[Spiny_Norman]

Lot of changes announced today in both men's and women's college basketball.

http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/...anges-game
http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-wome...ng-four-10

The most significant changes include:
The women will play four 10 minute quarters rather than two 20 minute halves
The women can advance the ball to the front court following a TO in the final minute of the 4th quarter or OT periods (like they do in the NBA)
The men's shot clock drops to 30 seconds
Men's coaches cannot call a TO when the ball is live
Also for the men, the NCAA eliminated the five-second closely guarded rule while dribbling the ball and removed the prohibition on dunking in pregame warmups and at halftime

Lots more in the releases above.

[Spiny_Norman]

Lot of changes announced today in both men's and women's college basketball.

http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/...anges-game
http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-wome...ng-four-10

The most significant changes include:
The women will play four 10 minute quarters rather than two 20 minute halves
The women can advance the ball to the front court following a TO in the final minute of the 4th quarter or OT periods (like they do in the NBA)
The men's shot clock drops to 30 seconds
Men's coaches cannot call a TO when the ball is live
Also for the men, the NCAA eliminated the five-second closely guarded rule while dribbling the ball and removed the prohibition on dunking in pregame warmups and at halftime

Lots more in the releases above.

[81alum]

I don't think I am going to like the women's changes.

You will reach the bonus on the fifth foul, but the team fouls reset each quarter.  So there can be 8 fouls in two quarters that go unpunished rather than 6 in a half.

Then there is this: 

The panel approved a new rule that allows defenders to place a forearm or an open hand with a bend in the elbow on an offensive post player with the ball whose back is to the basket.

 
On the one hand, you could say that this is just acknowledging what goes on right now, but I see it as another step toward making the inside game more of a sumo wrestling match.  It almost sounds like what offensive linemen can do without holding.

There is one change I like:

In an effort to improve the overall fan experience, bands or amplified music may be played during any dead-ball situation during a women’s basketball game. Previously, rules allowed music to be played only during timeouts and intermission.

The Band can play more!

[81alum]

I don't think I am going to like the women's changes.

You will reach the bonus on the fifth foul, but the team fouls reset each quarter.  So there can be 8 fouls in two quarters that go unpunished rather than 6 in a half.

Then there is this: 

The panel approved a new rule that allows defenders to place a forearm or an open hand with a bend in the elbow on an offensive post player with the ball whose back is to the basket.

 
On the one hand, you could say that this is just acknowledging what goes on right now, but I see it as another step toward making the inside game more of a sumo wrestling match.  It almost sounds like what offensive linemen can do without holding.

There is one change I like:

In an effort to improve the overall fan experience, bands or amplified music may be played during any dead-ball situation during a women’s basketball game. Previously, rules allowed music to be played only during timeouts and intermission.

The Band can play more!

[winflop]

In an effort to improve the overall fan experience, bands or amplified music may be played during any dead-ball situation during a women’s basketball game. Previously, rules allowed music to be played only during timeouts and intermission.

The Band can play more!

At least at home games...

[winflop]

In an effort to improve the overall fan experience, bands or amplified music may be played during any dead-ball situation during a women’s basketball game. Previously, rules allowed music to be played only during timeouts and intermission.

The Band can play more!

At least at home games...

[Viking_Guy]

Nope, the limiting factor at this point isn't timeouts; it's the potential revenue stream of selling advertisements read over the PA.


It used to be, the band could anticipate timeouts being called, and be ready to play just as the whistle blew.  Now, there's an event manager stacking 3 or 4 15-second advertisements in each scheduled timeout, which means the band gets to play for about 30-45 seconds.  Called timeouts are a little better, but even there, the band is constrained by someone on a headset.  It's worse at women's basketball, where the PA announcer will only start to talk once the crowd has quieted nearly completely.


The quarter break is probably at least partially motivated as an interval to sell more advertising.  I'm betting there will be two scheduled timeouts per quarter, resulting in 10 per game, rather than the current 8.


VG

[Viking_Guy]

Nope, the limiting factor at this point isn't timeouts; it's the potential revenue stream of selling advertisements read over the PA.


It used to be, the band could anticipate timeouts being called, and be ready to play just as the whistle blew.  Now, there's an event manager stacking 3 or 4 15-second advertisements in each scheduled timeout, which means the band gets to play for about 30-45 seconds.  Called timeouts are a little better, but even there, the band is constrained by someone on a headset.  It's worse at women's basketball, where the PA announcer will only start to talk once the crowd has quieted nearly completely.


The quarter break is probably at least partially motivated as an interval to sell more advertising.  I'm betting there will be two scheduled timeouts per quarter, resulting in 10 per game, rather than the current 8.


VG

[BobK]

Oh oh Glenn.  Next year the Men will have a 30 second clock.  This is about the only thing I like

[BobK]

Oh oh Glenn.  Next year the Men will have a 30 second clock.  This is about the only thing I like

[Red State]

30 second clock only makes the game closer to the NBA...or more of an individual sport. It sucks. Look for more one-on-one and wild shot selections. I quit watching the NBA garbage around 30 years ago, it now looks like I'll be watching less college hoops.

[Red State]

30 second clock only makes the game closer to the NBA...or more of an individual sport. It sucks. Look for more one-on-one and wild shot selections. I quit watching the NBA garbage around 30 years ago, it now looks like I'll be watching less college hoops.

[SamAtoms1980]

I'll just point out that Stanford under Johnny Dawkins is 5-0 when playing with a 30-second shot clock.  Unlikely to be a meaningful stat of course, but.....

[SamAtoms1980]

I'll just point out that Stanford under Johnny Dawkins is 5-0 when playing with a 30-second shot clock.  Unlikely to be a meaningful stat of course, but.....

[jacketree]

Are five fewer seconds to dick around on the perimeter really going to change the game?  I don't see most teams pulling a Paul Westhead early '90s offense off the shelf because of that.  The NBA shot clock and moving to the front court on a timeout do make a big difference in their game.  Hope the Warriors can find their collective stoke, because I'd prefer not to see one LeBron iso after another with an occasional cut to the basket or wing three rewarded with a title.  It really is a make or miss league.

Quarters instead of halves shouldn't make a significant difference unless teams plan on using expendable goons just to hack for hacking's sake.

[jacketree]

Are five fewer seconds to dick around on the perimeter really going to change the game?  I don't see most teams pulling a Paul Westhead early '90s offense off the shelf because of that.  The NBA shot clock and moving to the front court on a timeout do make a big difference in their game.  Hope the Warriors can find their collective stoke, because I'd prefer not to see one LeBron iso after another with an occasional cut to the basket or wing three rewarded with a title.  It really is a make or miss league.

Quarters instead of halves shouldn't make a significant difference unless teams plan on using expendable goons just to hack for hacking's sake.

[fullmetal]

Goons is historically a great strategy against Stanford teams :(

[fullmetal]

Goons is historically a great strategy against Stanford teams :(

[MustardtheBallCarrier]

30 second clock only makes the game closer to the NBA...or more of an individual sport. It sucks. Look for more one-on-one and wild shot selections. I quit watching the NBA garbage around 30 years ago, it now looks like I'll be watching less college hoops.

Get off my lawn!  I strongly recommend you give the NBA another try.  With the switch to more pace and space offenses, record three point shooting, position-less players and more analytics driving tactics (iso plays are low efficiency, generally), the game is more of a team game than it has been in decades and the gap in quality of play and aesthetics between the NBA and college has never been greater, in my humble opinion. 

The men's college game has a serious problem and these rule changes are necessary (and probably don't go far enough).  The sport was painful to watch last season, with average scoring and pace numbers at record lows.  The 35-second clock is such an outlier compared to women's NCAA, FIBA and the NBA rules that changing it is a no-brainer and an obvious way to pick up the pace of the games.  For what it's worth, I'd also push out the three point line further to help space the floor, call the hand-checking on defense tighter and, most importantly, completely overhaul the charging rules (which now make it almost impossible to drive the ball to the basket). 

[MustardtheBallCarrier]

30 second clock only makes the game closer to the NBA...or more of an individual sport. It sucks. Look for more one-on-one and wild shot selections. I quit watching the NBA garbage around 30 years ago, it now looks like I'll be watching less college hoops.

Get off my lawn!  I strongly recommend you give the NBA another try.  With the switch to more pace and space offenses, record three point shooting, position-less players and more analytics driving tactics (iso plays are low efficiency, generally), the game is more of a team game than it has been in decades and the gap in quality of play and aesthetics between the NBA and college has never been greater, in my humble opinion. 

The men's college game has a serious problem and these rule changes are necessary (and probably don't go far enough).  The sport was painful to watch last season, with average scoring and pace numbers at record lows.  The 35-second clock is such an outlier compared to women's NCAA, FIBA and the NBA rules that changing it is a no-brainer and an obvious way to pick up the pace of the games.  For what it's worth, I'd also push out the three point line further to help space the floor, call the hand-checking on defense tighter and, most importantly, completely overhaul the charging rules (which now make it almost impossible to drive the ball to the basket). 

[BostonCard]

I didn't have any trouble watching college basketball last season. It's fine if you like the NBA better; watch it, and leave college basketball for fans of college basketball.

College basketball no... Stanford basketball OTOH...

BC

[BostonCard]

I didn't have any trouble watching college basketball last season. It's fine if you like the NBA better; watch it, and leave college basketball for fans of college basketball.

College basketball no... Stanford basketball OTOH...

BC

[burger]

Get off my lawn!  I strongly recommend you give the NBA another try.  With the switch to more pace and space offenses, record three point shooting, position-less players and more analytics driving tactics (iso plays are low efficiency, generally), the game is more of a team game than it has been in decades and the gap in quality of play and aesthetics between the NBA and college has never been greater, in my humble opinion. 

That's laughable.  Every time I catch an NBA game lately, I swear it will be my last one.  The star treatment from the refs, the phantom fouls, the 2 extra steps that are never called as traveling, the isolation plays where 8 guys stand around while 2 play, the total lack of effort on defense by many players, etc. etc.

The college game has plenty of problems, but at least those kids are putting in an effort on both ends of the court on every play.

[burger]

Get off my lawn!  I strongly recommend you give the NBA another try.  With the switch to more pace and space offenses, record three point shooting, position-less players and more analytics driving tactics (iso plays are low efficiency, generally), the game is more of a team game than it has been in decades and the gap in quality of play and aesthetics between the NBA and college has never been greater, in my humble opinion. 

That's laughable.  Every time I catch an NBA game lately, I swear it will be my last one.  The star treatment from the refs, the phantom fouls, the 2 extra steps that are never called as traveling, the isolation plays where 8 guys stand around while 2 play, the total lack of effort on defense by many players, etc. etc.

The college game has plenty of problems, but at least those kids are putting in an effort on both ends of the court on every play.

[MustardtheBallCarrier]

I didn't have any trouble watching college basketball last season. It's fine if you like the NBA better; watch it, and leave college basketball for fans of college basketball.

A little dismissive, no?  Being a fan of college basketball and being a fan of the NBA are not mutually exclusive.  Being a fan of college basketball and wanting the game to improve are not mutually exclusive.  Plenty of fans of college basketball, including a number of prominent college coaches and commentators, also agree that pace and scoring numbers that you have to go back to the 1940s and 1950s to find do not produce the best version of the sport, and thus the shot clock change.   

[MustardtheBallCarrier]

I didn't have any trouble watching college basketball last season. It's fine if you like the NBA better; watch it, and leave college basketball for fans of college basketball.

A little dismissive, no?  Being a fan of college basketball and being a fan of the NBA are not mutually exclusive.  Being a fan of college basketball and wanting the game to improve are not mutually exclusive.  Plenty of fans of college basketball, including a number of prominent college coaches and commentators, also agree that pace and scoring numbers that you have to go back to the 1940s and 1950s to find do not produce the best version of the sport, and thus the shot clock change.   

[MustardtheBallCarrier]

[quote author=MustardtheBallCarrier link=topic=12244.msg120351#msg120351 date=1433883658]
Get off my lawn!  I strongly recommend you give the NBA another try.  With the switch to more pace and space offenses, record three point shooting, position-less players and more analytics driving tactics (iso plays are low efficiency, generally), the game is more of a team game than it has been in decades and the gap in quality of play and aesthetics between the NBA and college has never been greater, in my humble opinion. 

That's laughable.  Every time I catch an NBA game lately, I swear it will be my last one.  The star treatment from the refs, the phantom fouls, the 2 extra steps that are never called as traveling, the isolation plays where 8 guys stand around while 2 play, the total lack of effort on defense by many players, etc. etc.

The college game has plenty of problems, but at least those kids are putting in an effort on both ends of the court on every play.
[/quote]

You have a very low bar for laughter.  You also have hit on every crotchety false narrative about pro basketball.  Nice job.

[MustardtheBallCarrier]

[quote author=MustardtheBallCarrier link=topic=12244.msg120351#msg120351 date=1433883658]
Get off my lawn!  I strongly recommend you give the NBA another try.  With the switch to more pace and space offenses, record three point shooting, position-less players and more analytics driving tactics (iso plays are low efficiency, generally), the game is more of a team game than it has been in decades and the gap in quality of play and aesthetics between the NBA and college has never been greater, in my humble opinion. 

That's laughable.  Every time I catch an NBA game lately, I swear it will be my last one.  The star treatment from the refs, the phantom fouls, the 2 extra steps that are never called as traveling, the isolation plays where 8 guys stand around while 2 play, the total lack of effort on defense by many players, etc. etc.

The college game has plenty of problems, but at least those kids are putting in an effort on both ends of the court on every play.
[/quote]

You have a very low bar for laughter.  You also have hit on every crotchety false narrative about pro basketball.  Nice job.

[BostonCard]

First, college basketball and the NBA are different, just as college football and the NFL are different.  Some may like the pro's better; others may like the college game better.  Variety is the spice of life.

Secondly, in my opinion (which you may be free to dispute), over the last decade or so, the NBA has improved, moving away from the one-on-one game and moving towards a more efficient and better executed game (for reasons that have been alluded to above, most notably the massive increase in analytics).  Also, I feel (again, you may dispute) that the college game has declined in quality.  That may be colored by the fact that Stanford has declined in quality, and the Pac-12 has declined in quality, but I think the decline is more general.

I think the 30 second clock strikes the right balance between allowing the offense time to set up and execute and find a good shot versus allowing the offense so much time that much of it is spent killing the clock by passing around the perimiter.  The NBA feels (to me at least) too rushed, almost more like a tennis match going back and forth than a basketball game.  The college game to date felt too grinding.  Hopefully 30 seconds strikes the right balance.

BC

[BostonCard]

First, college basketball and the NBA are different, just as college football and the NFL are different.  Some may like the pro's better; others may like the college game better.  Variety is the spice of life.

Secondly, in my opinion (which you may be free to dispute), over the last decade or so, the NBA has improved, moving away from the one-on-one game and moving towards a more efficient and better executed game (for reasons that have been alluded to above, most notably the massive increase in analytics).  Also, I feel (again, you may dispute) that the college game has declined in quality.  That may be colored by the fact that Stanford has declined in quality, and the Pac-12 has declined in quality, but I think the decline is more general.

I think the 30 second clock strikes the right balance between allowing the offense time to set up and execute and find a good shot versus allowing the offense so much time that much of it is spent killing the clock by passing around the perimiter.  The NBA feels (to me at least) too rushed, almost more like a tennis match going back and forth than a basketball game.  The college game to date felt too grinding.  Hopefully 30 seconds strikes the right balance.

BC

[MustardtheBallCarrier]

Let me also try to cut the head off of an example that I know is coming.  If you are watching the NBA finals, yes, Lebron is playing almost exclusively isolation, clear out half the floor, caveman basketball.  I assure you that this is because the Cavs have been riddled with injuries and have a roster that, outside of Lebron, has 3.5 healthy NBA-quality players.  In other words, they just don't have a better option to score.  In actuality, Lebron is an incredible playmaker and passer and plays the equivalent of a point power forward in Cleveland's best offensive lineups.

[MustardtheBallCarrier]

Let me also try to cut the head off of an example that I know is coming.  If you are watching the NBA finals, yes, Lebron is playing almost exclusively isolation, clear out half the floor, caveman basketball.  I assure you that this is because the Cavs have been riddled with injuries and have a roster that, outside of Lebron, has 3.5 healthy NBA-quality players.  In other words, they just don't have a better option to score.  In actuality, Lebron is an incredible playmaker and passer and plays the equivalent of a point power forward in Cleveland's best offensive lineups.

[washingtonismoney]

Well, the problem with college is that they have *too much time*. The coach micromanages the whole offense. Endless resets. No goals on any of the plays. Constant reliance on the three point shot as a bailout for the aimless offense the team is playing.

I question how much NBA people watch if they feel it offers less team play or offensive tactics. It's probably very little; the game has gotten very sophisticated, particularly as European styles gain influence.

[washingtonismoney]

Well, the problem with college is that they have *too much time*. The coach micromanages the whole offense. Endless resets. No goals on any of the plays. Constant reliance on the three point shot as a bailout for the aimless offense the team is playing.

I question how much NBA people watch if they feel it offers less team play or offensive tactics. It's probably very little; the game has gotten very sophisticated, particularly as European styles gain influence.

[CowboyIndian]

  You also have hit on every crotchety false narrative about pro basketball.  Nice job.

It may reflect crotchetiness but it's not false. I defy you to tell me what a foul is in the NBA....without knowing who got fouled and who did the fouling. And traveling? Why even have the rule?
OK...you like the NBA. You seem to be in a large group these days but as a longtime basketball player and fan, I find it unwatchable.

[CowboyIndian]

  You also have hit on every crotchety false narrative about pro basketball.  Nice job.

It may reflect crotchetiness but it's not false. I defy you to tell me what a foul is in the NBA....without knowing who got fouled and who did the fouling. And traveling? Why even have the rule?
OK...you like the NBA. You seem to be in a large group these days but as a longtime basketball player and fan, I find it unwatchable.

[BostonCard]

Yes, there is a point at which there is too little time to get a play to set up a good look.  I don't think that we are there yet.  There is too much passing around the perimiter with little purpose other than killing time.  I agree it won't make a brobdingnagian difference, but I think it's an improvement.

BC

[BostonCard]

Yes, there is a point at which there is too little time to get a play to set up a good look.  I don't think that we are there yet.  There is too much passing around the perimiter with little purpose other than killing time.  I agree it won't make a brobdingnagian difference, but I think it's an improvement.

BC

[Red State]

A 30 second clock combined with the zone defenses that are allowed in college ball is going to make it difficult to run a lot of good stuff out of the half court set...but perhaps that's the idea behind the rule change. I would look for a lot of teams to eschew running plays and motion offenses and just play the type of Barnum and Bailey offense seen in the NBA.

[Red State]

A 30 second clock combined with the zone defenses that are allowed in college ball is going to make it difficult to run a lot of good stuff out of the half court set...but perhaps that's the idea behind the rule change. I would look for a lot of teams to eschew running plays and motion offenses and just play the type of Barnum and Bailey offense seen in the NBA.