[CornFed]

I don't know the time frame of your DeLaveaga outings, Treebound, but when I was at Stanford (early 70's) I think the student rate at the Stanford Golf Course was about $5.  I don't recall a public course within 200 miles that was anywhere close to as good as Stanford's and they mostly cost significantly more.  I presume there were more factors going into the equation that skewed your decision, but I couldn't (and still can't) get enough of the Stanford course.

Not to mention that it is at an important element that distinguishes Stanford from the University of Phoenix (with appropriate deference to Yvonne)!

[CornFed]

I don't know the time frame of your DeLaveaga outings, Treebound, but when I was at Stanford (early 70's) I think the student rate at the Stanford Golf Course was about $5.  I don't recall a public course within 200 miles that was anywhere close to as good as Stanford's and they mostly cost significantly more.  I presume there were more factors going into the equation that skewed your decision, but I couldn't (and still can't) get enough of the Stanford course.

Not to mention that it is at an important element that distinguishes Stanford from the University of Phoenix (with appropriate deference to Yvonne)!

[Treebound]

I was at Stanford from 1982-87, Cornfed.  The 10 play card for $50 at that time, meant that I could play 18 holes for $5.  I can't remember the walk up rate for students then, maybe $12.50?    I love the Stanford Golf Course and I play it often now as I live in Menlo Park.  I don't consider it a muni course as it's not open to the general public.  You need to be a member, a student, or have some affiliation with Stanford.  The two best true muni courses that I have played are DeLaveaga and Torrey Pines down in SD.  As others have mentioned them above, Spyglass and Pasatiempo hold special places in my heart and nothing compares to Cypress for me (would love to play it one more time)!  Bandon is the best boys/mens golf destination I've had the pleasure of playing.  Sounds like I need to find the Sheep Ranch next time, as I trust Hulk's golf course recommendations (or maybe's his son's)! 

One issue with Stanford GC:  I don't like the back to back par 3s on the front that came out of the Sand Hill Road widening.  They could have easily changed that by using some of the land that they later wound up using for the Siebel practice facility.  I appreciated that old 4th hole as it made you think about positioning for your approach off that narrow tee box.  Hit it right and you were on Sand Hill. Pull it left or hit it long, you were in the creek.    Go for it and you might get lucky and just get to the front landing area! 

[Treebound]

I was at Stanford from 1982-87, Cornfed.  The 10 play card for $50 at that time, meant that I could play 18 holes for $5.  I can't remember the walk up rate for students then, maybe $12.50?    I love the Stanford Golf Course and I play it often now as I live in Menlo Park.  I don't consider it a muni course as it's not open to the general public.  You need to be a member, a student, or have some affiliation with Stanford.  The two best true muni courses that I have played are DeLaveaga and Torrey Pines down in SD.  As others have mentioned them above, Spyglass and Pasatiempo hold special places in my heart and nothing compares to Cypress for me (would love to play it one more time)!  Bandon is the best boys/mens golf destination I've had the pleasure of playing.  Sounds like I need to find the Sheep Ranch next time, as I trust Hulk's golf course recommendations (or maybe's his son's)! 

One issue with Stanford GC:  I don't like the back to back par 3s on the front that came out of the Sand Hill Road widening.  They could have easily changed that by using some of the land that they later wound up using for the Siebel practice facility.  I appreciated that old 4th hole as it made you think about positioning for your approach off that narrow tee box.  Hit it right and you were on Sand Hill. Pull it left or hit it long, you were in the creek.    Go for it and you might get lucky and just get to the front landing area! 

[Mick]

I love the Pasatiempo stories, Mick!  I grew up for a part of my life in Santa Cruz and my father, who wasn't much of a golfer (he is an artist/painter who winters in Mexico) would take me out once or twice a year to play Pasatiempo with his buddies.  It was the nicest course that I knew of at the time!

  Most of my summers with him were spent playing the poor man's Pasa - DeLaveaga.  I haven't played it in 5 or so years, but it was arguably the best muni course in Northern California.  Every summer I would scour the canyon holes and get my supply of golf balls as well as some bad patches of poison oak.  I continued the tradition when I went off to Stanford where each Fall you would find me spending an afternoon or two working my way down San Francisquito creek with a bag of new Titleist balls that I would find.  I would buy my 10 play card for $50 and be set for 4-5 months.  My fraternity brothers all laughed at my golfing habits as they didn't play.  We were all up at Bandon last year and they now regret not joining me as they took up the game later in life and missed the wonderful opportunity we had at Stanford. 

My daughter will now be playing beach volleyball down at Cowell's this summer, so I'm hoping to make it back to Pasatiempo and Delveaga for a round or two!

I'm with you on Delaveaga.  The pro at the time was Gary Loustalot, just a great, great guy.  He was my gold coach in high school, and his brother Vic won the California Amateur in the mid-1960s, if I recall correctly.  Gary's oldest son Mike was my year, he was the #1 player on the team as a freshman (usually shot low 70s), then played at either Arizona or Arizona State.  His middle son Dave is married to the mother of Stanford All-American MVB player Brian Cook.  His youngest son Tim played on the Vardon tour for a while and made it into some PGA events.  I think he may have been somewhat short of the tee. 

For those of you who would like to try a gem of a public course, I might suggest Pacific Grove Muni, the "Poor Man's Pebble Beach."  Front nine is like any other public course.  The back nine is all along the ocean, and the rough on a lot of holes is iceplant.  Beautiful little course.  I remember my wife and I were playing there very early one morning, and it was very foggy out.  The seagulls were screeching, and it was quiet and you could smell the ocean.  It was beautiful.  I said "Babe, this is so nice out here, it's just like a private course."  Right then, a ball came whizzing between our heads, and out of the mist walked four shirtless drunk guys, apologizing for hitting their balls into us.  "Now I remember...it's a public course." said I.

[Mick]

I love the Pasatiempo stories, Mick!  I grew up for a part of my life in Santa Cruz and my father, who wasn't much of a golfer (he is an artist/painter who winters in Mexico) would take me out once or twice a year to play Pasatiempo with his buddies.  It was the nicest course that I knew of at the time!

  Most of my summers with him were spent playing the poor man's Pasa - DeLaveaga.  I haven't played it in 5 or so years, but it was arguably the best muni course in Northern California.  Every summer I would scour the canyon holes and get my supply of golf balls as well as some bad patches of poison oak.  I continued the tradition when I went off to Stanford where each Fall you would find me spending an afternoon or two working my way down San Francisquito creek with a bag of new Titleist balls that I would find.  I would buy my 10 play card for $50 and be set for 4-5 months.  My fraternity brothers all laughed at my golfing habits as they didn't play.  We were all up at Bandon last year and they now regret not joining me as they took up the game later in life and missed the wonderful opportunity we had at Stanford. 

My daughter will now be playing beach volleyball down at Cowell's this summer, so I'm hoping to make it back to Pasatiempo and Delveaga for a round or two!

I'm with you on Delaveaga.  The pro at the time was Gary Loustalot, just a great, great guy.  He was my gold coach in high school, and his brother Vic won the California Amateur in the mid-1960s, if I recall correctly.  Gary's oldest son Mike was my year, he was the #1 player on the team as a freshman (usually shot low 70s), then played at either Arizona or Arizona State.  His middle son Dave is married to the mother of Stanford All-American MVB player Brian Cook.  His youngest son Tim played on the Vardon tour for a while and made it into some PGA events.  I think he may have been somewhat short of the tee. 

For those of you who would like to try a gem of a public course, I might suggest Pacific Grove Muni, the "Poor Man's Pebble Beach."  Front nine is like any other public course.  The back nine is all along the ocean, and the rough on a lot of holes is iceplant.  Beautiful little course.  I remember my wife and I were playing there very early one morning, and it was very foggy out.  The seagulls were screeching, and it was quiet and you could smell the ocean.  It was beautiful.  I said "Babe, this is so nice out here, it's just like a private course."  Right then, a ball came whizzing between our heads, and out of the mist walked four shirtless drunk guys, apologizing for hitting their balls into us.  "Now I remember...it's a public course." said I.

[CornFed]

One issue with Stanford GC:  I don't like the back to back par 3s on the front that came out of the Sand Hill Road widening.  They could have easily changed that by using some of the land that they later wound up using for the Siebel practice facility.  I appreciated that old 4th hole as it made you think about positioning for your approach off that narrow tee box.  Hit it right and you were on Sand Hill. Pull it left or hit it long, you were in the creek.    Go for it and you might get lucky and just get to the front landing area!

Totally agree w/ you about the redesign.  Sequential par 3's is a little funky, but it is the loss of a very interesting hole that is the real downside.  Old #4 had a boatload of tactical challenges, and each sequential shot resulted in a new set of tactical alternatives, depending on how that previous shot had been executed.

[CornFed]

One issue with Stanford GC:  I don't like the back to back par 3s on the front that came out of the Sand Hill Road widening.  They could have easily changed that by using some of the land that they later wound up using for the Siebel practice facility.  I appreciated that old 4th hole as it made you think about positioning for your approach off that narrow tee box.  Hit it right and you were on Sand Hill. Pull it left or hit it long, you were in the creek.    Go for it and you might get lucky and just get to the front landing area!

Totally agree w/ you about the redesign.  Sequential par 3's is a little funky, but it is the loss of a very interesting hole that is the real downside.  Old #4 had a boatload of tactical challenges, and each sequential shot resulted in a new set of tactical alternatives, depending on how that previous shot had been executed.

[Stymie]

"Old #4" to you was criminally designed successor to the original 4th, which was a long (for its day) par-4 which paralleled Sand Hill all the way to Alameda des las Pulges.  The green (still there last time I played ~2002) was two-tiered and scary fast from back to front (not that many people had the skill or the cojones to try to get at a back pin.  Bestest of all. however, was the fact that the green segued  seamlessy into the great back 5th tee, seemingly up in the clouds....

[Stymie]

"Old #4" to you was criminally designed successor to the original 4th, which was a long (for its day) par-4 which paralleled Sand Hill all the way to Alameda des las Pulges.  The green (still there last time I played ~2002) was two-tiered and scary fast from back to front (not that many people had the skill or the cojones to try to get at a back pin.  Bestest of all. however, was the fact that the green segued  seamlessy into the great back 5th tee, seemingly up in the clouds....

[Treebound]

Thank you for that history lesson, Stymie.  When did they change the 4th hole to a short par 4?  It must have coincided with a slight widening of Sand Hill pre 1982 when I arrived.  I remember those Spruce pines that lined the fairway on the right looked out of place and wondered if the original hole was along the road, but guessed that too many slices onto Sand Hill were causing fits for the nascent VCs and their commutes.  I occasionally used that "practice green" at the corner of Alameda and Sand Hill with my young son.    I do remember that "tee box up in the clouds!"  I heard Tiger was willing to donate to keep one of those holes a par 4, so perhaps someday soon they will restore the course.

Mick, I remember Gary and took a few lessons from him!  My father knew him from the Cooper House (his gallery was there under the glass and he played in the band Warmth).  As for Pacific Grove, it's like playing two courses.  I love the back 9, but Beware the ice plant! 

[Treebound]

Thank you for that history lesson, Stymie.  When did they change the 4th hole to a short par 4?  It must have coincided with a slight widening of Sand Hill pre 1982 when I arrived.  I remember those Spruce pines that lined the fairway on the right looked out of place and wondered if the original hole was along the road, but guessed that too many slices onto Sand Hill were causing fits for the nascent VCs and their commutes.  I occasionally used that "practice green" at the corner of Alameda and Sand Hill with my young son.    I do remember that "tee box up in the clouds!"  I heard Tiger was willing to donate to keep one of those holes a par 4, so perhaps someday soon they will restore the course.

Mick, I remember Gary and took a few lessons from him!  My father knew him from the Cooper House (his gallery was there under the glass and he played in the band Warmth).  As for Pacific Grove, it's like playing two courses.  I love the back 9, but Beware the ice plant! 

[CornFed]

Wow!  I had never even heard of the old, old #4.  I played from '70 to '74 and it was the shorter par 4 track by the time I got there.

[CornFed]

Wow!  I had never even heard of the old, old #4.  I played from '70 to '74 and it was the shorter par 4 track by the time I got there.

[CornFed]

[quote author=CornFed link=topic=10000.msg89928#msg89928 date=1400728230]
Wow!  I had never even heard of the old, old #4.  I played from '70 to '74 and it was the shorter par 4 track by the time I got there.

I played that hole in 1927 and, believe me, it was much better.
[/quote]

Not sure I understand this.  I think I'm confused.  I'm getting much more used to this as my current state of affairs.

[CornFed]

[quote author=CornFed link=topic=10000.msg89928#msg89928 date=1400728230]
Wow!  I had never even heard of the old, old #4.  I played from '70 to '74 and it was the shorter par 4 track by the time I got there.

I played that hole in 1927 and, believe me, it was much better.
[/quote]

Not sure I understand this.  I think I'm confused.  I'm getting much more used to this as my current state of affairs.

[Stymie]

Stymie, Hulk - have either of you had a chance to play the Sheep Ranch at Bandon?  A nearly unfindable but (reportedly) exhilarating course.  Like the mythical Burningbush, a spiritual experience.

Have seen it but haven't played it although have been offerred to--too many golfing opportunities, too little time.  From those I know who have played, it has been a magical experience for them.  For me, playing any links course here in Scotland in the gloaming or at daybreak, when the sun is just skimming under the horizon or out of it for a few hours in mid June, and making up holes to play as you go along is just as good if not better.

[Stymie]

Stymie, Hulk - have either of you had a chance to play the Sheep Ranch at Bandon?  A nearly unfindable but (reportedly) exhilarating course.  Like the mythical Burningbush, a spiritual experience.

Have seen it but haven't played it although have been offerred to--too many golfing opportunities, too little time.  From those I know who have played, it has been a magical experience for them.  For me, playing any links course here in Scotland in the gloaming or at daybreak, when the sun is just skimming under the horizon or out of it for a few hours in mid June, and making up holes to play as you go along is just as good if not better.

[Treebound]

Cornfed, I think that's MikeFerrari making fun of our thread.  He's probably not a golfer and wants us to help him with his handle/car choice.  Personally, I like Garvin's suggestion and even forwarded his Bluto story to some good Stanford friends.  We can keep it to "Pinto!"

Stymie, Where are you in Scotland and what courses do you tend to play there?  We are trying to plan a trip across the pond for next year.    As for Sheep Ranch, our caddie pointed it out from the North side of Pacific Dunes (I think).  He too, said is was magical.  Sounds like another trip is in order.

[Treebound]

Cornfed, I think that's MikeFerrari making fun of our thread.  He's probably not a golfer and wants us to help him with his handle/car choice.  Personally, I like Garvin's suggestion and even forwarded his Bluto story to some good Stanford friends.  We can keep it to "Pinto!"

Stymie, Where are you in Scotland and what courses do you tend to play there?  We are trying to plan a trip across the pond for next year.    As for Sheep Ranch, our caddie pointed it out from the North side of Pacific Dunes (I think).  He too, said is was magical.  Sounds like another trip is in order.

[Spiny_Norman]

Stymie lives in Scotland?  Oh my, I am jealous.  When I finished grad school, my buddies and I took a dream trip - 10 days in Scotland, 10 days in Ireland and then returned to Ayr to watch the Open championship at Troon.  We played Birkdale on the way to Scotland then hit Southerness, North Berwick, St Andrew (Old), St Andrews (New), Carnoustie, Dornoch, Ladybank, BelleIsle, Prestwick.  We could have played all summer and still not hit all of the courses on my "want to play" list. 

A local like Stymie doesn't have to make tough choices that visitors do.  Let's see, should the schedule for this month include Western Gailes and Macrihanish?  Cruden Bay and Gullane?  Each round followed by shots of the local amber-colored nectar at the 19th hole.  Sounds like a sweet life to me.

[Spiny_Norman]

Stymie lives in Scotland?  Oh my, I am jealous.  When I finished grad school, my buddies and I took a dream trip - 10 days in Scotland, 10 days in Ireland and then returned to Ayr to watch the Open championship at Troon.  We played Birkdale on the way to Scotland then hit Southerness, North Berwick, St Andrew (Old), St Andrews (New), Carnoustie, Dornoch, Ladybank, BelleIsle, Prestwick.  We could have played all summer and still not hit all of the courses on my "want to play" list. 

A local like Stymie doesn't have to make tough choices that visitors do.  Let's see, should the schedule for this month include Western Gailes and Macrihanish?  Cruden Bay and Gullane?  Each round followed by shots of the local amber-colored nectar at the 19th hole.  Sounds like a sweet life to me.

[Stymie]

Stymie, Where are you in Scotland and what courses do you tend to play there?  We are trying to plan a trip across the pond for next year.    As for Sheep Ranch, our caddie pointed it out from the North side of Pacific Dunes (I think).  He too, said is was magical.  Sounds like another trip is in order.

Treebound

I live in Fife, roughly equidistant (by car) from Edinburgh and St. Andrews.  I play most of my golf either in low handicap amateur senior events throughout Britain or with my wife.  Just got back from a 2-day competition in Wales.  My local course has great views across the Firth of Forth but is otherwise only just above average, and I use it more for drinking and contemplating than playing.  I visit my other course (Dornoch) 2-5 times a year.  I've played probably 30 of the "top 50" courses in the world and Dornoch is the best golfing experience of the lot, IMHO of course.  Vis a vis your contemplated trip to Scotland next year, I'd be happy to help.  Feel free to ping me on this site, if and when your plans begin to congeal.

Stymie

[Stymie]

Stymie, Where are you in Scotland and what courses do you tend to play there?  We are trying to plan a trip across the pond for next year.    As for Sheep Ranch, our caddie pointed it out from the North side of Pacific Dunes (I think).  He too, said is was magical.  Sounds like another trip is in order.

Treebound

I live in Fife, roughly equidistant (by car) from Edinburgh and St. Andrews.  I play most of my golf either in low handicap amateur senior events throughout Britain or with my wife.  Just got back from a 2-day competition in Wales.  My local course has great views across the Firth of Forth but is otherwise only just above average, and I use it more for drinking and contemplating than playing.  I visit my other course (Dornoch) 2-5 times a year.  I've played probably 30 of the "top 50" courses in the world and Dornoch is the best golfing experience of the lot, IMHO of course.  Vis a vis your contemplated trip to Scotland next year, I'd be happy to help.  Feel free to ping me on this site, if and when your plans begin to congeal.

Stymie

[CornFed]

You guys are doomed.

http://www.oregonlive.com/playbooks-prof...st_38.html

This kind of stuff is pretty old news, but that doesn't invalidate the assessment of the current conditions in the industry.  The number of rounds played in the US per year went down for the first time in 1999 or 2000 and has gone down each year since.  Many private clubs have shut down and private courses entered bankruptcy during that period.  The economic meltdown has transformed the way people spend and borrow in substantial ways.  Golf spending is discretionary and people continue to reduce play, practice more, or simply take up bowling.  :(

[CornFed]

You guys are doomed.

http://www.oregonlive.com/playbooks-prof...st_38.html

This kind of stuff is pretty old news, but that doesn't invalidate the assessment of the current conditions in the industry.  The number of rounds played in the US per year went down for the first time in 1999 or 2000 and has gone down each year since.  Many private clubs have shut down and private courses entered bankruptcy during that period.  The economic meltdown has transformed the way people spend and borrow in substantial ways.  Golf spending is discretionary and people continue to reduce play, practice more, or simply take up bowling.  :(