[GoodGrief]

http://deadspin.com/my-injury-file-how-i...5/+barryap

I only skimmed it, but it's a horrorshow of injuries and the pains that athletes take to try to play anyway.

[GoodGrief]

http://deadspin.com/my-injury-file-how-i...5/+barryap

I only skimmed it, but it's a horrorshow of injuries and the pains that athletes take to try to play anyway.

[stupac2]

I posted about that book a while ago, last xmas IIRC. It's a great read, highly recommend it.

[stupac2]

I posted about that book a while ago, last xmas IIRC. It's a great read, highly recommend it.

[81alum]

Thanks for the link.  A very lively read, written with a dark sense of humor.  I was left wondering whether his experience was typical or whether he was more injury-prone than most in football.

We encountered these issues as a family when my daughter was an up-and-coming national caliber gymnast, from ages 4-14.  I am still very proud of her accomplishments, but we mutually agreed to her decision to quit after a landing pulled her achilles off of the growth plates in her heel.  Fortunately the growth plates were not permanently damaged--but if they had been she would have grown unevenly.  We reasoned that everyone quits gymnastics eventually--it is not a lifetime activity--and it would be best to quit before she did permanent damage to her body.  Given her talent it was a wrenching decision--it wasn't until last year that she could pack up all the boxes of medals and ribbons and trophies--but it was the right decision.  She now has a bright future and two legs of equal length.

I know how easy it is to gradually slide deeper and narrowly into the world of these decisions and to lose sight of someone's long term interests--when the prospects of short term glory are within reach.  The professional football player in the article captures this feeling very well--each medical decision seemed reasonable at the time--but there seemed to be little opportunity to step back and really see the "big picture" and draw the conclusion that the entire way of life is simply insane.  Not even when he was sneaking HGH across the border from Mexico...in fact, he never really did make the decision to stop--his body did it for him.  This kind of behavior is remarkably similar to nearly all addictive behaviors, whether it is the alcoholic who will not stop until after hitting bottom, or the drug addict who will not stop until he turns up in the emergency room, or the gambler who will not stop until he is bankrupt.

And so I am often conflicted about my love of athletics.  So many of our games are beautiful human achievements--ranking I would say with all the great works of art and literature of our culture, although they are not often seen that way.  But the fact that many of them depend on a level of human misery is deeply troubling. 

[81alum]

Thanks for the link.  A very lively read, written with a dark sense of humor.  I was left wondering whether his experience was typical or whether he was more injury-prone than most in football.

We encountered these issues as a family when my daughter was an up-and-coming national caliber gymnast, from ages 4-14.  I am still very proud of her accomplishments, but we mutually agreed to her decision to quit after a landing pulled her achilles off of the growth plates in her heel.  Fortunately the growth plates were not permanently damaged--but if they had been she would have grown unevenly.  We reasoned that everyone quits gymnastics eventually--it is not a lifetime activity--and it would be best to quit before she did permanent damage to her body.  Given her talent it was a wrenching decision--it wasn't until last year that she could pack up all the boxes of medals and ribbons and trophies--but it was the right decision.  She now has a bright future and two legs of equal length.

I know how easy it is to gradually slide deeper and narrowly into the world of these decisions and to lose sight of someone's long term interests--when the prospects of short term glory are within reach.  The professional football player in the article captures this feeling very well--each medical decision seemed reasonable at the time--but there seemed to be little opportunity to step back and really see the "big picture" and draw the conclusion that the entire way of life is simply insane.  Not even when he was sneaking HGH across the border from Mexico...in fact, he never really did make the decision to stop--his body did it for him.  This kind of behavior is remarkably similar to nearly all addictive behaviors, whether it is the alcoholic who will not stop until after hitting bottom, or the drug addict who will not stop until he turns up in the emergency room, or the gambler who will not stop until he is bankrupt.

And so I am often conflicted about my love of athletics.  So many of our games are beautiful human achievements--ranking I would say with all the great works of art and literature of our culture, although they are not often seen that way.  But the fact that many of them depend on a level of human misery is deeply troubling. 

[Nan3cy]

I read the book after the first recommendation was posted. It was very good.

[Nan3cy]

I read the book after the first recommendation was posted. It was very good.

[Mick]

Thanks for the link.  A very lively read, written with a dark sense of humor.  I was left wondering whether his experience was typical or whether he was more injury-prone than most in football.

We encountered these issues as a family when my daughter was an up-and-coming national caliber gymnast, from ages 4-14.  I am still very proud of her accomplishments, but we mutually agreed to her decision to quit after a landing pulled her achilles off of the growth plates in her heel.  Fortunately the growth plates were not permanently damaged--but if they had been she would have grown unevenly.  We reasoned that everyone quits gymnastics eventually--it is not a lifetime activity--and it would be best to quit before she did permanent damage to her body.  Given her talent it was a wrenching decision--it wasn't until last year that she could pack up all the boxes of medals and ribbons and trophies--but it was the right decision.  She now has a bright future and two legs of equal length.

I know how easy it is to gradually slide deeper and narrowly into the world of these decisions and to lose sight of someone's long term interests--when the prospects of short term glory are within reach.  The professional football player in the article captures this feeling very well--each medical decision seemed reasonable at the time--but there seemed to be little opportunity to step back and really see the "big picture" and draw the conclusion that the entire way of life is simply insane.  Not even when he was sneaking HGH across the border from Mexico...in fact, he never really did make the decision to stop--his body did it for him.  This kind of behavior is remarkably similar to nearly all addictive behaviors, whether it is the alcoholic who will not stop until after hitting bottom, or the drug addict who will not stop until he turns up in the emergency room, or the gambler who will not stop until he is bankrupt.

And so I am often conflicted about my love of athletics.  So many of our games are beautiful human achievements--ranking I would say with all the great works of art and literature of our culture, although they are not often seen that way.  But the fact that many of them depend on a level of human misery is deeply troubling.

That experience sounds very familiar.  My son played competitive volleyball from fifth grade on.  He was an outside hitter, and good enough that he not only played D1, but ranked in the NCAA Top 10 in at least one category his freshman year.  Had a good enough sophomore year, but blew out his shoulder through years of overuse.  Split capsule, rotator cuff, ligament damage, the whole nine yards.  Big surgery.  Came back to play well.  Graduated last June.  Now my younger son is on the same college team.  His shoulder will be fine, but I worry about his knees and back.

[Mick]

Thanks for the link.  A very lively read, written with a dark sense of humor.  I was left wondering whether his experience was typical or whether he was more injury-prone than most in football.

We encountered these issues as a family when my daughter was an up-and-coming national caliber gymnast, from ages 4-14.  I am still very proud of her accomplishments, but we mutually agreed to her decision to quit after a landing pulled her achilles off of the growth plates in her heel.  Fortunately the growth plates were not permanently damaged--but if they had been she would have grown unevenly.  We reasoned that everyone quits gymnastics eventually--it is not a lifetime activity--and it would be best to quit before she did permanent damage to her body.  Given her talent it was a wrenching decision--it wasn't until last year that she could pack up all the boxes of medals and ribbons and trophies--but it was the right decision.  She now has a bright future and two legs of equal length.

I know how easy it is to gradually slide deeper and narrowly into the world of these decisions and to lose sight of someone's long term interests--when the prospects of short term glory are within reach.  The professional football player in the article captures this feeling very well--each medical decision seemed reasonable at the time--but there seemed to be little opportunity to step back and really see the "big picture" and draw the conclusion that the entire way of life is simply insane.  Not even when he was sneaking HGH across the border from Mexico...in fact, he never really did make the decision to stop--his body did it for him.  This kind of behavior is remarkably similar to nearly all addictive behaviors, whether it is the alcoholic who will not stop until after hitting bottom, or the drug addict who will not stop until he turns up in the emergency room, or the gambler who will not stop until he is bankrupt.

And so I am often conflicted about my love of athletics.  So many of our games are beautiful human achievements--ranking I would say with all the great works of art and literature of our culture, although they are not often seen that way.  But the fact that many of them depend on a level of human misery is deeply troubling.

That experience sounds very familiar.  My son played competitive volleyball from fifth grade on.  He was an outside hitter, and good enough that he not only played D1, but ranked in the NCAA Top 10 in at least one category his freshman year.  Had a good enough sophomore year, but blew out his shoulder through years of overuse.  Split capsule, rotator cuff, ligament damage, the whole nine yards.  Big surgery.  Came back to play well.  Graduated last June.  Now my younger son is on the same college team.  His shoulder will be fine, but I worry about his knees and back.

[Rally]

[quote author=81alum link=topic=10547.msg96822#msg96822 date=1410018673]
Thanks for the link.  A very lively read, written with a dark sense of humor.  I was left wondering whether his experience was typical or whether he was more injury-prone than most in football.

We encountered these issues as a family when my daughter was an up-and-coming national caliber gymnast, from ages 4-14.  I am still very proud of her accomplishments, but we mutually agreed to her decision to quit after a landing pulled her achilles off of the growth plates in her heel.  Fortunately the growth plates were not permanently damaged--but if they had been she would have grown unevenly.  We reasoned that everyone quits gymnastics eventually--it is not a lifetime activity--and it would be best to quit before she did permanent damage to her body.  Given her talent it was a wrenching decision--it wasn't until last year that she could pack up all the boxes of medals and ribbons and trophies--but it was the right decision.  She now has a bright future and two legs of equal length.

I know how easy it is to gradually slide deeper and narrowly into the world of these decisions and to lose sight of someone's long term interests--when the prospects of short term glory are within reach.  The professional football player in the article captures this feeling very well--each medical decision seemed reasonable at the time--but there seemed to be little opportunity to step back and really see the "big picture" and draw the conclusion that the entire way of life is simply insane.  Not even when he was sneaking HGH across the border from Mexico...in fact, he never really did make the decision to stop--his body did it for him.  This kind of behavior is remarkably similar to nearly all addictive behaviors, whether it is the alcoholic who will not stop until after hitting bottom, or the drug addict who will not stop until he turns up in the emergency room, or the gambler who will not stop until he is bankrupt.

And so I am often conflicted about my love of athletics.  So many of our games are beautiful human achievements--ranking I would say with all the great works of art and literature of our culture, although they are not often seen that way.  But the fact that many of them depend on a level of human misery is deeply troubling.

That experience sounds very familiar.  My son played competitive volleyball from fifth grade on.  He was an outside hitter, and good enough that he not only played D1, but ranked in the NCAA Top 10 in at least one category his freshman year.  Had a good enough sophomore year, but blew out his shoulder through years of overuse.  Split capsule, rotator cuff, ligament damage, the whole nine yards.  Big surgery.  Came back to play well.  Graduated last June.  Now my younger son is on the same college team.  His shoulder will be fine, but I worry about his knees and back.
[/quote]

Mick, nearly everyone I swam competitively with/against 50 years ago has rotator cuff injury or (as is my case) arthritis in the shoulder.  The research indicates that these particular injuries are most prevalent in swimmers, gymnasts and weight-lifters.  I wouldn't be surprised if similar injury patterns emerge among other sports.  Know what I know now, would I have chosen not to compete?  Never.

[Rally]

[quote author=81alum link=topic=10547.msg96822#msg96822 date=1410018673]
Thanks for the link.  A very lively read, written with a dark sense of humor.  I was left wondering whether his experience was typical or whether he was more injury-prone than most in football.

We encountered these issues as a family when my daughter was an up-and-coming national caliber gymnast, from ages 4-14.  I am still very proud of her accomplishments, but we mutually agreed to her decision to quit after a landing pulled her achilles off of the growth plates in her heel.  Fortunately the growth plates were not permanently damaged--but if they had been she would have grown unevenly.  We reasoned that everyone quits gymnastics eventually--it is not a lifetime activity--and it would be best to quit before she did permanent damage to her body.  Given her talent it was a wrenching decision--it wasn't until last year that she could pack up all the boxes of medals and ribbons and trophies--but it was the right decision.  She now has a bright future and two legs of equal length.

I know how easy it is to gradually slide deeper and narrowly into the world of these decisions and to lose sight of someone's long term interests--when the prospects of short term glory are within reach.  The professional football player in the article captures this feeling very well--each medical decision seemed reasonable at the time--but there seemed to be little opportunity to step back and really see the "big picture" and draw the conclusion that the entire way of life is simply insane.  Not even when he was sneaking HGH across the border from Mexico...in fact, he never really did make the decision to stop--his body did it for him.  This kind of behavior is remarkably similar to nearly all addictive behaviors, whether it is the alcoholic who will not stop until after hitting bottom, or the drug addict who will not stop until he turns up in the emergency room, or the gambler who will not stop until he is bankrupt.

And so I am often conflicted about my love of athletics.  So many of our games are beautiful human achievements--ranking I would say with all the great works of art and literature of our culture, although they are not often seen that way.  But the fact that many of them depend on a level of human misery is deeply troubling.

That experience sounds very familiar.  My son played competitive volleyball from fifth grade on.  He was an outside hitter, and good enough that he not only played D1, but ranked in the NCAA Top 10 in at least one category his freshman year.  Had a good enough sophomore year, but blew out his shoulder through years of overuse.  Split capsule, rotator cuff, ligament damage, the whole nine yards.  Big surgery.  Came back to play well.  Graduated last June.  Now my younger son is on the same college team.  His shoulder will be fine, but I worry about his knees and back.
[/quote]

Mick, nearly everyone I swam competitively with/against 50 years ago has rotator cuff injury or (as is my case) arthritis in the shoulder.  The research indicates that these particular injuries are most prevalent in swimmers, gymnasts and weight-lifters.  I wouldn't be surprised if similar injury patterns emerge among other sports.  Know what I know now, would I have chosen not to compete?  Never.

[Mick]

Mick, nearly everyone I swam competitively with/against 50 years ago has rotator cuff injury or (as is my case) arthritis in the shoulder.  The research indicates that these particular injuries are most prevalent in swimmers, gymnasts and weight-lifters.  I wouldn't be surprised if similar injury patterns emerge among other sports.  Know what I know now, would I have chosen not to compete?  Never.

My son feels exactly the same way, and FWLIW, I played on terrible basketball and football teams in high school, and my shoulder is shot and my ankles were broken and sprained repeatedly.  I still would have played, it's just the cost of doing business.

[Mick]

Mick, nearly everyone I swam competitively with/against 50 years ago has rotator cuff injury or (as is my case) arthritis in the shoulder.  The research indicates that these particular injuries are most prevalent in swimmers, gymnasts and weight-lifters.  I wouldn't be surprised if similar injury patterns emerge among other sports.  Know what I know now, would I have chosen not to compete?  Never.

My son feels exactly the same way, and FWLIW, I played on terrible basketball and football teams in high school, and my shoulder is shot and my ankles were broken and sprained repeatedly.  I still would have played, it's just the cost of doing business.

[Rally]

[quote author=ferrari link=topic=10547.msg97132#msg97132 date=1410057534]
Mick, nearly everyone I swam competitively with/against 50 years ago has rotator cuff injury or (as is my case) arthritis in the shoulder.  The research indicates that these particular injuries are most prevalent in swimmers, gymnasts and weight-lifters.  I wouldn't be surprised if similar injury patterns emerge among other sports.  Know what I know now, would I have chosen not to compete?  Never.

My son feels exactly the same way, and FWLIW, I played on terrible basketball and football teams in high school, and my shoulder is shot and my ankles were broken and sprained repeatedly.  I still would have played, it's just the cost of doing business.
[/quote]

Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.

[Rally]

[quote author=ferrari link=topic=10547.msg97132#msg97132 date=1410057534]
Mick, nearly everyone I swam competitively with/against 50 years ago has rotator cuff injury or (as is my case) arthritis in the shoulder.  The research indicates that these particular injuries are most prevalent in swimmers, gymnasts and weight-lifters.  I wouldn't be surprised if similar injury patterns emerge among other sports.  Know what I know now, would I have chosen not to compete?  Never.

My son feels exactly the same way, and FWLIW, I played on terrible basketball and football teams in high school, and my shoulder is shot and my ankles were broken and sprained repeatedly.  I still would have played, it's just the cost of doing business.
[/quote]

Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.

[Mick]

[quote author=Mick link=topic=10547.msg97136#msg97136 date=1410057690]
[quote author=ferrari link=topic=10547.msg97132#msg97132 date=1410057534]
Mick, nearly everyone I swam competitively with/against 50 years ago has rotator cuff injury or (as is my case) arthritis in the shoulder.  The research indicates that these particular injuries are most prevalent in swimmers, gymnasts and weight-lifters.  I wouldn't be surprised if similar injury patterns emerge among other sports.  Know what I know now, would I have chosen not to compete?  Never.

My son feels exactly the same way, and FWLIW, I played on terrible basketball and football teams in high school, and my shoulder is shot and my ankles were broken and sprained repeatedly.  I still would have played, it's just the cost of doing business.
[/quote]

Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.
[/quote]


Ummmmmm....

[Mick]

[quote author=Mick link=topic=10547.msg97136#msg97136 date=1410057690]
[quote author=ferrari link=topic=10547.msg97132#msg97132 date=1410057534]
Mick, nearly everyone I swam competitively with/against 50 years ago has rotator cuff injury or (as is my case) arthritis in the shoulder.  The research indicates that these particular injuries are most prevalent in swimmers, gymnasts and weight-lifters.  I wouldn't be surprised if similar injury patterns emerge among other sports.  Know what I know now, would I have chosen not to compete?  Never.

My son feels exactly the same way, and FWLIW, I played on terrible basketball and football teams in high school, and my shoulder is shot and my ankles were broken and sprained repeatedly.  I still would have played, it's just the cost of doing business.
[/quote]

Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.
[/quote]


Ummmmmm....

[Rally]

[quote author=ferrari link=topic=10547.msg97141#msg97141 date=1410057866]
[quote author=Mick link=topic=10547.msg97136#msg97136 date=1410057690]
[quote author=ferrari link=topic=10547.msg97132#msg97132 date=1410057534]
Mick, nearly everyone I swam competitively with/against 50 years ago has rotator cuff injury or (as is my case) arthritis in the shoulder.  The research indicates that these particular injuries are most prevalent in swimmers, gymnasts and weight-lifters.  I wouldn't be surprised if similar injury patterns emerge among other sports.  Know what I know now, would I have chosen not to compete?  Never.

My son feels exactly the same way, and FWLIW, I played on terrible basketball and football teams in high school, and my shoulder is shot and my ankles were broken and sprained repeatedly.  I still would have played, it's just the cost of doing business.
[/quote]

Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.
[/quote]


Ummmmmm....
[/quote]

I loved my sport.  Lost it due to injury at 15.  Recovered it enough to impress Stanford admissions at 16.  Lost it for good as a Stanford frosh.  My hs coach wrote in my senior annual, among other things, " oh, Mike, what could have been."  I told him I wouldn't have traded it for the world.

[Rally]

[quote author=ferrari link=topic=10547.msg97141#msg97141 date=1410057866]
[quote author=Mick link=topic=10547.msg97136#msg97136 date=1410057690]
[quote author=ferrari link=topic=10547.msg97132#msg97132 date=1410057534]
Mick, nearly everyone I swam competitively with/against 50 years ago has rotator cuff injury or (as is my case) arthritis in the shoulder.  The research indicates that these particular injuries are most prevalent in swimmers, gymnasts and weight-lifters.  I wouldn't be surprised if similar injury patterns emerge among other sports.  Know what I know now, would I have chosen not to compete?  Never.

My son feels exactly the same way, and FWLIW, I played on terrible basketball and football teams in high school, and my shoulder is shot and my ankles were broken and sprained repeatedly.  I still would have played, it's just the cost of doing business.
[/quote]

Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.
[/quote]


Ummmmmm....
[/quote]

I loved my sport.  Lost it due to injury at 15.  Recovered it enough to impress Stanford admissions at 16.  Lost it for good as a Stanford frosh.  My hs coach wrote in my senior annual, among other things, " oh, Mike, what could have been."  I told him I wouldn't have traded it for the world.

[Trevmiesterj]

This morning I coached my son's 11 year old youth football team.  Our opponent was a better squad-more aggressive and talented across the board. 

Early in the game we hung in there.  Our team has one very gifted athlete who plays Quarterback and when able to get into space, is quick and powerful enough to out run or out muscle most any defensive player.  We were losing 16-12 when he was injured during a tackle where he got caught up in pile and his shoulder was bent in a way shoulders don't like to be bent.

By the time the game was over, we had two players out of the game (possible concussion, the aforementioned shoulder injury) and two that were hurt (back bruise and helmet to the knee) that were out a significant amount of time but decided to go back in at some point (we check and check again before we let any injured player back into a game and ALWAYS leave the decision to go back in to the player after coach clearance).  We ended up losing 44-12. 

My son is one of the better players on the team and often plays most or all plays during the game, and he loves it.  The camaraderie, the dynamics of the strategy and joy of making a play.  Are the risks serious?  You bet they are even at the youth level.

But to make a decision for him not to play based on the potential for injury is simply not something I feel I should do.

[Trevmiesterj]

This morning I coached my son's 11 year old youth football team.  Our opponent was a better squad-more aggressive and talented across the board. 

Early in the game we hung in there.  Our team has one very gifted athlete who plays Quarterback and when able to get into space, is quick and powerful enough to out run or out muscle most any defensive player.  We were losing 16-12 when he was injured during a tackle where he got caught up in pile and his shoulder was bent in a way shoulders don't like to be bent.

By the time the game was over, we had two players out of the game (possible concussion, the aforementioned shoulder injury) and two that were hurt (back bruise and helmet to the knee) that were out a significant amount of time but decided to go back in at some point (we check and check again before we let any injured player back into a game and ALWAYS leave the decision to go back in to the player after coach clearance).  We ended up losing 44-12. 

My son is one of the better players on the team and often plays most or all plays during the game, and he loves it.  The camaraderie, the dynamics of the strategy and joy of making a play.  Are the risks serious?  You bet they are even at the youth level.

But to make a decision for him not to play based on the potential for injury is simply not something I feel I should do.