[Bruce Wang]

http://www.businessinsider.com/virginia-...oax-2015-6

I wonder whatever happened to our favorite hoaxer.

[Bruce Wang]

http://www.businessinsider.com/virginia-...oax-2015-6

I wonder whatever happened to our favorite hoaxer.

[French Rage]

Knew it was my high school before I even clicked on the link.

[French Rage]

Knew it was my high school before I even clicked on the link.

[Hank 91]

It kind of reminds of the deal Hades struck with Zeus to keep Persephone for six months out of the year.

[Hank 91]

It kind of reminds of the deal Hades struck with Zeus to keep Persephone for six months out of the year.

[yvonne]

I'm surprised that it had any legs. It's about as believable as George Glass.

[yvonne]

I'm surprised that it had any legs. It's about as believable as George Glass.

[SUBuddha]

It kind of reminds of the deal Hades struck with Zeus to keep Persephone for six months out of the year.

Given that my daughter is named Persephone, I have told this tale to her many times.

[SUBuddha]

It kind of reminds of the deal Hades struck with Zeus to keep Persephone for six months out of the year.

Given that my daughter is named Persephone, I have told this tale to her many times.

[fullmetal]

I'm surprised that it had any legs. It's about as believable as George Glass.

Certain populations who idolize education will believe nearly anything in order to set the bar higher and higher.  There may be a nationalistic bent to the press given this story as it blew up big outside of America.

But a fellow alum and I were talking about this last night--who could ever believe that a prospective freshman would have professors battling it out to bring that student to their university?  Certainly from my experience, most high-powered professors couldn't be bothered with matriculated students, much less prospective freshmen...!

[fullmetal]

I'm surprised that it had any legs. It's about as believable as George Glass.

Certain populations who idolize education will believe nearly anything in order to set the bar higher and higher.  There may be a nationalistic bent to the press given this story as it blew up big outside of America.

But a fellow alum and I were talking about this last night--who could ever believe that a prospective freshman would have professors battling it out to bring that student to their university?  Certainly from my experience, most high-powered professors couldn't be bothered with matriculated students, much less prospective freshmen...!

[Roberton3]

Knew it was my high school before I even clicked on the link.

Evidently you and I went to the same high school.  (BTW, the school also makes an appearance in another Cardboard thread: http://thecardboard.org/board/index.php?topic=11732.  Neither one is a particularly positive story.)

A nice response to this latest story is at http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/21/pf/colle...index.html (written by a high school friend of my sister).

[Roberton3]

Knew it was my high school before I even clicked on the link.

Evidently you and I went to the same high school.  (BTW, the school also makes an appearance in another Cardboard thread: http://thecardboard.org/board/index.php?topic=11732.  Neither one is a particularly positive story.)

A nice response to this latest story is at http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/21/pf/colle...index.html (written by a high school friend of my sister).

[CTcard]

A nice response to this latest story is at http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/21/pf/colle...index.html (written by a high school friend of my sister).

A nice response.

I do wonder a bit about one part of the logic put forth by the founder of the "How to TJ" Google form.
' "The idea that 'you'll be fine no matter where you end up in college' is often thrown around by administrators and teachers," Young told me. "But I think it holds much more power when told by people who have been through the process in similar scenarios to current TJ students." '

True enough, but it also might hold less power when the message is told to you by someone who just finished his first year at Stanford.
Of course that is an issue for most of us here as well.

[CTcard]

A nice response to this latest story is at http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/21/pf/colle...index.html (written by a high school friend of my sister).

A nice response.

I do wonder a bit about one part of the logic put forth by the founder of the "How to TJ" Google form.
' "The idea that 'you'll be fine no matter where you end up in college' is often thrown around by administrators and teachers," Young told me. "But I think it holds much more power when told by people who have been through the process in similar scenarios to current TJ students." '

True enough, but it also might hold less power when the message is told to you by someone who just finished his first year at Stanford.
Of course that is an issue for most of us here as well.

[stupac2]

Of course that is an issue for most of us here as well.

I suppose, but one thing that stories can help is that what matters isn't so much the education you get (though that's obviously important), but the connections you make. I got my job because my adviser happened to be partnering with a nearby company to test their instrument, now I work for that company (and while Stanford may have more emphasis than most universities on undergrad research, I don't think it's so much different for physics, so that's the sort of thing that can happen at many places).

My brother (who went to William & Mary) demonstrates that even more. He was sort of aimless after college, and he called me up to see if I knew anyone who worked at a marketing firm. By coincidence I did and they had a position open that my brother was a fit for and he got it. He then made a ton of friends there, and when one of them split off his own company, my brother went with him. He was employee #7 (or something) and is now managing their marketing dept (or something). Going to a relatively prestigious school didn't really matter so much (except insofar as he needed some kind of degree).

Anyway, I think the high-achieving students these days place way more emphasis on getting into the best schools than is appropriate, especially given the fact that it's really no ticket to long-term success, where what matters is mostly luck, hard work, networking, and more luck. Maybe if you really, really want to be a professor then it matters, but even then I kinda doubt it.

[stupac2]

Of course that is an issue for most of us here as well.

I suppose, but one thing that stories can help is that what matters isn't so much the education you get (though that's obviously important), but the connections you make. I got my job because my adviser happened to be partnering with a nearby company to test their instrument, now I work for that company (and while Stanford may have more emphasis than most universities on undergrad research, I don't think it's so much different for physics, so that's the sort of thing that can happen at many places).

My brother (who went to William & Mary) demonstrates that even more. He was sort of aimless after college, and he called me up to see if I knew anyone who worked at a marketing firm. By coincidence I did and they had a position open that my brother was a fit for and he got it. He then made a ton of friends there, and when one of them split off his own company, my brother went with him. He was employee #7 (or something) and is now managing their marketing dept (or something). Going to a relatively prestigious school didn't really matter so much (except insofar as he needed some kind of degree).

Anyway, I think the high-achieving students these days place way more emphasis on getting into the best schools than is appropriate, especially given the fact that it's really no ticket to long-term success, where what matters is mostly luck, hard work, networking, and more luck. Maybe if you really, really want to be a professor then it matters, but even then I kinda doubt it.

[French Rage]

[quote author=French Rage link=topic=12288.msg121038#msg121038 date=1434865634]
Knew it was my high school before I even clicked on the link.

Evidently you and I went to the same high school.  (BTW, the school also makes an appearance in another Cardboard thread: http://thecardboard.org/board/index.php?topic=11732.  Neither one is a particularly positive story.)

A nice response to this latest story is at http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/21/pf/colle...index.html (written by a high school friend of my sister).
[/quote]

It doesn't feel like it was that crazy when I was there (class of 2000).  But maybe it also comes down to family pressure.  Don't get me wrong, my parents wanted me to make the best of my situation, but there never any specific expectations as far as colleges went.  All these years later, though, the whole process is a blur.  You write a bunch of essays and compile recommendations and spend a few months doing all of those things, and then at the end you get your results, but in the meantime honestly it's hard to get a feel for whether you're doing it right or not.  It's worth it when it's all over, but the whole idea of these pieces of paper you send in having such a big influence on your future is a little much for a 17 year old when you think about it.

That said, as others have explained much better, what you put into your college experience is much more important than where you do it.  You can get into Harvard or Stanford and half-ass it and maybe eek out a degree, but the degree may be worthless if you didn't learn anything along the way.  Or you could get into brobdingnagian-large-state-school, spend your time taking the best classes you can, doing research, and really get to know your professors and other people who will matter in your career, and can come out of it in a great position.  Now maybe going to the former rather than the latter has more opportunities, yes, but you still have to be smart enough to take them.

Plus, these days, I would say it matters almost as much if not more where you went to grad school than undergrad.  Depending on your profession, you may have had much more of a chance to focus on the classes that matter in grad school, as undergrad has all of its liberal arts or distribution electives that, while useful in the long run, may focus less on what you'll be doing once you enter the workforce.  So even if you don't get into your dream school for undergrad, by making the most of your undergrad years you can be in a much better position when entering grad school; and really, doesn't where you get in when your four years wiser and have had four years to show yourself under more significant circumstances say a little more about you?

Also, no surprise story was originally reports by WaPo.  Not a bad TJ story in existence that WaPo can't wait to get on top of.

[French Rage]

[quote author=French Rage link=topic=12288.msg121038#msg121038 date=1434865634]
Knew it was my high school before I even clicked on the link.

Evidently you and I went to the same high school.  (BTW, the school also makes an appearance in another Cardboard thread: http://thecardboard.org/board/index.php?topic=11732.  Neither one is a particularly positive story.)

A nice response to this latest story is at http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/21/pf/colle...index.html (written by a high school friend of my sister).
[/quote]

It doesn't feel like it was that crazy when I was there (class of 2000).  But maybe it also comes down to family pressure.  Don't get me wrong, my parents wanted me to make the best of my situation, but there never any specific expectations as far as colleges went.  All these years later, though, the whole process is a blur.  You write a bunch of essays and compile recommendations and spend a few months doing all of those things, and then at the end you get your results, but in the meantime honestly it's hard to get a feel for whether you're doing it right or not.  It's worth it when it's all over, but the whole idea of these pieces of paper you send in having such a big influence on your future is a little much for a 17 year old when you think about it.

That said, as others have explained much better, what you put into your college experience is much more important than where you do it.  You can get into Harvard or Stanford and half-ass it and maybe eek out a degree, but the degree may be worthless if you didn't learn anything along the way.  Or you could get into brobdingnagian-large-state-school, spend your time taking the best classes you can, doing research, and really get to know your professors and other people who will matter in your career, and can come out of it in a great position.  Now maybe going to the former rather than the latter has more opportunities, yes, but you still have to be smart enough to take them.

Plus, these days, I would say it matters almost as much if not more where you went to grad school than undergrad.  Depending on your profession, you may have had much more of a chance to focus on the classes that matter in grad school, as undergrad has all of its liberal arts or distribution electives that, while useful in the long run, may focus less on what you'll be doing once you enter the workforce.  So even if you don't get into your dream school for undergrad, by making the most of your undergrad years you can be in a much better position when entering grad school; and really, doesn't where you get in when your four years wiser and have had four years to show yourself under more significant circumstances say a little more about you?

Also, no surprise story was originally reports by WaPo.  Not a bad TJ story in existence that WaPo can't wait to get on top of.

[Roberton3]

[quote author=Roberton3 link=topic=12288.msg121178#msg121178 date=1435076981]
A nice response to this latest story is at http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/21/pf/colle...index.html (written by a high school friend of my sister).

A nice response.

I do wonder a bit about one part of the logic put forth by the founder of the "How to TJ" Google form.
' "The idea that 'you'll be fine no matter where you end up in college' is often thrown around by administrators and teachers," Young told me. "But I think it holds much more power when told by people who have been through the process in similar scenarios to current TJ students." '

True enough, but it also might hold less power when the message is told to you by someone who just finished his first year at Stanford.
Of course that is an issue for most of us here as well.
[/quote]

Yes and no.  Someone who went to Stanford can't be as convincing when he/she says that you'll be fine if you don't go to Stanford.  But he/she can convincingly say that going to Stanford isn't an automatic ticket to a perfect life (which is what some high school students seem to think).  To get the high-schoolers to relax a bit, they need to hear both messages.

[Roberton3]

[quote author=Roberton3 link=topic=12288.msg121178#msg121178 date=1435076981]
A nice response to this latest story is at http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/21/pf/colle...index.html (written by a high school friend of my sister).

A nice response.

I do wonder a bit about one part of the logic put forth by the founder of the "How to TJ" Google form.
' "The idea that 'you'll be fine no matter where you end up in college' is often thrown around by administrators and teachers," Young told me. "But I think it holds much more power when told by people who have been through the process in similar scenarios to current TJ students." '

True enough, but it also might hold less power when the message is told to you by someone who just finished his first year at Stanford.
Of course that is an issue for most of us here as well.
[/quote]

Yes and no.  Someone who went to Stanford can't be as convincing when he/she says that you'll be fine if you don't go to Stanford.  But he/she can convincingly say that going to Stanford isn't an automatic ticket to a perfect life (which is what some high school students seem to think).  To get the high-schoolers to relax a bit, they need to hear both messages.

[Roberton3]

It doesn't feel like it was that crazy when I was there (class of 2000). 

I was there a decade earlier, when the school was brand-new, and things were very different then.  The school was an unknown because it was new, so students who went there were really taking a risk.  That made it a very different place than it became once it got a reputation as "the #1 high school in the country."  In some ways it got better, and in some ways worse, but it was very different. 

And even beyond that high school, the whole approach to college applications was very different.  I applied to five colleges, which was pretty typical back then.  That would seem like a tiny number to today's high school students, even if they're not in a ridiculously competitive high school.

Back to TJ, though, I think the changes there over the last decade or so (well after either you or I graduated) have been unambiguously bad.  The principal has pushed to make the school focus even more on science and math, to the detriment of everything else.  There's less focus on having students who can write and communicate well.  There's less focus on having a healthy male/female balance or any racial diversity.  And there's been a push to cut back on practice time for sports, which has really hurt the school's athletic teams.  Overall, the school and its students are much less well-balanced than they were a decade ago, which is bad in many ways, one of which is that it worsens the hyper-competitive aspects.  The school seems to be trying to be a high-school version of CalTech, when it used to be (and I think it should be) much more like a high school version of Stanford.

[Roberton3]

It doesn't feel like it was that crazy when I was there (class of 2000). 

I was there a decade earlier, when the school was brand-new, and things were very different then.  The school was an unknown because it was new, so students who went there were really taking a risk.  That made it a very different place than it became once it got a reputation as "the #1 high school in the country."  In some ways it got better, and in some ways worse, but it was very different. 

And even beyond that high school, the whole approach to college applications was very different.  I applied to five colleges, which was pretty typical back then.  That would seem like a tiny number to today's high school students, even if they're not in a ridiculously competitive high school.

Back to TJ, though, I think the changes there over the last decade or so (well after either you or I graduated) have been unambiguously bad.  The principal has pushed to make the school focus even more on science and math, to the detriment of everything else.  There's less focus on having students who can write and communicate well.  There's less focus on having a healthy male/female balance or any racial diversity.  And there's been a push to cut back on practice time for sports, which has really hurt the school's athletic teams.  Overall, the school and its students are much less well-balanced than they were a decade ago, which is bad in many ways, one of which is that it worsens the hyper-competitive aspects.  The school seems to be trying to be a high-school version of CalTech, when it used to be (and I think it should be) much more like a high school version of Stanford.

[Hank 91]

[quote author=Hank 91 link=topic=12288.msg121150#msg121150 date=1435038085]
It kind of reminds of the deal Hades struck with Zeus to keep Persephone for six months out of the year.

Given that my daughter is named Persephone, I have told this tale to her many times.
[/quote]
That's all kinds of awesome. I remember there was a girl in my high school named Athena, perhaps the most appropriately named person in history. She was one of the smartest girls in her class and stunningly beautiful. More people should have the courage to name their children after mythical figures. The world would be a more interesting place.

[Hank 91]

[quote author=Hank 91 link=topic=12288.msg121150#msg121150 date=1435038085]
It kind of reminds of the deal Hades struck with Zeus to keep Persephone for six months out of the year.

Given that my daughter is named Persephone, I have told this tale to her many times.
[/quote]
That's all kinds of awesome. I remember there was a girl in my high school named Athena, perhaps the most appropriately named person in history. She was one of the smartest girls in her class and stunningly beautiful. More people should have the courage to name their children after mythical figures. The world would be a more interesting place.

[SUBuddha]

Hank,

It is funny to hear my 4 year old pronounce the dogs names especially.....They are Cerberus and Andromeda.

[SUBuddha]

Hank,

It is funny to hear my 4 year old pronounce the dogs names especially.....They are Cerberus and Andromeda.

[Leftcoast]

I had friends who named their daughter "Cassandra".  When I asked if they knew the mythological background and retold part of her story I got frosty stares and left the finale untold.  Not every Greek name background is a good one!

[Leftcoast]

I had friends who named their daughter "Cassandra".  When I asked if they knew the mythological background and retold part of her story I got frosty stares and left the finale untold.  Not every Greek name background is a good one!

[SUBuddha]

Lefty-

I am the Hades side of the family and my wife is the Demeter side so it fit. Had I not committed to naming my first born son after my brother he may well have ended up with a mythical name, though I may have gone Egyptian or Norse for a male name.

[SUBuddha]

Lefty-

I am the Hades side of the family and my wife is the Demeter side so it fit. Had I not committed to naming my first born son after my brother he may well have ended up with a mythical name, though I may have gone Egyptian or Norse for a male name.

[CornFed]

My brother and his wife have had a couple of dogs over the years, a Great Dane and a Rhodesian Ridgeback, that were both named Kato.

[CornFed]

My brother and his wife have had a couple of dogs over the years, a Great Dane and a Rhodesian Ridgeback, that were both named Kato.

[Bruce Wang]

My brother-in-law bestowed the name Argos (Odysseus's dog) on my dog-nephew/brother (first rescued by my sister then dumped on my parents when she gave birth).  What's perfect is that Argos sounds like "The Dog" in Chinese.

[Bruce Wang]

My brother-in-law bestowed the name Argos (Odysseus's dog) on my dog-nephew/brother (first rescued by my sister then dumped on my parents when she gave birth).  What's perfect is that Argos sounds like "The Dog" in Chinese.