[FarmBoy]

These posts comparing Dawkins to Montgomery are ridiculous.

Though perhaps not as ridiculous as a post claiming that Indiana is one of the top 5 programs in NCAA basketball. Really? No championships in 25 years, getting past the first weekend a grand total of twice in the past 15 years, and 10 years since the last Big 10 conference champ, and you consider them a top 5 program? Does that put Stanford in the top 10?

Honestly, it's a pointless discussion. If you don't believe that the fans of Illinois, Northwestern, Ole Miss, Virginia Tech, or any other number of middling to poor teams in a major conferences wouldn't be putting more butts in seats if their team started a season 13-3 with an appearance in the preseason NIT championship and 5-1 record in conference, you don't see how different Stanford is to most other major conference programs. Heck, Minnesota has posted back to back 6-12 seasons in the Big 10 and apparently they continue to increase ticket sales.

Mark my words, as soon as Stanford has a bit of success, and other schools come knocking on the door, Dawkins will be out the door, and fan support will be an unspoken, but definite factor. He witnessed first hand the poor support for Harbaugh even as he built the program from nothing to a BCS contender. James Vaughters was quoted after the Stanford-Arizona game in 2010 as being surprised to see how empty the stadium was despite it being a match up of two top-25 teams. Luckily Vaughters saw the value of the school and signed anyway, but for a lot of young men, empty stadiums are going to be a big recruiting deterrent. And that's not an up hill battle any coach relishes.

[FarmBoy]

These posts comparing Dawkins to Montgomery are ridiculous.

Though perhaps not as ridiculous as a post claiming that Indiana is one of the top 5 programs in NCAA basketball. Really? No championships in 25 years, getting past the first weekend a grand total of twice in the past 15 years, and 10 years since the last Big 10 conference champ, and you consider them a top 5 program? Does that put Stanford in the top 10?

Honestly, it's a pointless discussion. If you don't believe that the fans of Illinois, Northwestern, Ole Miss, Virginia Tech, or any other number of middling to poor teams in a major conferences wouldn't be putting more butts in seats if their team started a season 13-3 with an appearance in the preseason NIT championship and 5-1 record in conference, you don't see how different Stanford is to most other major conference programs. Heck, Minnesota has posted back to back 6-12 seasons in the Big 10 and apparently they continue to increase ticket sales.

Mark my words, as soon as Stanford has a bit of success, and other schools come knocking on the door, Dawkins will be out the door, and fan support will be an unspoken, but definite factor. He witnessed first hand the poor support for Harbaugh even as he built the program from nothing to a BCS contender. James Vaughters was quoted after the Stanford-Arizona game in 2010 as being surprised to see how empty the stadium was despite it being a match up of two top-25 teams. Luckily Vaughters saw the value of the school and signed anyway, but for a lot of young men, empty stadiums are going to be a big recruiting deterrent. And that's not an up hill battle any coach relishes.

[76lsjumb]

garvin -- I'm going with RW Emerson on this one.  No hobgoblins for me!  ;D

But, for the record, I'm saying a case can be made that Dawkins, right now, is at least as good as Monty in 1990.  As for Dawkins 22 years from now, I'll have to get back to you on that one.

[76lsjumb]

garvin -- I'm going with RW Emerson on this one.  No hobgoblins for me!  ;D

But, for the record, I'm saying a case can be made that Dawkins, right now, is at least as good as Monty in 1990.  As for Dawkins 22 years from now, I'll have to get back to you on that one.

[teejers1]

"Mark my words, as soon as Stanford has a bit of success, and other schools come knocking on the door, Dawkins will be out the door, and fan support will be an unspoken, but definite factor."

What's your point?

You think this is some kind of revelation?

Stanford is a different animal for a coach, with unique drawbacks and benefits.  There is absolutely nothing novel about these observations.

The only question is whether or not the coach "gets" Stanford and is willing to embrace Stanford's unique situation, which necessarily entails some long-term thinking, imo.  If fan attendance is your bugaboo, coach, here's a suggestion:  build a winner!

You think Dawkins will go because there aren't enough fans in the stands.  Maybe.  But if you're right, then Dawkins was not the right Stanford hire from the get-go.

[teejers1]

"Mark my words, as soon as Stanford has a bit of success, and other schools come knocking on the door, Dawkins will be out the door, and fan support will be an unspoken, but definite factor."

What's your point?

You think this is some kind of revelation?

Stanford is a different animal for a coach, with unique drawbacks and benefits.  There is absolutely nothing novel about these observations.

The only question is whether or not the coach "gets" Stanford and is willing to embrace Stanford's unique situation, which necessarily entails some long-term thinking, imo.  If fan attendance is your bugaboo, coach, here's a suggestion:  build a winner!

You think Dawkins will go because there aren't enough fans in the stands.  Maybe.  But if you're right, then Dawkins was not the right Stanford hire from the get-go.

[Leftcoast]

Please don't blame the fans ALONE for the lack of support when so many fan UN-friendly policies were put in place over the last few  years.

You don't double ticket prices and add an expensive PSL requirement as part of ticket renewal for your longterm fans without an impact on your fanbase.  And if you are dumb enough to do that while changing coaches, during the worst recession of a generation and while your program is experiencing its worst downturn of the previous 25 years then, well, we're lucky the results aren't worse. 

I know of quite a few season ticket holders who took the assault on their pocketbooks personally.  Very few cheerfully moved from their long term seats to affordable seats in the rafters.  Some moved on to Tara's team (an affordable winner!), some host viewing parties at their home while vowing to not buy another men's ticket, personally I gave up my 4 season tickets and now cherry pick a few interesting men's and women's games every year.  (My wife understandably argued that the rising cost of season tix to three Stanford sports was no longer justified.)

My guess is the stadium would still be mostly full without the above marketing blunders.  Long term this may pay off for the Athletic Department but Stanford will need to win a lot of new fans to replace the ones driven away.  That takes time.

[Leftcoast]

Please don't blame the fans ALONE for the lack of support when so many fan UN-friendly policies were put in place over the last few  years.

You don't double ticket prices and add an expensive PSL requirement as part of ticket renewal for your longterm fans without an impact on your fanbase.  And if you are dumb enough to do that while changing coaches, during the worst recession of a generation and while your program is experiencing its worst downturn of the previous 25 years then, well, we're lucky the results aren't worse. 

I know of quite a few season ticket holders who took the assault on their pocketbooks personally.  Very few cheerfully moved from their long term seats to affordable seats in the rafters.  Some moved on to Tara's team (an affordable winner!), some host viewing parties at their home while vowing to not buy another men's ticket, personally I gave up my 4 season tickets and now cherry pick a few interesting men's and women's games every year.  (My wife understandably argued that the rising cost of season tix to three Stanford sports was no longer justified.)

My guess is the stadium would still be mostly full without the above marketing blunders.  Long term this may pay off for the Athletic Department but Stanford will need to win a lot of new fans to replace the ones driven away.  That takes time.

[76lsjumb]

From Lefty's keyboard to Bowlsby's ears...if only!  >:(

[76lsjumb]

From Lefty's keyboard to Bowlsby's ears...if only!  >:(