[readarmy1976]

I work for 50 year old lady. She just hired a person to manage the business. This person has never had a real job (house wife) let alone managed a business with 10 employees. She'll take a whole day to redo signs that we already have, when half the things in the store dont have signs. A total disaster for the business. But, she happens to be another 50 year old lady with similar attitudes. My point is that people regularly make critical hiring decisions based on similar personality. Quiet, cerebral nunes is much more like Shaw than cocky, take-charge Nottingham.

[readarmy1976]

I work for 50 year old lady. She just hired a person to manage the business. This person has never had a real job (house wife) let alone managed a business with 10 employees. She'll take a whole day to redo signs that we already have, when half the things in the store dont have signs. A total disaster for the business. But, she happens to be another 50 year old lady with similar attitudes. My point is that people regularly make critical hiring decisions based on similar personality. Quiet, cerebral nunes is much more like Shaw than cocky, take-charge Nottingham.

[oman]

"Excitement is always more important than winning."  Vince Lombardi is trying to escape his grave to slap you upside the head, Oman.

VL had to win to eat.

My introduction to Stanford football was going to school when Elway was our quarterback.  I witnessed more excitement than winning and I was fine with it.

Exciting football is to winning as great sex is to successful implantation.

[oman]

"Excitement is always more important than winning."  Vince Lombardi is trying to escape his grave to slap you upside the head, Oman.

VL had to win to eat.

My introduction to Stanford football was going to school when Elway was our quarterback.  I witnessed more excitement than winning and I was fine with it.

Exciting football is to winning as great sex is to successful implantation.

[stan01]

A look into Josh Nunes the recruit:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruitin...id=3403040
http://www.rockytoptalk.com/2008/6/25/55...a-is-highe

Did he decommit before or after Kiffin was named Tennessee's coach?

[stan01]

A look into Josh Nunes the recruit:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruitin...id=3403040
http://www.rockytoptalk.com/2008/6/25/55...a-is-highe

Did he decommit before or after Kiffin was named Tennessee's coach?

[oman]

I work for 50 year old lady. She just hired a person to manage the business. This person has never had a real job (house wife) let alone managed a business with 10 employees. She'll take a whole day to redo signs that we already have, when half the things in the store dont have signs. A total disaster for the business. But, she happens to be another 50 year old lady with similar attitudes.

Is sounds like a good setup for a Faulkner novel.

Lister looked at Big Un and Auntie Sue said "Where the signs?" and Auntie Sue hit me and asked again and Big Un yelled "Right here" and Auntie Sue glared at me. 

"Sweet tea?" I asked Auntie Sue but Auntie Sue was looking over the signs.  "Look Miss Sue" said Lister, "I made a flag instead of a sign!"

[oman]

I work for 50 year old lady. She just hired a person to manage the business. This person has never had a real job (house wife) let alone managed a business with 10 employees. She'll take a whole day to redo signs that we already have, when half the things in the store dont have signs. A total disaster for the business. But, she happens to be another 50 year old lady with similar attitudes.

Is sounds like a good setup for a Faulkner novel.

Lister looked at Big Un and Auntie Sue said "Where the signs?" and Auntie Sue hit me and asked again and Big Un yelled "Right here" and Auntie Sue glared at me. 

"Sweet tea?" I asked Auntie Sue but Auntie Sue was looking over the signs.  "Look Miss Sue" said Lister, "I made a flag instead of a sign!"

[yvonne]

This story was linked in the Rocky Top Talk article Stan01 posted. Fulmer was coach when Nunes was being recruited. It sounds like the Vol fans were very excited to get him.

http://tennessee.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=821091

[yvonne]

This story was linked in the Rocky Top Talk article Stan01 posted. Fulmer was coach when Nunes was being recruited. It sounds like the Vol fans were very excited to get him.

http://tennessee.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=821091

[oman]

I have to say the thought of being disappointed by this decision just seems crazy to me, because both quarterbacks to me are a heck of a lot more similar than dissimilar. 

I mean, if it was between Nunes and some kid who had the state record in the 100 yard dash of was some playmaker on both sides of the ball.

Both these guys look great and Shaw and Hamilton have slightly more inside info than we do.

[oman]

I have to say the thought of being disappointed by this decision just seems crazy to me, because both quarterbacks to me are a heck of a lot more similar than dissimilar. 

I mean, if it was between Nunes and some kid who had the state record in the 100 yard dash of was some playmaker on both sides of the ball.

Both these guys look great and Shaw and Hamilton have slightly more inside info than we do.

[readarmy1976]

Shaw didn't want another star qb (jealous) so he picked Nunes. All the credit should go to Shaw and his system. The QB is just there as a game manager.

[readarmy1976]

Shaw didn't want another star qb (jealous) so he picked Nunes. All the credit should go to Shaw and his system. The QB is just there as a game manager.

[washingtonismoney]

Hey, red army: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1PqslRMWaE#t=0m49s

[washingtonismoney]

Hey, red army: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1PqslRMWaE#t=0m49s

[stan01]

Did he decommit before or after Kiffin was named Tennessee's coach?

Answering my own question now that I have a bit more time.  The Nunes - Kiffin game on Sept 15 will not have any added personal animosity.

- June '08: Nunes committed to Tennessee
- Sept 24 '08: Nunes changed his status to a "soft verbal," citing the long distance from his family in Southern California (apparently, the distance became an issue when he had to get back from a TN visit for a family emergency)
http://www.govolsxtra.com/news/2008/sep/...cruitment/
- Sept 27 '08: Nunes committed to Stanford
http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=2...95119.html
- late Nov '08: news leaks that Kiffin was becoming TN's coach

[stan01]

Did he decommit before or after Kiffin was named Tennessee's coach?

Answering my own question now that I have a bit more time.  The Nunes - Kiffin game on Sept 15 will not have any added personal animosity.

- June '08: Nunes committed to Tennessee
- Sept 24 '08: Nunes changed his status to a "soft verbal," citing the long distance from his family in Southern California (apparently, the distance became an issue when he had to get back from a TN visit for a family emergency)
http://www.govolsxtra.com/news/2008/sep/...cruitment/
- Sept 27 '08: Nunes committed to Stanford
http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=2...95119.html
- late Nov '08: news leaks that Kiffin was becoming TN's coach

[socalstanfan1]

After reading an interview with Shaw about his description, the one thing he specifically mentioned that Nunes did better than anyone else was choose between the multiple play options that Stanford sends into the huddle.  Get three plays, go to the line of scrimmage, survey the defense then make the choice.  It seems to me that may have been the biggest difference.

I actually feel a lot better about the decision after reading the interview.  Still a bit concerned about the reports that Nunes may not have the arm strenghth to stretch the field.  I'm nervous that could make it harder to run when safeties start cheating up and daring Nunes to throw long.  But Shaw seems to think that won't be a brobdingnagian issue.  Hope he's right.

http://stanford.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1399338

[socalstanfan1]

After reading an interview with Shaw about his description, the one thing he specifically mentioned that Nunes did better than anyone else was choose between the multiple play options that Stanford sends into the huddle.  Get three plays, go to the line of scrimmage, survey the defense then make the choice.  It seems to me that may have been the biggest difference.

I actually feel a lot better about the decision after reading the interview.  Still a bit concerned about the reports that Nunes may not have the arm strenghth to stretch the field.  I'm nervous that could make it harder to run when safeties start cheating up and daring Nunes to throw long.  But Shaw seems to think that won't be a brobdingnagian issue.  Hope he's right.

http://stanford.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1399338

[washingtonismoney]

I actually feel a lot better about the decision after reading the interview.  Still a bit concerned about the reports that Nunes may not have the arm strenghth to stretch the field.  I'm nervous that could make it harder to run when safeties start cheating up and daring Nunes to throw long.  But Shaw seems to think that won't be a of extremely large proportions issue.  Hope he's right.

I've never seen a report that suggests Nunes has inadequate or bad arm strength, just that it's not the cannon Nottingham has. Which is more than fine.

Here's ESPN's scouting breakdown on him from high school:

Nunes wasn't well-known early in the recruiting period, but that won't be the case for long. He is a very polished and savvy quarterback. He's a well-coached pocket passer who understands the game, works through progressions and has the arm to make any throw. His ball handling, timing and footwork are among the best in this year's quarterback class. Appears to have spent a lot of time perfecting his mechanics and technique. He's highly competitive and has a good frame and athleticism for the position. Has outstanding vision and recognition, and makes excellent pre-snap reads when attacking defenses. Excels at throwing in rhythm and with timing off three- and five-step drops. Throws to where his receivers can make the catch and immediately get upfield. Has outstanding pocket awareness and instincts when creating throwing lanes inside pocket. Can slide and buy time when reading through his progressions. Has the quick, smooth delivery to consistently beat the pass rush with his arm. Gets rid of the ball quickly and can change ball speeds with touch, zip and RPMs. Shows very good accuracy on short and intermediate throws. Has the arm strength to attack vertically, with good downfield accuracy. Needs to add significant bulk and strength to his frame. Lacks ideal mobility, but throws on the move effectively from the outside edges of the pocket. With a big senior year, Nunes--who is similar to Mike Glennon (class of 2007) in his methods--could be the surprise quarterback of this class. He's an excellent prospect whose name should get around quickly.

Nunes' class of 2009 peers:
Matt Barkley, Aaron Murray, Tajh Boyd, Bryn Renner, AJ McCarron, Jordan Wynn, Brock Osweiler (but of course your usual assortment of gah QBs, e.g. Garrett Gilbert).

Nottingham's class of 2010 peers: Tyler Bray, Sean Mannion, Bryan Bennett, Tanner Price, Connor Halliday.

Safe to say Nunes' peer group looks a lot better, though I don't think that's a terribly strong predictor. Nevertheless if Nunes looked like a good prospect relative to some players who turned out to be pretty good players, it's a positive sign, I think.

[washingtonismoney]

I actually feel a lot better about the decision after reading the interview.  Still a bit concerned about the reports that Nunes may not have the arm strenghth to stretch the field.  I'm nervous that could make it harder to run when safeties start cheating up and daring Nunes to throw long.  But Shaw seems to think that won't be a of extremely large proportions issue.  Hope he's right.

I've never seen a report that suggests Nunes has inadequate or bad arm strength, just that it's not the cannon Nottingham has. Which is more than fine.

Here's ESPN's scouting breakdown on him from high school:

Nunes wasn't well-known early in the recruiting period, but that won't be the case for long. He is a very polished and savvy quarterback. He's a well-coached pocket passer who understands the game, works through progressions and has the arm to make any throw. His ball handling, timing and footwork are among the best in this year's quarterback class. Appears to have spent a lot of time perfecting his mechanics and technique. He's highly competitive and has a good frame and athleticism for the position. Has outstanding vision and recognition, and makes excellent pre-snap reads when attacking defenses. Excels at throwing in rhythm and with timing off three- and five-step drops. Throws to where his receivers can make the catch and immediately get upfield. Has outstanding pocket awareness and instincts when creating throwing lanes inside pocket. Can slide and buy time when reading through his progressions. Has the quick, smooth delivery to consistently beat the pass rush with his arm. Gets rid of the ball quickly and can change ball speeds with touch, zip and RPMs. Shows very good accuracy on short and intermediate throws. Has the arm strength to attack vertically, with good downfield accuracy. Needs to add significant bulk and strength to his frame. Lacks ideal mobility, but throws on the move effectively from the outside edges of the pocket. With a big senior year, Nunes--who is similar to Mike Glennon (class of 2007) in his methods--could be the surprise quarterback of this class. He's an excellent prospect whose name should get around quickly.

Nunes' class of 2009 peers:
Matt Barkley, Aaron Murray, Tajh Boyd, Bryn Renner, AJ McCarron, Jordan Wynn, Brock Osweiler (but of course your usual assortment of gah QBs, e.g. Garrett Gilbert).

Nottingham's class of 2010 peers: Tyler Bray, Sean Mannion, Bryan Bennett, Tanner Price, Connor Halliday.

Safe to say Nunes' peer group looks a lot better, though I don't think that's a terribly strong predictor. Nevertheless if Nunes looked like a good prospect relative to some players who turned out to be pretty good players, it's a positive sign, I think.

[dabigv13]

It's clear the most important factor in this decision can be described simply as good decision making. And it's hard to argue about that, and if Nunes has it more than Nottingham, then this isn't simply a defensible choice, it's the only choice.

The thing that sticks in my craw however is the way it seems to have been quantified in the competition; it's not about making a good decision that gets into a play that can break a defense open, instead it's about avoiding a bad playcall that would result in a loss or sack. Clearly that's an important ability as well, but it sounds a lot like playing not to lose. It sounds like the end of the Fiesta Bowl.

That's my narrative and I hope to abandon it very soon. But I am concerned.

[dabigv13]

It's clear the most important factor in this decision can be described simply as good decision making. And it's hard to argue about that, and if Nunes has it more than Nottingham, then this isn't simply a defensible choice, it's the only choice.

The thing that sticks in my craw however is the way it seems to have been quantified in the competition; it's not about making a good decision that gets into a play that can break a defense open, instead it's about avoiding a bad playcall that would result in a loss or sack. Clearly that's an important ability as well, but it sounds a lot like playing not to lose. It sounds like the end of the Fiesta Bowl.

That's my narrative and I hope to abandon it very soon. But I am concerned.

[fullmetal]

I feel like those are two sides of the same coin.  If you're good enough to recognize how to break a defense, you'll be good enough to recognize imminent threats.  It's that kind of decision-making that will probably win the locker room as well (cf DeCastro chastising Luck: "Get us into a good play!"). 

[fullmetal]

I feel like those are two sides of the same coin.  If you're good enough to recognize how to break a defense, you'll be good enough to recognize imminent threats.  It's that kind of decision-making that will probably win the locker room as well (cf DeCastro chastising Luck: "Get us into a good play!"). 

[akCard]

what's Shaw's coaching style??

Leaving aside the end of the Fiesta Bowl (I was lucky that my plasma didn't break when I threw the remote at it), 13 games is hardly enough of a CV from which to draw a conclusion. Shaw may end up being a conservative playcaller of the highest order but my guess is that he's still searching for his coaching identity. Let's give the man a chance to figure it out before we, the fans, tell him what it is.

The selection of Nunes doesn't bother me so much as the possible fallout suggested by this story on Yahoo (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/josh-nunes-...isgQHs1LYF): 1) Nottingham wasn't made available for comment after the starter announcement was made; 2) calls made to his parents house in Danville were not returned; 3) Nottingham is also not automatically the backup to Nunes. None of those points fill me with warm fuzzies but hopefully Brett is able to swallow great disappointment (he's got two years left, right??) and looks at this as a learning experience, albeit a very painful one.

[akCard]

what's Shaw's coaching style??

Leaving aside the end of the Fiesta Bowl (I was lucky that my plasma didn't break when I threw the remote at it), 13 games is hardly enough of a CV from which to draw a conclusion. Shaw may end up being a conservative playcaller of the highest order but my guess is that he's still searching for his coaching identity. Let's give the man a chance to figure it out before we, the fans, tell him what it is.

The selection of Nunes doesn't bother me so much as the possible fallout suggested by this story on Yahoo (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/josh-nunes-...isgQHs1LYF): 1) Nottingham wasn't made available for comment after the starter announcement was made; 2) calls made to his parents house in Danville were not returned; 3) Nottingham is also not automatically the backup to Nunes. None of those points fill me with warm fuzzies but hopefully Brett is able to swallow great disappointment (he's got two years left, right??) and looks at this as a learning experience, albeit a very painful one.

[stan01]

My reaction:

Stanford showed class by not making Nottingham available for comment.  He had found out only two hours prior and had to go through the team announcement immediately before the press conference.  What did the reporter hope that Nottingham would say?  Shaw briefly mentioned that  "Josh did not get too high and Brett did not get too low."  That was enough for me.  Calling Brett's parents for comment just seemed out of line and overzealous. 

Back to football, the decision not to name an official backup is indeed surprising.  Do they expect Kevin Hogan to catch up? 

[stan01]

My reaction:

Stanford showed class by not making Nottingham available for comment.  He had found out only two hours prior and had to go through the team announcement immediately before the press conference.  What did the reporter hope that Nottingham would say?  Shaw briefly mentioned that  "Josh did not get too high and Brett did not get too low."  That was enough for me.  Calling Brett's parents for comment just seemed out of line and overzealous. 

Back to football, the decision not to name an official backup is indeed surprising.  Do they expect Kevin Hogan to catch up? 

[stan01]

The most interesting tweet of the day comes from Sam Fisher, KZSU Stanford football broadcaster:

"Sam Fisher ‏@samfisher908
I heard from players, Nottingham was better in practice. Nunes could have trouble leading guys upset over decision. Time to take charge."

[stan01]

The most interesting tweet of the day comes from Sam Fisher, KZSU Stanford football broadcaster:

"Sam Fisher ‏@samfisher908
I heard from players, Nottingham was better in practice. Nunes could have trouble leading guys upset over decision. Time to take charge."

[FarmBoy]

I wonder what kind of risk there is that BN would leave the program after this decision. It's got to be hard for a player to realize that a decision was made that created a high probability that he will need to wait another two years for a shot to start (barring significant injuries to the starter). That would be 4 years removed from playing high school ball. And even then, there are younger players you'll need to re-compete with.

Before yesterday, BN probably thought he had a better than 50/50 shot to be the starter for the team for the next 2-3 years. Sure, JN could get injured or play poorly. But now that this decision has been made, JN will get the majority of snaps with the first team, get a lot of in game experience, develop rapport and timing with the offense, and generally get on an accelerated learning curve. I'm sure he'll be able to continue to "compete", but if he didn't convince the coaches with his performance yet, can he realistically expect to do so with less opportunity to develop? So the chances he'll take over the starter position before spring of 2014 are probably low. His best "hope" (and I'm sure he doesn't hope this), is that JN goes down with a bad injury or the team plays poorly and needs a change.

Of course, there's not guarantee that if he did transfer he would win the starting job at a different school after sitting out a year, so that may hang over him.

[FarmBoy]

I wonder what kind of risk there is that BN would leave the program after this decision. It's got to be hard for a player to realize that a decision was made that created a high probability that he will need to wait another two years for a shot to start (barring significant injuries to the starter). That would be 4 years removed from playing high school ball. And even then, there are younger players you'll need to re-compete with.

Before yesterday, BN probably thought he had a better than 50/50 shot to be the starter for the team for the next 2-3 years. Sure, JN could get injured or play poorly. But now that this decision has been made, JN will get the majority of snaps with the first team, get a lot of in game experience, develop rapport and timing with the offense, and generally get on an accelerated learning curve. I'm sure he'll be able to continue to "compete", but if he didn't convince the coaches with his performance yet, can he realistically expect to do so with less opportunity to develop? So the chances he'll take over the starter position before spring of 2014 are probably low. His best "hope" (and I'm sure he doesn't hope this), is that JN goes down with a bad injury or the team plays poorly and needs a change.

Of course, there's not guarantee that if he did transfer he would win the starting job at a different school after sitting out a year, so that may hang over him.

[washingtonismoney]

The most interesting tweet of the day comes from Sam Fisher, KZSU Stanford football broadcaster:

"Sam Fisher ‏@samfisher908
I heard from players, Nottingham was better in practice. Nunes could have trouble leading guys upset over decision. Time to take charge."

I'd be surprised if there weren't plays who thought Nottingham was better. But then I'd also guess there are some Nunes and even Hogan partisans in the locker room too. The question is whether the leadership of the team--that is, not just Nunes but Shaw and Hamilton and Chase Thomas and so on--is firm enough to keep the ship pointed in the right direction.

[washingtonismoney]

The most interesting tweet of the day comes from Sam Fisher, KZSU Stanford football broadcaster:

"Sam Fisher ‏@samfisher908
I heard from players, Nottingham was better in practice. Nunes could have trouble leading guys upset over decision. Time to take charge."

I'd be surprised if there weren't plays who thought Nottingham was better. But then I'd also guess there are some Nunes and even Hogan partisans in the locker room too. The question is whether the leadership of the team--that is, not just Nunes but Shaw and Hamilton and Chase Thomas and so on--is firm enough to keep the ship pointed in the right direction.

[OutsiderFan]

It is curious why Nottingham wasn't allowed to talk to the media, if that was indeed the case.  However, Shaw's MO could be that he wants all focus to be on his starting QB, and to provide every opportunity for Nunes to be that guy.  This includes putting him in front of the cameras and microphones and having Nottingham in the background.

It's cold turkey.  One day you were fighting for the #1 job, the next you are the backup QB nobody cares about.  Shaw knows the team better than anyone.  He may have sensed a division about who the QB should be, and he wants everything that happens in his program (that he can control), to be all about reinforcing Nunes as the guy.  He's got to make Nunes the leader of his team ASAP, and he's got barely a week to do it.

[OutsiderFan]

It is curious why Nottingham wasn't allowed to talk to the media, if that was indeed the case.  However, Shaw's MO could be that he wants all focus to be on his starting QB, and to provide every opportunity for Nunes to be that guy.  This includes putting him in front of the cameras and microphones and having Nottingham in the background.

It's cold turkey.  One day you were fighting for the #1 job, the next you are the backup QB nobody cares about.  Shaw knows the team better than anyone.  He may have sensed a division about who the QB should be, and he wants everything that happens in his program (that he can control), to be all about reinforcing Nunes as the guy.  He's got to make Nunes the leader of his team ASAP, and he's got barely a week to do it.

[Ratmandoo]

Isn't Shaw's decision to name Nunes the starter over Nottingham very similar to Harbaugh's decision to start Stepfan Taylor over Anthony Wilkerson? I think that decision turned out okay. Taylor does everything "right" - pass protection, receiving, hitting the right holes - while most people on this board thought that Wilkerson was the more gifted runner. At the end of this year, Taylor is going to be in the top three in most of the Stanford running back records. Or what about Harbaugh sticking with Tavita Prichard over Jason Forcier and Alex Loukas in 2007? Forcier and Loukas both had more physical talent than Tavita but he knew the playbook better.

Right now, I trust Shaw made the right decision until I see otherwise. And unlike Harbaugh's decision to go with Tavita in 2007, Nunes has a lot of physical abilities based on his 4-star ranking and all the other scouting reports that have been linked above.

[Ratmandoo]

Isn't Shaw's decision to name Nunes the starter over Nottingham very similar to Harbaugh's decision to start Stepfan Taylor over Anthony Wilkerson? I think that decision turned out okay. Taylor does everything "right" - pass protection, receiving, hitting the right holes - while most people on this board thought that Wilkerson was the more gifted runner. At the end of this year, Taylor is going to be in the top three in most of the Stanford running back records. Or what about Harbaugh sticking with Tavita Prichard over Jason Forcier and Alex Loukas in 2007? Forcier and Loukas both had more physical talent than Tavita but he knew the playbook better.

Right now, I trust Shaw made the right decision until I see otherwise. And unlike Harbaugh's decision to go with Tavita in 2007, Nunes has a lot of physical abilities based on his 4-star ranking and all the other scouting reports that have been linked above.