[washingtonismoney]

Think there are self-reinforcing dynamics here. If you're a student at the games, you often feel like there's no place for you (there was a game where the spot where the sixth man would be was entirely given over to seats) or that you can cheer or be as boisterous as you'd like. So you don't go as often. Certainly was the case when I was at the school.

[washingtonismoney]

Think there are self-reinforcing dynamics here. If you're a student at the games, you often feel like there's no place for you (there was a game where the spot where the sixth man would be was entirely given over to seats) or that you can cheer or be as boisterous as you'd like. So you don't go as often. Certainly was the case when I was at the school.

[76lsjumb]

Two points:

First, this quote from the article:

A couple thousand Stanford fans have made the three-hour trip from the Bay Area. Like most of this season's average Maples Pavilion crowd of 4,250 - the men averaged 6,856 - they are staunchly loyal to VanDerveer's program.

Having had season tickets to both and attended 90% of the games of both this year, I'm pretty confident in saying that, while the women's number seems accurate, the men's number is totally bogus, at least in terms of actual bodies in the building.  The men probably did draw more [although I'm not 100% sure of that], but the gap was nowhere near that large.

Second, I really hate these types of articles, since they undoubtedly find their way into the recruiting packets used by other schools.  It's not that they reveal "secret information" that isn't otherwise available to potential recruits, but still...  Especially when they quote players.  :o

Of course, there's nothing like, say, a national championship to bring people in...  Go Card!

[76lsjumb]

Two points:

First, this quote from the article:

A couple thousand Stanford fans have made the three-hour trip from the Bay Area. Like most of this season's average Maples Pavilion crowd of 4,250 - the men averaged 6,856 - they are staunchly loyal to VanDerveer's program.

Having had season tickets to both and attended 90% of the games of both this year, I'm pretty confident in saying that, while the women's number seems accurate, the men's number is totally bogus, at least in terms of actual bodies in the building.  The men probably did draw more [although I'm not 100% sure of that], but the gap was nowhere near that large.

Second, I really hate these types of articles, since they undoubtedly find their way into the recruiting packets used by other schools.  It's not that they reveal "secret information" that isn't otherwise available to potential recruits, but still...  Especially when they quote players.  :o

Of course, there's nothing like, say, a national championship to bring people in...  Go Card!

[stanfan]

Interesting point about the lack of student attendance.  We noticed the lack of Oregon students at the Duck/Stanford women's game up here this year.  There were a few boisterous male students in the student section, but almost no female students.  Total attendance was maybe 1500.  While at the game, we wondered why students, and in particular female students, didn't show up to support the Duck team.  From the article, I guess the same question can be asked about games at Stanford.  With all of the push for title IX funding and athletic equality ( a good idea in my view), do others find it strange that so few students show to support the incredibly successful Cardinal women's basketball team?

[stanfan]

Interesting point about the lack of student attendance.  We noticed the lack of Oregon students at the Duck/Stanford women's game up here this year.  There were a few boisterous male students in the student section, but almost no female students.  Total attendance was maybe 1500.  While at the game, we wondered why students, and in particular female students, didn't show up to support the Duck team.  From the article, I guess the same question can be asked about games at Stanford.  With all of the push for title IX funding and athletic equality ( a good idea in my view), do others find it strange that so few students show to support the incredibly successful Cardinal women's basketball team?

[oman]

Fascinating stuff.

I have often wondered if there is something about basketball that leads to a greater disparity in interest among fans (primarily men) in sports where both sexes play?

1) Swimming - I probably prefer women's swimming.

2) Baseball/softball - I am happy at both.

3) Soccer - I enjoy both. 

4) All Olympic sports -- I think I like both.

5) Basketball - for some reason, more than any other "co ed" sport, I find myself thinking that I would rather watch the guys play when I am watching women play.  And I actually think that soccer probably has the greater "speed disparity".

I think this bias is probably explanable as done earlier in this thread -- I may just be one of those uneducated basketball fans who wants more circus-like plays.  And we really only notice it mostly in basketball because women's basketball is pretty well-attended.

[oman]

Fascinating stuff.

I have often wondered if there is something about basketball that leads to a greater disparity in interest among fans (primarily men) in sports where both sexes play?

1) Swimming - I probably prefer women's swimming.

2) Baseball/softball - I am happy at both.

3) Soccer - I enjoy both. 

4) All Olympic sports -- I think I like both.

5) Basketball - for some reason, more than any other "co ed" sport, I find myself thinking that I would rather watch the guys play when I am watching women play.  And I actually think that soccer probably has the greater "speed disparity".

I think this bias is probably explanable as done earlier in this thread -- I may just be one of those uneducated basketball fans who wants more circus-like plays.  And we really only notice it mostly in basketball because women's basketball is pretty well-attended.

[Nan3cy]

We prefer men's volleyball over women's, which is maybe odd, because WVB is clearly a bigger deal than MVB.

[Nan3cy]

We prefer men's volleyball over women's, which is maybe odd, because WVB is clearly a bigger deal than MVB.

[FarmBoy]

Nan3cy - I have attended both gender varieties of volleyball and I gotta say I enjoy the women's more. Men's is so much of a power game, that it can be a tad boring (Serve, bump-set-spike, stir and repeat). Women's has more opportunity for long volleys and the unskilled eye can see more of the plays and skill.

Plus, the girls are just much easier on the eyes... Funny story: I remember going to a game during Kerri Walsh's freshman season and I was basically drooling over her to some of my doormates I'd convinced to come along (mostly drooling over he skill, of course) and this elderly couple behind us spoke up and asked if I would be interested in being introduced to their granddaughter after the game.

[FarmBoy]

Nan3cy - I have attended both gender varieties of volleyball and I gotta say I enjoy the women's more. Men's is so much of a power game, that it can be a tad boring (Serve, bump-set-spike, stir and repeat). Women's has more opportunity for long volleys and the unskilled eye can see more of the plays and skill.

Plus, the girls are just much easier on the eyes... Funny story: I remember going to a game during Kerri Walsh's freshman season and I was basically drooling over her to some of my doormates I'd convinced to come along (mostly drooling over he skill, of course) and this elderly couple behind us spoke up and asked if I would be interested in being introduced to their granddaughter after the game.

[Farm93]

WVB is simply more entertaining than MVB.  WVB includes rallies, and some possibility of defense near the floor.  MVB is all about a bump, a set and a spike.  Only the occasional bad serve, miss hit or lucky block enables teams to win points on serve.  Though for all with the opportunity to attend, the Men's games are great for kids because it is free and your kids can essentially own the building.  That's cool.

Also, the team warms up to popular current music, another plus for kids.

I have a similar view of Women's Pro tennis vs. Men's Pro Tennis.

Back to Women's basketball.  It would be cool for more students to attend, but let's not just diss and dismiss the 4,250 attendance figure.

No other team in the Pac-12 conference is coming close to those numbers.  Given the size of Maples, Stanford Undergrad population and Palo Alto, 4,250 is a pretty decent number.  FWIW, I think Tara is right too.  The team might be missing the 18-49 year old TV demographic, but the women's team is probably doing much better with the under 18 crowd than the men.

A team of 10 year old girls can really pull down the average age of the crowd.  Median and Mode likely remain high, but the mean is probably not that much higher than the men's game.

[Farm93]

WVB is simply more entertaining than MVB.  WVB includes rallies, and some possibility of defense near the floor.  MVB is all about a bump, a set and a spike.  Only the occasional bad serve, miss hit or lucky block enables teams to win points on serve.  Though for all with the opportunity to attend, the Men's games are great for kids because it is free and your kids can essentially own the building.  That's cool.

Also, the team warms up to popular current music, another plus for kids.

I have a similar view of Women's Pro tennis vs. Men's Pro Tennis.

Back to Women's basketball.  It would be cool for more students to attend, but let's not just diss and dismiss the 4,250 attendance figure.

No other team in the Pac-12 conference is coming close to those numbers.  Given the size of Maples, Stanford Undergrad population and Palo Alto, 4,250 is a pretty decent number.  FWIW, I think Tara is right too.  The team might be missing the 18-49 year old TV demographic, but the women's team is probably doing much better with the under 18 crowd than the men.

A team of 10 year old girls can really pull down the average age of the crowd.  Median and Mode likely remain high, but the mean is probably not that much higher than the men's game.

[Nan3cy]

Plus, the girls are just much easier on the eyes...

All depends on who owns the eyes.

Oddly, my husband who takes second place to no man in his appreciation of attractive females, prefers MVB as well. I have no explanation.

[Nan3cy]

Plus, the girls are just much easier on the eyes...

All depends on who owns the eyes.

Oddly, my husband who takes second place to no man in his appreciation of attractive females, prefers MVB as well. I have no explanation.

[fullmetal]

If I understand the sport, I can enjoy it regardless of the gender currently participating.  The only thing I'm not a big fan of in WBK is the weird-looking shot mechanic prevalent in WBK where the ball is shot from in front of the player's face.

[fullmetal]

If I understand the sport, I can enjoy it regardless of the gender currently participating.  The only thing I'm not a big fan of in WBK is the weird-looking shot mechanic prevalent in WBK where the ball is shot from in front of the player's face.

[Ratmandoo]

What schools out there get a large number of students who go to their women's basketball games? Do Tennessee and Connecticut women's program outperform the men in student attendance? I don't know the answer but it seems like this article should have answered this question. I'm not sure this is a Stanford issue but more of a women's basketball vs. men's basketball issue.

Another question is which other sports draw students other than football and basketball? Not a whole lot of students show up for the top ranked baseball, women's tennis, swimming and diving, or women's soccer games either.

What I've seen in the women's basketball crowd this year is an incredibly loyal fan base. It doesn't matter who Stanford plays, there are always at least 2000 people in the stands and it's rarely under 3000. That's certainly not the case for the men (see the first two rounds of the NIT... and the third round against Nevada only got to 3000 because of the Nevada fans). In the last game of the season, the PA announcer asked during each TV timeout for individuals to stand up who have been season ticket holders for 5, 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, etc. It was amazing the percentage of people who are 30+ year season ticket holders for the women (and really sweet to see them bring their grand kids to the games). I'm not sure there's much to complain about in the attendance for women's basketball games. The ONLY true sell out in Maples this year was the women's game against Tennessee. 

[Ratmandoo]

What schools out there get a large number of students who go to their women's basketball games? Do Tennessee and Connecticut women's program outperform the men in student attendance? I don't know the answer but it seems like this article should have answered this question. I'm not sure this is a Stanford issue but more of a women's basketball vs. men's basketball issue.

Another question is which other sports draw students other than football and basketball? Not a whole lot of students show up for the top ranked baseball, women's tennis, swimming and diving, or women's soccer games either.

What I've seen in the women's basketball crowd this year is an incredibly loyal fan base. It doesn't matter who Stanford plays, there are always at least 2000 people in the stands and it's rarely under 3000. That's certainly not the case for the men (see the first two rounds of the NIT... and the third round against Nevada only got to 3000 because of the Nevada fans). In the last game of the season, the PA announcer asked during each TV timeout for individuals to stand up who have been season ticket holders for 5, 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, etc. It was amazing the percentage of people who are 30+ year season ticket holders for the women (and really sweet to see them bring their grand kids to the games). I'm not sure there's much to complain about in the attendance for women's basketball games. The ONLY true sell out in Maples this year was the women's game against Tennessee. 

[M T]

First, this quote from the article:

A couple thousand Stanford fans have made the three-hour trip from the Bay Area. Like most of this season's average Maples Pavilion crowd of 4,250 - the men averaged 6,856 - they are staunchly loyal to VanDerveer's program.

Having had season tickets to both and attended 90% of the games of both this year, I'm pretty confident in saying that, while the women's number seems accurate, the men's number is totally bogus, at least in terms of actual bodies in the building.  The men probably did draw more [although I'm not 100% sure of that], but the gap was nowhere near that large.

76LSJUMB, you are absolutely right.  I have written the author of the article alerting him to his factual error.  6856 is the men's average for AWAY games.  At Maples, the men's average attendance is 4891.  That number was hurt by the NIT games.  Before the NIT, the average was 1000 higher.

[M T]

First, this quote from the article:

A couple thousand Stanford fans have made the three-hour trip from the Bay Area. Like most of this season's average Maples Pavilion crowd of 4,250 - the men averaged 6,856 - they are staunchly loyal to VanDerveer's program.

Having had season tickets to both and attended 90% of the games of both this year, I'm pretty confident in saying that, while the women's number seems accurate, the men's number is totally bogus, at least in terms of actual bodies in the building.  The men probably did draw more [although I'm not 100% sure of that], but the gap was nowhere near that large.

76LSJUMB, you are absolutely right.  I have written the author of the article alerting him to his factual error.  6856 is the men's average for AWAY games.  At Maples, the men's average attendance is 4891.  That number was hurt by the NIT games.  Before the NIT, the average was 1000 higher.

[pefloresjr]

I can certainly tell you that the last four years, there's no question that I'd prefer to be watching women's basketball over mens.

Well, based on the article, it is probably because you are now a geezer. 

Cheers,
Pete F.

[pefloresjr]

I can certainly tell you that the last four years, there's no question that I'd prefer to be watching women's basketball over mens.

Well, based on the article, it is probably because you are now a geezer. 

Cheers,
Pete F.

[BobK]

The corrected number for MBB games at Stanford is NOT actual attendance but tickets sold.  For the Women it's attendance.  So the difference is even less.

Tommy F or his ghost writer walks into the Dog House in Fresno and sees 20 Stanford Women Water Polo players and 60 or so older fans and says all the fans are old and few students attend games.  Yet the Water Polo team drove from Stanford out of there way to Santa Barbara to attend the game in Fresn oon on Saturday. 

Boo Tommy F.

[BobK]

The corrected number for MBB games at Stanford is NOT actual attendance but tickets sold.  For the Women it's attendance.  So the difference is even less.

Tommy F or his ghost writer walks into the Dog House in Fresno and sees 20 Stanford Women Water Polo players and 60 or so older fans and says all the fans are old and few students attend games.  Yet the Water Polo team drove from Stanford out of there way to Santa Barbara to attend the game in Fresn oon on Saturday. 

Boo Tommy F.