[JohnOlenchalk]

this decision making by Shaw was just as bad as Harbs against UCLA or kal, but the difference is Harbs took ownership, learned and moved on.  Shaw, didn't, can't, or won't.  that's probably a big reason why Shaw is at Stanford and Bill Roman is OC of the 9ers.

Shaw needs to man the ph*ck up and quit deluding himself, but this was his pattern all year, and it started to hurt his against Oregon (fg in 4 down territory against a team that was going scoreboard you) and probably cost AL the Voldemort down the stretch.

I can only hope that he at least had the sac to tell Polian to hit the road, that might make me feel a little better, but not a lot.

Everyone in that stadium knew he was screwing up at the end of regulation but him.  His carefully reasoned explanation to Tom Fitzgerald smell like Neville Chamberlain to me.

[JohnOlenchalk]

this decision making by Shaw was just as bad as Harbs against UCLA or kal, but the difference is Harbs took ownership, learned and moved on.  Shaw, didn't, can't, or won't.  that's probably a big reason why Shaw is at Stanford and Bill Roman is OC of the 9ers.

Shaw needs to man the ph*ck up and quit deluding himself, but this was his pattern all year, and it started to hurt his against Oregon (fg in 4 down territory against a team that was going scoreboard you) and probably cost AL the Voldemort down the stretch.

I can only hope that he at least had the sac to tell Polian to hit the road, that might make me feel a little better, but not a lot.

Everyone in that stadium knew he was screwing up at the end of regulation but him.  His carefully reasoned explanation to Tom Fitzgerald smell like Neville Chamberlain to me.

[JohnOlenchalk]

this decision making by Shaw was just as bad as Harbs against UCLA or kal, but the difference is Harbs took ownership, learned and moved on.  Shaw, didn't, can't, or won't.  that's probably a big reason why Shaw is at Stanford and Bill Roman is OC of the 9ers.

Shaw needs to man the ph*ck up and quit deluding himself, but this was his pattern all year, and it started to hurt his against Oregon (fg in 4 down territory against a team that was going scoreboard you) and probably cost AL the Voldemort down the stretch.

I can only hope that he at least had the sac to tell Polian to hit the road, that might make me feel a little better, but not a lot.

Everyone in that stadium knew he was screwing up at the end of regulation but him.  His carefully reasoned explanation to Tom Fitzgerald smell like Neville Chamberlain to me.

[JohnOlenchalk]

this decision making by Shaw was just as bad as Harbs against UCLA or kal, but the difference is Harbs took ownership, learned and moved on.  Shaw, didn't, can't, or won't.  that's probably a big reason why Shaw is at Stanford and Bill Roman is OC of the 9ers.

Shaw needs to man the ph*ck up and quit deluding himself, but this was his pattern all year, and it started to hurt his against Oregon (fg in 4 down territory against a team that was going scoreboard you) and probably cost AL the Voldemort down the stretch.

I can only hope that he at least had the sac to tell Polian to hit the road, that might make me feel a little better, but not a lot.

Everyone in that stadium knew he was screwing up at the end of regulation but him.  His carefully reasoned explanation to Tom Fitzgerald smell like Neville Chamberlain to me.

[JohnOlenchalk]

this decision making by Shaw was just as bad as Harbs against UCLA or kal, but the difference is Harbs took ownership, learned and moved on.  Shaw, didn't, can't, or won't.  that's probably a big reason why Shaw is at Stanford and Bill Roman is OC of the 9ers.

Shaw needs to man the ph*ck up and quit deluding himself, but this was his pattern all year, and it started to hurt his against Oregon (fg in 4 down territory against a team that was going scoreboard you) and probably cost AL the Voldemort down the stretch.

I can only hope that he at least had the sac to tell Polian to hit the road, that might make me feel a little better, but not a lot.

Everyone in that stadium knew he was screwing up at the end of regulation but him.  His carefully reasoned explanation to Tom Fitzgerald smell like Neville Chamberlain to me.

[JohnOlenchalk]

this decision making by Shaw was just as bad as Harbs against UCLA or kal, but the difference is Harbs took ownership, learned and moved on.  Shaw, didn't, can't, or won't.  that's probably a big reason why Shaw is at Stanford and Bill Roman is OC of the 9ers.

Shaw needs to man the ph*ck up and quit deluding himself, but this was his pattern all year, and it started to hurt his against Oregon (fg in 4 down territory against a team that was going scoreboard you) and probably cost AL the Voldemort down the stretch.

I can only hope that he at least had the sac to tell Polian to hit the road, that might make me feel a little better, but not a lot.

Everyone in that stadium knew he was screwing up at the end of regulation but him.  His carefully reasoned explanation to Tom Fitzgerald smell like Neville Chamberlain to me.

[JohnOlenchalk]

this decision making by Shaw was just as bad as Harbs against UCLA or kal, but the difference is Harbs took ownership, learned and moved on.  Shaw, didn't, can't, or won't.  that's probably a big reason why Shaw is at Stanford and Bill Roman is OC of the 9ers.

Shaw needs to man the ph*ck up and quit deluding himself, but this was his pattern all year, and it started to hurt his against Oregon (fg in 4 down territory against a team that was going scoreboard you) and probably cost AL the Voldemort down the stretch.

I can only hope that he at least had the sac to tell Polian to hit the road, that might make me feel a little better, but not a lot.

Everyone in that stadium knew he was screwing up at the end of regulation but him.  His carefully reasoned explanation to Tom Fitzgerald smell like Neville Chamberlain to me.

[JohnOlenchalk]

this decision making by Shaw was just as bad as Harbs against UCLA or kal, but the difference is Harbs took ownership, learned and moved on.  Shaw, didn't, can't, or won't.  that's probably a big reason why Shaw is at Stanford and Bill Roman is OC of the 9ers.

Shaw needs to man the ph*ck up and quit deluding himself, but this was his pattern all year, and it started to hurt his against Oregon (fg in 4 down territory against a team that was going scoreboard you) and probably cost AL the Voldemort down the stretch.

I can only hope that he at least had the sac to tell Polian to hit the road, that might make me feel a little better, but not a lot.

Everyone in that stadium knew he was screwing up at the end of regulation but him.  His carefully reasoned explanation to Tom Fitzgerald smell like Neville Chamberlain to me.

[washingtonismoney]

Did Harbaugh admit to making a mistake against UCLA? I don't remember such a thing. I certainly don't remember him owning up to his mistakes in 2009 against kal.

Coaches almost never admit to mistakes publicly.

EDIT: After the kal game Harbaugh said "I should've given [Luck] a better play." Which doesn't imply he should've run instead of passed, IMHO.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=293250024

[washingtonismoney]

Did Harbaugh admit to making a mistake against UCLA? I don't remember such a thing. I certainly don't remember him owning up to his mistakes in 2009 against kal.

Coaches almost never admit to mistakes publicly.

EDIT: After the kal game Harbaugh said "I should've given [Luck] a better play." Which doesn't imply he should've run instead of passed, IMHO.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=293250024

[washingtonismoney]

Did Harbaugh admit to making a mistake against UCLA? I don't remember such a thing. I certainly don't remember him owning up to his mistakes in 2009 against kal.

Coaches almost never admit to mistakes publicly.

EDIT: After the kal game Harbaugh said "I should've given [Luck] a better play." Which doesn't imply he should've run instead of passed, IMHO.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=293250024

[washingtonismoney]

Did Harbaugh admit to making a mistake against UCLA? I don't remember such a thing. I certainly don't remember him owning up to his mistakes in 2009 against kal.

Coaches almost never admit to mistakes publicly.

EDIT: After the kal game Harbaugh said "I should've given [Luck] a better play." Which doesn't imply he should've run instead of passed, IMHO.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=293250024

[washingtonismoney]

Did Harbaugh admit to making a mistake against UCLA? I don't remember such a thing. I certainly don't remember him owning up to his mistakes in 2009 against kal.

Coaches almost never admit to mistakes publicly.

EDIT: After the kal game Harbaugh said "I should've given [Luck] a better play." Which doesn't imply he should've run instead of passed, IMHO.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=293250024

[washingtonismoney]

Did Harbaugh admit to making a mistake against UCLA? I don't remember such a thing. I certainly don't remember him owning up to his mistakes in 2009 against kal.

Coaches almost never admit to mistakes publicly.

EDIT: After the kal game Harbaugh said "I should've given [Luck] a better play." Which doesn't imply he should've run instead of passed, IMHO.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=293250024

[washingtonismoney]

Did Harbaugh admit to making a mistake against UCLA? I don't remember such a thing. I certainly don't remember him owning up to his mistakes in 2009 against kal.

Coaches almost never admit to mistakes publicly.

EDIT: After the kal game Harbaugh said "I should've given [Luck] a better play." Which doesn't imply he should've run instead of passed, IMHO.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=293250024

[washingtonismoney]

Did Harbaugh admit to making a mistake against UCLA? I don't remember such a thing. I certainly don't remember him owning up to his mistakes in 2009 against kal.

Coaches almost never admit to mistakes publicly.

EDIT: After the kal game Harbaugh said "I should've given [Luck] a better play." Which doesn't imply he should've run instead of passed, IMHO.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=293250024

[76lsjumb]

this decision making by Shaw was just as bad as Harbs against UCLA or kal, but the difference is Harbs took ownership, learned and moved on.  Shaw, didn't, can't, or won't.  that's probably a big reason why Shaw is at Stanford and Bill Roman is OC of the 9ers.

Shaw needs to man the ph*ck up and quit deluding himself, but this was his pattern all year, and it started to hurt his against Oregon (fg in 4 down territory against a team that was going scoreboard you) and probably cost AL the Voldemort down the stretch.

I can only hope that he at least had the sac to tell Polian to hit the road, that might make me feel a little better, but not a lot.

Everyone in that stadium knew he was screwing up at the end of regulation but him.  His carefully reasoned explanation to Tom Fitzgerald smell like Neville Chamberlain to me.

johnnyo53 -- Forgive me, but I've forgotten how many wins you've coached or what your record was in your first season?

I know I've got to give this up and start focusing on how to justify Dawkins' coaching [  ;) ], but I just can't understand the absolute certainty folks have regarding the rightness or wrongness of this decision.  I happened to see a thread on the BootBoard last night when googling to see what I could find out on some recruiting point, and the vitriol expressed over there against Shaw by several posters made that thread on the OSU board about the LSJUMB look like a lovefest...

I wasn't a psych major [nor have I ever played one on TV], but I've got to believe there is a study somewhere showing that, in Monday[or, here, Tuesday]-morning quarterbacking situations, where something bad happened as a result of the decision actually made, there is a natural tendency to OVERESTIMATE the probability of that bad outcome and a similar tendency to UNDERESTIMATE the probability of a bad outcome from the other available alternatives. 

Thus, it becomes more clear to everyone AFTER the kick is missed that a guy who made 6 of 7 from that range during the season, had nailed his last PAT, and had made his last field goal, was, "obviously," a too-young guy, scared out of his mind, incapable of handling the pressure of a fairly routine kick to win a really big game.  Conversely, AFTER the decision is made not to continue trying to score a touchdown, it is also more clear to everyone that we would not have had any false start penalty [making any FG attempt even harder], would not have fumbled a hand-off, would not have thrown an incerception, or, indeed, would not have scored so quickly that we gave OSU enough time to take the ball back down the field on a 50-yard kickoff return followed by two long receptions for Blackmon to score again, but, instead, would have scored a touchdown or magically transformed our too-young, scared out of his mind, etc. kicker into a calm, cool assassin.

If Shaw had stopped at the 45 yard line with 2 minutes to go and sent Willimason out to try a field goal, I would have been among the first people calling for him to be sacked before he could leave the stadium.  But, that's NOT what he did.  The decision he actually made was and is every bit as defensible as the other alternatives that have been posited, ...and vice versa.  But, again, just ask Dabo Sweeney and Clemson what can happen on a routine 2-yard touchdown plunge and then see if you STILL think that Shaw's was the absolutely wrong decision and going for the TD was the absolutely right one.

We're talking about degrees of risk here and no one -- not johnnyo53, not me, not even teejers -- can accurately or, in my view, even reasonably say NOW that the comparative risks of any of the alternatives were so obvious BEFORE the decision that Shaw was wrong -- or that he should now "admit" it.  His "pattern all year" gave us an 11-2 record -- works for me.

As for Bill Roman and the 49ers, forgive me again, but I've forgotten how many times he's called for a field goal attempt in the red zone this year for the 49ers.

Time to turn to basketball...and looking forward to the game [whichever one it turns out to be] where Jordan Williamson's successful shot at redemption brings a smile to my face [and probably even to the faces of those on the BootBoard...]

[76lsjumb]

this decision making by Shaw was just as bad as Harbs against UCLA or kal, but the difference is Harbs took ownership, learned and moved on.  Shaw, didn't, can't, or won't.  that's probably a big reason why Shaw is at Stanford and Bill Roman is OC of the 9ers.

Shaw needs to man the ph*ck up and quit deluding himself, but this was his pattern all year, and it started to hurt his against Oregon (fg in 4 down territory against a team that was going scoreboard you) and probably cost AL the Voldemort down the stretch.

I can only hope that he at least had the sac to tell Polian to hit the road, that might make me feel a little better, but not a lot.

Everyone in that stadium knew he was screwing up at the end of regulation but him.  His carefully reasoned explanation to Tom Fitzgerald smell like Neville Chamberlain to me.

johnnyo53 -- Forgive me, but I've forgotten how many wins you've coached or what your record was in your first season?

I know I've got to give this up and start focusing on how to justify Dawkins' coaching [  ;) ], but I just can't understand the absolute certainty folks have regarding the rightness or wrongness of this decision.  I happened to see a thread on the BootBoard last night when googling to see what I could find out on some recruiting point, and the vitriol expressed over there against Shaw by several posters made that thread on the OSU board about the LSJUMB look like a lovefest...

I wasn't a psych major [nor have I ever played one on TV], but I've got to believe there is a study somewhere showing that, in Monday[or, here, Tuesday]-morning quarterbacking situations, where something bad happened as a result of the decision actually made, there is a natural tendency to OVERESTIMATE the probability of that bad outcome and a similar tendency to UNDERESTIMATE the probability of a bad outcome from the other available alternatives. 

Thus, it becomes more clear to everyone AFTER the kick is missed that a guy who made 6 of 7 from that range during the season, had nailed his last PAT, and had made his last field goal, was, "obviously," a too-young guy, scared out of his mind, incapable of handling the pressure of a fairly routine kick to win a really big game.  Conversely, AFTER the decision is made not to continue trying to score a touchdown, it is also more clear to everyone that we would not have had any false start penalty [making any FG attempt even harder], would not have fumbled a hand-off, would not have thrown an incerception, or, indeed, would not have scored so quickly that we gave OSU enough time to take the ball back down the field on a 50-yard kickoff return followed by two long receptions for Blackmon to score again, but, instead, would have scored a touchdown or magically transformed our too-young, scared out of his mind, etc. kicker into a calm, cool assassin.

If Shaw had stopped at the 45 yard line with 2 minutes to go and sent Willimason out to try a field goal, I would have been among the first people calling for him to be sacked before he could leave the stadium.  But, that's NOT what he did.  The decision he actually made was and is every bit as defensible as the other alternatives that have been posited, ...and vice versa.  But, again, just ask Dabo Sweeney and Clemson what can happen on a routine 2-yard touchdown plunge and then see if you STILL think that Shaw's was the absolutely wrong decision and going for the TD was the absolutely right one.

We're talking about degrees of risk here and no one -- not johnnyo53, not me, not even teejers -- can accurately or, in my view, even reasonably say NOW that the comparative risks of any of the alternatives were so obvious BEFORE the decision that Shaw was wrong -- or that he should now "admit" it.  His "pattern all year" gave us an 11-2 record -- works for me.

As for Bill Roman and the 49ers, forgive me again, but I've forgotten how many times he's called for a field goal attempt in the red zone this year for the 49ers.

Time to turn to basketball...and looking forward to the game [whichever one it turns out to be] where Jordan Williamson's successful shot at redemption brings a smile to my face [and probably even to the faces of those on the BootBoard...]

[76lsjumb]

this decision making by Shaw was just as bad as Harbs against UCLA or kal, but the difference is Harbs took ownership, learned and moved on.  Shaw, didn't, can't, or won't.  that's probably a big reason why Shaw is at Stanford and Bill Roman is OC of the 9ers.

Shaw needs to man the ph*ck up and quit deluding himself, but this was his pattern all year, and it started to hurt his against Oregon (fg in 4 down territory against a team that was going scoreboard you) and probably cost AL the Voldemort down the stretch.

I can only hope that he at least had the sac to tell Polian to hit the road, that might make me feel a little better, but not a lot.

Everyone in that stadium knew he was screwing up at the end of regulation but him.  His carefully reasoned explanation to Tom Fitzgerald smell like Neville Chamberlain to me.

johnnyo53 -- Forgive me, but I've forgotten how many wins you've coached or what your record was in your first season?

I know I've got to give this up and start focusing on how to justify Dawkins' coaching [  ;) ], but I just can't understand the absolute certainty folks have regarding the rightness or wrongness of this decision.  I happened to see a thread on the BootBoard last night when googling to see what I could find out on some recruiting point, and the vitriol expressed over there against Shaw by several posters made that thread on the OSU board about the LSJUMB look like a lovefest...

I wasn't a psych major [nor have I ever played one on TV], but I've got to believe there is a study somewhere showing that, in Monday[or, here, Tuesday]-morning quarterbacking situations, where something bad happened as a result of the decision actually made, there is a natural tendency to OVERESTIMATE the probability of that bad outcome and a similar tendency to UNDERESTIMATE the probability of a bad outcome from the other available alternatives. 

Thus, it becomes more clear to everyone AFTER the kick is missed that a guy who made 6 of 7 from that range during the season, had nailed his last PAT, and had made his last field goal, was, "obviously," a too-young guy, scared out of his mind, incapable of handling the pressure of a fairly routine kick to win a really big game.  Conversely, AFTER the decision is made not to continue trying to score a touchdown, it is also more clear to everyone that we would not have had any false start penalty [making any FG attempt even harder], would not have fumbled a hand-off, would not have thrown an incerception, or, indeed, would not have scored so quickly that we gave OSU enough time to take the ball back down the field on a 50-yard kickoff return followed by two long receptions for Blackmon to score again, but, instead, would have scored a touchdown or magically transformed our too-young, scared out of his mind, etc. kicker into a calm, cool assassin.

If Shaw had stopped at the 45 yard line with 2 minutes to go and sent Willimason out to try a field goal, I would have been among the first people calling for him to be sacked before he could leave the stadium.  But, that's NOT what he did.  The decision he actually made was and is every bit as defensible as the other alternatives that have been posited, ...and vice versa.  But, again, just ask Dabo Sweeney and Clemson what can happen on a routine 2-yard touchdown plunge and then see if you STILL think that Shaw's was the absolutely wrong decision and going for the TD was the absolutely right one.

We're talking about degrees of risk here and no one -- not johnnyo53, not me, not even teejers -- can accurately or, in my view, even reasonably say NOW that the comparative risks of any of the alternatives were so obvious BEFORE the decision that Shaw was wrong -- or that he should now "admit" it.  His "pattern all year" gave us an 11-2 record -- works for me.

As for Bill Roman and the 49ers, forgive me again, but I've forgotten how many times he's called for a field goal attempt in the red zone this year for the 49ers.

Time to turn to basketball...and looking forward to the game [whichever one it turns out to be] where Jordan Williamson's successful shot at redemption brings a smile to my face [and probably even to the faces of those on the BootBoard...]

[76lsjumb]

this decision making by Shaw was just as bad as Harbs against UCLA or kal, but the difference is Harbs took ownership, learned and moved on.  Shaw, didn't, can't, or won't.  that's probably a big reason why Shaw is at Stanford and Bill Roman is OC of the 9ers.

Shaw needs to man the ph*ck up and quit deluding himself, but this was his pattern all year, and it started to hurt his against Oregon (fg in 4 down territory against a team that was going scoreboard you) and probably cost AL the Voldemort down the stretch.

I can only hope that he at least had the sac to tell Polian to hit the road, that might make me feel a little better, but not a lot.

Everyone in that stadium knew he was screwing up at the end of regulation but him.  His carefully reasoned explanation to Tom Fitzgerald smell like Neville Chamberlain to me.

johnnyo53 -- Forgive me, but I've forgotten how many wins you've coached or what your record was in your first season?

I know I've got to give this up and start focusing on how to justify Dawkins' coaching [  ;) ], but I just can't understand the absolute certainty folks have regarding the rightness or wrongness of this decision.  I happened to see a thread on the BootBoard last night when googling to see what I could find out on some recruiting point, and the vitriol expressed over there against Shaw by several posters made that thread on the OSU board about the LSJUMB look like a lovefest...

I wasn't a psych major [nor have I ever played one on TV], but I've got to believe there is a study somewhere showing that, in Monday[or, here, Tuesday]-morning quarterbacking situations, where something bad happened as a result of the decision actually made, there is a natural tendency to OVERESTIMATE the probability of that bad outcome and a similar tendency to UNDERESTIMATE the probability of a bad outcome from the other available alternatives. 

Thus, it becomes more clear to everyone AFTER the kick is missed that a guy who made 6 of 7 from that range during the season, had nailed his last PAT, and had made his last field goal, was, "obviously," a too-young guy, scared out of his mind, incapable of handling the pressure of a fairly routine kick to win a really big game.  Conversely, AFTER the decision is made not to continue trying to score a touchdown, it is also more clear to everyone that we would not have had any false start penalty [making any FG attempt even harder], would not have fumbled a hand-off, would not have thrown an incerception, or, indeed, would not have scored so quickly that we gave OSU enough time to take the ball back down the field on a 50-yard kickoff return followed by two long receptions for Blackmon to score again, but, instead, would have scored a touchdown or magically transformed our too-young, scared out of his mind, etc. kicker into a calm, cool assassin.

If Shaw had stopped at the 45 yard line with 2 minutes to go and sent Willimason out to try a field goal, I would have been among the first people calling for him to be sacked before he could leave the stadium.  But, that's NOT what he did.  The decision he actually made was and is every bit as defensible as the other alternatives that have been posited, ...and vice versa.  But, again, just ask Dabo Sweeney and Clemson what can happen on a routine 2-yard touchdown plunge and then see if you STILL think that Shaw's was the absolutely wrong decision and going for the TD was the absolutely right one.

We're talking about degrees of risk here and no one -- not johnnyo53, not me, not even teejers -- can accurately or, in my view, even reasonably say NOW that the comparative risks of any of the alternatives were so obvious BEFORE the decision that Shaw was wrong -- or that he should now "admit" it.  His "pattern all year" gave us an 11-2 record -- works for me.

As for Bill Roman and the 49ers, forgive me again, but I've forgotten how many times he's called for a field goal attempt in the red zone this year for the 49ers.

Time to turn to basketball...and looking forward to the game [whichever one it turns out to be] where Jordan Williamson's successful shot at redemption brings a smile to my face [and probably even to the faces of those on the BootBoard...]

[76lsjumb]

this decision making by Shaw was just as bad as Harbs against UCLA or kal, but the difference is Harbs took ownership, learned and moved on.  Shaw, didn't, can't, or won't.  that's probably a big reason why Shaw is at Stanford and Bill Roman is OC of the 9ers.

Shaw needs to man the ph*ck up and quit deluding himself, but this was his pattern all year, and it started to hurt his against Oregon (fg in 4 down territory against a team that was going scoreboard you) and probably cost AL the Voldemort down the stretch.

I can only hope that he at least had the sac to tell Polian to hit the road, that might make me feel a little better, but not a lot.

Everyone in that stadium knew he was screwing up at the end of regulation but him.  His carefully reasoned explanation to Tom Fitzgerald smell like Neville Chamberlain to me.

johnnyo53 -- Forgive me, but I've forgotten how many wins you've coached or what your record was in your first season?

I know I've got to give this up and start focusing on how to justify Dawkins' coaching [  ;) ], but I just can't understand the absolute certainty folks have regarding the rightness or wrongness of this decision.  I happened to see a thread on the BootBoard last night when googling to see what I could find out on some recruiting point, and the vitriol expressed over there against Shaw by several posters made that thread on the OSU board about the LSJUMB look like a lovefest...

I wasn't a psych major [nor have I ever played one on TV], but I've got to believe there is a study somewhere showing that, in Monday[or, here, Tuesday]-morning quarterbacking situations, where something bad happened as a result of the decision actually made, there is a natural tendency to OVERESTIMATE the probability of that bad outcome and a similar tendency to UNDERESTIMATE the probability of a bad outcome from the other available alternatives. 

Thus, it becomes more clear to everyone AFTER the kick is missed that a guy who made 6 of 7 from that range during the season, had nailed his last PAT, and had made his last field goal, was, "obviously," a too-young guy, scared out of his mind, incapable of handling the pressure of a fairly routine kick to win a really big game.  Conversely, AFTER the decision is made not to continue trying to score a touchdown, it is also more clear to everyone that we would not have had any false start penalty [making any FG attempt even harder], would not have fumbled a hand-off, would not have thrown an incerception, or, indeed, would not have scored so quickly that we gave OSU enough time to take the ball back down the field on a 50-yard kickoff return followed by two long receptions for Blackmon to score again, but, instead, would have scored a touchdown or magically transformed our too-young, scared out of his mind, etc. kicker into a calm, cool assassin.

If Shaw had stopped at the 45 yard line with 2 minutes to go and sent Willimason out to try a field goal, I would have been among the first people calling for him to be sacked before he could leave the stadium.  But, that's NOT what he did.  The decision he actually made was and is every bit as defensible as the other alternatives that have been posited, ...and vice versa.  But, again, just ask Dabo Sweeney and Clemson what can happen on a routine 2-yard touchdown plunge and then see if you STILL think that Shaw's was the absolutely wrong decision and going for the TD was the absolutely right one.

We're talking about degrees of risk here and no one -- not johnnyo53, not me, not even teejers -- can accurately or, in my view, even reasonably say NOW that the comparative risks of any of the alternatives were so obvious BEFORE the decision that Shaw was wrong -- or that he should now "admit" it.  His "pattern all year" gave us an 11-2 record -- works for me.

As for Bill Roman and the 49ers, forgive me again, but I've forgotten how many times he's called for a field goal attempt in the red zone this year for the 49ers.

Time to turn to basketball...and looking forward to the game [whichever one it turns out to be] where Jordan Williamson's successful shot at redemption brings a smile to my face [and probably even to the faces of those on the BootBoard...]

[76lsjumb]

this decision making by Shaw was just as bad as Harbs against UCLA or kal, but the difference is Harbs took ownership, learned and moved on.  Shaw, didn't, can't, or won't.  that's probably a big reason why Shaw is at Stanford and Bill Roman is OC of the 9ers.

Shaw needs to man the ph*ck up and quit deluding himself, but this was his pattern all year, and it started to hurt his against Oregon (fg in 4 down territory against a team that was going scoreboard you) and probably cost AL the Voldemort down the stretch.

I can only hope that he at least had the sac to tell Polian to hit the road, that might make me feel a little better, but not a lot.

Everyone in that stadium knew he was screwing up at the end of regulation but him.  His carefully reasoned explanation to Tom Fitzgerald smell like Neville Chamberlain to me.

johnnyo53 -- Forgive me, but I've forgotten how many wins you've coached or what your record was in your first season?

I know I've got to give this up and start focusing on how to justify Dawkins' coaching [  ;) ], but I just can't understand the absolute certainty folks have regarding the rightness or wrongness of this decision.  I happened to see a thread on the BootBoard last night when googling to see what I could find out on some recruiting point, and the vitriol expressed over there against Shaw by several posters made that thread on the OSU board about the LSJUMB look like a lovefest...

I wasn't a psych major [nor have I ever played one on TV], but I've got to believe there is a study somewhere showing that, in Monday[or, here, Tuesday]-morning quarterbacking situations, where something bad happened as a result of the decision actually made, there is a natural tendency to OVERESTIMATE the probability of that bad outcome and a similar tendency to UNDERESTIMATE the probability of a bad outcome from the other available alternatives. 

Thus, it becomes more clear to everyone AFTER the kick is missed that a guy who made 6 of 7 from that range during the season, had nailed his last PAT, and had made his last field goal, was, "obviously," a too-young guy, scared out of his mind, incapable of handling the pressure of a fairly routine kick to win a really big game.  Conversely, AFTER the decision is made not to continue trying to score a touchdown, it is also more clear to everyone that we would not have had any false start penalty [making any FG attempt even harder], would not have fumbled a hand-off, would not have thrown an incerception, or, indeed, would not have scored so quickly that we gave OSU enough time to take the ball back down the field on a 50-yard kickoff return followed by two long receptions for Blackmon to score again, but, instead, would have scored a touchdown or magically transformed our too-young, scared out of his mind, etc. kicker into a calm, cool assassin.

If Shaw had stopped at the 45 yard line with 2 minutes to go and sent Willimason out to try a field goal, I would have been among the first people calling for him to be sacked before he could leave the stadium.  But, that's NOT what he did.  The decision he actually made was and is every bit as defensible as the other alternatives that have been posited, ...and vice versa.  But, again, just ask Dabo Sweeney and Clemson what can happen on a routine 2-yard touchdown plunge and then see if you STILL think that Shaw's was the absolutely wrong decision and going for the TD was the absolutely right one.

We're talking about degrees of risk here and no one -- not johnnyo53, not me, not even teejers -- can accurately or, in my view, even reasonably say NOW that the comparative risks of any of the alternatives were so obvious BEFORE the decision that Shaw was wrong -- or that he should now "admit" it.  His "pattern all year" gave us an 11-2 record -- works for me.

As for Bill Roman and the 49ers, forgive me again, but I've forgotten how many times he's called for a field goal attempt in the red zone this year for the 49ers.

Time to turn to basketball...and looking forward to the game [whichever one it turns out to be] where Jordan Williamson's successful shot at redemption brings a smile to my face [and probably even to the faces of those on the BootBoard...]

[76lsjumb]

this decision making by Shaw was just as bad as Harbs against UCLA or kal, but the difference is Harbs took ownership, learned and moved on.  Shaw, didn't, can't, or won't.  that's probably a big reason why Shaw is at Stanford and Bill Roman is OC of the 9ers.

Shaw needs to man the ph*ck up and quit deluding himself, but this was his pattern all year, and it started to hurt his against Oregon (fg in 4 down territory against a team that was going scoreboard you) and probably cost AL the Voldemort down the stretch.

I can only hope that he at least had the sac to tell Polian to hit the road, that might make me feel a little better, but not a lot.

Everyone in that stadium knew he was screwing up at the end of regulation but him.  His carefully reasoned explanation to Tom Fitzgerald smell like Neville Chamberlain to me.

johnnyo53 -- Forgive me, but I've forgotten how many wins you've coached or what your record was in your first season?

I know I've got to give this up and start focusing on how to justify Dawkins' coaching [  ;) ], but I just can't understand the absolute certainty folks have regarding the rightness or wrongness of this decision.  I happened to see a thread on the BootBoard last night when googling to see what I could find out on some recruiting point, and the vitriol expressed over there against Shaw by several posters made that thread on the OSU board about the LSJUMB look like a lovefest...

I wasn't a psych major [nor have I ever played one on TV], but I've got to believe there is a study somewhere showing that, in Monday[or, here, Tuesday]-morning quarterbacking situations, where something bad happened as a result of the decision actually made, there is a natural tendency to OVERESTIMATE the probability of that bad outcome and a similar tendency to UNDERESTIMATE the probability of a bad outcome from the other available alternatives. 

Thus, it becomes more clear to everyone AFTER the kick is missed that a guy who made 6 of 7 from that range during the season, had nailed his last PAT, and had made his last field goal, was, "obviously," a too-young guy, scared out of his mind, incapable of handling the pressure of a fairly routine kick to win a really big game.  Conversely, AFTER the decision is made not to continue trying to score a touchdown, it is also more clear to everyone that we would not have had any false start penalty [making any FG attempt even harder], would not have fumbled a hand-off, would not have thrown an incerception, or, indeed, would not have scored so quickly that we gave OSU enough time to take the ball back down the field on a 50-yard kickoff return followed by two long receptions for Blackmon to score again, but, instead, would have scored a touchdown or magically transformed our too-young, scared out of his mind, etc. kicker into a calm, cool assassin.

If Shaw had stopped at the 45 yard line with 2 minutes to go and sent Willimason out to try a field goal, I would have been among the first people calling for him to be sacked before he could leave the stadium.  But, that's NOT what he did.  The decision he actually made was and is every bit as defensible as the other alternatives that have been posited, ...and vice versa.  But, again, just ask Dabo Sweeney and Clemson what can happen on a routine 2-yard touchdown plunge and then see if you STILL think that Shaw's was the absolutely wrong decision and going for the TD was the absolutely right one.

We're talking about degrees of risk here and no one -- not johnnyo53, not me, not even teejers -- can accurately or, in my view, even reasonably say NOW that the comparative risks of any of the alternatives were so obvious BEFORE the decision that Shaw was wrong -- or that he should now "admit" it.  His "pattern all year" gave us an 11-2 record -- works for me.

As for Bill Roman and the 49ers, forgive me again, but I've forgotten how many times he's called for a field goal attempt in the red zone this year for the 49ers.

Time to turn to basketball...and looking forward to the game [whichever one it turns out to be] where Jordan Williamson's successful shot at redemption brings a smile to my face [and probably even to the faces of those on the BootBoard...]

[76lsjumb]

this decision making by Shaw was just as bad as Harbs against UCLA or kal, but the difference is Harbs took ownership, learned and moved on.  Shaw, didn't, can't, or won't.  that's probably a big reason why Shaw is at Stanford and Bill Roman is OC of the 9ers.

Shaw needs to man the ph*ck up and quit deluding himself, but this was his pattern all year, and it started to hurt his against Oregon (fg in 4 down territory against a team that was going scoreboard you) and probably cost AL the Voldemort down the stretch.

I can only hope that he at least had the sac to tell Polian to hit the road, that might make me feel a little better, but not a lot.

Everyone in that stadium knew he was screwing up at the end of regulation but him.  His carefully reasoned explanation to Tom Fitzgerald smell like Neville Chamberlain to me.

johnnyo53 -- Forgive me, but I've forgotten how many wins you've coached or what your record was in your first season?

I know I've got to give this up and start focusing on how to justify Dawkins' coaching [  ;) ], but I just can't understand the absolute certainty folks have regarding the rightness or wrongness of this decision.  I happened to see a thread on the BootBoard last night when googling to see what I could find out on some recruiting point, and the vitriol expressed over there against Shaw by several posters made that thread on the OSU board about the LSJUMB look like a lovefest...

I wasn't a psych major [nor have I ever played one on TV], but I've got to believe there is a study somewhere showing that, in Monday[or, here, Tuesday]-morning quarterbacking situations, where something bad happened as a result of the decision actually made, there is a natural tendency to OVERESTIMATE the probability of that bad outcome and a similar tendency to UNDERESTIMATE the probability of a bad outcome from the other available alternatives. 

Thus, it becomes more clear to everyone AFTER the kick is missed that a guy who made 6 of 7 from that range during the season, had nailed his last PAT, and had made his last field goal, was, "obviously," a too-young guy, scared out of his mind, incapable of handling the pressure of a fairly routine kick to win a really big game.  Conversely, AFTER the decision is made not to continue trying to score a touchdown, it is also more clear to everyone that we would not have had any false start penalty [making any FG attempt even harder], would not have fumbled a hand-off, would not have thrown an incerception, or, indeed, would not have scored so quickly that we gave OSU enough time to take the ball back down the field on a 50-yard kickoff return followed by two long receptions for Blackmon to score again, but, instead, would have scored a touchdown or magically transformed our too-young, scared out of his mind, etc. kicker into a calm, cool assassin.

If Shaw had stopped at the 45 yard line with 2 minutes to go and sent Willimason out to try a field goal, I would have been among the first people calling for him to be sacked before he could leave the stadium.  But, that's NOT what he did.  The decision he actually made was and is every bit as defensible as the other alternatives that have been posited, ...and vice versa.  But, again, just ask Dabo Sweeney and Clemson what can happen on a routine 2-yard touchdown plunge and then see if you STILL think that Shaw's was the absolutely wrong decision and going for the TD was the absolutely right one.

We're talking about degrees of risk here and no one -- not johnnyo53, not me, not even teejers -- can accurately or, in my view, even reasonably say NOW that the comparative risks of any of the alternatives were so obvious BEFORE the decision that Shaw was wrong -- or that he should now "admit" it.  His "pattern all year" gave us an 11-2 record -- works for me.

As for Bill Roman and the 49ers, forgive me again, but I've forgotten how many times he's called for a field goal attempt in the red zone this year for the 49ers.

Time to turn to basketball...and looking forward to the game [whichever one it turns out to be] where Jordan Williamson's successful shot at redemption brings a smile to my face [and probably even to the faces of those on the BootBoard...]

[washingtonismoney]

I wasn't a psych major [nor have I ever played one on TV], but I've got to believe there is a study somewhere showing that, in Monday[or, here, Tuesday]-morning quarterbacking situations, where something bad happened as a result of the decision actually made, there is a natural tendency to OVERESTIMATE the probability of that bad outcome and a similar tendency to UNDERESTIMATE the probability of a bad outcome from the other available alternatives. 

Thus, it becomes more clear to everyone AFTER the kick is missed that a guy who made 6 of 7 from that range during the season, had nailed his last PAT, and had made his last field goal, was, "obviously," a too-young guy, scared out of his mind, incapable of handling the pressure of a fairly routine kick to win a really big game. 

Speaking for myself, I was saying this right as the drive began. And judging from Twitter, there were plenty of people saying it even before Williamson took the kick.

It was the wrong decision--period.

[washingtonismoney]

I wasn't a psych major [nor have I ever played one on TV], but I've got to believe there is a study somewhere showing that, in Monday[or, here, Tuesday]-morning quarterbacking situations, where something bad happened as a result of the decision actually made, there is a natural tendency to OVERESTIMATE the probability of that bad outcome and a similar tendency to UNDERESTIMATE the probability of a bad outcome from the other available alternatives. 

Thus, it becomes more clear to everyone AFTER the kick is missed that a guy who made 6 of 7 from that range during the season, had nailed his last PAT, and had made his last field goal, was, "obviously," a too-young guy, scared out of his mind, incapable of handling the pressure of a fairly routine kick to win a really big game. 

Speaking for myself, I was saying this right as the drive began. And judging from Twitter, there were plenty of people saying it even before Williamson took the kick.

It was the wrong decision--period.

[washingtonismoney]

I wasn't a psych major [nor have I ever played one on TV], but I've got to believe there is a study somewhere showing that, in Monday[or, here, Tuesday]-morning quarterbacking situations, where something bad happened as a result of the decision actually made, there is a natural tendency to OVERESTIMATE the probability of that bad outcome and a similar tendency to UNDERESTIMATE the probability of a bad outcome from the other available alternatives. 

Thus, it becomes more clear to everyone AFTER the kick is missed that a guy who made 6 of 7 from that range during the season, had nailed his last PAT, and had made his last field goal, was, "obviously," a too-young guy, scared out of his mind, incapable of handling the pressure of a fairly routine kick to win a really big game. 

Speaking for myself, I was saying this right as the drive began. And judging from Twitter, there were plenty of people saying it even before Williamson took the kick.

It was the wrong decision--period.

[washingtonismoney]

I wasn't a psych major [nor have I ever played one on TV], but I've got to believe there is a study somewhere showing that, in Monday[or, here, Tuesday]-morning quarterbacking situations, where something bad happened as a result of the decision actually made, there is a natural tendency to OVERESTIMATE the probability of that bad outcome and a similar tendency to UNDERESTIMATE the probability of a bad outcome from the other available alternatives. 

Thus, it becomes more clear to everyone AFTER the kick is missed that a guy who made 6 of 7 from that range during the season, had nailed his last PAT, and had made his last field goal, was, "obviously," a too-young guy, scared out of his mind, incapable of handling the pressure of a fairly routine kick to win a really big game. 

Speaking for myself, I was saying this right as the drive began. And judging from Twitter, there were plenty of people saying it even before Williamson took the kick.

It was the wrong decision--period.

[washingtonismoney]

I wasn't a psych major [nor have I ever played one on TV], but I've got to believe there is a study somewhere showing that, in Monday[or, here, Tuesday]-morning quarterbacking situations, where something bad happened as a result of the decision actually made, there is a natural tendency to OVERESTIMATE the probability of that bad outcome and a similar tendency to UNDERESTIMATE the probability of a bad outcome from the other available alternatives. 

Thus, it becomes more clear to everyone AFTER the kick is missed that a guy who made 6 of 7 from that range during the season, had nailed his last PAT, and had made his last field goal, was, "obviously," a too-young guy, scared out of his mind, incapable of handling the pressure of a fairly routine kick to win a really big game. 

Speaking for myself, I was saying this right as the drive began. And judging from Twitter, there were plenty of people saying it even before Williamson took the kick.

It was the wrong decision--period.

[washingtonismoney]

I wasn't a psych major [nor have I ever played one on TV], but I've got to believe there is a study somewhere showing that, in Monday[or, here, Tuesday]-morning quarterbacking situations, where something bad happened as a result of the decision actually made, there is a natural tendency to OVERESTIMATE the probability of that bad outcome and a similar tendency to UNDERESTIMATE the probability of a bad outcome from the other available alternatives. 

Thus, it becomes more clear to everyone AFTER the kick is missed that a guy who made 6 of 7 from that range during the season, had nailed his last PAT, and had made his last field goal, was, "obviously," a too-young guy, scared out of his mind, incapable of handling the pressure of a fairly routine kick to win a really big game. 

Speaking for myself, I was saying this right as the drive began. And judging from Twitter, there were plenty of people saying it even before Williamson took the kick.

It was the wrong decision--period.

[washingtonismoney]

I wasn't a psych major [nor have I ever played one on TV], but I've got to believe there is a study somewhere showing that, in Monday[or, here, Tuesday]-morning quarterbacking situations, where something bad happened as a result of the decision actually made, there is a natural tendency to OVERESTIMATE the probability of that bad outcome and a similar tendency to UNDERESTIMATE the probability of a bad outcome from the other available alternatives. 

Thus, it becomes more clear to everyone AFTER the kick is missed that a guy who made 6 of 7 from that range during the season, had nailed his last PAT, and had made his last field goal, was, "obviously," a too-young guy, scared out of his mind, incapable of handling the pressure of a fairly routine kick to win a really big game. 

Speaking for myself, I was saying this right as the drive began. And judging from Twitter, there were plenty of people saying it even before Williamson took the kick.

It was the wrong decision--period.

[washingtonismoney]

I wasn't a psych major [nor have I ever played one on TV], but I've got to believe there is a study somewhere showing that, in Monday[or, here, Tuesday]-morning quarterbacking situations, where something bad happened as a result of the decision actually made, there is a natural tendency to OVERESTIMATE the probability of that bad outcome and a similar tendency to UNDERESTIMATE the probability of a bad outcome from the other available alternatives. 

Thus, it becomes more clear to everyone AFTER the kick is missed that a guy who made 6 of 7 from that range during the season, had nailed his last PAT, and had made his last field goal, was, "obviously," a too-young guy, scared out of his mind, incapable of handling the pressure of a fairly routine kick to win a really big game. 

Speaking for myself, I was saying this right as the drive began. And judging from Twitter, there were plenty of people saying it even before Williamson took the kick.

It was the wrong decision--period.

[DC]

Lost in all this is that on OSU's last TD drive they had a 4th down and about 5, which they converted.  Had we held there on that one play, we almost certainly would have won.

[DC]

Lost in all this is that on OSU's last TD drive they had a 4th down and about 5, which they converted.  Had we held there on that one play, we almost certainly would have won.

[DC]

Lost in all this is that on OSU's last TD drive they had a 4th down and about 5, which they converted.  Had we held there on that one play, we almost certainly would have won.

[DC]

Lost in all this is that on OSU's last TD drive they had a 4th down and about 5, which they converted.  Had we held there on that one play, we almost certainly would have won.

[DC]

Lost in all this is that on OSU's last TD drive they had a 4th down and about 5, which they converted.  Had we held there on that one play, we almost certainly would have won.

[DC]

Lost in all this is that on OSU's last TD drive they had a 4th down and about 5, which they converted.  Had we held there on that one play, we almost certainly would have won.

[DC]

Lost in all this is that on OSU's last TD drive they had a 4th down and about 5, which they converted.  Had we held there on that one play, we almost certainly would have won.

[DC]

Lost in all this is that on OSU's last TD drive they had a 4th down and about 5, which they converted.  Had we held there on that one play, we almost certainly would have won.