No players suspended. Alex Cora still under investigation with Red Sox.
https://theathletic.com/1529253/2020/01/...stigation/
https://theathletic.com/1529253/2020/01/...stigation/
Hinch suspended for 1 year
No players suspended. Alex Cora still under investigation with Red Sox.
https://theathletic.com/1529253/2020/01/...stigation/
https://theathletic.com/1529253/2020/01/...stigation/
01-13-2020, 12:19 PM
Holy smokes! Manfred is not fooling around.
- GM and Manager suspended for a year.
- Astros lose first and second round picks for 2020 and 2021
- $5M fine
- Assistant GM put on the Pete Rose list (prohibited from any MLB association)
- GM and Manager suspended for a year.
- Astros lose first and second round picks for 2020 and 2021
- $5M fine
- Assistant GM put on the Pete Rose list (prohibited from any MLB association)
Holy smokes! Manfred is not fooling around.
- GM and Manager suspended for a year.
- Astros lose first and second round picks for 2020 and 2021
- $5M fine
- Assistant GM put on the Pete Rose list (prohibited from any MLB association)
- GM and Manager suspended for a year.
- Astros lose first and second round picks for 2020 and 2021
- $5M fine
- Assistant GM put on the Pete Rose list (prohibited from any MLB association)
01-13-2020, 12:21 PM
This was the best news I got all day. And the discipline coming for Cora is said to be "severe."
Please clear the field! The game is not over!
01-13-2020, 12:26 PM
(01-13-2020, 12:21 PM)Hank 91 Wrote: This was the best news I got all day. And the discipline coming for Cora is said to be "severe."
Not sure I understand. Why is AJ Hinch -- who has always seemed like a pretty good guy -- apparently being involved in cheating and being suspended for a year "the best news [you] got all day"? It strikes me as rather disappointing news.
(01-13-2020, 12:21 PM)Hank 91 Wrote: This was the best news I got all day. And the discipline coming for Cora is said to be "severe."
Not sure I understand. Why is AJ Hinch -- who has always seemed like a pretty good guy -- apparently being involved in cheating and being suspended for a year "the best news [you] got all day"? It strikes me as rather disappointing news.
01-13-2020, 12:31 PM
Hoping MLB issues a public report documenting what they found in their investigations.
Some people will say the Astros and Red Sox should be stripped of their titles, but I think everyone knows there will always be asterisks next to the WS winning teams Hinch and Cora managed. Will be fascinating to see if the teams keep their banners on public display for the seasons they were caught cheating to win.
I also sincerely hope AJ Hinch, Alex Cora, and Jeff Lunhow do some major mea culpas and apologizing. They can even cry in front of cameras when they do if they want. But they better do something to take responsibility. For they have shamed themselves, their franchises, their fans, and the game if MLB is punishing them this way.
Some people will say the Astros and Red Sox should be stripped of their titles, but I think everyone knows there will always be asterisks next to the WS winning teams Hinch and Cora managed. Will be fascinating to see if the teams keep their banners on public display for the seasons they were caught cheating to win.
I also sincerely hope AJ Hinch, Alex Cora, and Jeff Lunhow do some major mea culpas and apologizing. They can even cry in front of cameras when they do if they want. But they better do something to take responsibility. For they have shamed themselves, their franchises, their fans, and the game if MLB is punishing them this way.
Hoping MLB issues a public report documenting what they found in their investigations.
Some people will say the Astros and Red Sox should be stripped of their titles, but I think everyone knows there will always be asterisks next to the WS winning teams Hinch and Cora managed. Will be fascinating to see if the teams keep their banners on public display for the seasons they were caught cheating to win.
I also sincerely hope AJ Hinch, Alex Cora, and Jeff Lunhow do some major mea culpas and apologizing. They can even cry in front of cameras when they do if they want. But they better do something to take responsibility. For they have shamed themselves, their franchises, their fans, and the game if MLB is punishing them this way.
Some people will say the Astros and Red Sox should be stripped of their titles, but I think everyone knows there will always be asterisks next to the WS winning teams Hinch and Cora managed. Will be fascinating to see if the teams keep their banners on public display for the seasons they were caught cheating to win.
I also sincerely hope AJ Hinch, Alex Cora, and Jeff Lunhow do some major mea culpas and apologizing. They can even cry in front of cameras when they do if they want. But they better do something to take responsibility. For they have shamed themselves, their franchises, their fans, and the game if MLB is punishing them this way.
01-13-2020, 12:32 PM
As a Rangers fan, this makes me really happy. As a Stanford grad, though, ugh. Hinch is surely the current title holder for "most embarrassing Stanford alum."
01-13-2020, 12:44 PM
(01-13-2020, 12:32 PM)burger Wrote: As a Rangers fan, this makes me really happy. As a Stanford grad, though, ugh. Hinch is surely the current title holder for "most embarrassing Stanford alum."
Is this like a title belt? Who had it previously? I'd guess Elizabeth Holmes, but I dunno. Maybe one of those fake sailing kids, if any graduated?
(01-13-2020, 12:32 PM)burger Wrote: As a Rangers fan, this makes me really happy. As a Stanford grad, though, ugh. Hinch is surely the current title holder for "most embarrassing Stanford alum."
Is this like a title belt? Who had it previously? I'd guess Elizabeth Holmes, but I dunno. Maybe one of those fake sailing kids, if any graduated?
01-13-2020, 12:51 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2020, 01:13 PM by BostonCard.)
(01-13-2020, 12:44 PM)stupac2 Wrote:(01-13-2020, 12:32 PM)burger Wrote: As a Rangers fan, this makes me really happy. As a Stanford grad, though, ugh. Hinch is surely the current title holder for "most embarrassing Stanford alum."
Is this like a title belt? Who had it previously? I'd guess Elizabeth Holmes, but I dunno. Maybe one of those fake sailing kids, if any graduated?
Well, there is the former placekicker (https://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Th...090351.php, which should probably involve a trigger warning of some sort).
There's also Jonathan Martin, though in his case there are a lot of complex issues and likely some mental illness which makes it more tragic than embarrassing.
With regards to Hinch, sign stealing is as old as the game. Not to say that leading a systemic effort to steal signs doesn't merit a suspension, but as TC noted, there's a whole host of similar stuff that has happened in the NFL that merited little more than a slap in the wrist (Phogge also forgot inflategate).
BC
Hinch was just fired by the Astros.
BC
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2020, 01:13 PM by BostonCard.)
(01-13-2020, 12:44 PM)stupac2 Wrote:(01-13-2020, 12:32 PM)burger Wrote: As a Rangers fan, this makes me really happy. As a Stanford grad, though, ugh. Hinch is surely the current title holder for "most embarrassing Stanford alum."
Is this like a title belt? Who had it previously? I'd guess Elizabeth Holmes, but I dunno. Maybe one of those fake sailing kids, if any graduated?
Well, there is the former placekicker (https://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Th...090351.php, which should probably involve a trigger warning of some sort).
There's also Jonathan Martin, though in his case there are a lot of complex issues and likely some mental illness which makes it more tragic than embarrassing.
With regards to Hinch, sign stealing is as old as the game. Not to say that leading a systemic effort to steal signs doesn't merit a suspension, but as TC noted, there's a whole host of similar stuff that has happened in the NFL that merited little more than a slap in the wrist (Phogge also forgot inflategate).
BC
Hinch was just fired by the Astros.
BC
01-13-2020, 01:15 PM
(01-13-2020, 12:51 PM)BostonCard Wrote:(01-13-2020, 12:44 PM)stupac2 Wrote:(01-13-2020, 12:32 PM)burger Wrote: As a Rangers fan, this makes me really happy. As a Stanford grad, though, ugh. Hinch is surely the current title holder for "most embarrassing Stanford alum."
Is this like a title belt? Who had it previously? I'd guess Elizabeth Holmes, but I dunno. Maybe one of those fake sailing kids, if any graduated?
Well, there is the former placekicker (https://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Th...090351.php, which should probably involve a trigger warning of some sort).
There's also Jonathan Martin, though in his case there are a lot of complex issues and likely some mental illness which makes it more tragic than embarrassing.
With regards to Hinch, sign stealing is as old as the game. Not to say that leading a systemic effort to steal signs doesn't merit a suspension, but as TC noted, there's a whole host of similar stuff that has happened in the NFL that merited little more than a slap in the wrist (Phogge also forgot inflategate).
BC
Hinch was just fired by the Astros.
BC
The GM was fired along with Hinch.
(01-13-2020, 12:51 PM)BostonCard Wrote:(01-13-2020, 12:44 PM)stupac2 Wrote:(01-13-2020, 12:32 PM)burger Wrote: As a Rangers fan, this makes me really happy. As a Stanford grad, though, ugh. Hinch is surely the current title holder for "most embarrassing Stanford alum."
Is this like a title belt? Who had it previously? I'd guess Elizabeth Holmes, but I dunno. Maybe one of those fake sailing kids, if any graduated?
Well, there is the former placekicker (https://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Th...090351.php, which should probably involve a trigger warning of some sort).
There's also Jonathan Martin, though in his case there are a lot of complex issues and likely some mental illness which makes it more tragic than embarrassing.
With regards to Hinch, sign stealing is as old as the game. Not to say that leading a systemic effort to steal signs doesn't merit a suspension, but as TC noted, there's a whole host of similar stuff that has happened in the NFL that merited little more than a slap in the wrist (Phogge also forgot inflategate).
BC
Hinch was just fired by the Astros.
BC
The GM was fired along with Hinch.
01-13-2020, 01:20 PM
And here is link to the publicly released report:
https://img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/ima...ty27l7.pdf
https://img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/ima...ty27l7.pdf
And here is link to the publicly released report:
https://img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/ima...ty27l7.pdf
https://img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/ima...ty27l7.pdf
01-13-2020, 01:21 PM
(01-13-2020, 12:32 PM)burger Wrote: As a Rangers fan, this makes me really happy. As a Stanford grad, though, ugh. Hinch is surely the current title holder for "most embarrassing non-political Stanford alum."
Fixed it. . . .
Free Phogge!!!! And no, crimson doesn't refer to the Tide.
01-13-2020, 01:22 PM
With enough alums eventually there will be some that will be convicted of crimes. I am not sure I want to compare those that have been convicted of crimes with cheating in sports.
In the domain of sports cheating this type of systematic cheating is pretty high on the list. Though stealing signs by using center field tricks is not unprecedented.
In this case, taking away the wins is not really a penalty. The fans will still remember sitting in the stadiums or watching on TV and celebrating the wins. Taking them away several years later is not really that big of a deal. Bush, Carroll and crew are great examples of that. USC alums have great fondness for the Carroll and Bush era even though, on paper, there was a winless season in the mix.
IMHO the best thing to do is put in very harsh penalties that impact the present and future for the organization. As they tainted MLB and the World Series brands, I would have no problem if those organizations did not collect any of the MLB revenue sharing from Television for 5-10 years or if they had to live with a lower salary cap/greater luxury tax. It doesn't address the past, but the penalty should be severe enough for other organizations to not want to try similar schemes for near term glory.
In the domain of sports cheating this type of systematic cheating is pretty high on the list. Though stealing signs by using center field tricks is not unprecedented.
In this case, taking away the wins is not really a penalty. The fans will still remember sitting in the stadiums or watching on TV and celebrating the wins. Taking them away several years later is not really that big of a deal. Bush, Carroll and crew are great examples of that. USC alums have great fondness for the Carroll and Bush era even though, on paper, there was a winless season in the mix.
IMHO the best thing to do is put in very harsh penalties that impact the present and future for the organization. As they tainted MLB and the World Series brands, I would have no problem if those organizations did not collect any of the MLB revenue sharing from Television for 5-10 years or if they had to live with a lower salary cap/greater luxury tax. It doesn't address the past, but the penalty should be severe enough for other organizations to not want to try similar schemes for near term glory.
With enough alums eventually there will be some that will be convicted of crimes. I am not sure I want to compare those that have been convicted of crimes with cheating in sports.
In the domain of sports cheating this type of systematic cheating is pretty high on the list. Though stealing signs by using center field tricks is not unprecedented.
In this case, taking away the wins is not really a penalty. The fans will still remember sitting in the stadiums or watching on TV and celebrating the wins. Taking them away several years later is not really that big of a deal. Bush, Carroll and crew are great examples of that. USC alums have great fondness for the Carroll and Bush era even though, on paper, there was a winless season in the mix.
IMHO the best thing to do is put in very harsh penalties that impact the present and future for the organization. As they tainted MLB and the World Series brands, I would have no problem if those organizations did not collect any of the MLB revenue sharing from Television for 5-10 years or if they had to live with a lower salary cap/greater luxury tax. It doesn't address the past, but the penalty should be severe enough for other organizations to not want to try similar schemes for near term glory.
In the domain of sports cheating this type of systematic cheating is pretty high on the list. Though stealing signs by using center field tricks is not unprecedented.
In this case, taking away the wins is not really a penalty. The fans will still remember sitting in the stadiums or watching on TV and celebrating the wins. Taking them away several years later is not really that big of a deal. Bush, Carroll and crew are great examples of that. USC alums have great fondness for the Carroll and Bush era even though, on paper, there was a winless season in the mix.
IMHO the best thing to do is put in very harsh penalties that impact the present and future for the organization. As they tainted MLB and the World Series brands, I would have no problem if those organizations did not collect any of the MLB revenue sharing from Television for 5-10 years or if they had to live with a lower salary cap/greater luxury tax. It doesn't address the past, but the penalty should be severe enough for other organizations to not want to try similar schemes for near term glory.
01-13-2020, 01:59 PM
Apparently Hinch and Lunhow both knew about and didn't support the cheating, but neither used their authority to make sure it didn't occur. It's like Manfred is telling Lunhow and Hinch it is not enough to tell someone who has been drinking that they shouldn't drive. He wants them to take the keys away from the would be drunk driver. It's little different in this case because the GM and Manager do have authority over everyone who participated in the cheating scheme, so I can see Manfred's point. He seems most concerned about fostering a culture of plausible deniability that sort of winks at cheating while saying they are agains it. So from this standpoint, Manfred is not giving any benefit of doubt to Lunhow or Hinch and sending a very clear message about how clubs are expected to set a culture of integrity that would stop any ideas of cheating from ever being considered, let alone implemented.
It's refreshing to see an institution show so little tolerance for bad behavior. I'm sure many will claim the punishment is too severe, but for the reasons Manfred stated for justifying it, they will be hollow arguments that miss the point.
It's refreshing to see an institution show so little tolerance for bad behavior. I'm sure many will claim the punishment is too severe, but for the reasons Manfred stated for justifying it, they will be hollow arguments that miss the point.
Apparently Hinch and Lunhow both knew about and didn't support the cheating, but neither used their authority to make sure it didn't occur. It's like Manfred is telling Lunhow and Hinch it is not enough to tell someone who has been drinking that they shouldn't drive. He wants them to take the keys away from the would be drunk driver. It's little different in this case because the GM and Manager do have authority over everyone who participated in the cheating scheme, so I can see Manfred's point. He seems most concerned about fostering a culture of plausible deniability that sort of winks at cheating while saying they are agains it. So from this standpoint, Manfred is not giving any benefit of doubt to Lunhow or Hinch and sending a very clear message about how clubs are expected to set a culture of integrity that would stop any ideas of cheating from ever being considered, let alone implemented.
It's refreshing to see an institution show so little tolerance for bad behavior. I'm sure many will claim the punishment is too severe, but for the reasons Manfred stated for justifying it, they will be hollow arguments that miss the point.
It's refreshing to see an institution show so little tolerance for bad behavior. I'm sure many will claim the punishment is too severe, but for the reasons Manfred stated for justifying it, they will be hollow arguments that miss the point.
01-13-2020, 02:00 PM
(01-13-2020, 01:22 PM)Farm93 Wrote: With enough alums eventually there will be some that will be convicted of crimes. I am not sure I want to compare those that have been convicted of crimes with cheating in sports.
Unfortunately for Hinch, the formula for most embarrassing alum is: [seriousness of actions] * [how much publicity the actions are getting]. Organized sign stealing is not the worst thing a Stanford alum as done (Elizabeth Holmes committed worse crimes every day before breakfast). But Hinch is going to be off the charts on the second component this year.
Elizabeth stands a good chance of retaking the title as soon as her trial starts.
(01-13-2020, 01:22 PM)Farm93 Wrote: With enough alums eventually there will be some that will be convicted of crimes. I am not sure I want to compare those that have been convicted of crimes with cheating in sports.
Unfortunately for Hinch, the formula for most embarrassing alum is: [seriousness of actions] * [how much publicity the actions are getting]. Organized sign stealing is not the worst thing a Stanford alum as done (Elizabeth Holmes committed worse crimes every day before breakfast). But Hinch is going to be off the charts on the second component this year.
Elizabeth stands a good chance of retaking the title as soon as her trial starts.
01-13-2020, 02:14 PM
(01-13-2020, 02:00 PM)burger Wrote: Unfortunately for Hinch, the formula for most embarrassing alum is: [seriousness of actions] * [how much publicity the actions are getting].Lucky for Hinch that Woods' SUV crash and related animated re-enactments will leave that event safely ahead of Hinch on this formula.
Baseball sign stealing...Boring
Golfer's sex & adultery scandal...Memorable and embarrassing.
I doubt Hinch will get his own Chinese News animation...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RQ7I_UNQlQ
(01-13-2020, 02:00 PM)burger Wrote: Unfortunately for Hinch, the formula for most embarrassing alum is: [seriousness of actions] * [how much publicity the actions are getting].Lucky for Hinch that Woods' SUV crash and related animated re-enactments will leave that event safely ahead of Hinch on this formula.
Baseball sign stealing...Boring
Golfer's sex & adultery scandal...Memorable and embarrassing.
I doubt Hinch will get his own Chinese News animation...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RQ7I_UNQlQ
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