[Hey]

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/...-sanctions

This is unfortunate.  The bright spot is that, again, I'm always proud that this kind of headline doesn't appear at Stanford.

[Hey]

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/...-sanctions

This is unfortunate.  The bright spot is that, again, I'm always proud that this kind of headline doesn't appear at Stanford.

[washingtonismoney]

Like a lot of NCAA rule-breaking, I'm left with a sense of "meh" after reading it. Phone calls? Texts? That's it? Come on now. If ever there were a bureaucracy run amok...

[washingtonismoney]

Like a lot of NCAA rule-breaking, I'm left with a sense of "meh" after reading it. Phone calls? Texts? That's it? Come on now. If ever there were a bureaucracy run amok...

[fullmetal]

Kids live and breathe on attention, so I don't doubt that extra attention could be a significant, unfair recruiting advantage.

[fullmetal]

Kids live and breathe on attention, so I don't doubt that extra attention could be a significant, unfair recruiting advantage.

[81alum]

On the women's side it sounds like the biggest violation was extensive recruiting that happened when Griner was attending a basketball camp at Baylor, talking to her parents, etc.  I don't understand the rules, but it sounds like a lot more than a few text messages.

[81alum]

On the women's side it sounds like the biggest violation was extensive recruiting that happened when Griner was attending a basketball camp at Baylor, talking to her parents, etc.  I don't understand the rules, but it sounds like a lot more than a few text messages.

[Griffins78]

Unfortunately breaking the recruiting rules meant to protect kids and create a level playing field have very little consequence so the benefit of cheating to get top recruits like Griner far, far out weigh the minuscule penalties.

I didnt want to mention it but at the Final Four the player introductions for Baylor stood out like a sore thumb. While student athletes from Notre Dame, UConn, and of course Stanford were all majoring in degrees any parent would be proud of and more importantly could lead to a career after basketball, 4 of the 5 starters for Baylor are majoring in Recreation. Sad testament, along with the recruiting violations, of the importance Baylor puts on winning over other virtues. And after 40 years of Title IX these women athletes at Baylor get to compete for Baylor glory and get a degree in recreation in return.

[Griffins78]

Unfortunately breaking the recruiting rules meant to protect kids and create a level playing field have very little consequence so the benefit of cheating to get top recruits like Griner far, far out weigh the minuscule penalties.

I didnt want to mention it but at the Final Four the player introductions for Baylor stood out like a sore thumb. While student athletes from Notre Dame, UConn, and of course Stanford were all majoring in degrees any parent would be proud of and more importantly could lead to a career after basketball, 4 of the 5 starters for Baylor are majoring in Recreation. Sad testament, along with the recruiting violations, of the importance Baylor puts on winning over other virtues. And after 40 years of Title IX these women athletes at Baylor get to compete for Baylor glory and get a degree in recreation in return.

[yvonne]

While student athletes from the University of South Bend, UConn, and of course Stanford were all majoring in degrees any parent would be proud of and more importantly could lead to a career after basketball, 4 of the 5 starters for Baylor are majoring in Recreation.

That's a major? I mean really! Even phys ed majors have to worry about the "ed" part. That's like asking, "What's your major?" and getting the response, "playing!" Even kindergarten report cards try to sound more legitimate than that!

[yvonne]

While student athletes from the University of South Bend, UConn, and of course Stanford were all majoring in degrees any parent would be proud of and more importantly could lead to a career after basketball, 4 of the 5 starters for Baylor are majoring in Recreation.

That's a major? I mean really! Even phys ed majors have to worry about the "ed" part. That's like asking, "What's your major?" and getting the response, "playing!" Even kindergarten report cards try to sound more legitimate than that!

[fullmetal]

If I asked a student-athlete what s/he was majoring in and got the response, "Recreation," I would assume that s/he was just being witty and might continue by asking for their real major...

[fullmetal]

If I asked a student-athlete what s/he was majoring in and got the response, "Recreation," I would assume that s/he was just being witty and might continue by asking for their real major...

[washingtonismoney]

If there shouldn't be rules on the number of texts and phone calls, why should there be limits on the number of visits to campus, or limitations on in-home recruitment, or designated quiet periods when no recruiting is allowed? The reaction of Baylor certainly doesn't seem to be "meh." The self-imposed penalties on scholarships are significant. They seem to understand that they've committed a serious violation.

Well of course they've self-imposed penalties--they want to avoid more serious penalties. It doesn't necessarily mean the rules or the penalties derived from breaking them are good ones. I think most NCAA rules could use serious scrutiny as to whether they're necessary and proper. Take the texting crackdown. Many, if not most, of the kids recruited around the time of NCAA text regulations being handed down were actually unhappy with the texting regulations because they preferred that form of communication. From observed experience, many of the NCAA rules serve to reduce the flow of information exchanged by both parties in the recruiting relationship and make recruitment more stressful and annoying.

[washingtonismoney]

If there shouldn't be rules on the number of texts and phone calls, why should there be limits on the number of visits to campus, or limitations on in-home recruitment, or designated quiet periods when no recruiting is allowed? The reaction of Baylor certainly doesn't seem to be "meh." The self-imposed penalties on scholarships are significant. They seem to understand that they've committed a serious violation.

Well of course they've self-imposed penalties--they want to avoid more serious penalties. It doesn't necessarily mean the rules or the penalties derived from breaking them are good ones. I think most NCAA rules could use serious scrutiny as to whether they're necessary and proper. Take the texting crackdown. Many, if not most, of the kids recruited around the time of NCAA text regulations being handed down were actually unhappy with the texting regulations because they preferred that form of communication. From observed experience, many of the NCAA rules serve to reduce the flow of information exchanged by both parties in the recruiting relationship and make recruitment more stressful and annoying.

[81alum]

To answer the question about the "Recreation" major...at my university it is called "Recreation and Leisure Studies" and is an applied major that trains students to manage city parks, gyms, community centers, athletic facilities, military recreation centers, etc.  It is one pathway into the sports industry and is a popular major with athletes who want a career in athletics after their competitive days are over without necessarily coaching.

That said,  I have always been personally skeptical of the merits of highly applied majors.  Polytechnic and comprehensive universities also sport majors in "Hospitality Management" and "Packaging" so I suppose this is no worse.  I am proud that Stanford has resisted the creation of those majors--undergraduate degrees in Business and Education also fit this applied category to a lesser degree.  I am quite surprised to see that Baylor offers this, since it does not normally fit the profile for an elite private university which I think Baylor aspires to be.   

What is suspicious to me is not the major per se, but the fact that virtually all the Baylor players are majoring in the same thing.  That is a warning flag to me. 

[81alum]

To answer the question about the "Recreation" major...at my university it is called "Recreation and Leisure Studies" and is an applied major that trains students to manage city parks, gyms, community centers, athletic facilities, military recreation centers, etc.  It is one pathway into the sports industry and is a popular major with athletes who want a career in athletics after their competitive days are over without necessarily coaching.

That said,  I have always been personally skeptical of the merits of highly applied majors.  Polytechnic and comprehensive universities also sport majors in "Hospitality Management" and "Packaging" so I suppose this is no worse.  I am proud that Stanford has resisted the creation of those majors--undergraduate degrees in Business and Education also fit this applied category to a lesser degree.  I am quite surprised to see that Baylor offers this, since it does not normally fit the profile for an elite private university which I think Baylor aspires to be.   

What is suspicious to me is not the major per se, but the fact that virtually all the Baylor players are majoring in the same thing.  That is a warning flag to me. 

[flake]

I whole heartedly agree about your concern 81Alumn.

As someone who has a "useless degree", I often take offense when people put down non-pratical degrees. I suspect that someone can get a degree in recreation, and have it be something that pushes them and thus be a very valid degree. I also suspect it is a degree that you can coast and not do much.

The fact that much of the team is in the same degree path seems would seem to indicate that most/many are taking it as a safe degree, which sabotages the usefulness of college. A shame.

( For what it is worth, I have a BFA in painting, and have had a successful career in software engineering and am shocked at how my useless degree has been useful ).

--

I get really torn on this. I feel if Baylor's cheated, then they should feel the repercussions, but really the players themselves did nothing wrong and they should not be put into such a position.

[flake]

I whole heartedly agree about your concern 81Alumn.

As someone who has a "useless degree", I often take offense when people put down non-pratical degrees. I suspect that someone can get a degree in recreation, and have it be something that pushes them and thus be a very valid degree. I also suspect it is a degree that you can coast and not do much.

The fact that much of the team is in the same degree path seems would seem to indicate that most/many are taking it as a safe degree, which sabotages the usefulness of college. A shame.

( For what it is worth, I have a BFA in painting, and have had a successful career in software engineering and am shocked at how my useless degree has been useful ).

--

I get really torn on this. I feel if Baylor's cheated, then they should feel the repercussions, but really the players themselves did nothing wrong and they should not be put into such a position.

[needle]

Women's basketball, just like any other sport, has its constantly churning rumor mill. And in regard to Baylor's recruitment of center Brittney Griner, the fact that coach Kim Mulkey's daughter, Makenzie Robertson, and Griner were on the same DFW Elite Basketball club team, along with other current Baylor players, was grist for the mill during that process.

http://es.pn/HvHM2p

[needle]

Women's basketball, just like any other sport, has its constantly churning rumor mill. And in regard to Baylor's recruitment of center Brittney Griner, the fact that coach Kim Mulkey's daughter, Makenzie Robertson, and Griner were on the same DFW Elite Basketball club team, along with other current Baylor players, was grist for the mill during that process.

http://es.pn/HvHM2p

[Griffins78]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ncaa-puts-...story.html

Baylor Basketball's Self-Imposed Penalties for Violations Deemed Enough by NCAA

[Griffins78]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ncaa-puts-...story.html

Baylor Basketball's Self-Imposed Penalties for Violations Deemed Enough by NCAA

[fullmetal]

Sounds like a cheap price to pay for a national championship.

[fullmetal]

Sounds like a cheap price to pay for a national championship.

[jayasena]

To answer the question about the "Recreation" major...at my university it is called "Recreation and Leisure Studies" and is an applied major that trains students to manage city parks, gyms, community centers, athletic facilities, military recreation centers, etc.  It is one pathway into the sports industry and is a popular major with athletes who want a career in athletics after their competitive days are over without necessarily coaching.

That said,  I have always been personally skeptical of the merits of highly applied majors.  Polytechnic and comprehensive universities also sport majors in "Hospitality Management" and "Packaging" so I suppose this is no worse.  I am proud that Stanford has resisted the creation of those majors--undergraduate degrees in Business and Education also fit this applied category to a lesser degree.  I am quite surprised to see that Baylor offers this, since it does not normally fit the profile for an elite private university which I think Baylor aspires to be.

I think there's a vast difference between applied majors and highly specialized applied majors. There is a sizable body of formal knowledge in areas like business management and education that justifies several years of study. I fail to see how that's the case with managing city parks or gyms (aside from general management). To me, that's the equivalent of a Chemistry Education major or a Carpet Cleaning Business major. I see a problem with the existence of the major as well as its popularity with Baylor athletes.

And this is quite different from what gesso referred to as "useless" degrees in the arts etc., where direct career paths may seem limited but there's no question about the existence of material to learn.

[jayasena]

To answer the question about the "Recreation" major...at my university it is called "Recreation and Leisure Studies" and is an applied major that trains students to manage city parks, gyms, community centers, athletic facilities, military recreation centers, etc.  It is one pathway into the sports industry and is a popular major with athletes who want a career in athletics after their competitive days are over without necessarily coaching.

That said,  I have always been personally skeptical of the merits of highly applied majors.  Polytechnic and comprehensive universities also sport majors in "Hospitality Management" and "Packaging" so I suppose this is no worse.  I am proud that Stanford has resisted the creation of those majors--undergraduate degrees in Business and Education also fit this applied category to a lesser degree.  I am quite surprised to see that Baylor offers this, since it does not normally fit the profile for an elite private university which I think Baylor aspires to be.

I think there's a vast difference between applied majors and highly specialized applied majors. There is a sizable body of formal knowledge in areas like business management and education that justifies several years of study. I fail to see how that's the case with managing city parks or gyms (aside from general management). To me, that's the equivalent of a Chemistry Education major or a Carpet Cleaning Business major. I see a problem with the existence of the major as well as its popularity with Baylor athletes.

And this is quite different from what gesso referred to as "useless" degrees in the arts etc., where direct career paths may seem limited but there's no question about the existence of material to learn.