[yvonne]

Stanford All-Americans' faces around the concourse.

[yvonne]

Stanford All-Americans' faces around the concourse.

[Spiny_Norman]

There is not much publicly available video of John Elway at Stanford (except for the 1982 Big Game which I have seen many many times).

But I did find the following.

1979 Stanford vs. ASU - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaRHow5PUIw 
Elway makes an appearance holding for PATs and stepping for a series to relieve an ill Turk Schonert.  Elway scrambles right then left before throwing a long bullet downfield across his body which is picked off.  Lots of familiar names in this video that I had not heard in quite a while, including my friend and classmate Kevin MacMillan who tragically died in a car accident junior year.  Stick around for the scuffle at the end between an ASU WR and Rodney Gilmore.

1982 Stanford vs. Washington - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e56jPompuU
Only one real Elway highlight in this video, a TD pass to Emile Harry.  But this game does have an historic footnote.  It was the final Stanford win for John Elway.  Stanford would give up 4th quarter leads vs. Arizona and UCLA in the following 2 weeks before Big Game.

[Spiny_Norman]

There is not much publicly available video of John Elway at Stanford (except for the 1982 Big Game which I have seen many many times).

But I did find the following.

1979 Stanford vs. ASU - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaRHow5PUIw 
Elway makes an appearance holding for PATs and stepping for a series to relieve an ill Turk Schonert.  Elway scrambles right then left before throwing a long bullet downfield across his body which is picked off.  Lots of familiar names in this video that I had not heard in quite a while, including my friend and classmate Kevin MacMillan who tragically died in a car accident junior year.  Stick around for the scuffle at the end between an ASU WR and Rodney Gilmore.

1982 Stanford vs. Washington - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e56jPompuU
Only one real Elway highlight in this video, a TD pass to Emile Harry.  But this game does have an historic footnote.  It was the final Stanford win for John Elway.  Stanford would give up 4th quarter leads vs. Arizona and UCLA in the following 2 weeks before Big Game.

[FarmBoy]

Actually, when college basketball players are honored at their final home games -- which happens in dozens of gyms around the country every season -- they're rarely having their jersey numbers retired. Most often they're just receiving a frame with a jersey in it. It's a nice gift, but definitely not the same as having the number retired.

Hank, I'm not referring to the annual celebration of seniors, which is done for both basketball and football players at most schools. I'm referring to a jersey retirement like is done in Duke and UNC basketball is once every few years for a truly exceptional senior such as Bobby Hurley, Grant Hill, or Tyler Hansbrough. They've done enough in their time on campus to have earned that recognition on their last home game while still students.

[FarmBoy]

Actually, when college basketball players are honored at their final home games -- which happens in dozens of gyms around the country every season -- they're rarely having their jersey numbers retired. Most often they're just receiving a frame with a jersey in it. It's a nice gift, but definitely not the same as having the number retired.

Hank, I'm not referring to the annual celebration of seniors, which is done for both basketball and football players at most schools. I'm referring to a jersey retirement like is done in Duke and UNC basketball is once every few years for a truly exceptional senior such as Bobby Hurley, Grant Hill, or Tyler Hansbrough. They've done enough in their time on campus to have earned that recognition on their last home game while still students.

[washingtonismoney]

Here's a fun ESPN segment on Elway: http://www.blinkx.com/watch-video/elway-...z8w4srqyGw

[washingtonismoney]

Here's a fun ESPN segment on Elway: http://www.blinkx.com/watch-video/elway-...z8w4srqyGw

[oman]

I get that one can make a strong argument for the importance of Toby G. to Stanford football.  I get that we are often biased towards the music and sports and styles that we experienced when we were young. 

TG is representative of a certain kind of hard nosed, hard working player who is a great reflection of the recent good form we have been in.

But when Elway was playing for Stanford it was kind of a transcendent experience.  You knew it was going to be thrilling and it was just a question of how many points our defense was going to give up. 

I don't even see the two in the same neighborhood, even if you throw out their pro careers.  I mean, they are both in incredible neighborhoods, but still.

Elway = Dylan

TG = Roy Orbison

[oman]

I get that one can make a strong argument for the importance of Toby G. to Stanford football.  I get that we are often biased towards the music and sports and styles that we experienced when we were young. 

TG is representative of a certain kind of hard nosed, hard working player who is a great reflection of the recent good form we have been in.

But when Elway was playing for Stanford it was kind of a transcendent experience.  You knew it was going to be thrilling and it was just a question of how many points our defense was going to give up. 

I don't even see the two in the same neighborhood, even if you throw out their pro careers.  I mean, they are both in incredible neighborhoods, but still.

Elway = Dylan

TG = Roy Orbison

[yvonne]

You're right. Gerhart never said he should have played at San Jose State.

Elway's the guy with the glitz from being the NFL name. Toby was amazing, carrying blockers with him, even throwing for a TD -- that's right Toby has a higher QB rating than Elway  ;) -- but he's getting shut out of the honors because he's backing up Adrian Peterson, not because his college career was deficient.

[yvonne]

You're right. Gerhart never said he should have played at San Jose State.

Elway's the guy with the glitz from being the NFL name. Toby was amazing, carrying blockers with him, even throwing for a TD -- that's right Toby has a higher QB rating than Elway  ;) -- but he's getting shut out of the honors because he's backing up Adrian Peterson, not because his college career was deficient.

[82lsju]

Standing ovation from me for this honor for John Elway which is richly deserved.  As a member of his class, I got to see him play in person a bunch of times including an epic upset vs. #3 Oklahoma and an even more stunning defeat of #1 Washington.  He was the most exciting player I have seen in a Stanford uniform (only slightly ahead of his teammate Darrin Nelson).  I don't think any other Stanford player in the last 30+ years has created as much excitement and buzz on a college field as John Elway.

I hope that the AD takes the next step and decides to commemorate the retired numbers in a prominent place in the stadium.  My suggestion - on the arches behind the northern end of the stadium.

Toby Gerhart was also one of the all-time Stanford greats.  He deserves his own jersey retirement ceremony.  It should happen after his NFL career is complete when he can attend in person to soak up the warmth and the memories alongside his teammates, family and other people who are important to him.

what he said.  I was in the class ahead of Elway and saw many of his games.  He was the most exciting player I've seen at Stanford.  Yes, the team wasn't all that great, but he sure was.

[82lsju]

Standing ovation from me for this honor for John Elway which is richly deserved.  As a member of his class, I got to see him play in person a bunch of times including an epic upset vs. #3 Oklahoma and an even more stunning defeat of #1 Washington.  He was the most exciting player I have seen in a Stanford uniform (only slightly ahead of his teammate Darrin Nelson).  I don't think any other Stanford player in the last 30+ years has created as much excitement and buzz on a college field as John Elway.

I hope that the AD takes the next step and decides to commemorate the retired numbers in a prominent place in the stadium.  My suggestion - on the arches behind the northern end of the stadium.

Toby Gerhart was also one of the all-time Stanford greats.  He deserves his own jersey retirement ceremony.  It should happen after his NFL career is complete when he can attend in person to soak up the warmth and the memories alongside his teammates, family and other people who are important to him.

what he said.  I was in the class ahead of Elway and saw many of his games.  He was the most exciting player I've seen at Stanford.  Yes, the team wasn't all that great, but he sure was.

[TRD]

There is not much publicly available video of John Elway at Stanford (except for the 1982 Big Game which I have seen many many times).

But I did find the following.

Does anyone have a link to a video clip of Elway hitting Emile Harry in the corner of the end zone on the opposite side of the field at Ohio state? It is one of the most memorable college football plays ever for me. That play was better than the Flutie vs. the U TD, IMHO.

I can't find it anywhere.

[TRD]

There is not much publicly available video of John Elway at Stanford (except for the 1982 Big Game which I have seen many many times).

But I did find the following.

Does anyone have a link to a video clip of Elway hitting Emile Harry in the corner of the end zone on the opposite side of the field at Ohio state? It is one of the most memorable college football plays ever for me. That play was better than the Flutie vs. the U TD, IMHO.

I can't find it anywhere.

[Hank 91]

Yes, it will be a very meaningful ceremony for Toby. "We're retiring this jersey, which we already retired 15 years ago, in somebody else's name...."

Garvin -- so imagine that fifteen years from now the AD reaches out to Toby and says, "Hey, we think you're one of the greatest players to ever strap on a Stanford helmet, and we'd like to honor you with a ceremony at halftime of our biggest game this season. (And as you know, we've only done this for three other players in Stanford history.) Obviously, we retired John Elway's #7 fifteen years ago, and I'm sure you were happy to see that since you actually chose to wear #7 to honor him, but this night will be about you. Gerhart 7 will now hang along side Nevers 1, Plunkett 16, and Elway 7, never to be worn again."

Do you really believe that that wouldn't be meaningful?

[Hank 91]

Yes, it will be a very meaningful ceremony for Toby. "We're retiring this jersey, which we already retired 15 years ago, in somebody else's name...."

Garvin -- so imagine that fifteen years from now the AD reaches out to Toby and says, "Hey, we think you're one of the greatest players to ever strap on a Stanford helmet, and we'd like to honor you with a ceremony at halftime of our biggest game this season. (And as you know, we've only done this for three other players in Stanford history.) Obviously, we retired John Elway's #7 fifteen years ago, and I'm sure you were happy to see that since you actually chose to wear #7 to honor him, but this night will be about you. Gerhart 7 will now hang along side Nevers 1, Plunkett 16, and Elway 7, never to be worn again."

Do you really believe that that wouldn't be meaningful?

[yvonne]

[quote author=garvin link=topic=8194.msg65324#msg65324 date=1375832334]
Yes, it will be a very meaningful ceremony for Toby. "We're retiring this jersey, which we already retired 15 years ago, in somebody else's name...."

Gerhart 7 will now hang along side Nevers 1, Plunkett 16, and Elway 7, never to be worn again."

Do you really believe that that wouldn't be meaningful?
[/quote]

First, it's not a given that Toby decided to wear 7 because of Elway. He's a running back, not a quarterback. Second, the ceremony won't be meaningful because the number wasn't going to be worn again anyhow. Furthermore, there's no guarantee -- in fact, it's much less likely now -- that a future AD would decide to honor Toby.

How about this, why don't we retire John Brodie's number?

[yvonne]

[quote author=garvin link=topic=8194.msg65324#msg65324 date=1375832334]
Yes, it will be a very meaningful ceremony for Toby. "We're retiring this jersey, which we already retired 15 years ago, in somebody else's name...."

Gerhart 7 will now hang along side Nevers 1, Plunkett 16, and Elway 7, never to be worn again."

Do you really believe that that wouldn't be meaningful?
[/quote]

First, it's not a given that Toby decided to wear 7 because of Elway. He's a running back, not a quarterback. Second, the ceremony won't be meaningful because the number wasn't going to be worn again anyhow. Furthermore, there's no guarantee -- in fact, it's much less likely now -- that a future AD would decide to honor Toby.

How about this, why don't we retire John Brodie's number?

[Bruce Wang]

First, it's not a given that Toby decided to wear 7 because of Elway.

Yes!  At long last, my opportunity to outshine our uber-knowledgeable webmistress in Stanford sports trivia has come.  Gerhart wore the same number (24) as Elway did for baseball.  I doubt that's a coincidence.

[Bruce Wang]

First, it's not a given that Toby decided to wear 7 because of Elway.

Yes!  At long last, my opportunity to outshine our uber-knowledgeable webmistress in Stanford sports trivia has come.  Gerhart wore the same number (24) as Elway did for baseball.  I doubt that's a coincidence.

[oman]

I am trying to figure out how I got -2 on my Dylan/Orbison post.

What do you people have against Dylan?

[oman]

I am trying to figure out how I got -2 on my Dylan/Orbison post.

What do you people have against Dylan?

[washingtonismoney]

What do you people have against Dylan?

Probably people who tried to figure out Self Portrait.

BREAKING, people: early-to-mid Dylan, like early-to-mid Woody Allen, is best.

[washingtonismoney]

What do you people have against Dylan?

Probably people who tried to figure out Self Portrait.

BREAKING, people: early-to-mid Dylan, like early-to-mid Woody Allen, is best.

[Hank 91]

[quote author=Yvonne link=topic=8194.msg65345#msg65345 date=1375897961]
First, it's not a given that Toby decided to wear 7 because of Elway.

Yes!  At long last, my opportunity to outshine our uber-knowledgeable webmistress in Stanford sports trivia has come.  Gerhart wore the same number (24) as Elway did for baseball.  I doubt that's a coincidence.

[/quote]

That's how I remember it also. He looked up to Elway because he was a two-sport athlete as well.

[Hank 91]

[quote author=Yvonne link=topic=8194.msg65345#msg65345 date=1375897961]
First, it's not a given that Toby decided to wear 7 because of Elway.

Yes!  At long last, my opportunity to outshine our uber-knowledgeable webmistress in Stanford sports trivia has come.  Gerhart wore the same number (24) as Elway did for baseball.  I doubt that's a coincidence.

[/quote]

That's how I remember it also. He looked up to Elway because he was a two-sport athlete as well.

[Bruce Wang]

What do you people have against Dylan?

Here's my Stanford Bob Dylan story.  We're at the Tower Records in Mountainview.  One of my drawmates (who had professional concert pianist talent but terrible popular music knowledge) comes up to me and asks me who sings "Blowin' in the Wind".  I told him Bob Dylan so he buys a greatest hits CD.  Later that night, he knocks on my door laughing. "Who the hell is this Bob Dylan?  He has a TERRIBLE voice.  Is this a prank?  Seriously, who is the original singer?"

[Bruce Wang]

What do you people have against Dylan?

Here's my Stanford Bob Dylan story.  We're at the Tower Records in Mountainview.  One of my drawmates (who had professional concert pianist talent but terrible popular music knowledge) comes up to me and asks me who sings "Blowin' in the Wind".  I told him Bob Dylan so he buys a greatest hits CD.  Later that night, he knocks on my door laughing. "Who the hell is this Bob Dylan?  He has a TERRIBLE voice.  Is this a prank?  Seriously, who is the original singer?"

[oman]

That's correct, Hank. I think it will feel like sloppy seconds. And I think Toby Gerhart had a far greater impact on Stanford football than John Elway did. Gerhart joined the team at its lowest point in living memory and was the major on-the-field factor in lifting it from 1-10 to a bowl game. Elway's teams barely rose to the level of mediocrity. Stanford owes Gerhart a much, much greater thank-you than it does Elway, and retiring Gerhart's number in somebody else's name is not the way to do it.

So we punish Elway for the mediocrity but we discuss Gerhart helping to turn the program around without mentioning Luck?

Sure Elway had Nelson, but Gerhart had some help, especially during his Voldemort run. 

I have no problem with your "greater impact on Stanford football" argument -- that is a decent debate.  But the statement that Stanford owes Gerhart a much greater thank you than it does Elway seems much less defensible.  In terms of TGs teams, my thank yous would probably go to Harbaugh and Luck and DeCastro, Martin, Beeler, and Marecic and there wouldn't necessarily be an order other than Harbaugh coming first. 

Elway was pretty instrumental in keeping Stanford's legacy as a Quarterback U strong. 

You are picking a dream Stanford team and when it is your turn to pick all of the great ones are gone except for Elway and TG.  You don't have running back or quarterback picked yet. 

You are going to pick TG?

[oman]

That's correct, Hank. I think it will feel like sloppy seconds. And I think Toby Gerhart had a far greater impact on Stanford football than John Elway did. Gerhart joined the team at its lowest point in living memory and was the major on-the-field factor in lifting it from 1-10 to a bowl game. Elway's teams barely rose to the level of mediocrity. Stanford owes Gerhart a much, much greater thank-you than it does Elway, and retiring Gerhart's number in somebody else's name is not the way to do it.

So we punish Elway for the mediocrity but we discuss Gerhart helping to turn the program around without mentioning Luck?

Sure Elway had Nelson, but Gerhart had some help, especially during his Voldemort run. 

I have no problem with your "greater impact on Stanford football" argument -- that is a decent debate.  But the statement that Stanford owes Gerhart a much greater thank you than it does Elway seems much less defensible.  In terms of TGs teams, my thank yous would probably go to Harbaugh and Luck and DeCastro, Martin, Beeler, and Marecic and there wouldn't necessarily be an order other than Harbaugh coming first. 

Elway was pretty instrumental in keeping Stanford's legacy as a Quarterback U strong. 

You are picking a dream Stanford team and when it is your turn to pick all of the great ones are gone except for Elway and TG.  You don't have running back or quarterback picked yet. 

You are going to pick TG?

[washingtonismoney]

You are picking a dream Stanford team and when it is your turn to pick all of the great ones are gone except for Elway and TG.  You don't have running back or quarterback picked yet. 

You are going to pick TG?

Actually, I might! Not a diss on Elway or even one on his number-retirement credentials. But because of the depth at Stanford QB (depending, I suppose, on where you cut off "great one" QBs), I'd take the relatively rare quantity and content myself with Steve Stenstrom or Todd Husak or Don Bunce or something.

[washingtonismoney]

You are picking a dream Stanford team and when it is your turn to pick all of the great ones are gone except for Elway and TG.  You don't have running back or quarterback picked yet. 

You are going to pick TG?

Actually, I might! Not a diss on Elway or even one on his number-retirement credentials. But because of the depth at Stanford QB (depending, I suppose, on where you cut off "great one" QBs), I'd take the relatively rare quantity and content myself with Steve Stenstrom or Todd Husak or Don Bunce or something.

[needle]

If Toby selected his Stanford numbers b/c he wanted to wear Elway's numbers, I'm guessing he's totally cool with this honor for one of his athletic role models.

I hope that the university had the good sense to give him a heads up about this, but I really think it's overblown that this is somehow disrespectful to Toby.

[needle]

If Toby selected his Stanford numbers b/c he wanted to wear Elway's numbers, I'm guessing he's totally cool with this honor for one of his athletic role models.

I hope that the university had the good sense to give him a heads up about this, but I really think it's overblown that this is somehow disrespectful to Toby.

[TreeWeird]

A generous amount of time should pass after graduation before retiring a number.  Time lends perspective.  Also, although I agree a player's NFL career should be irrelevant, it should matter how individual represents the university as an alumnus.  What if Elway were OJ?

[TreeWeird]

A generous amount of time should pass after graduation before retiring a number.  Time lends perspective.  Also, although I agree a player's NFL career should be irrelevant, it should matter how individual represents the university as an alumnus.  What if Elway were OJ?

[oman]

Actually, I might! Not a diss on Elway or even one on his number-retirement credentials. But because of the depth at Stanford QB (depending, I suppose, on where you cut off "great one" QBs), I'd take the relatively rare quantity and content myself with Steve Stenstrom or Todd Husak or Don Bunce or something.

Okay, Vardell and S. Taylor are available as well.....

Let's make it easy.  Elway and TG were not going to participate in the draft, but they show up at the last second.  They are the only two players available, and you have forgotten who you already have drafted.  You have one pick.

(This scenario is not going to get any less stupid, I can tell.....)

[oman]

Actually, I might! Not a diss on Elway or even one on his number-retirement credentials. But because of the depth at Stanford QB (depending, I suppose, on where you cut off "great one" QBs), I'd take the relatively rare quantity and content myself with Steve Stenstrom or Todd Husak or Don Bunce or something.

Okay, Vardell and S. Taylor are available as well.....

Let's make it easy.  Elway and TG were not going to participate in the draft, but they show up at the last second.  They are the only two players available, and you have forgotten who you already have drafted.  You have one pick.

(This scenario is not going to get any less stupid, I can tell.....)