10-26-2013, 11:26 PM
He threw some really ugly balls tonight. Looked like he had grease on his hand when throwing, like the ball was slipping out when he threw it. Anyone know if or how he might be injured?
Is Hogan hurt?
He threw some really ugly balls tonight. Looked like he had grease on his hand when throwing, like the ball was slipping out when he threw it. Anyone know if or how he might be injured?
10-26-2013, 11:31 PM
To quote one of our football alum: "I'm a fan, but Kevin Hogan has an all-time grenade chucker throwing motion."
If I had a dollar every time I was distracted, I wish I had some ice cream.
To quote one of our football alum: "I'm a fan, but Kevin Hogan has an all-time grenade chucker throwing motion."
If I had a dollar every time I was distracted, I wish I had some ice cream.
10-26-2013, 11:35 PM
Yeah I'm not sure if you can say he was injured. He had some zip on some throws, I remember an overthrown ball to Montgomery over the middle in the 1st quarter in particular as thrown (too) hard.
We've seen him throw up those ducks down the right sideline from the pocket before tonight.
Simply put he is a more effective thrower on the run.
We've seen him throw up those ducks down the right sideline from the pocket before tonight.
Simply put he is a more effective thrower on the run.
Yeah I'm not sure if you can say he was injured. He had some zip on some throws, I remember an overthrown ball to Montgomery over the middle in the 1st quarter in particular as thrown (too) hard.
We've seen him throw up those ducks down the right sideline from the pocket before tonight.
Simply put he is a more effective thrower on the run.
We've seen him throw up those ducks down the right sideline from the pocket before tonight.
Simply put he is a more effective thrower on the run.
10-26-2013, 11:41 PM
(10-26-2013, 11:35 PM)dabigv link Wrote:Yeah I'm not sure if you can say he was injured. He had some zip on some throws, I remember an overthrown ball to Montgomery over the middle in the 1st quarter in particular as thrown (too) hard.
We've seen him throw up those ducks down the right sideline from the pocket before tonight.
Simply put he is a more effective thrower on the run.
There was a pass completed to Montgomery -- like a five yard completion -- that ended up getting waved off due to a penalty. The ball looked like it was being borne by four laboring messenger pigeons to its intended target. And that was only one. His zip was terrible today.
Hogan's specialty is the driven ball over the middle. Don't think we saw a single throw like that.
(10-26-2013, 11:35 PM)dabigv link Wrote:Yeah I'm not sure if you can say he was injured. He had some zip on some throws, I remember an overthrown ball to Montgomery over the middle in the 1st quarter in particular as thrown (too) hard.
We've seen him throw up those ducks down the right sideline from the pocket before tonight.
Simply put he is a more effective thrower on the run.
There was a pass completed to Montgomery -- like a five yard completion -- that ended up getting waved off due to a penalty. The ball looked like it was being borne by four laboring messenger pigeons to its intended target. And that was only one. His zip was terrible today.
Hogan's specialty is the driven ball over the middle. Don't think we saw a single throw like that.
10-26-2013, 11:44 PM
Maybe he just isn't too gifted a passer. We have seen inconsistency and some downright bad throws across multiple games - despite having good pass protection, a good running game, and an elite defense.Â
10-26-2013, 11:47 PM
(10-26-2013, 11:44 PM)DC link Wrote:Maybe he just isn't too gifted a passer. We have seen inconsistency and some downright bad throws across multiple games - despite having good pass protection, a good running game, and an elite defense.
That's possible, I suppose, but it's hard to have an 8+ YPA without at least some gifts. This was an uncharacteristically bad game with an uncharacteristic weakness -- a physical one. It would be one thing if Hogan were simply super inaccurate, or not going through his progressions well. These are weaknesses we've seen. This was a new, physical weakness and that leads to the natural question: well, were you hurt?
(10-26-2013, 11:44 PM)DC link Wrote:Maybe he just isn't too gifted a passer. We have seen inconsistency and some downright bad throws across multiple games - despite having good pass protection, a good running game, and an elite defense.
That's possible, I suppose, but it's hard to have an 8+ YPA without at least some gifts. This was an uncharacteristically bad game with an uncharacteristic weakness -- a physical one. It would be one thing if Hogan were simply super inaccurate, or not going through his progressions well. These are weaknesses we've seen. This was a new, physical weakness and that leads to the natural question: well, were you hurt?
10-27-2013, 12:59 AM
Hogan has terrible technique when throwing the ball in terms of his arm motion and how he cocks the ball back. Watch a video of him side by side with any good qb. Lack of solid technique produces inconsistent results. But I am also concerned about this not being able to read defenses. I am guessing that after ntonight his confidence is at an all time low. if he keeps playing this way there is no way he will be a four year starter.
this was the second time I was on the road listening to the road broadcasters and they have no love for Kevin Hogan. They describe him as a below-average PAC 12 quarterback every chance they get.
this was the second time I was on the road listening to the road broadcasters and they have no love for Kevin Hogan. They describe him as a below-average PAC 12 quarterback every chance they get.
Hogan has terrible technique when throwing the ball in terms of his arm motion and how he cocks the ball back. Watch a video of him side by side with any good qb. Lack of solid technique produces inconsistent results. But I am also concerned about this not being able to read defenses. I am guessing that after ntonight his confidence is at an all time low. if he keeps playing this way there is no way he will be a four year starter.
this was the second time I was on the road listening to the road broadcasters and they have no love for Kevin Hogan. They describe him as a below-average PAC 12 quarterback every chance they get.
this was the second time I was on the road listening to the road broadcasters and they have no love for Kevin Hogan. They describe him as a below-average PAC 12 quarterback every chance they get.
10-27-2013, 05:26 AM
(10-26-2013, 11:47 PM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:[quote author=DC link=topic=8685.msg72722#msg72722 date=1382856299]
Maybe he just isn't too gifted a passer. We have seen inconsistency and some downright bad throws across multiple games - despite having good pass protection, a good running game, and an elite defense.
That's possible, I suppose, but it's hard to have an 8+ YPA without at least some gifts. This was an uncharacteristically bad game with an uncharacteristic weakness -- a physical one. It would be one thing if Hogan were simply super inaccurate, or not going through his progressions well. These are weaknesses we've seen. This was a new, physical weakness and that leads to the natural question: well, were you hurt?
[/quote]
His biggest gift is the offensive line protection he gets.Â
(10-26-2013, 11:35 PM)dabigv link Wrote:Yeah I'm not sure if you can say he was injured. He had some zip on some throws, I remember an overthrown ball to Montgomery over the middle in the 1st quarter in particular as thrown (too) hard.
That overthrown ball was fine imho as Montgomery was tightly bracketed by a safety and cornerback...looked like Hogan was throwing it away to me. But Shaw yanked him after that play, and I think we saw a WildCard play, followed by a Dallas Lloyd fumble that Oregon State recovered.
(10-26-2013, 11:35 PM)dabigv link Wrote:Simply put he is a more effective thrower on the run.
Hogan didn't look like an effective thrower on the run this game. Rolling to his left, he couldn't find Ty Montgomery at the sidelines when Montgomery was open for a brief window.
(10-26-2013, 11:47 PM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:[quote author=DC link=topic=8685.msg72722#msg72722 date=1382856299]
Maybe he just isn't too gifted a passer. We have seen inconsistency and some downright bad throws across multiple games - despite having good pass protection, a good running game, and an elite defense.
That's possible, I suppose, but it's hard to have an 8+ YPA without at least some gifts. This was an uncharacteristically bad game with an uncharacteristic weakness -- a physical one. It would be one thing if Hogan were simply super inaccurate, or not going through his progressions well. These are weaknesses we've seen. This was a new, physical weakness and that leads to the natural question: well, were you hurt?
[/quote]
His biggest gift is the offensive line protection he gets.Â
(10-26-2013, 11:35 PM)dabigv link Wrote:Yeah I'm not sure if you can say he was injured. He had some zip on some throws, I remember an overthrown ball to Montgomery over the middle in the 1st quarter in particular as thrown (too) hard.
That overthrown ball was fine imho as Montgomery was tightly bracketed by a safety and cornerback...looked like Hogan was throwing it away to me. But Shaw yanked him after that play, and I think we saw a WildCard play, followed by a Dallas Lloyd fumble that Oregon State recovered.
(10-26-2013, 11:35 PM)dabigv link Wrote:Simply put he is a more effective thrower on the run.
Hogan didn't look like an effective thrower on the run this game. Rolling to his left, he couldn't find Ty Montgomery at the sidelines when Montgomery was open for a brief window.
10-27-2013, 05:38 AM
Oregon's defense will no doubt concentrate to stop Gaffney and the run and dare us to try to beat them with Hogan's arm. Hopefully, Kevin will have the game of his life.
Oregon's defense will no doubt concentrate to stop Gaffney and the run and dare us to try to beat them with Hogan's arm. Hopefully, Kevin will have the game of his life.
10-27-2013, 06:42 AM
I won't claim to know what Hogan's issues were today. And I certainly think he is playing his way into a quarterback competition in this Spring. But it also remember the early season when we were pretty impressed by his improved downfield throwing, and last season when he seemed to lead the offense efficiently with short and medium range passes.
Maybe his situation is similar to that of a pitcher in baseball, who can have a small flaw in his delivery that leads to poor results, like a loss of velocity or control. Or, it could be something physical he is hiding. Either way, he and the coaches need to figure this out.
Just last week people in the media were talking about his bounce back game, how he had learned from the last minutes of the Utah game, when he threw the ball with confidence. For now, I'm willing to say this was a poor game from a QB who is still learning the position at this level. Let's hope the coaches and Hogan can look at the film improve before the next, very big, game.
Maybe his situation is similar to that of a pitcher in baseball, who can have a small flaw in his delivery that leads to poor results, like a loss of velocity or control. Or, it could be something physical he is hiding. Either way, he and the coaches need to figure this out.
Just last week people in the media were talking about his bounce back game, how he had learned from the last minutes of the Utah game, when he threw the ball with confidence. For now, I'm willing to say this was a poor game from a QB who is still learning the position at this level. Let's hope the coaches and Hogan can look at the film improve before the next, very big, game.
I won't claim to know what Hogan's issues were today. And I certainly think he is playing his way into a quarterback competition in this Spring. But it also remember the early season when we were pretty impressed by his improved downfield throwing, and last season when he seemed to lead the offense efficiently with short and medium range passes.
Maybe his situation is similar to that of a pitcher in baseball, who can have a small flaw in his delivery that leads to poor results, like a loss of velocity or control. Or, it could be something physical he is hiding. Either way, he and the coaches need to figure this out.
Just last week people in the media were talking about his bounce back game, how he had learned from the last minutes of the Utah game, when he threw the ball with confidence. For now, I'm willing to say this was a poor game from a QB who is still learning the position at this level. Let's hope the coaches and Hogan can look at the film improve before the next, very big, game.
Maybe his situation is similar to that of a pitcher in baseball, who can have a small flaw in his delivery that leads to poor results, like a loss of velocity or control. Or, it could be something physical he is hiding. Either way, he and the coaches need to figure this out.
Just last week people in the media were talking about his bounce back game, how he had learned from the last minutes of the Utah game, when he threw the ball with confidence. For now, I'm willing to say this was a poor game from a QB who is still learning the position at this level. Let's hope the coaches and Hogan can look at the film improve before the next, very big, game.
10-27-2013, 08:49 AM
(10-27-2013, 12:59 AM)double e dub link Wrote:Hogan has terrible technique when throwing the ball in terms of his arm motion and how he cocks the ball back. Watch a video of him side by side with any good qb. Lack of solid technique produces inconsistent results. But I am also concerned about this not being able to read defenses. I am guessing that after ntonight his confidence is at an all time low. if he keeps playing this way there is no way he will be a four year starter.
this was the second time I was on the road listening to the road broadcasters and they have no love for Kevin Hogan. They describe him as a below-average PAC 12 quarterback every chance they get.
I agree. Keller Chryst can't arrive on campus soon enough. Now that we are finally getting some WR play, we need a QB who can take utilize their talents. The elite defense and good OL and running game have compensated for the relatively less good play at QB for this season and last.
Hopefully Kevin can improve, because for now I'm not sure we have anyone better. It is hard for the coaching staff to start over with Evan Crower while we are still winning most of our games. Brett Nottingham may have been better than Nunes or Hogan, but it is unclear if he ever got a fair chance. For now, Hogan is what we have, for better or worse.
(10-27-2013, 12:59 AM)double e dub link Wrote:Hogan has terrible technique when throwing the ball in terms of his arm motion and how he cocks the ball back. Watch a video of him side by side with any good qb. Lack of solid technique produces inconsistent results. But I am also concerned about this not being able to read defenses. I am guessing that after ntonight his confidence is at an all time low. if he keeps playing this way there is no way he will be a four year starter.
this was the second time I was on the road listening to the road broadcasters and they have no love for Kevin Hogan. They describe him as a below-average PAC 12 quarterback every chance they get.
I agree. Keller Chryst can't arrive on campus soon enough. Now that we are finally getting some WR play, we need a QB who can take utilize their talents. The elite defense and good OL and running game have compensated for the relatively less good play at QB for this season and last.
Hopefully Kevin can improve, because for now I'm not sure we have anyone better. It is hard for the coaching staff to start over with Evan Crower while we are still winning most of our games. Brett Nottingham may have been better than Nunes or Hogan, but it is unclear if he ever got a fair chance. For now, Hogan is what we have, for better or worse.
10-27-2013, 12:27 PM
I've only played sand lot football. But, I do remember how a simple thing like a sore thumb or a minor headache made it very difficult to complete passes. Maybe we are just blowing this out of proportion.
I've only played sand lot football. But, I do remember how a simple thing like a sore thumb or a minor headache made it very difficult to complete passes. Maybe we are just blowing this out of proportion.
10-27-2013, 12:56 PM
Coaches, like teachers and bosses, have their favorites. Team consensus, from a former player, was that Nottingham would get the nod over hogan. Coaches aren't stupid for picking hogan, but they like who they like. I don't know why anyone would really believe that the coaches solely make decisions based on talent. Yes, they are motivated to put the best product out thereto win games, but humans aren't rational actors. Just like we as fans can fall in love with a certain player or play call, so can coaches. Looked at it another way, couldn't Shaw's stubborn play calling extend to his sticking with certain players too long.
Coaches, like teachers and bosses, have their favorites. Team consensus, from a former player, was that Nottingham would get the nod over hogan. Coaches aren't stupid for picking hogan, but they like who they like. I don't know why anyone would really believe that the coaches solely make decisions based on talent. Yes, they are motivated to put the best product out thereto win games, but humans aren't rational actors. Just like we as fans can fall in love with a certain player or play call, so can coaches. Looked at it another way, couldn't Shaw's stubborn play calling extend to his sticking with certain players too long.
10-27-2013, 12:57 PM
(10-27-2013, 12:27 PM)Extra Point link Wrote:Maybe we are just blowing this out of proportion.Ah-ooo-gah! Ah-oo-gah!
(10-27-2013, 12:27 PM)Extra Point link Wrote:Maybe we are just blowing this out of proportion.Ah-ooo-gah! Ah-oo-gah!
10-27-2013, 01:01 PM
(10-26-2013, 11:26 PM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:He threw some really ugly balls tonight. Looked like he had grease on his hand when throwing, like the ball was slipping out when he threw it. Anyone know if or how he might be injured?
I swear, I was thinking the same thing. He looks like he's hurt. Maybe he is just trying to emulate Spurrier the wounded duck QB, but he looks like his shoulder hurts to me.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
(10-26-2013, 11:26 PM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:He threw some really ugly balls tonight. Looked like he had grease on his hand when throwing, like the ball was slipping out when he threw it. Anyone know if or how he might be injured?
I swear, I was thinking the same thing. He looks like he's hurt. Maybe he is just trying to emulate Spurrier the wounded duck QB, but he looks like his shoulder hurts to me.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
10-27-2013, 03:15 PM
His progressions as he winds up to throw have always looked "different" from what we're used to, but last night it seemed like he was just flinging it.
"To the press alone, checkered as it is with abuses, the world is indebted for all the triumphs which have been gained by reason and humanity over error and oppression." ~ James Madison
His progressions as he winds up to throw have always looked "different" from what we're used to, but last night it seemed like he was just flinging it.
"To the press alone, checkered as it is with abuses, the world is indebted for all the triumphs which have been gained by reason and humanity over error and oppression." ~ James Madison
twgin
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10-27-2013, 04:31 PM
Leadership. Hard to quantify, separate from skills. Forget about Luck's considerable skills, the team would have blocked for him through the Gates of Hell (hmmmm, overly dramatic much ?)
Stanford and college football lore is filled with examples of leadership.
Part of the problem with Nunes ? Do our current coaches favor competence over leadership ? Is that magical ability to audible to the correct play every time more important than competitive desire or leadership ?
That's what I always got between the lines with Nottingham, that he was a leader and the team was eager for that leadership. I could be way off the mark.
Kevin Hogan ? I honestly don't know, I suspect everything around him is wrapped so tight that it's hard to break out. Maybe Nottingham was too much of a free swinger to have much of a chance.
Stanford and college football lore is filled with examples of leadership.
Part of the problem with Nunes ? Do our current coaches favor competence over leadership ? Is that magical ability to audible to the correct play every time more important than competitive desire or leadership ?
That's what I always got between the lines with Nottingham, that he was a leader and the team was eager for that leadership. I could be way off the mark.
Kevin Hogan ? I honestly don't know, I suspect everything around him is wrapped so tight that it's hard to break out. Maybe Nottingham was too much of a free swinger to have much of a chance.
Leadership. Hard to quantify, separate from skills. Forget about Luck's considerable skills, the team would have blocked for him through the Gates of Hell (hmmmm, overly dramatic much ?)
Stanford and college football lore is filled with examples of leadership.
Part of the problem with Nunes ? Do our current coaches favor competence over leadership ? Is that magical ability to audible to the correct play every time more important than competitive desire or leadership ?
That's what I always got between the lines with Nottingham, that he was a leader and the team was eager for that leadership. I could be way off the mark.
Kevin Hogan ? I honestly don't know, I suspect everything around him is wrapped so tight that it's hard to break out. Maybe Nottingham was too much of a free swinger to have much of a chance.
Stanford and college football lore is filled with examples of leadership.
Part of the problem with Nunes ? Do our current coaches favor competence over leadership ? Is that magical ability to audible to the correct play every time more important than competitive desire or leadership ?
That's what I always got between the lines with Nottingham, that he was a leader and the team was eager for that leadership. I could be way off the mark.
Kevin Hogan ? I honestly don't know, I suspect everything around him is wrapped so tight that it's hard to break out. Maybe Nottingham was too much of a free swinger to have much of a chance.
10-27-2013, 05:56 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-27-2013, 06:42 PM by CowboyIndian.)
(10-27-2013, 04:31 PM)twgin link Wrote:That's what I always got between the lines with Nottingham, that he was a leader and the team was eager for that leadership. I could be way off the mark.
Maybe Nottingham was too much of a free swinger to have much of a chance.
Is that you, Mrs. Nottingham? Really? We're going to revisit this?
(This post was last modified: 10-27-2013, 06:42 PM by CowboyIndian.)
(10-27-2013, 04:31 PM)twgin link Wrote:That's what I always got between the lines with Nottingham, that he was a leader and the team was eager for that leadership. I could be way off the mark.
Maybe Nottingham was too much of a free swinger to have much of a chance.
Is that you, Mrs. Nottingham? Really? We're going to revisit this?
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