[OutsiderFan]

I'm sure I'm not the only one here who saw Ted Miller's blog post of the Pro Football Weekly All-American team.  For those who didn't, the PFW AA Team is actually developed from the opinions of NFL scouts.  It doesn't necessarily consider who the best players were in college, but rather who is better from an NFL prospect POV.

Given most of these position awards are underwritten by former HOF NFL players, it stands to reason that their selection committees are biased by NFL perspectives.  Last year I thought Fleener should have won the Mackey award and he wasn't even a finalist.  Though he was drafted before Dwayne Allen (on the same team, probably as much to give Luck his favorite target than anything else), Allen won the Mackey in 2011, and he has been the more productive TE for the Colts this year.

So even though Ertz had more production than Eifert in college, Eifert won the Mackey and was on the TE on the PFW AA Team.  Ertz was honorable mention (there is no second team with PFW) because the NFL Scouts see Eifert as slightly better physically.  But honestly, it's splitting hairs.  All these guys (Fleener, Allen, Ertz, and Eifert) are all very good players and all will play in the NFL for several years.  It will be fun to see how they do as pros as their careers develop.

[OutsiderFan]

I'm sure I'm not the only one here who saw Ted Miller's blog post of the Pro Football Weekly All-American team.  For those who didn't, the PFW AA Team is actually developed from the opinions of NFL scouts.  It doesn't necessarily consider who the best players were in college, but rather who is better from an NFL prospect POV.

Given most of these position awards are underwritten by former HOF NFL players, it stands to reason that their selection committees are biased by NFL perspectives.  Last year I thought Fleener should have won the Mackey award and he wasn't even a finalist.  Though he was drafted before Dwayne Allen (on the same team, probably as much to give Luck his favorite target than anything else), Allen won the Mackey in 2011, and he has been the more productive TE for the Colts this year.

So even though Ertz had more production than Eifert in college, Eifert won the Mackey and was on the TE on the PFW AA Team.  Ertz was honorable mention (there is no second team with PFW) because the NFL Scouts see Eifert as slightly better physically.  But honestly, it's splitting hairs.  All these guys (Fleener, Allen, Ertz, and Eifert) are all very good players and all will play in the NFL for several years.  It will be fun to see how they do as pros as their careers develop.

[yvonne]

So, why do you believe that Pro Football Weekly's All-American team is more reliable than the other All American selections?

Oh, by the way, PFW's AA team's tight end selection last year was Coby Fleener. http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/12...erica-team

[yvonne]

So, why do you believe that Pro Football Weekly's All-American team is more reliable than the other All American selections?

Oh, by the way, PFW's AA team's tight end selection last year was Coby Fleener. http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/12...erica-team

[OutsiderFan]

So, why do you believe that Pro Football Weekly's All-American team is more reliable than the other All American selections?

I never said it was more reliable.  My point was that the PFW AA Team considers perceived NFL draft value (at this stage of the evaluation process) over pure college production, and that kind of thinking might explain why Fleener and Ertz didn't win the Mackey award, despite being the two most productive TEs in college football the last two seasons.  There very well could be Mackey voters being swayed by NFL scout opinions.

The topic seemed relevant because people reading this board, self included, have felt the Mackey has slighted Fleener and Ertz, and I thought this PFW AA Team might shed some light into why.

[OutsiderFan]

So, why do you believe that Pro Football Weekly's All-American team is more reliable than the other All American selections?

I never said it was more reliable.  My point was that the PFW AA Team considers perceived NFL draft value (at this stage of the evaluation process) over pure college production, and that kind of thinking might explain why Fleener and Ertz didn't win the Mackey award, despite being the two most productive TEs in college football the last two seasons.  There very well could be Mackey voters being swayed by NFL scout opinions.

The topic seemed relevant because people reading this board, self included, have felt the Mackey has slighted Fleener and Ertz, and I thought this PFW AA Team might shed some light into why.

[PrinceLightfoot]

Allen won the Mackey in 2011, and he has been the more productive TE for the Colts this year.

Not a fair comparison given Fleener was injured for a portion of the season - only played in 9 games vs 13 for Allen. The balance on who is better a TE in the NFL will span for several years to come before that weighing can be measured.

[PrinceLightfoot]

Allen won the Mackey in 2011, and he has been the more productive TE for the Colts this year.

Not a fair comparison given Fleener was injured for a portion of the season - only played in 9 games vs 13 for Allen. The balance on who is better a TE in the NFL will span for several years to come before that weighing can be measured.

[OutsiderFan]

So, why do you believe that Pro Football Weekly's All-American team is more reliable than the other All American selections?

Oh, by the way, PFW's AA team's tight end selection last year was Coby Fleener. http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/12...erica-team

OK then, I guess the Mackey voters just hate Stanford?  There can be no other explanation!

Voldemort voters (Luck, Gerhart), Mackey voters (Ertz, Fleener), Outland Trophy voters (DeCastro), all have it in for Stanford.  The Walter Camp guys are the only smart ones!  Luck won that award in 2011.

[OutsiderFan]

So, why do you believe that Pro Football Weekly's All-American team is more reliable than the other All American selections?

Oh, by the way, PFW's AA team's tight end selection last year was Coby Fleener. http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/12...erica-team

OK then, I guess the Mackey voters just hate Stanford?  There can be no other explanation!

Voldemort voters (Luck, Gerhart), Mackey voters (Ertz, Fleener), Outland Trophy voters (DeCastro), all have it in for Stanford.  The Walter Camp guys are the only smart ones!  Luck won that award in 2011.

[washingtonismoney]

Paul Hornung Award voters, however, are on the side of sweetness and light. (Marecic). Doak Walker Award voters are also relatively reasonable (Gerhart).

[washingtonismoney]

Paul Hornung Award voters, however, are on the side of sweetness and light. (Marecic). Doak Walker Award voters are also relatively reasonable (Gerhart).

[OutsiderFan]

While on the topic,  How about a poll on what was the biggest post-season award slight for Stanford in the last four years?

Gerhart - Voldemort
Luck - Voldemort
Luck Voldemort
Fleener - Mackey
Ertz - Mackey

My money is on Gerhart.  His numbers were better than Ingram's, he meant more to his team than Ingram, and Gerhart was carrying like 18 units while playing football, in a tough major - the consummate representation of a true student athlete.

Luck was obviously great, but Newton and Griffin were amazing talents.  Luck would have won over Manziel for sure, in either year.  Ertz and Eifert are so close, and on such good teams, I just can't quibble too much.

[OutsiderFan]

While on the topic,  How about a poll on what was the biggest post-season award slight for Stanford in the last four years?

Gerhart - Voldemort
Luck - Voldemort
Luck Voldemort
Fleener - Mackey
Ertz - Mackey

My money is on Gerhart.  His numbers were better than Ingram's, he meant more to his team than Ingram, and Gerhart was carrying like 18 units while playing football, in a tough major - the consummate representation of a true student athlete.

Luck was obviously great, but Newton and Griffin were amazing talents.  Luck would have won over Manziel for sure, in either year.  Ertz and Eifert are so close, and on such good teams, I just can't quibble too much.

[washingtonismoney]

Fleener's snub was the worst because he wasn't even a finalist. That was incredible. Had he been a finalist, I'd go with Gerhart instead. (Also, one big snub you didn't have was Barrett Jones over David DeCastro for the Outland. Thought that was pretty bad. I'd put that right behind Gerhart.)

[washingtonismoney]

Fleener's snub was the worst because he wasn't even a finalist. That was incredible. Had he been a finalist, I'd go with Gerhart instead. (Also, one big snub you didn't have was Barrett Jones over David DeCastro for the Outland. Thought that was pretty bad. I'd put that right behind Gerhart.)

[jayasena]

While on the topic,  How about a poll on what was the biggest post-season award slight for Stanford in the last four years?

Gerhart - Voldemort
Luck - Voldemort
Luck Voldemort
Fleener - Mackey
Ertz - Mackey

My money is on Gerhart.  His numbers were better than Ingram's, he meant more to his team than Ingram, and Gerhart was carrying like 18 units while playing football, in a tough major - the consummate representation of a true student athlete.

Luck was obviously great, but Newton and Griffin were amazing talents.  Luck would have won over Manziel for sure, in either year.  Ertz and Eifert are so close, and on such good teams, I just can't quibble too much.

I agree with WIM on Fleener, with Luck 2011 a close second.

I consider Gerhart a lesson in logistics (do I get some brownie points -- no pun intended -- from UPS?). There was no campaign for him aside from the grassroots efforts organized by GG(?) et.al. and he still came remarkably close. IMO if Gerhart had been promoted better by Stanford or we had won another game or two, I think he wins it. So I don't consider that too much of  a slight.

[jayasena]

While on the topic,  How about a poll on what was the biggest post-season award slight for Stanford in the last four years?

Gerhart - Voldemort
Luck - Voldemort
Luck Voldemort
Fleener - Mackey
Ertz - Mackey

My money is on Gerhart.  His numbers were better than Ingram's, he meant more to his team than Ingram, and Gerhart was carrying like 18 units while playing football, in a tough major - the consummate representation of a true student athlete.

Luck was obviously great, but Newton and Griffin were amazing talents.  Luck would have won over Manziel for sure, in either year.  Ertz and Eifert are so close, and on such good teams, I just can't quibble too much.

I agree with WIM on Fleener, with Luck 2011 a close second.

I consider Gerhart a lesson in logistics (do I get some brownie points -- no pun intended -- from UPS?). There was no campaign for him aside from the grassroots efforts organized by GG(?) et.al. and he still came remarkably close. IMO if Gerhart had been promoted better by Stanford or we had won another game or two, I think he wins it. So I don't consider that too much of  a slight.

[teejers1]

The bogus hankie thrown by the official on Toby's late, long run at Wake Forest cost more than just the game for Stanford.  I'm pretty darn sure that it also cost Toby the Voldemort Trophy.  And remember, this was an early-season game, before people realized that Stanford was good, that Wake wasn't, and that Toby was GREAT.  In other words, the ref maybe thought the home team "should" win that game, making him trigger happy. 

I know the zebra has never given it second thought, but my futile hope is that the guy has lost some sleep over that brutally bad call.

[teejers1]

The bogus hankie thrown by the official on Toby's late, long run at Wake Forest cost more than just the game for Stanford.  I'm pretty darn sure that it also cost Toby the Voldemort Trophy.  And remember, this was an early-season game, before people realized that Stanford was good, that Wake wasn't, and that Toby was GREAT.  In other words, the ref maybe thought the home team "should" win that game, making him trigger happy. 

I know the zebra has never given it second thought, but my futile hope is that the guy has lost some sleep over that brutally bad call.

[terry]

The criteria for the Mackey Award do not say anything about NFL draft potential. It's supposed to be awarded to "the most outstanding tight end in FBS college football." I don't see anything that indicating that NFL draft potential is a consideration.

[terry]

The criteria for the Mackey Award do not say anything about NFL draft potential. It's supposed to be awarded to "the most outstanding tight end in FBS college football." I don't see anything that indicating that NFL draft potential is a consideration.