[Papa John]

With a bit of trepidation, I've decided to start a new topic on the 2014-15 Capital One Cup. By my count, the Stanford women are in line to win their third COC in five years:


http://www.capitalonecup.com/assets/stan...ndings.pdf


The scoring system is truly bizarre and biased, with extra points awarded for top 10 performances in men's soccer, football, basketball, outdoor T&F, baseball and...lacrosse? On the women's side, extra points are awarded for soccer, volleyball, basketball, softball, outdoor T&F and...lacrosse?


OK, so I get why folks may not care for the COC. On the other hand, if the Stanford women win it, it can't all be bad, right?

[Papa John]

With a bit of trepidation, I've decided to start a new topic on the 2014-15 Capital One Cup. By my count, the Stanford women are in line to win their third COC in five years:


http://www.capitalonecup.com/assets/stan...ndings.pdf


The scoring system is truly bizarre and biased, with extra points awarded for top 10 performances in men's soccer, football, basketball, outdoor T&F, baseball and...lacrosse? On the women's side, extra points are awarded for soccer, volleyball, basketball, softball, outdoor T&F and...lacrosse?


OK, so I get why folks may not care for the COC. On the other hand, if the Stanford women win it, it can't all be bad, right?

[yvonne]

:o

[yvonne]

:o

[fullmetal]

Gotta love North Dakota State with those 60 DIII football points beating so many other schools on the men's side.

[fullmetal]

Gotta love North Dakota State with those 60 DIII football points beating so many other schools on the men's side.

[FarmDad.01]

[size=1.35em]Lacrosse is a "major" sport, worth triple team points, as defined by Capital_One_Cup. But as WTF as this criterion may be, know that the credit-card award (which Stanford Women won its first two years) pays the winning school $200,000, per gender, to benefit "student-athletes."

Cardinal women won the first two - and via Women's Golf - just clinched the award for the fifth year.

Director's Cup, another nice crystal.

Capital One Cup, another $200,000 (which ain't chopped chicken liver).

Whatever...
[/size]

[FarmDad.01]

[size=1.35em]Lacrosse is a "major" sport, worth triple team points, as defined by Capital_One_Cup. But as WTF as this criterion may be, know that the credit-card award (which Stanford Women won its first two years) pays the winning school $200,000, per gender, to benefit "student-athletes."

Cardinal women won the first two - and via Women's Golf - just clinched the award for the fifth year.

Director's Cup, another nice crystal.

Capital One Cup, another $200,000 (which ain't chopped chicken liver).

Whatever...
[/size]

[yvonne]

The Director's Cup is awarded by the National Association of Collegiate Directors. It's a peer award like an Oscar for athletic directors. The Anybody But Stanford Cup is not given my any recognized association.

[yvonne]

The Director's Cup is awarded by the National Association of Collegiate Directors. It's a peer award like an Oscar for athletic directors. The Anybody But Stanford Cup is not given my any recognized association.

[terry]

[size=1.35em]Lacrosse is a "major" sport, worth triple team points, as defined by Capital_One_Cup. [/size]

Capital One is tied to ESPN, which promotes the Capital_One_Cup and sponsors the award show at which it is presented. ESPN is represented on Capital One's advisory board. ESPN shows college lacrosse. And what a surprise, Capital One's board has decided college lacrosse is a major sport. . . .

[terry]

[size=1.35em]Lacrosse is a "major" sport, worth triple team points, as defined by Capital_One_Cup. [/size]

Capital One is tied to ESPN, which promotes the Capital_One_Cup and sponsors the award show at which it is presented. ESPN is represented on Capital One's advisory board. ESPN shows college lacrosse. And what a surprise, Capital One's board has decided college lacrosse is a major sport. . . .

[Papa John]

OK, it looks like this topic was discussed before I arrived at the CARDboard. But here's my question: Why call it the Anybody but Stanford Cup when the Stanford women (will) have won it 3 out of 5 years?

[Papa John]

OK, it looks like this topic was discussed before I arrived at the CARDboard. But here's my question: Why call it the Anybody but Stanford Cup when the Stanford women (will) have won it 3 out of 5 years?

[yvonne]

because its purpose was to come up with a scheme under which Stanford wouldn't win it all the time?

[yvonne]

because its purpose was to come up with a scheme under which Stanford wouldn't win it all the time?

[Roberton3]

[quote author=FarmDad.01 link=topic=12180.msg119462#msg119462 date=1432867250]
[size=1.35em]Lacrosse is a "major" sport, worth triple team points, as defined by Capital_One_Cup. [/size]

Capital One is tied to ESPN, which promotes the Capital_One_Cup and sponsors the award show at which it is presented. ESPN is represented on Capital One's advisory board. ESPN shows college lacrosse. And what a surprise, Capital One's board has decided college lacrosse is a major sport. . . .
[/quote]

Capital One's headquarters are in Virginia, which is prime lacrosse territory.  My guess is that (or perhaps a key Capital One executive being a former lacrosse player or alum of a school with a strong lacrosse team -- which is correlated with having headquarters in lacrosse territory) had much more influence than whether ESPN shows lacrosse.

[Roberton3]

[quote author=FarmDad.01 link=topic=12180.msg119462#msg119462 date=1432867250]
[size=1.35em]Lacrosse is a "major" sport, worth triple team points, as defined by Capital_One_Cup. [/size]

Capital One is tied to ESPN, which promotes the Capital_One_Cup and sponsors the award show at which it is presented. ESPN is represented on Capital One's advisory board. ESPN shows college lacrosse. And what a surprise, Capital One's board has decided college lacrosse is a major sport. . . .
[/quote]

Capital One's headquarters are in Virginia, which is prime lacrosse territory.  My guess is that (or perhaps a key Capital One executive being a former lacrosse player or alum of a school with a strong lacrosse team -- which is correlated with having headquarters in lacrosse territory) had much more influence than whether ESPN shows lacrosse.

[Papa John]

because its purpose was to come up with a scheme under which Stanford wouldn't win it all the time?

Well said, Roberton 3.


Maybe it's a little of both: prop up lacrosse and, by the way, we can knock down Stanford a few pegs so the Cardinal won't win it every year. But that makes the women's COC victories even more notable, and that's not something to sweep under the rug.


As someone else mentioned, Capital One also will give Stanford $200k in graduate scholarship money for student-athletes, which will be money well spent.

[Papa John]

because its purpose was to come up with a scheme under which Stanford wouldn't win it all the time?

Well said, Roberton 3.


Maybe it's a little of both: prop up lacrosse and, by the way, we can knock down Stanford a few pegs so the Cardinal won't win it every year. But that makes the women's COC victories even more notable, and that's not something to sweep under the rug.


As someone else mentioned, Capital One also will give Stanford $200k in graduate scholarship money for student-athletes, which will be money well spent.

[fullmetal]

And well-earned! :)

[fullmetal]

And well-earned! :)

[Spiny_Norman]

My guess is that perhaps a key Capital One executive [is] a former lacrosse player or alum of a school with a strong lacrosse team.

Robertson3, I had the same thought.  But the founder and CEO of Capital One Richard Fairbank is a Stanford alum - undergrad and MBA.
https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/ri...work-phony

Maybe someone else in the executive suite loves lacrosse.

But it is an odd weighting when you look at participation.  Only 67 D1 men's lacrosse teams.  Only 103 D1 women's lacrosse teams.    Comparative participation in other sports - cross country (342W, 313M), golf (260W, 297M), swimming/diving (196W, 135M), tennis (319W, 261M), track (~320W, ~270M).  And yet lacrosse is triple weighted?

[Spiny_Norman]

My guess is that perhaps a key Capital One executive [is] a former lacrosse player or alum of a school with a strong lacrosse team.

Robertson3, I had the same thought.  But the founder and CEO of Capital One Richard Fairbank is a Stanford alum - undergrad and MBA.
https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/ri...work-phony

Maybe someone else in the executive suite loves lacrosse.

But it is an odd weighting when you look at participation.  Only 67 D1 men's lacrosse teams.  Only 103 D1 women's lacrosse teams.    Comparative participation in other sports - cross country (342W, 313M), golf (260W, 297M), swimming/diving (196W, 135M), tennis (319W, 261M), track (~320W, ~270M).  And yet lacrosse is triple weighted?

[terry]

it is an odd weighting when you look at participation.  Only 67 D1 men's lacrosse teams.  Only 103 D1 women's lacrosse teams.    Comparative participation in other sports - cross country (342W, 313M), golf (260W, 297M), swimming/diving (196W, 135M), tennis (319W, 261M), track (~320W, ~270M).  And yet lacrosse is triple weighted?

I'm telling you guys, follow the money. And ESPN has the money.

[terry]

it is an odd weighting when you look at participation.  Only 67 D1 men's lacrosse teams.  Only 103 D1 women's lacrosse teams.    Comparative participation in other sports - cross country (342W, 313M), golf (260W, 297M), swimming/diving (196W, 135M), tennis (319W, 261M), track (~320W, ~270M).  And yet lacrosse is triple weighted?

I'm telling you guys, follow the money. And ESPN has the money.

[Papa John]

I just stumbled upon this online comparison, albeit a couple of years old, of the Director's Cup versus the ABS Cup:


http://winthropintelligence.com/2013/04/...rison-and/

[Papa John]

I just stumbled upon this online comparison, albeit a couple of years old, of the Director's Cup versus the ABS Cup:


http://winthropintelligence.com/2013/04/...rison-and/

[97fan]

I doubt that Capital One's marketing execs have any particular animus toward Stanford. But if you worked in a corporation and were designing a competition, the main purpose of which was to advertise your company's products, you'd want a different winner each year. The first year that, say, Ohio State wins the award, that's a news story in Columbus, and free advertising for your company. The 16th consecutive year that Stanford wins, it barely registers as news. And it's even better to have separate awards for men's sports and women's sports - twice the free publicity.

[97fan]

I doubt that Capital One's marketing execs have any particular animus toward Stanford. But if you worked in a corporation and were designing a competition, the main purpose of which was to advertise your company's products, you'd want a different winner each year. The first year that, say, Ohio State wins the award, that's a news story in Columbus, and free advertising for your company. The 16th consecutive year that Stanford wins, it barely registers as news. And it's even better to have separate awards for men's sports and women's sports - twice the free publicity.

[Rally]

I doubt that Capital One's marketing execs have any particular animus toward Stanford. But if you worked in a corporation and were designing a competition, the main purpose of which was to advertise your company's products, you'd want a different winner each year. The first year that, say, Ohio State wins the award, that's a news story in Columbus, and free advertising for your company. The 16th consecutive year that Stanford wins, it barely registers as news. And it's even better to have separate awards for men's sports and women's sports - twice the free publicity.

I seriously doubt the local pub at the winners town matters a hill of beans to Cap1.  The ESPN show and in and through ESPN are all that matters.  Unless they are dumb enough to think most of the wealthy people in, say, Columbus, both of them, will pour their money into Cap1 because they gave the Buckeyes a cup.  Maybe, but . . . .

[Rally]

I doubt that Capital One's marketing execs have any particular animus toward Stanford. But if you worked in a corporation and were designing a competition, the main purpose of which was to advertise your company's products, you'd want a different winner each year. The first year that, say, Ohio State wins the award, that's a news story in Columbus, and free advertising for your company. The 16th consecutive year that Stanford wins, it barely registers as news. And it's even better to have separate awards for men's sports and women's sports - twice the free publicity.

I seriously doubt the local pub at the winners town matters a hill of beans to Cap1.  The ESPN show and in and through ESPN are all that matters.  Unless they are dumb enough to think most of the wealthy people in, say, Columbus, both of them, will pour their money into Cap1 because they gave the Buckeyes a cup.  Maybe, but . . . .

[Farm93]

BTW - The Stanford women might not win this year.  Just sayin'.
Florida was a very good softball team and a very good track program.  If they win either one, they zip right on over Stanford's total thanks to the triple score bonus.

The COC used to have three tiers (1X, 2X & 3X) and conveniently did not even count several sports (0X).  Those that remember that methodology knew the fix was in as most of the 0X sports were Pac-10 and Stanford strengths.  The fix was probably to make sure no one program, or conference, won all of the time.  Since Stanford is THAT one program and the Pac-10/12 is that one conference it likely appears that the fix was against Stanford.  I doubt they had a massive anti-Stanford agenda, but the company's desire to make sure there was a healthy mix of schools in the running through June makes it look that way to Stanford fans.

The lacrosse extra credit thing is a bit unbelievable, but it is their Cup.  Clearly someone with some level of authority loves Lacrosse.  ESPN televises a lot of sports, so that is a poor explanation.  Also the SEC is not particularly good at Lacrosse, so ESPN's investment in the SEC would have elevated women's gymnastics this year if ESPN really cared to maximize the thing as a promotional opportunity for their content.

FWIW the money the COC gives out IS chump change.  It is not even a rounding error in the promotional budget of Capital One and is a trivial amount of money for most programs at the top end of the standings.

[Farm93]

BTW - The Stanford women might not win this year.  Just sayin'.
Florida was a very good softball team and a very good track program.  If they win either one, they zip right on over Stanford's total thanks to the triple score bonus.

The COC used to have three tiers (1X, 2X & 3X) and conveniently did not even count several sports (0X).  Those that remember that methodology knew the fix was in as most of the 0X sports were Pac-10 and Stanford strengths.  The fix was probably to make sure no one program, or conference, won all of the time.  Since Stanford is THAT one program and the Pac-10/12 is that one conference it likely appears that the fix was against Stanford.  I doubt they had a massive anti-Stanford agenda, but the company's desire to make sure there was a healthy mix of schools in the running through June makes it look that way to Stanford fans.

The lacrosse extra credit thing is a bit unbelievable, but it is their Cup.  Clearly someone with some level of authority loves Lacrosse.  ESPN televises a lot of sports, so that is a poor explanation.  Also the SEC is not particularly good at Lacrosse, so ESPN's investment in the SEC would have elevated women's gymnastics this year if ESPN really cared to maximize the thing as a promotional opportunity for their content.

FWIW the money the COC gives out IS chump change.  It is not even a rounding error in the promotional budget of Capital One and is a trivial amount of money for most programs at the top end of the standings.

[BostonCard]

I would have thought that ESPN would give 10x points to women's basketball, so as to get their local team more pub.

BC

[BostonCard]

I would have thought that ESPN would give 10x points to women's basketball, so as to get their local team more pub.

BC

[dabigv13]

I would wager that lacrosse is in there because its a sport in ascendancy. A lot of middle school and high school parents are shifting their kids from football to lacrosse.

[dabigv13]

I would wager that lacrosse is in there because its a sport in ascendancy. A lot of middle school and high school parents are shifting their kids from football to lacrosse.