12-01-2018, 01:25 PM
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How Larry Scott and Pac12 lose ground in football arms race
How Larry Scott and Pac12 lose ground in football arms race
(12-01-2018, 01:25 PM)stupac2 Wrote:(12-01-2018, 12:08 PM)oldalum Wrote:Quote:End the SoCal/NorCal Lock Games
That's a nonstarter for us because of recruiting in SoCal, in addition to the alumni fan base there.
Not if you make sensible N/S divisions. We're south of both Colorado and Utah.
Colorado and Utah were guaranteed the South division in order to get them to join the Pac-12.
How do propose prying that perk away from them?
(12-01-2018, 01:25 PM)stupac2 Wrote:(12-01-2018, 12:08 PM)oldalum Wrote:Quote:End the SoCal/NorCal Lock Games
That's a nonstarter for us because of recruiting in SoCal, in addition to the alumni fan base there.
Not if you make sensible N/S divisions. We're south of both Colorado and Utah.
Colorado and Utah were guaranteed the South division in order to get them to join the Pac-12.
How do propose prying that perk away from them?
(12-01-2018, 01:25 PM)stupac2 Wrote:(12-01-2018, 12:08 PM)oldalum Wrote:Quote:End the SoCal/NorCal Lock Games
That's a nonstarter for us because of recruiting in SoCal, in addition to the alumni fan base there.
Not if you make sensible N/S divisions. We're south of both Colorado and Utah.
Colorado and Utah were guaranteed the South division in order to get them to join the Pac-12.
How do propose prying that perk away from them?
(12-01-2018, 01:25 PM)stupac2 Wrote:(12-01-2018, 12:08 PM)oldalum Wrote:Quote:End the SoCal/NorCal Lock Games
That's a nonstarter for us because of recruiting in SoCal, in addition to the alumni fan base there.
Not if you make sensible N/S divisions. We're south of both Colorado and Utah.
Colorado and Utah were guaranteed the South division in order to get them to join the Pac-12.
How do propose prying that perk away from them?
12-01-2018, 09:10 PM
The only difference the league could have possible done was place all 4 California Schools together with the Arizona schools as the South Division. However, the Washington and Oregon schools objected to that....they wanted at least some of the schools (Stanford/Cal) to be in the North Division. In either event, the California schools will always be tied together (playing-wise) in one form or another.
The only difference the league could have possible done was place all 4 California Schools together with the Arizona schools as the South Division. However, the Washington and Oregon schools objected to that....they wanted at least some of the schools (Stanford/Cal) to be in the North Division. In either event, the California schools will always be tied together (playing-wise) in one form or another.
12-02-2018, 09:04 AM
(12-01-2018, 02:42 PM)chrisk Wrote: Colorado and Utah were guaranteed the South division in order to get them to join the Pac-12.
How do propose prying that perk away from them?
By just doing it? What are they going to do, go back to the MW/Big 12?
Also, that's the first I've heard of that offer, and it seems very dumb to have agreed to in any case.
(12-01-2018, 02:42 PM)chrisk Wrote: Colorado and Utah were guaranteed the South division in order to get them to join the Pac-12.
How do propose prying that perk away from them?
By just doing it? What are they going to do, go back to the MW/Big 12?
Also, that's the first I've heard of that offer, and it seems very dumb to have agreed to in any case.
12-02-2018, 09:14 AM
“We don’t have enough time for me to go through all the mischaracterizations,” Scott said. “… We go through a very rigorous process internally with our members, athletics directors, university CFOs, our presidents and chancellors. We have an audit and finance committee that regularly reviews our expenses, compared to other conferences, vis-a-vis conference operations. Separately we look at the costs of running a TV network, and compare that to information and data that we have with peers that run TV networks.
“What I can say with absolute confidence is: Not only are we comparable with other conferences, in terms of conference operations, but we’re very, very efficient. What we do for the amount of expense to run the TV network compared to peers is admirable.”
That’s Scott’s defense of the numbers. He says it’s impossible to compare the Pac-12 with the other power conferences, because the Pac-12 is also a media entity in running a TV network.
Uh oh, the Pac-12 Network, which still isn’t distributed by DirecTV, was dropped this week by AT&T’s U-Verse services. That leaves the Pac-12 Network’s reach at an estimated 17.5 million homes.
https://www.sfgate.com/collegesports/art...1aadc2f410
“What I can say with absolute confidence is: Not only are we comparable with other conferences, in terms of conference operations, but we’re very, very efficient. What we do for the amount of expense to run the TV network compared to peers is admirable.”
That’s Scott’s defense of the numbers. He says it’s impossible to compare the Pac-12 with the other power conferences, because the Pac-12 is also a media entity in running a TV network.
Uh oh, the Pac-12 Network, which still isn’t distributed by DirecTV, was dropped this week by AT&T’s U-Verse services. That leaves the Pac-12 Network’s reach at an estimated 17.5 million homes.
https://www.sfgate.com/collegesports/art...1aadc2f410
Eric
"the older we get the better we were"
“We don’t have enough time for me to go through all the mischaracterizations,” Scott said. “… We go through a very rigorous process internally with our members, athletics directors, university CFOs, our presidents and chancellors. We have an audit and finance committee that regularly reviews our expenses, compared to other conferences, vis-a-vis conference operations. Separately we look at the costs of running a TV network, and compare that to information and data that we have with peers that run TV networks.
“What I can say with absolute confidence is: Not only are we comparable with other conferences, in terms of conference operations, but we’re very, very efficient. What we do for the amount of expense to run the TV network compared to peers is admirable.”
That’s Scott’s defense of the numbers. He says it’s impossible to compare the Pac-12 with the other power conferences, because the Pac-12 is also a media entity in running a TV network.
Uh oh, the Pac-12 Network, which still isn’t distributed by DirecTV, was dropped this week by AT&T’s U-Verse services. That leaves the Pac-12 Network’s reach at an estimated 17.5 million homes.
https://www.sfgate.com/collegesports/art...1aadc2f410
“What I can say with absolute confidence is: Not only are we comparable with other conferences, in terms of conference operations, but we’re very, very efficient. What we do for the amount of expense to run the TV network compared to peers is admirable.”
That’s Scott’s defense of the numbers. He says it’s impossible to compare the Pac-12 with the other power conferences, because the Pac-12 is also a media entity in running a TV network.
Uh oh, the Pac-12 Network, which still isn’t distributed by DirecTV, was dropped this week by AT&T’s U-Verse services. That leaves the Pac-12 Network’s reach at an estimated 17.5 million homes.
https://www.sfgate.com/collegesports/art...1aadc2f410
Eric
"the older we get the better we were"
12-12-2018, 12:39 PM
Just when it seemed public pressure on Pac-12 commissioner Larry Scott couldn’t get more intense, along come voices from his past to add context and stoke embers.
Three former Pac-12 athletic directors, Chris Hill (Utah), Bill Moos (Washington State) and Greg Byrne (Arizona), have gone public recently with comments critical of Scott’s lifestyle and leadership style.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/12/11/w...hotline-nl
Three former Pac-12 athletic directors, Chris Hill (Utah), Bill Moos (Washington State) and Greg Byrne (Arizona), have gone public recently with comments critical of Scott’s lifestyle and leadership style.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/12/11/w...hotline-nl
Eric
"the older we get the better we were"
Just when it seemed public pressure on Pac-12 commissioner Larry Scott couldn’t get more intense, along come voices from his past to add context and stoke embers.
Three former Pac-12 athletic directors, Chris Hill (Utah), Bill Moos (Washington State) and Greg Byrne (Arizona), have gone public recently with comments critical of Scott’s lifestyle and leadership style.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/12/11/w...hotline-nl
Three former Pac-12 athletic directors, Chris Hill (Utah), Bill Moos (Washington State) and Greg Byrne (Arizona), have gone public recently with comments critical of Scott’s lifestyle and leadership style.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/12/11/w...hotline-nl
Eric
"the older we get the better we were"
01-01-2019, 01:51 PM
from the NY Times
As the Rose Bowl Arrives, the Pac-12 Struggles to Keep Up
Underperforming media deals have left the conference falling behind its peers off the field. That might be the root of its problems on it.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/01/sport...pac12.html
As the Rose Bowl Arrives, the Pac-12 Struggles to Keep Up
Underperforming media deals have left the conference falling behind its peers off the field. That might be the root of its problems on it.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/01/sport...pac12.html
Eric
"the older we get the better we were"
from the NY Times
As the Rose Bowl Arrives, the Pac-12 Struggles to Keep Up
Underperforming media deals have left the conference falling behind its peers off the field. That might be the root of its problems on it.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/01/sport...pac12.html
As the Rose Bowl Arrives, the Pac-12 Struggles to Keep Up
Underperforming media deals have left the conference falling behind its peers off the field. That might be the root of its problems on it.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/01/sport...pac12.html
Eric
"the older we get the better we were"
01-02-2019, 12:23 PM
The Pac-12 Conference has hired one of the world’s top public relations and crisis management agencies.
Its mission?
Fixing the conference’s broken brand.
The repair is necessary, but what the conference members need most to compete is additional revenue. The brand isn’t broken because of public perception. It’s busted because of results.
https://www.oregonlive.com/sports/2019/0...brand.html
Its mission?
Fixing the conference’s broken brand.
The repair is necessary, but what the conference members need most to compete is additional revenue. The brand isn’t broken because of public perception. It’s busted because of results.
https://www.oregonlive.com/sports/2019/0...brand.html
Eric
"the older we get the better we were"
The Pac-12 Conference has hired one of the world’s top public relations and crisis management agencies.
Its mission?
Fixing the conference’s broken brand.
The repair is necessary, but what the conference members need most to compete is additional revenue. The brand isn’t broken because of public perception. It’s busted because of results.
https://www.oregonlive.com/sports/2019/0...brand.html
Its mission?
Fixing the conference’s broken brand.
The repair is necessary, but what the conference members need most to compete is additional revenue. The brand isn’t broken because of public perception. It’s busted because of results.
https://www.oregonlive.com/sports/2019/0...brand.html
Eric
"the older we get the better we were"
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2019, 01:50 PM by Beeg_Dawg.)
"The brand isn’t broken because of public perception. It’s busted because of results."
What? Isn't the bottom line the same? How is rebranding and more money going to improve on the field/court results?
What? Isn't the bottom line the same? How is rebranding and more money going to improve on the field/court results?
01-02-2019, 03:34 PM
(01-02-2019, 01:45 PM)Beeg_Dawg Wrote: "The brand isn’t broken because of public perception. It’s busted because of results."
What? Isn't the bottom line the same? How is rebranding and more money going to improve on the field/court results?
I think the point is that this isn't the case where the conference teams are playing super well, but because of perception, the conventional wisdom is wrongly that the conference is in trouble; this is the case that the public perception mirrors poor on-field results.
For the former, bringing in a crisis management consultant makes sense; for the latter, the solution is to fix the on-field results, which is something that a public relations firm can't fix.
BC
(01-02-2019, 01:45 PM)Beeg_Dawg Wrote: "The brand isn’t broken because of public perception. It’s busted because of results."
What? Isn't the bottom line the same? How is rebranding and more money going to improve on the field/court results?
I think the point is that this isn't the case where the conference teams are playing super well, but because of perception, the conventional wisdom is wrongly that the conference is in trouble; this is the case that the public perception mirrors poor on-field results.
For the former, bringing in a crisis management consultant makes sense; for the latter, the solution is to fix the on-field results, which is something that a public relations firm can't fix.
BC
01-02-2019, 04:07 PM
Isn't the problem right now both of those things? "Fire Larry Scott" and "Pac-12 refs" have become memes on /r/cfb. I kinda doubt the Pac-12 mothership is unaware of this.
(01-02-2019, 04:07 PM)stupac2 Wrote: Isn't the problem right now both of those things? "Fire Larry Scott" and "Pac-12 refs" have become memes on /r/cfb. I kinda doubt the Pac-12 mothership is unaware of this.
It looks like the "Pac-12 mothership" consists of Larry Scott and maybe a couple of key university presidents/chancellors. That cabal is not going to fire itself. And it probably doesn't even know what Reddit is.
How clueless are they? Look no further than their granting Scott the keys to the treasury to camp out in a San Francisco highrise, travel like a Saudi prince, all based on the TV money that they somehow think is significant simply because it's more than they were making before he came.
Unaware, yes -- but bamboozled is probably a better word. And they're trying to sell equity in this thing? Sheesh.
(01-02-2019, 04:07 PM)stupac2 Wrote: Isn't the problem right now both of those things? "Fire Larry Scott" and "Pac-12 refs" have become memes on /r/cfb. I kinda doubt the Pac-12 mothership is unaware of this.
It looks like the "Pac-12 mothership" consists of Larry Scott and maybe a couple of key university presidents/chancellors. That cabal is not going to fire itself. And it probably doesn't even know what Reddit is.
How clueless are they? Look no further than their granting Scott the keys to the treasury to camp out in a San Francisco highrise, travel like a Saudi prince, all based on the TV money that they somehow think is significant simply because it's more than they were making before he came.
Unaware, yes -- but bamboozled is probably a better word. And they're trying to sell equity in this thing? Sheesh.
01-03-2019, 09:27 AM
(01-03-2019, 12:42 AM)qwerty49 Wrote:(01-02-2019, 04:07 PM)stupac2 Wrote: Isn't the problem right now both of those things? "Fire Larry Scott" and "Pac-12 refs" have become memes on /r/cfb. I kinda doubt the Pac-12 mothership is unaware of this.
It looks like the "Pac-12 mothership" consists of Larry Scott and maybe a couple of key university presidents/chancellors. That cabal is not going to fire itself. And it probably doesn't even know what Reddit is.
How clueless are they? Look no further than their granting Scott the keys to the treasury to camp out in a San Francisco highrise, travel like a Saudi prince, all based on the TV money that they somehow think is significant simply because it's more than they were making before he came.
Unaware, yes -- but bamboozled is probably a better word. And they're trying to sell equity in this thing? Sheesh.
...Do you honestly think the Pac-12 pays no attention to the way casual fans feel about them? There's zero chance they're unaware of the discussions on places like reddit, sbnation, etc. I'd be mildly surprised if they were unaware of this forum.
(01-03-2019, 12:42 AM)qwerty49 Wrote:(01-02-2019, 04:07 PM)stupac2 Wrote: Isn't the problem right now both of those things? "Fire Larry Scott" and "Pac-12 refs" have become memes on /r/cfb. I kinda doubt the Pac-12 mothership is unaware of this.
It looks like the "Pac-12 mothership" consists of Larry Scott and maybe a couple of key university presidents/chancellors. That cabal is not going to fire itself. And it probably doesn't even know what Reddit is.
How clueless are they? Look no further than their granting Scott the keys to the treasury to camp out in a San Francisco highrise, travel like a Saudi prince, all based on the TV money that they somehow think is significant simply because it's more than they were making before he came.
Unaware, yes -- but bamboozled is probably a better word. And they're trying to sell equity in this thing? Sheesh.
...Do you honestly think the Pac-12 pays no attention to the way casual fans feel about them? There's zero chance they're unaware of the discussions on places like reddit, sbnation, etc. I'd be mildly surprised if they were unaware of this forum.
01-03-2019, 10:17 AM
Hiring a PR firm is so utterly pathetic. On field results are the only thing that matters. Unless the goal of the PR campaign is to attract more talented football and basketball players from the Southeast, Midwest, and Northeast, to Pac-12 schools, and drum up interest in college sports in the Pac-12 region, it's not going to have any impact whatsoever on the Pac-12's revenue situation, competitiveness to other leagues, and therefore, public perception.
Hiring a PR firm is so utterly pathetic. On field results are the only thing that matters. Unless the goal of the PR campaign is to attract more talented football and basketball players from the Southeast, Midwest, and Northeast, to Pac-12 schools, and drum up interest in college sports in the Pac-12 region, it's not going to have any impact whatsoever on the Pac-12's revenue situation, competitiveness to other leagues, and therefore, public perception.
01-03-2019, 03:34 PM
(01-03-2019, 09:27 AM)stupac2 Wrote:(01-03-2019, 12:42 AM)qwerty49 Wrote:(01-02-2019, 04:07 PM)stupac2 Wrote: Isn't the problem right now both of those things? "Fire Larry Scott" and "Pac-12 refs" have become memes on /r/cfb. I kinda doubt the Pac-12 mothership is unaware of this.
It looks like the "Pac-12 mothership" consists of Larry Scott and maybe a couple of key university presidents/chancellors. That cabal is not going to fire itself. And it probably doesn't even know what Reddit is.
How clueless are they? Look no further than their granting Scott the keys to the treasury to camp out in a San Francisco highrise, travel like a Saudi prince, all based on the TV money that they somehow think is significant simply because it's more than they were making before he came.
Unaware, yes -- but bamboozled is probably a better word. And they're trying to sell equity in this thing? Sheesh.
...Do you honestly think the Pac-12 pays no attention to the way casual fans feel about them? There's zero chance they're unaware of the discussions on places like reddit, sbnation, etc. I'd be mildly surprised if they were unaware of this forum.
To answer your question, yes.
Scott is a marketer and dealmaker and his bosses, the uni presidents and chancellors, have shown no inclination to ever look over his shoulder. Not that they have the expertise to do so anyway.
The fact that they hired a PR firm shows that Scott feels some heat but thinks it can be smoothed over with a messaging band-aid. It shows no evidence that he has a deeper insight to root causes. Rather, it shows a focus on effect, not on cause.
I can’t help but have a McEnroe moment when you imply that Scott and his bosses are aware of the content of Reddit threads and yes, the rants of our sainted little community of a couple hundred regular posters representing the smallest school in the conference. Let’s just agree to disagree on that one. (LOL the only guy Scott listens to is Doc and he was drummed out of here months ago).
(01-03-2019, 09:27 AM)stupac2 Wrote:(01-03-2019, 12:42 AM)qwerty49 Wrote:(01-02-2019, 04:07 PM)stupac2 Wrote: Isn't the problem right now both of those things? "Fire Larry Scott" and "Pac-12 refs" have become memes on /r/cfb. I kinda doubt the Pac-12 mothership is unaware of this.
It looks like the "Pac-12 mothership" consists of Larry Scott and maybe a couple of key university presidents/chancellors. That cabal is not going to fire itself. And it probably doesn't even know what Reddit is.
How clueless are they? Look no further than their granting Scott the keys to the treasury to camp out in a San Francisco highrise, travel like a Saudi prince, all based on the TV money that they somehow think is significant simply because it's more than they were making before he came.
Unaware, yes -- but bamboozled is probably a better word. And they're trying to sell equity in this thing? Sheesh.
...Do you honestly think the Pac-12 pays no attention to the way casual fans feel about them? There's zero chance they're unaware of the discussions on places like reddit, sbnation, etc. I'd be mildly surprised if they were unaware of this forum.
To answer your question, yes.
Scott is a marketer and dealmaker and his bosses, the uni presidents and chancellors, have shown no inclination to ever look over his shoulder. Not that they have the expertise to do so anyway.
The fact that they hired a PR firm shows that Scott feels some heat but thinks it can be smoothed over with a messaging band-aid. It shows no evidence that he has a deeper insight to root causes. Rather, it shows a focus on effect, not on cause.
I can’t help but have a McEnroe moment when you imply that Scott and his bosses are aware of the content of Reddit threads and yes, the rants of our sainted little community of a couple hundred regular posters representing the smallest school in the conference. Let’s just agree to disagree on that one. (LOL the only guy Scott listens to is Doc and he was drummed out of here months ago).
01-03-2019, 04:35 PM
(01-03-2019, 03:41 PM)stupac2 Wrote: Where do you think the "heat" Scott is feeling from is coming from if it's not percolating up from the bottom? Why hire a PR firm if the hoi polloi mean nothing? Your case makes no sense on its face.
LOL I’ll try mightily to keep this civil. Perhaps I did not explain myself adequately.
Being a marketer and promoter, Scott is way more sensitive to the media than he is to what you and I think. I bet he reads Wilner before he reads what you and I post on the Cardboard. Even ESPN had an article on the Pac-12 bowl woes the other day. It’s a matter of leverage — one media article reaches thousands and thousands of eyes. One post on Reddit, not so much. Scott is not going to waste his time worrying about “little” opinions.
And you miss my point about the PR firm. This is a sign that he thinks a PR band-aid will suffice to “fix the problem.” That tells me he doesn’t understand the problem itself, and its root causes.
Exactly why does that make no sense to you?
(01-03-2019, 03:41 PM)stupac2 Wrote: Where do you think the "heat" Scott is feeling from is coming from if it's not percolating up from the bottom? Why hire a PR firm if the hoi polloi mean nothing? Your case makes no sense on its face.
LOL I’ll try mightily to keep this civil. Perhaps I did not explain myself adequately.
Being a marketer and promoter, Scott is way more sensitive to the media than he is to what you and I think. I bet he reads Wilner before he reads what you and I post on the Cardboard. Even ESPN had an article on the Pac-12 bowl woes the other day. It’s a matter of leverage — one media article reaches thousands and thousands of eyes. One post on Reddit, not so much. Scott is not going to waste his time worrying about “little” opinions.
And you miss my point about the PR firm. This is a sign that he thinks a PR band-aid will suffice to “fix the problem.” That tells me he doesn’t understand the problem itself, and its root causes.
Exactly why does that make no sense to you?
01-03-2019, 09:34 PM
I'm pretty sure the heat is a NY Times B section story about the PAC-12 struggling on and off the field vs other power 5 conferences. I imagine it's not a coincidence that news of their hiring crisis PR broke the day after that story. I doubt five whiners on reddit are moving the needle.
I'm pretty sure the heat is a NY Times B section story about the PAC-12 struggling on and off the field vs other power 5 conferences. I imagine it's not a coincidence that news of their hiring crisis PR broke the day after that story. I doubt five whiners on reddit are moving the needle.
01-04-2019, 11:34 AM
Christ. My point was never that places like reddit are driving this concern, but that when the most avid fans are casually throwing around things that are direct insults to the conference and its leadership then it's a real problem, and that the Pac-12 offices would be derelict in their duty if they're not paying attention to this stuff. The media environment is a feedback loop, if the stuff in the sports page wasn't resonating with readers no one would care, and you find out about that by following things like twitter, reddit, facebook, etc. The latter ought to matter just as much as stories in the NYT.
Christ. My point was never that places like reddit are driving this concern, but that when the most avid fans are casually throwing around things that are direct insults to the conference and its leadership then it's a real problem, and that the Pac-12 offices would be derelict in their duty if they're not paying attention to this stuff. The media environment is a feedback loop, if the stuff in the sports page wasn't resonating with readers no one would care, and you find out about that by following things like twitter, reddit, facebook, etc. The latter ought to matter just as much as stories in the NYT.
01-05-2019, 02:45 AM
if Larry Shaw gets fired, maybe we could pry Gary Bettman away from the NHL.
Cal delenda est
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