't, he hits .205/.227/.410/.637 here), but he stated that his numbers would cause him to suffer for his next contract. And the guy's 36, he's still thinking about that. So for all the hitting prospects that we've missed out on, including Harper, Judge, Stanton, Ohtani...doesn't surprise me that they don't want to come here. It would have a material impact on both their current and future success.

https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/mlb/san...s/1716301/

[cardcrimson]

I agree with you on the fringe players. I’ll end with that!

Speaking of fringe players...

- 23-year-old LHP Juan Sanchez might make the team. In AA and AAA last season, he struck out 80 in 74 1/3rd innings with a 3.03 ERA. He's pitched in 8 games this spring with a 1.80 ERA and a 0.700 WHIP, 10 IP, one HR given up. Batters are hitting .118 against him. Bob Melvin says he's taking a hard look at him.

- 22 year old Luciano has hit his second home run in two days. Hitting just .237, but seems to have gotten over his hamstring injury. Melvin speaks highly of him, says the hamstring injury affected his early at bats and says Ahmed vs. Luciano will come down to the wire.

- I suspect Matos will start on the roster over Slater. Matos has hit .314/.375/.667/1.042 with four HRs, 14 rus score, 11 RBIs and has played in all three spots. 

- Since Hjelle is out with a right elbow sprain, either Mason Black, Dalton Jeffries or Landen Roupp (2.25 ERA, 13 strikeouts) is likely to make the Opening Day roster.

- Tyler Fitzgerald has played 2B, SS, CF and LF in the spring. He has elite speed, but he's struck out 21 times in 42 ABs.

- Stanford's Erik Miller struck out two of three batters faced.

And in non-fringe player news:

- Jung Hoo Lee continues to impress (hitting .414)
- Blake Snell pitches in a minor league game today.
- Matt Chapman hit his second HR, he's hitting .278 with a .960 OPS
- Keaton Winn pitched 4 innings against the Cubs. In the first three innings, he faced 10 batters and allowed just one hit

JD Martinez had an interesting perspective on why he turned down a 14% higher contract at SF to play for the Mets. Not just that he doesn't like hitting at Oracle (and he doesn't, he hits .205/.227/.410/.637 here), but he stated that his numbers would cause him to suffer for his next contract. And the guy's 36, he's still thinking about that. So for all the hitting prospects that we've missed out on, including Harper, Judge, Stanton, Ohtani...doesn't surprise me that they don't want to come here. It would have a material impact on both their current and future success.

https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/mlb/san...s/1716301/

I'm perplexed. I thought this thread was about Ohtani. . . .

[cardcrimson]

I agree with you on the fringe players. I’ll end with that!

Speaking of fringe players...

- 23-year-old LHP Juan Sanchez might make the team. In AA and AAA last season, he struck out 80 in 74 1/3rd innings with a 3.03 ERA. He's pitched in 8 games this spring with a 1.80 ERA and a 0.700 WHIP, 10 IP, one HR given up. Batters are hitting .118 against him. Bob Melvin says he's taking a hard look at him.

- 22 year old Luciano has hit his second home run in two days. Hitting just .237, but seems to have gotten over his hamstring injury. Melvin speaks highly of him, says the hamstring injury affected his early at bats and says Ahmed vs. Luciano will come down to the wire.

- I suspect Matos will start on the roster over Slater. Matos has hit .314/.375/.667/1.042 with four HRs, 14 rus score, 11 RBIs and has played in all three spots. 

- Since Hjelle is out with a right elbow sprain, either Mason Black, Dalton Jeffries or Landen Roupp (2.25 ERA, 13 strikeouts) is likely to make the Opening Day roster.

- Tyler Fitzgerald has played 2B, SS, CF and LF in the spring. He has elite speed, but he's struck out 21 times in 42 ABs.

- Stanford's Erik Miller struck out two of three batters faced.

And in non-fringe player news:

- Jung Hoo Lee continues to impress (hitting .414)
- Blake Snell pitches in a minor league game today.
- Matt Chapman hit his second HR, he's hitting .278 with a .960 OPS
- Keaton Winn pitched 4 innings against the Cubs. In the first three innings, he faced 10 batters and allowed just one hit

JD Martinez had an interesting perspective on why he turned down a 14% higher contract at SF to play for the Mets. Not just that he doesn't like hitting at Oracle (and he doesn't, he hits .205/.227/.410/.637 here), but he stated that his numbers would cause him to suffer for his next contract. And the guy's 36, he's still thinking about that. So for all the hitting prospects that we've missed out on, including Harper, Judge, Stanton, Ohtani...doesn't surprise me that they don't want to come here. It would have a material impact on both their current and future success.

https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/mlb/san...s/1716301/

I'm perplexed. I thought this thread was about Ohtani. . . .