[71Bear]

Just curious how LSJU fans feel...

Put aside for a moment the relative performance of the UC and Stanford teams. 

Quite a few UC fans believe that the new TV contracts are ruining P12 football because of the number of late night games (7:30/8:00 start time).  Many have indicated they will not renew their season tix unless there is a cap on the number of late night games that each team must play. 

Given that you guys have played several late games this year, I would be curious to see how you feel.  Do you think there should be a limit on late games each year? 

Quite frankly, I don't believe the quality of play enters into this discussion.  I think other issues are bigger factors for schools like UC and LSJU (given the overall mediocre records posted by the two schools more often than not over the last 50 years).  For example, tailgating, renewing friendships, etc. etc. trump winning when it comes to deciding whether or not to attend.  If TV forces the issue, it could impact attendance at schools like UC and LSJU.

Your thoughts?

[71Bear]

Just curious how LSJU fans feel...

Put aside for a moment the relative performance of the UC and Stanford teams. 

Quite a few UC fans believe that the new TV contracts are ruining P12 football because of the number of late night games (7:30/8:00 start time).  Many have indicated they will not renew their season tix unless there is a cap on the number of late night games that each team must play. 

Given that you guys have played several late games this year, I would be curious to see how you feel.  Do you think there should be a limit on late games each year? 

Quite frankly, I don't believe the quality of play enters into this discussion.  I think other issues are bigger factors for schools like UC and LSJU (given the overall mediocre records posted by the two schools more often than not over the last 50 years).  For example, tailgating, renewing friendships, etc. etc. trump winning when it comes to deciding whether or not to attend.  If TV forces the issue, it could impact attendance at schools like UC and LSJU.

Your thoughts?

[stupac2]

I like late games just fine. The stadium is cooler, and traffic was brutal out of the stadium yesterday. Seriously, I have never waited that long to get to 101. It was horrendous. I think night games mitigate that somewhat, as a lot of it was mall traffic.

I don't think it makes a big difference for polls or any of that stuff, and I don't care too much about connecting with people before/after the game. Late games give me time to do other things, while day games take up basically the whole day; late games are easier to get to and get home from; and late games are better experiences at the game. I don't really see the downside.

I also really don't get the complaint, you're not going to renew your tickets because the games take up your Saturday night? Uh, okay, I think people are just using that as an excuse to say that they're not real fans and have given up on the team.

[stupac2]

I like late games just fine. The stadium is cooler, and traffic was brutal out of the stadium yesterday. Seriously, I have never waited that long to get to 101. It was horrendous. I think night games mitigate that somewhat, as a lot of it was mall traffic.

I don't think it makes a big difference for polls or any of that stuff, and I don't care too much about connecting with people before/after the game. Late games give me time to do other things, while day games take up basically the whole day; late games are easier to get to and get home from; and late games are better experiences at the game. I don't really see the downside.

I also really don't get the complaint, you're not going to renew your tickets because the games take up your Saturday night? Uh, okay, I think people are just using that as an excuse to say that they're not real fans and have given up on the team.

[FarmBoy]

The Pac12 is damned if it does, damned if it doesn't on this topic. Half the games start after 10EST so that they won't be going up against any SEC or B1G games, but that just means that no one i actually awake on the east coast to watch the games. I have a hard time believing we increase our viewership with this strategy. But ESPN and Fox have no incentive to show our games earlier in the day in place of those SEC/B1G games that East and Midwest fans want to see. The Pac12 has basically admitted it's a second class citizen in the modern football landscape. It has conceded prime time to the boys out east.

With that being said, I agree it's hurting the fan experience to have so many late games. Having moved back east, I'm not longer a season ticket holder, but if I were, I would not be able to bring my sons to these games, and father-son time was a big component of buying season tix. I would rather less TV exposure and better start times for the fans at the games and those on the east coast.

[FarmBoy]

The Pac12 is damned if it does, damned if it doesn't on this topic. Half the games start after 10EST so that they won't be going up against any SEC or B1G games, but that just means that no one i actually awake on the east coast to watch the games. I have a hard time believing we increase our viewership with this strategy. But ESPN and Fox have no incentive to show our games earlier in the day in place of those SEC/B1G games that East and Midwest fans want to see. The Pac12 has basically admitted it's a second class citizen in the modern football landscape. It has conceded prime time to the boys out east.

With that being said, I agree it's hurting the fan experience to have so many late games. Having moved back east, I'm not longer a season ticket holder, but if I were, I would not be able to bring my sons to these games, and father-son time was a big component of buying season tix. I would rather less TV exposure and better start times for the fans at the games and those on the east coast.

[tfeldstein]

I like the night games but 8 is too late.  I think it's too late; the Presidents sold their soul for the new TV contract. I love Stanford Stadium at night with the new eyebrow signage.

[tfeldstein]

I like the night games but 8 is too late.  I think it's too late; the Presidents sold their soul for the new TV contract. I love Stanford Stadium at night with the new eyebrow signage.

[washingtonismoney]

For east coasters, games at 10/10:30 are terrrrrible. There's the quality of life issue -- i.e. no sleep. But, additionally, the late night games seem to get the JV announcing teams. The difference between Matt Millen and Chris Spielman is like the difference between a coloring book and Jennifer Egan.

[washingtonismoney]

For east coasters, games at 10/10:30 are terrrrrible. There's the quality of life issue -- i.e. no sleep. But, additionally, the late night games seem to get the JV announcing teams. The difference between Matt Millen and Chris Spielman is like the difference between a coloring book and Jennifer Egan.

[pincemob]

Here is how I'd analyze the game times:

12:30.  Great for young families, fans who have to drive more than an hour to the game, and people with Saturday evening social commitments.  Bad for families with older kids in activities (e.g. youth sports), and people who need hours of tailgating before the game.

5:00.  Reasonable for young families and fans driving in from afar, though many still have to leave early.  Wipes out Saturday evening plans and still interferes with kids' activities.  Good for people who like a couple hours solid of tailgating. 

7:00.  Forget young families unless they are ultra-die hards.  People driving from afar are also getting home at 1 a.m. which is pretty brutal (not to mention dodging drunk drivers, as I did after the Washington game when a guy jumped a curb on El Camino).  Good for some folks with a lot of mid-day older kids' activities. 

Forgetting my personal bias, I think Stanford is far better off with 12:30 than 7:00 pm games.  We have a lot of fans who don't live all that close to the stadium, and relatively few of the hard-core types who like the 5 hours of drinking before the game.  We also have an aging fan base which isn't too hip on super late games.  But I'd be fine with variety.  Ideal would probably be 3-4 games at 12:30 (or 2:00 which is basically the same), 1-2 at 5:00, and 1 late-night special (early September game when it is 90 degrees preferably). 

[pincemob]

Here is how I'd analyze the game times:

12:30.  Great for young families, fans who have to drive more than an hour to the game, and people with Saturday evening social commitments.  Bad for families with older kids in activities (e.g. youth sports), and people who need hours of tailgating before the game.

5:00.  Reasonable for young families and fans driving in from afar, though many still have to leave early.  Wipes out Saturday evening plans and still interferes with kids' activities.  Good for people who like a couple hours solid of tailgating. 

7:00.  Forget young families unless they are ultra-die hards.  People driving from afar are also getting home at 1 a.m. which is pretty brutal (not to mention dodging drunk drivers, as I did after the Washington game when a guy jumped a curb on El Camino).  Good for some folks with a lot of mid-day older kids' activities. 

Forgetting my personal bias, I think Stanford is far better off with 12:30 than 7:00 pm games.  We have a lot of fans who don't live all that close to the stadium, and relatively few of the hard-core types who like the 5 hours of drinking before the game.  We also have an aging fan base which isn't too hip on super late games.  But I'd be fine with variety.  Ideal would probably be 3-4 games at 12:30 (or 2:00 which is basically the same), 1-2 at 5:00, and 1 late-night special (early September game when it is 90 degrees preferably). 

[82lsju]

in our group which includes

- empty nesters
- people with kids under 10
- people who live <10 miles from campus
- people who live 20 miles+ from campus

the real impact of the late games is people leave early, sometimes before halftime for the latest starts (those with kids <10 and living 20+ miles away).  Even those with no kids and who live relatively close by leave early if the outcome of the game appears to be not in doubt.

The Thursday night 6pm kick-off is a real pain, given Bay Area traffic I'm expecting a lot of empty seats at kick-off.

Of course none of what fans in the stadium think matters as the real money is TV.  I sometimes cynically think that in 10-15 years there will be virtual fans at the games as everyone watches remotely.....

[82lsju]

in our group which includes

- empty nesters
- people with kids under 10
- people who live <10 miles from campus
- people who live 20 miles+ from campus

the real impact of the late games is people leave early, sometimes before halftime for the latest starts (those with kids <10 and living 20+ miles away).  Even those with no kids and who live relatively close by leave early if the outcome of the game appears to be not in doubt.

The Thursday night 6pm kick-off is a real pain, given Bay Area traffic I'm expecting a lot of empty seats at kick-off.

Of course none of what fans in the stadium think matters as the real money is TV.  I sometimes cynically think that in 10-15 years there will be virtual fans at the games as everyone watches remotely.....

[twgin]

From my personal viewpoint, I live a couple of hours away, late games make for a very long day.  I think the athletic department long ago decided that the live gate, in this TV era, is just a cash cow to be beaten as hard as possible without actually killing it.  I say this having held both football and men's basketball season tickets for many years.  This year the parking pass, which has always been part of the season ticket package, costs additional money beyond the tickets.  I go because my family goes and the tailgating is a blast.  Now that the stadium is actually getting filled, it's a pretty exciting place during the games, so that's fun also.  The inside the stadium marketing is heavily aimed at the tweet crowd, a younger demographic than I, and maybe this will work in the affluent Bay Area.

I also cannot understand, if we are trying to build a national brand, how the late games will help.  Maybe we are trying to duplicate the success of midnight basketball...

[twgin]

From my personal viewpoint, I live a couple of hours away, late games make for a very long day.  I think the athletic department long ago decided that the live gate, in this TV era, is just a cash cow to be beaten as hard as possible without actually killing it.  I say this having held both football and men's basketball season tickets for many years.  This year the parking pass, which has always been part of the season ticket package, costs additional money beyond the tickets.  I go because my family goes and the tailgating is a blast.  Now that the stadium is actually getting filled, it's a pretty exciting place during the games, so that's fun also.  The inside the stadium marketing is heavily aimed at the tweet crowd, a younger demographic than I, and maybe this will work in the affluent Bay Area.

I also cannot understand, if we are trying to build a national brand, how the late games will help.  Maybe we are trying to duplicate the success of midnight basketball...

[CowboyIndian]

I hate the late games. Saturday's 12:30 game is ideal in my opinion because you can do some tailgating before and then some after the game....while it's still light!

And, speaking of selling out the folks in the stands for TV, those television commercial timeouts are an abomination and nothing but frustrating. They leave a game with absolutely no rhythm. Every change of possession...or injury...or score....you've got both teams standing around out there for a couple of minutes just waiting to start playing again. I HATE that guy in the vest...and I know he's just the messenger.

[CowboyIndian]

I hate the late games. Saturday's 12:30 game is ideal in my opinion because you can do some tailgating before and then some after the game....while it's still light!

And, speaking of selling out the folks in the stands for TV, those television commercial timeouts are an abomination and nothing but frustrating. They leave a game with absolutely no rhythm. Every change of possession...or injury...or score....you've got both teams standing around out there for a couple of minutes just waiting to start playing again. I HATE that guy in the vest...and I know he's just the messenger.

[yvonne]

I had forgotten what a day game was like. When I left the stadium, I ended up by gate 1, and noticed that I was near where the players come out. I hadn't hung out there in years. Day games are unquestionably the best. A woman who sits near me drives from Fresno. She has to leave night games early, like after the half. Another benefit of day games is that since everyone isn't in a hurry to leave at the same time, the traffic isn't as clogged after the game.

[yvonne]

I had forgotten what a day game was like. When I left the stadium, I ended up by gate 1, and noticed that I was near where the players come out. I hadn't hung out there in years. Day games are unquestionably the best. A woman who sits near me drives from Fresno. She has to leave night games early, like after the half. Another benefit of day games is that since everyone isn't in a hurry to leave at the same time, the traffic isn't as clogged after the game.

[stupac2]

the traffic isn't as clogged after the game.

???????? This is emphatically not true, for me at least. That game was the worst traffic I have ever experienced at Stanford, game day or no. It took me half an hour to get to El Camino when it normally takes a couple minutes. I don't know what was going on, but it was unbelievably bad.

[stupac2]

the traffic isn't as clogged after the game.

???????? This is emphatically not true, for me at least. That game was the worst traffic I have ever experienced at Stanford, game day or no. It took me half an hour to get to El Camino when it normally takes a couple minutes. I don't know what was going on, but it was unbelievably bad.

[g1313]

[quote author=Yvonne link=topic=8651.msg71928#msg71928 date=1382329874]the traffic isn't as clogged after the game.

???????? This is emphatically not true, for me at least. That game was the worst traffic I have ever experienced at Stanford, game day or no. It took me half an hour to get to El Camino when it normally takes a couple minutes. I don't know what was going on, but it was unbelievably bad.
[/quote]

It was reunion weekend, so I imagine there were significantly more people/cars on campus than usual, I'm not sure what it would be like on a normal weekend. I will however note that most night games it takes us about 20 minutes to get from the GSB parking lot to El Camino.

As a relatively younger fan without kids who lives close by, my personal preference is for the later 5 or 7 pm games, but I'm going to come regardless so it doesn't matter much to me, and any time that can get more Stanford fans in the seats and making noise is a time I would support. I'm not sure what time that would be - late games people seem to leave early because it is getting late, but yesterday I noticed some people leaving because of the heat. Our section (235) also seemed to have more empty seats than usual, which is bizarre considering the ranked opponent and it being reunion weekend.

[g1313]

[quote author=Yvonne link=topic=8651.msg71928#msg71928 date=1382329874]the traffic isn't as clogged after the game.

???????? This is emphatically not true, for me at least. That game was the worst traffic I have ever experienced at Stanford, game day or no. It took me half an hour to get to El Camino when it normally takes a couple minutes. I don't know what was going on, but it was unbelievably bad.
[/quote]

It was reunion weekend, so I imagine there were significantly more people/cars on campus than usual, I'm not sure what it would be like on a normal weekend. I will however note that most night games it takes us about 20 minutes to get from the GSB parking lot to El Camino.

As a relatively younger fan without kids who lives close by, my personal preference is for the later 5 or 7 pm games, but I'm going to come regardless so it doesn't matter much to me, and any time that can get more Stanford fans in the seats and making noise is a time I would support. I'm not sure what time that would be - late games people seem to leave early because it is getting late, but yesterday I noticed some people leaving because of the heat. Our section (235) also seemed to have more empty seats than usual, which is bizarre considering the ranked opponent and it being reunion weekend.

[Leftcoast]

I may be in the minority but I LIKE the evening and late afternoon starts, particularly for early season games.  There's something about the new stadium geometry on a warm summer afternoon that makes me feel like an uncooked wonton thrown into a hot, oiled wok.  I'm not alone, the mid-day heat sends throngs of sunny side ticket holders to the relative coolness of the concourse.  It's a bit better on the shady side but still plenty hot on sunny days.

Relegate 12:30 kick-offs to a late season change of pace start time and I'll not complain a bit.

[Leftcoast]

I may be in the minority but I LIKE the evening and late afternoon starts, particularly for early season games.  There's something about the new stadium geometry on a warm summer afternoon that makes me feel like an uncooked wonton thrown into a hot, oiled wok.  I'm not alone, the mid-day heat sends throngs of sunny side ticket holders to the relative coolness of the concourse.  It's a bit better on the shady side but still plenty hot on sunny days.

Relegate 12:30 kick-offs to a late season change of pace start time and I'll not complain a bit.

[Renaissance Man]

There are advantages and disadvantages with all of the start times.  I only have strong feelings about two things--Late starts are great early in the year, the new stadium on a hot day is unbearable (Saturday was nice, but five degrees warmer at kickoff and the concourse would have been packed, and the stadium would have looked empty), and I absolutely hate everything about weekday night games, I am likely looking at missing two days of work for the Oregon game, fighting traffic, pulling kids out of school, etc. Let the small conferences have the Thursday night exposure.

[Renaissance Man]

There are advantages and disadvantages with all of the start times.  I only have strong feelings about two things--Late starts are great early in the year, the new stadium on a hot day is unbearable (Saturday was nice, but five degrees warmer at kickoff and the concourse would have been packed, and the stadium would have looked empty), and I absolutely hate everything about weekday night games, I am likely looking at missing two days of work for the Oregon game, fighting traffic, pulling kids out of school, etc. Let the small conferences have the Thursday night exposure.

[stupac2]

It was reunion weekend, so I imagine there were significantly more people/cars on campus than usual, I'm not sure what it would be like on a normal weekend. I will however note that most night games it takes us about 20 minutes to get from the GSB parking lot to El Camino.

It might have been that, but I don't think so. I think it was actually mall traffic, since I go out Quarry to El Camino and it boarders the mall. The lights there are extraordinarily poorly timed and it caused this brobdingnagian backup such that even the tiny number of people coming down Quarry from the game were taking forever to get out because it was only letting people from the mall exit. I could fix that by going around to Sand Hill or some other voodoo, but then traffic on El Camino to 101 is just going to be way, way worse at 4:30 than it is at 11:00, just because far more people are going to be out at that time. Not to mention it severely constrains my routes back to Oakland, because traffic over the Bay Bridge and through the city is going to be tons worse during the afternoon.

[stupac2]

It was reunion weekend, so I imagine there were significantly more people/cars on campus than usual, I'm not sure what it would be like on a normal weekend. I will however note that most night games it takes us about 20 minutes to get from the GSB parking lot to El Camino.

It might have been that, but I don't think so. I think it was actually mall traffic, since I go out Quarry to El Camino and it boarders the mall. The lights there are extraordinarily poorly timed and it caused this brobdingnagian backup such that even the tiny number of people coming down Quarry from the game were taking forever to get out because it was only letting people from the mall exit. I could fix that by going around to Sand Hill or some other voodoo, but then traffic on El Camino to 101 is just going to be way, way worse at 4:30 than it is at 11:00, just because far more people are going to be out at that time. Not to mention it severely constrains my routes back to Oakland, because traffic over the Bay Bridge and through the city is going to be tons worse during the afternoon.

[Farm93]

The topic is so cute.

Clearly NOTHING is going to happen during the current contract.  Those networks bid with the belief that the time slots were up to them.  I think the Pac-12 fans thought it would be Fox at 1PM or ABC at 12:30, but in truth the networks saw an opportunity for later games to extend their football day.  I have no doubt that the late times is best for the networks.  For them to lose those slots would require a significant renegotiation of the contract.

4/5PM games would be great for most of our audiences.  Young kids can make it to 8PM (generally).  Grade school kids usually have morning or very early afternoon games, so no conflicts there.  It is also great for tailgates, cooling stadium temperatures, etc.

12:30/1 is a traditional time, but not one many teams will get now.

7/8PM is hard, but not impossible.  More importantly, it is our reality (at least for this contract).  It is likely our reality for future contracts too.

One final point...Stanford's Power game produces relatively quick games.  Most Stanford games take less than 3.25 hours even with commercial breaks.  UCB and WAZZUs ineffective spread games (lots of incomplete passes stopping the clock) produces much, much longer games.  So if UCBers really want to avoid late, late games they should fire their current coach and hire a Pep Hamilton type. 

[Farm93]

The topic is so cute.

Clearly NOTHING is going to happen during the current contract.  Those networks bid with the belief that the time slots were up to them.  I think the Pac-12 fans thought it would be Fox at 1PM or ABC at 12:30, but in truth the networks saw an opportunity for later games to extend their football day.  I have no doubt that the late times is best for the networks.  For them to lose those slots would require a significant renegotiation of the contract.

4/5PM games would be great for most of our audiences.  Young kids can make it to 8PM (generally).  Grade school kids usually have morning or very early afternoon games, so no conflicts there.  It is also great for tailgates, cooling stadium temperatures, etc.

12:30/1 is a traditional time, but not one many teams will get now.

7/8PM is hard, but not impossible.  More importantly, it is our reality (at least for this contract).  It is likely our reality for future contracts too.

One final point...Stanford's Power game produces relatively quick games.  Most Stanford games take less than 3.25 hours even with commercial breaks.  UCB and WAZZUs ineffective spread games (lots of incomplete passes stopping the clock) produces much, much longer games.  So if UCBers really want to avoid late, late games they should fire their current coach and hire a Pep Hamilton type. 

[Redrum]

Are ye FANS?  I see a 9:00/ 9:30 game start time here in the Central Time Zone and just man up!  You wanted a nationally competitive and recognized program...THIS is what success looks like.  I remember years when we were lucky to see Stanford on television one or two games/yr. , if AT ALL.  Not as many viewers staying up to see the games in the ETZ?  How about before, when there were NO games because Stanford was insignificant and the Pac-8/Pac-10 had no clout? WE didn't get "screwed", we got access to a national market.  You seem to be complaining that somehow our games are more important in SEC/ACC country than the teams that make up that league.  Why wouldn't Georgia fans gladly give up their prime time TV rights so that West Coast teams could have a cool tailgating and game experience?  I'm sorry that Californians get up later and stay up later than the rest of the country. I'm sorry most of America doesn't give a **** about Stanford and Pac-12 football... but that's what happens when the world is round and the country 4 time zones (actually 5) wide.

Harrrumph!!

P.S. consider, also, the benefits of hiding K.al football from the prying eyes of most of America.  Saturday night being the latest instance.  The whole conference benefitted from that.

[Redrum]

Are ye FANS?  I see a 9:00/ 9:30 game start time here in the Central Time Zone and just man up!  You wanted a nationally competitive and recognized program...THIS is what success looks like.  I remember years when we were lucky to see Stanford on television one or two games/yr. , if AT ALL.  Not as many viewers staying up to see the games in the ETZ?  How about before, when there were NO games because Stanford was insignificant and the Pac-8/Pac-10 had no clout? WE didn't get "screwed", we got access to a national market.  You seem to be complaining that somehow our games are more important in SEC/ACC country than the teams that make up that league.  Why wouldn't Georgia fans gladly give up their prime time TV rights so that West Coast teams could have a cool tailgating and game experience?  I'm sorry that Californians get up later and stay up later than the rest of the country. I'm sorry most of America doesn't give a **** about Stanford and Pac-12 football... but that's what happens when the world is round and the country 4 time zones (actually 5) wide.

Harrrumph!!

P.S. consider, also, the benefits of hiding K.al football from the prying eyes of most of America.  Saturday night being the latest instance.  The whole conference benefitted from that.

[yvonne]

I didn't interpret 71bear's post to ask whether we thought it was likely that the game times would revert to their old afternoon times. I interpreted "ruining P12 football" to ask whether they were no longer as fun as they used to be. Often, while the sun is still out, I reminisce about hanging out on the other side of the field in the old stadium, just enjoying a Saturday afternoon in the sun. It was a good time irrespective of the score. It was great when we knew in advance what time games were, and could plan accordingly. For example, my friends haven't had a Big Game party in years.

Nevertheless, I realize that we're unlikely to have many day games. As much as we'd like college football to be about having fun, it is mostly about the money. The players play for themselves and their teammates.

[yvonne]

I didn't interpret 71bear's post to ask whether we thought it was likely that the game times would revert to their old afternoon times. I interpreted "ruining P12 football" to ask whether they were no longer as fun as they used to be. Often, while the sun is still out, I reminisce about hanging out on the other side of the field in the old stadium, just enjoying a Saturday afternoon in the sun. It was a good time irrespective of the score. It was great when we knew in advance what time games were, and could plan accordingly. For example, my friends haven't had a Big Game party in years.

Nevertheless, I realize that we're unlikely to have many day games. As much as we'd like college football to be about having fun, it is mostly about the money. The players play for themselves and their teammates.

[71Bear]

Your interpretation is on the mark, Yvonne. 

By the way, I read that the P12 Presidents/Chancellors are very unhappy about the "12 day rule".  Hopefully, they will be able to strong arm the TV networks into permitting the conference to lock in a game times for more games well in advance of the game date than is currently allowed .  I don't hold out any hope for implementing a rule that governs the number of late night games that can be scheduled for each school.

[71Bear]

Your interpretation is on the mark, Yvonne. 

By the way, I read that the P12 Presidents/Chancellors are very unhappy about the "12 day rule".  Hopefully, they will be able to strong arm the TV networks into permitting the conference to lock in a game times for more games well in advance of the game date than is currently allowed .  I don't hold out any hope for implementing a rule that governs the number of late night games that can be scheduled for each school.

[Farm93]

Your interpretation is on the mark, Yvonne. 

By the way, I read that the P12 Presidents/Chancellors are very unhappy about the "12 day rule".  Hopefully, they will be able to strong arm the TV networks into permitting the conference to lock in a game times for more games well in advance of the game date than is currently allowed .  I don't hold out any hope for implementing a rule that governs the number of late night games that can be scheduled for each school.

I agree with both of you.  Afternoon games are lovely, predictable schedules were desirable.  And both things were better for fans in the stands.  Both were also better for attracting casual local fans that might someday become more loyal fans.  Chasing every last dollar is probably hurting the future of ticket sales.  (see NHL in the early 90s)

Of course, even SJSU does not get to play games in that old school way now, so no way it will happen in the Pac-12.

I think the conference could do a bit more to identify the evening games earlier though.  In our future the better teams will probably all be playing after 4PM, so it would be possible for the conference to identify the desirable 3 games for each Saturday maybe 21 days out.  (UCB at WSU for example, would not have been a desirable game that weekend.)  The desirable games would then get Fox/FS1 at 6/7PM, ABC/ESPN/ESPN2 at 7/7:30 and the Pac-12 Networks at 6/7PM with the final network shuffle maybe 12 days out.  The difference would be that those venues would know that 6/7/7:30 PM is going to happen and could schedule accordingly.  The undesirable game(s) would get thrown to Pac-12 networks in the daytime slots.

Not quite the solution you seek 71bear, but if schedule certainty is desirable by Pac-12 fans I think the conference will work towards leaving the afternoons completely since the networks probably could identify value in a pure Saturday night conference.

[Farm93]

Your interpretation is on the mark, Yvonne. 

By the way, I read that the P12 Presidents/Chancellors are very unhappy about the "12 day rule".  Hopefully, they will be able to strong arm the TV networks into permitting the conference to lock in a game times for more games well in advance of the game date than is currently allowed .  I don't hold out any hope for implementing a rule that governs the number of late night games that can be scheduled for each school.

I agree with both of you.  Afternoon games are lovely, predictable schedules were desirable.  And both things were better for fans in the stands.  Both were also better for attracting casual local fans that might someday become more loyal fans.  Chasing every last dollar is probably hurting the future of ticket sales.  (see NHL in the early 90s)

Of course, even SJSU does not get to play games in that old school way now, so no way it will happen in the Pac-12.

I think the conference could do a bit more to identify the evening games earlier though.  In our future the better teams will probably all be playing after 4PM, so it would be possible for the conference to identify the desirable 3 games for each Saturday maybe 21 days out.  (UCB at WSU for example, would not have been a desirable game that weekend.)  The desirable games would then get Fox/FS1 at 6/7PM, ABC/ESPN/ESPN2 at 7/7:30 and the Pac-12 Networks at 6/7PM with the final network shuffle maybe 12 days out.  The difference would be that those venues would know that 6/7/7:30 PM is going to happen and could schedule accordingly.  The undesirable game(s) would get thrown to Pac-12 networks in the daytime slots.

Not quite the solution you seek 71bear, but if schedule certainty is desirable by Pac-12 fans I think the conference will work towards leaving the afternoons completely since the networks probably could identify value in a pure Saturday night conference.