[Hank 91]

I'm not complaining, just looking for opinions. I watched the game on my computer with a Slingbox connection, so I can't go back and watch the DVR'd game, and I missed almost the entire second quarter while driving my daughter to a slumber party. The Slingbox feed was somehow devoid of audio, so I was listening to the KZSU audio. Anyway, here's the question.

How did you feel about the officiating? The KZSU announcers were adamant that offensive pass interference should've been called as Devon Carrington was pushed on that 50-yard touchdown play early, they just about lost their minds when Ben Gardner was called for the late hit on 3rd and 8, and they basically said that the Utes -- offensive linemen and wide receivers -- were holding on every running play.

I like listening to KZSU from time to time because it's kind of like sitting in the Stanford student section again, but I'm wondering if anyone here can confirm this. I'm not completely sold on that Carrington play, and the Gardner play happened while I was driving.

Any thoughts?

[Hank 91]

I'm not complaining, just looking for opinions. I watched the game on my computer with a Slingbox connection, so I can't go back and watch the DVR'd game, and I missed almost the entire second quarter while driving my daughter to a slumber party. The Slingbox feed was somehow devoid of audio, so I was listening to the KZSU audio. Anyway, here's the question.

How did you feel about the officiating? The KZSU announcers were adamant that offensive pass interference should've been called as Devon Carrington was pushed on that 50-yard touchdown play early, they just about lost their minds when Ben Gardner was called for the late hit on 3rd and 8, and they basically said that the Utes -- offensive linemen and wide receivers -- were holding on every running play.

I like listening to KZSU from time to time because it's kind of like sitting in the Stanford student section again, but I'm wondering if anyone here can confirm this. I'm not completely sold on that Carrington play, and the Gardner play happened while I was driving.

Any thoughts?

[81alum]

This is what I said yesterday:

In addition to everything else that has been said, I do think the poor officiating hurt us badly in this game.  Ideally we would have played well enough to win in spite of it, but it was a lot to overcome.

1. On the pass to Dres Anderson for the 51 yard TD, Anderson simply shoved our defender out of the way, in obvious sight of the official, who did not call offensive pass interference.  That was a 7 point non-call.

2. The reason the bubble screens were so effective was that Utah was holding on virtually all of them, many of them blatant.

3. The roughing the passer call on Ben Gardner was at least a 4 point penalty.

4. The non-whistle on forward progress that cost us a fumble.

Were there calls or non calls that favored Stanford?  Perhaps, but these were very significant penalties that really changed the character of the game.

They will start replaying the game on Pac12 before long and then I will watch it a couple more times.  But my impression of the holding going on the bubble screens was that it was egregious.  You could see hunks of jersey in their blocking WR hands as our guys tried to escape to make a tackle.  The bubble screen seems to be built on the premise that refs don't call holds on WRs, only on linemen.

The Ben Gardner play was not quite as clear as some have made it out.  It was a bad call, not an egregious call.  He may have taken a full step after the QB released the ball, and perhaps he could have pulled up a bit more than he did.  But it was not like he took two steps, or targeted.

I think the worst call of the day, though, was allowing Dres Anderson to push his defender away so he could haul in the 51 yard TD.  The KZSU announcers had that one right.  Wait until you see it on replay.

[81alum]

This is what I said yesterday:

In addition to everything else that has been said, I do think the poor officiating hurt us badly in this game.  Ideally we would have played well enough to win in spite of it, but it was a lot to overcome.

1. On the pass to Dres Anderson for the 51 yard TD, Anderson simply shoved our defender out of the way, in obvious sight of the official, who did not call offensive pass interference.  That was a 7 point non-call.

2. The reason the bubble screens were so effective was that Utah was holding on virtually all of them, many of them blatant.

3. The roughing the passer call on Ben Gardner was at least a 4 point penalty.

4. The non-whistle on forward progress that cost us a fumble.

Were there calls or non calls that favored Stanford?  Perhaps, but these were very significant penalties that really changed the character of the game.

They will start replaying the game on Pac12 before long and then I will watch it a couple more times.  But my impression of the holding going on the bubble screens was that it was egregious.  You could see hunks of jersey in their blocking WR hands as our guys tried to escape to make a tackle.  The bubble screen seems to be built on the premise that refs don't call holds on WRs, only on linemen.

The Ben Gardner play was not quite as clear as some have made it out.  It was a bad call, not an egregious call.  He may have taken a full step after the QB released the ball, and perhaps he could have pulled up a bit more than he did.  But it was not like he took two steps, or targeted.

I think the worst call of the day, though, was allowing Dres Anderson to push his defender away so he could haul in the 51 yard TD.  The KZSU announcers had that one right.  Wait until you see it on replay.

[fullmetal]

It only takes a small bit of holding to let speedy guys like Anderson and Poole break free.

[fullmetal]

It only takes a small bit of holding to let speedy guys like Anderson and Poole break free.

[yvonne]

Quit whining. Nobody likes that kind of fan.

[yvonne]

Quit whining. Nobody likes that kind of fan.

[76lsjumb]

First a disclaimer:  I'm offering this as an observation, not an excuse, as I did not think we lost because of the officiating [although that call on Gardner...  ;) ]  In other words, I'm not going all Sark here.

That being said, and having watched most of the UofO/UofW game, if you thought the holding on the bubble screens in our game was bad, prepare for having your head explode in the UofO game.  The Ducks have [apparently] perfected the "legal" hold on that play, as frequently the DB would be INSIDE the blocker and, for some "unexplained" reason, be incapable of moving toward the receiver as the latter cut inside the block.  #7 [whose name I forget] is an expert in this technique.  It only takes a fraction of a second hold to make the play...and, boy, are the Ducks good at it.

[76lsjumb]

First a disclaimer:  I'm offering this as an observation, not an excuse, as I did not think we lost because of the officiating [although that call on Gardner...  ;) ]  In other words, I'm not going all Sark here.

That being said, and having watched most of the UofO/UofW game, if you thought the holding on the bubble screens in our game was bad, prepare for having your head explode in the UofO game.  The Ducks have [apparently] perfected the "legal" hold on that play, as frequently the DB would be INSIDE the blocker and, for some "unexplained" reason, be incapable of moving toward the receiver as the latter cut inside the block.  #7 [whose name I forget] is an expert in this technique.  It only takes a fraction of a second hold to make the play...and, boy, are the Ducks good at it.

[JohnR34231]

Does anyone else get a little tired about the inevitable complaining about the officiating by losing team fans in a close game?

I know I do.

[JohnR34231]

Does anyone else get a little tired about the inevitable complaining about the officiating by losing team fans in a close game?

I know I do.

[Leftcoast]

Yes, there are mutliple reasons we lost on Saturday without including the refs.

Having said that it is legitimate to wonder how Stanford's D will adjust to counter the holding/quasi-holding techniques used by spread teams.  After all it was the ability of our ends and safeties to quickly close on bubble screens, jet sweeps and the like AND tackle one-on-one that allowed us to beat Oregon last  year.

[Leftcoast]

Yes, there are mutliple reasons we lost on Saturday without including the refs.

Having said that it is legitimate to wonder how Stanford's D will adjust to counter the holding/quasi-holding techniques used by spread teams.  After all it was the ability of our ends and safeties to quickly close on bubble screens, jet sweeps and the like AND tackle one-on-one that allowed us to beat Oregon last  year.

[fullmetal]

Be glad no one here is calling for heads.  If it's part of the game, it gets examined by fans.  And refereeing was questionable at times.  But it alone wasn't sufficient to explain the loss, that's for darn sure.

[fullmetal]

Be glad no one here is calling for heads.  If it's part of the game, it gets examined by fans.  And refereeing was questionable at times.  But it alone wasn't sufficient to explain the loss, that's for darn sure.

[81alum]

Does anyone else get a little tired about the inevitable complaining about the officiating by losing team fans in a close game?

I know I do.

Apologies if I sounded like a whiner.

Given that referees are human, bad calls will be part of the game.  One hopes that our side wins by enough that a few bad calls won't matter--in that sense it is always in our power to neutralize the effects of bad refereeing.  And even in a close game we hope that the bad calls even out over both sides. 

But what happens when an entire strategy is  predicated on referees being unwilling to enforce certain rules?  It is, as one of you pointed out, like WBB when the refs decide to "let both sides by physical" and this seeming equality works in a lopsided way for one side and against the other. 

[81alum]

Does anyone else get a little tired about the inevitable complaining about the officiating by losing team fans in a close game?

I know I do.

Apologies if I sounded like a whiner.

Given that referees are human, bad calls will be part of the game.  One hopes that our side wins by enough that a few bad calls won't matter--in that sense it is always in our power to neutralize the effects of bad refereeing.  And even in a close game we hope that the bad calls even out over both sides. 

But what happens when an entire strategy is  predicated on referees being unwilling to enforce certain rules?  It is, as one of you pointed out, like WBB when the refs decide to "let both sides by physical" and this seeming equality works in a lopsided way for one side and against the other. 

[Utahute72]

I can't speak to the holding, but I had a really good look at the long reception.  It was really good tight coverage by the DB and there was a lot of back an forth.  When the ball was in the air I thought Dres had no chance to make the play, but he displayed amazing body control and actually caught the thing.  I didn't see a noticeable push by him to free himself, it just seemed he stopped and twisted, while the DBs momentum carried him further downfield.  Regardless it was an amazing catch and run (or fall) into the endzone.  By in large I was very impressed with Stanford and I'm still somewhat in shock we actually pulled that off.  It may have been a little hangover from that Washington game.  Anyway wish you guys luck the rest of the way.

[Utahute72]

I can't speak to the holding, but I had a really good look at the long reception.  It was really good tight coverage by the DB and there was a lot of back an forth.  When the ball was in the air I thought Dres had no chance to make the play, but he displayed amazing body control and actually caught the thing.  I didn't see a noticeable push by him to free himself, it just seemed he stopped and twisted, while the DBs momentum carried him further downfield.  Regardless it was an amazing catch and run (or fall) into the endzone.  By in large I was very impressed with Stanford and I'm still somewhat in shock we actually pulled that off.  It may have been a little hangover from that Washington game.  Anyway wish you guys luck the rest of the way.