[cardcrimson]

Interesting article. "Last resort" and "exhausted all viable avenues" my ass. Doesn't paint the Athletic Department in a very good light when the article highlights several programs at other schools that were saved after they'd been cut.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/26/sport...sContainer

[cardcrimson]

Interesting article. "Last resort" and "exhausted all viable avenues" my ass. Doesn't paint the Athletic Department in a very good light when the article highlights several programs at other schools that were saved after they'd been cut.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/26/sport...sContainer

[Softball Fan]

Well written article.  I read through most of the comments which were surprisingly thoughtful and more diverse than you find here.  This is one example from someone who says she is a Stanford student:

Emmy Li
Stanford
1h ago

Hi, Stanford student here. Can we talk about how athletes have long received special treatment (separate medical services, better psychological services, special dinners, special tutoring, academic accommodations in classes, etc.) Can we talk about how, during a pandemic, they’ve been staying at the Palo Alto Sheraton racking up hotel bills since July 1 and partying unmasked in each other’s rooms. Can we talk about how athletes threw a party at 576 Alvarado a couple nights ago, and face no consequences despite the university threatening eviction to graduate students who allow guests into their apartments?


Then, can we talk about how Stanford is raising its pool of financial aid resources this year during a pandemic, lowering barriers to access for low- and middle- income families? Can we talk about how Stanford is finally guaranteeing 12-month funding for doctoral candidates? I do not feel bad at all for Stanford cutting the sports which are affirmative action for privileged kids.

I have been so fed up over the years seeing students have to go to food banks because of food insecurity and then see athletes be showered with attention, praise, and more funding from administrators. We’re supposed to be a research university, not a playground for the rich.

[Softball Fan]

Well written article.  I read through most of the comments which were surprisingly thoughtful and more diverse than you find here.  This is one example from someone who says she is a Stanford student:

Emmy Li
Stanford
1h ago

Hi, Stanford student here. Can we talk about how athletes have long received special treatment (separate medical services, better psychological services, special dinners, special tutoring, academic accommodations in classes, etc.) Can we talk about how, during a pandemic, they’ve been staying at the Palo Alto Sheraton racking up hotel bills since July 1 and partying unmasked in each other’s rooms. Can we talk about how athletes threw a party at 576 Alvarado a couple nights ago, and face no consequences despite the university threatening eviction to graduate students who allow guests into their apartments?


Then, can we talk about how Stanford is raising its pool of financial aid resources this year during a pandemic, lowering barriers to access for low- and middle- income families? Can we talk about how Stanford is finally guaranteeing 12-month funding for doctoral candidates? I do not feel bad at all for Stanford cutting the sports which are affirmative action for privileged kids.

I have been so fed up over the years seeing students have to go to food banks because of food insecurity and then see athletes be showered with attention, praise, and more funding from administrators. We’re supposed to be a research university, not a playground for the rich.

[BobK]

Next she will say the Bill Gates if the world had an unfair advantage

[BobK]

Next she will say the Bill Gates if the world had an unfair advantage

[JohnR34231]

Next she will say  the Bill Gates if the world had an unfair advantage

Oh, those types of comments are very common these days.

People like Gates, Bezos, and Musk are as rich and powerful as they are not because of hard work or any admirable qualities like that. They merely got lucky in the gene pool lottery.

[JohnR34231]

Next she will say  the Bill Gates if the world had an unfair advantage

Oh, those types of comments are very common these days.

People like Gates, Bezos, and Musk are as rich and powerful as they are not because of hard work or any admirable qualities like that. They merely got lucky in the gene pool lottery.

[Phogge]

There is a choice to make. Do we work 16 hours a day and go to sleep or do we have a world with sports, movies, theatre, symphony, rock concerts, poker tables and snorkels. I do think all athletes who violate the no party policy should be sent home regardless of the effect on their teams and that universities redo their policy and make athletics a smaller part of their mission.

But I don’t think many college students want to live in a cocoon.

[Phogge]

There is a choice to make. Do we work 16 hours a day and go to sleep or do we have a world with sports, movies, theatre, symphony, rock concerts, poker tables and snorkels. I do think all athletes who violate the no party policy should be sent home regardless of the effect on their teams and that universities redo their policy and make athletics a smaller part of their mission.

But I don’t think many college students want to live in a cocoon.

[OutsiderFan]

Next she will say  the Bill Gates if the world had an unfair advantage

Oh, those types of comments are very common these days.

People like Gates, Bezos, and Musk are as rich and powerful as they are not because of hard work or any admirable qualities like that. They merely got lucky in the gene pool lottery.

They and Zuckerberg are also all psychopaths. I'll never understand why people worship rich and powerful more than celebrate humane and honest.

[OutsiderFan]

Next she will say  the Bill Gates if the world had an unfair advantage

Oh, those types of comments are very common these days.

People like Gates, Bezos, and Musk are as rich and powerful as they are not because of hard work or any admirable qualities like that. They merely got lucky in the gene pool lottery.

They and Zuckerberg are also all psychopaths. I'll never understand why people worship rich and powerful more than celebrate humane and honest.

[Mick]

Well written article.  I read through most of the comments which were surprisingly thoughtful and more diverse than you find here.  This is one example from someone who says she is a Stanford student:

Emmy Li
Stanford
1h ago

Hi, Stanford student here. Can we talk about how athletes have long received special treatment (separate medical services, better psychological services, special dinners, special tutoring, academic accommodations in classes, etc.) Can we talk about how, during a pandemic, they’ve been staying at the Palo Alto Sheraton racking up hotel bills since July 1 and partying unmasked in each other’s rooms. Can we talk about how athletes threw a party at 576 Alvarado a couple nights ago, and face no consequences despite the university threatening eviction to graduate students who allow guests into their apartments?


Then, can we talk about how Stanford is raising its pool of financial aid resources this year during a pandemic, lowering barriers to access for low- and middle- income families? Can we talk about how Stanford is finally guaranteeing 12-month funding for doctoral candidates? I do not feel bad at all for Stanford cutting the sports which are affirmative action for privileged kids.

I have been so fed up over the years seeing students have to go to food banks because of food insecurity and then see athletes be showered with attention, praise, and more funding from administrators. We’re supposed to be a research university, not a playground for the rich.

Couple of thoughts re: Ms. Li's commentary:
1. "showered with attention, praise and more funding."  Interesting terms and interesting ordering of said terms.  Apparently Ms. Li doesn't receive enough attention and praise.
2.  "Can we talk about how athletes have long received special treatment (separate medical services, better psychological services, special dinners, special tutoring, academic accommodations in classes, etc.) "  Separate medical services for presumably different injuries and illnesses and training table/special dinners, I understand -- they need better/different physician services and nutrition at that level.  the academic accommodations have always been a pain for non-athletes, that was the only real gripe I remember from my undergrad days.  As to the tutoring...I can't imagine Stanford would lack tutoring for any student that needs it.  Is that really a thing?
3.  The "food insecurity" comment I don't understand at all.  And maybe because I was on a campus where every student was guaranteed buffet-style dining 19 meals a week.  There are Stanford students who don't have access to food?

[Mick]

Well written article.  I read through most of the comments which were surprisingly thoughtful and more diverse than you find here.  This is one example from someone who says she is a Stanford student:

Emmy Li
Stanford
1h ago

Hi, Stanford student here. Can we talk about how athletes have long received special treatment (separate medical services, better psychological services, special dinners, special tutoring, academic accommodations in classes, etc.) Can we talk about how, during a pandemic, they’ve been staying at the Palo Alto Sheraton racking up hotel bills since July 1 and partying unmasked in each other’s rooms. Can we talk about how athletes threw a party at 576 Alvarado a couple nights ago, and face no consequences despite the university threatening eviction to graduate students who allow guests into their apartments?


Then, can we talk about how Stanford is raising its pool of financial aid resources this year during a pandemic, lowering barriers to access for low- and middle- income families? Can we talk about how Stanford is finally guaranteeing 12-month funding for doctoral candidates? I do not feel bad at all for Stanford cutting the sports which are affirmative action for privileged kids.

I have been so fed up over the years seeing students have to go to food banks because of food insecurity and then see athletes be showered with attention, praise, and more funding from administrators. We’re supposed to be a research university, not a playground for the rich.

Couple of thoughts re: Ms. Li's commentary:
1. "showered with attention, praise and more funding."  Interesting terms and interesting ordering of said terms.  Apparently Ms. Li doesn't receive enough attention and praise.
2.  "Can we talk about how athletes have long received special treatment (separate medical services, better psychological services, special dinners, special tutoring, academic accommodations in classes, etc.) "  Separate medical services for presumably different injuries and illnesses and training table/special dinners, I understand -- they need better/different physician services and nutrition at that level.  the academic accommodations have always been a pain for non-athletes, that was the only real gripe I remember from my undergrad days.  As to the tutoring...I can't imagine Stanford would lack tutoring for any student that needs it.  Is that really a thing?
3.  The "food insecurity" comment I don't understand at all.  And maybe because I was on a campus where every student was guaranteed buffet-style dining 19 meals a week.  There are Stanford students who don't have access to food?

[Goose]

3.  The "food insecurity" comment I don't understand at all.  And maybe because I was on a campus where every student was guaranteed buffet-style dining 19 meals a week.  There are Stanford students who don't have access to food?

The Wilbur food service could make those things simultaneously true.

[Goose]

3.  The "food insecurity" comment I don't understand at all.  And maybe because I was on a campus where every student was guaranteed buffet-style dining 19 meals a week.  There are Stanford students who don't have access to food?

The Wilbur food service could make those things simultaneously true.

[Papa John]

While I don't agree with many of Ms. Li's characterizations or conclusions, I appreciate her willingness to speak out. When it comes to support for college athletics, the CardBoard is an echo chamber (one that I deeply value). But there are plenty of folks--I met some during my time at Stanford--whose attitudes about college athletics and Olympic sports range from apathetic to negative. That's how they roll. I don't really see the point in trying to tear down their narrative, though. I would rather, as many folks do here, point out the value of collegiate/Olympic sports--and Stanford's contributions--to society.

[Papa John]

While I don't agree with many of Ms. Li's characterizations or conclusions, I appreciate her willingness to speak out. When it comes to support for college athletics, the CardBoard is an echo chamber (one that I deeply value). But there are plenty of folks--I met some during my time at Stanford--whose attitudes about college athletics and Olympic sports range from apathetic to negative. That's how they roll. I don't really see the point in trying to tear down their narrative, though. I would rather, as many folks do here, point out the value of collegiate/Olympic sports--and Stanford's contributions--to society.

[JohnR34231]

Next she will say  the Bill Gates if the world had an unfair advantage

Oh, those types of comments are very common these days.

People like Gates, Bezos, and Musk are as rich and powerful as they are not because of hard work or any admirable qualities like that. They merely got lucky in the gene pool lottery.

They and Zuckerberg are also all psychopaths. I'll never understand why people worship rich and powerful more than celebrate humane and honest.

I don't think very many people worship them.
Some people do admire what they have accomplished and are accomplishing.

[JohnR34231]

Next she will say  the Bill Gates if the world had an unfair advantage

Oh, those types of comments are very common these days.

People like Gates, Bezos, and Musk are as rich and powerful as they are not because of hard work or any admirable qualities like that. They merely got lucky in the gene pool lottery.

They and Zuckerberg are also all psychopaths. I'll never understand why people worship rich and powerful more than celebrate humane and honest.

I don't think very many people worship them.
Some people do admire what they have accomplished and are accomplishing.

[oldalum]

I have seen Stanford sports teams staying at the Sheraton before (I remember the cross country team one year, which was in the process of loading up on a bus to go to some high-altitude location for a couple of weeks) for start of fall practice before a dorm opens up. I'm pretty sure the dorms are closed right now and the W volleyball team is staying there while they are practicing (didn't anyone besides me watch the coaches' zoom presentation yesterday?--Hambly is staying there too as the on-site adult supervisor). Partying in each others rooms? What else are they supposed to do besides their 6:30 a.m. practice and their 6:30 pm practice? I imagine Hambly would call it bonding. I'd guess the Sheraton's rate is being discounted highly at the moment. The letter writer could have picked some maybe better examples of extravagance, like the Pac12 preview W golf tournament in Hawaii, the W tennis team's annual Thanksgiving trip to Hawaii, W swimming preseason training trip to Hawaii. I'm obviously biased but I don't begrudge them that stuff, and I imagine it's part of the recruiting pitch as well.

[oldalum]

I have seen Stanford sports teams staying at the Sheraton before (I remember the cross country team one year, which was in the process of loading up on a bus to go to some high-altitude location for a couple of weeks) for start of fall practice before a dorm opens up. I'm pretty sure the dorms are closed right now and the W volleyball team is staying there while they are practicing (didn't anyone besides me watch the coaches' zoom presentation yesterday?--Hambly is staying there too as the on-site adult supervisor). Partying in each others rooms? What else are they supposed to do besides their 6:30 a.m. practice and their 6:30 pm practice? I imagine Hambly would call it bonding. I'd guess the Sheraton's rate is being discounted highly at the moment. The letter writer could have picked some maybe better examples of extravagance, like the Pac12 preview W golf tournament in Hawaii, the W tennis team's annual Thanksgiving trip to Hawaii, W swimming preseason training trip to Hawaii. I'm obviously biased but I don't begrudge them that stuff, and I imagine it's part of the recruiting pitch as well.

[Goose]

Next she will say  the Bill Gates if the world had an unfair advantage

Oh, those types of comments are very common these days.

People like Gates, Bezos, and Musk are as rich and powerful as they are not because of hard work or any admirable qualities like that. They merely got lucky in the gene pool lottery.

They and Zuckerberg are also all psychopaths. I'll never understand why people worship rich and powerful more than celebrate humane and honest.

I don't think very many people worship them.
Some people do admire what they have accomplished and are accomplishing.

Unfortunately there are very many people who believe that if you are a "celebrity" the you must be smart, insightful, and generally correct. How do you think Trump got elected?

[Goose]

Next she will say  the Bill Gates if the world had an unfair advantage

Oh, those types of comments are very common these days.

People like Gates, Bezos, and Musk are as rich and powerful as they are not because of hard work or any admirable qualities like that. They merely got lucky in the gene pool lottery.

They and Zuckerberg are also all psychopaths. I'll never understand why people worship rich and powerful more than celebrate humane and honest.

I don't think very many people worship them.
Some people do admire what they have accomplished and are accomplishing.

Unfortunately there are very many people who believe that if you are a "celebrity" the you must be smart, insightful, and generally correct. How do you think Trump got elected?

[fullmetal]

We had an OCC junior transfer coming in this year for MVB?  I was just surprised Stanford took a transfer there.  Happy for it.  I think there are probably many academically-qualified transfer applicants who deserve a shot at a Stanford degree/experience.

Anyway, on to Emmy's points...if she is indeed a Stanford student and not someone just parroting quotes from the internet about the whole situation.

Athletes do have access to special services, but the level of access varies per sport and by situation.  Medical services?  Athletes get injured...a lot.  No reason to shame them for such a thing.  There are athletes who never get injured and never experience this "special" level of treatment.  There are some athletes who get injured and are denied access to care based on procedural issues or definitions.  As for psych services, good luck finding time to schedule such appointments in a busy schedule.

Dinners?  Maybe she means training table.  It's access to slightly better food, yeah.  Wouldn't call it special dinners unless something has markedly changed.  Tutoring?  Only in your intro classes, and the level of help depends on the tutor.  Good luck finding a tutor in engineering classes.  I never found one for my EE classes.  Academic accommodations in classes?  Never had any.  Haven't heard of such either, but maybe they exist.

The pandemic-specific complaints are unusual circumstances.  Certainly I feel that student-athletes should be held to standards that the university sets.  Partying and hotel rooms...not a good look.  Get it together, kids.  But these aren't the kids whose sports have been cut are they?  Are 11 sports being left to die because the surviving sports are partying?  Ironically, I'd say the 11 cut sports are comprised of athletes less likely to party.

"Sports which are affirmative action for privileged kids"...it sounds like she does not know much about the sports that were cut and how many of those athletes were walk-ons vs. recruited.  Affirmative action and privilege are quite the dogwhistle/signal  here.

I've never heard of students going to food banks, but maybe she means graduate students.  I think it's fair to expect graduate students to be more independent than undergraduates, but hey -- a first-year graduate student can walk on to a team and get access to the training table to...if they buy a meal plan.  Undergrad student-athletes still have to pay for it.

Attention, praise, and funding are not equally distributed among all athletes, and in this case, you can see that the athletes who've had their sports cut are likely the ones who never got much to begin with.  Emmy should be lobbying for the reinstatement of the have-not athletes, but she's perfectly happy to tar all athletes with the same accusations of entitlement.  We know who the haves are...it's not a good look.  They need to lean out their budgets.

And you know what?  She'd learn the truth if she walked on to a team and put in 20 hrs/wk working at a sport.  But she never will.

[fullmetal]

We had an OCC junior transfer coming in this year for MVB?  I was just surprised Stanford took a transfer there.  Happy for it.  I think there are probably many academically-qualified transfer applicants who deserve a shot at a Stanford degree/experience.

Anyway, on to Emmy's points...if she is indeed a Stanford student and not someone just parroting quotes from the internet about the whole situation.

Athletes do have access to special services, but the level of access varies per sport and by situation.  Medical services?  Athletes get injured...a lot.  No reason to shame them for such a thing.  There are athletes who never get injured and never experience this "special" level of treatment.  There are some athletes who get injured and are denied access to care based on procedural issues or definitions.  As for psych services, good luck finding time to schedule such appointments in a busy schedule.

Dinners?  Maybe she means training table.  It's access to slightly better food, yeah.  Wouldn't call it special dinners unless something has markedly changed.  Tutoring?  Only in your intro classes, and the level of help depends on the tutor.  Good luck finding a tutor in engineering classes.  I never found one for my EE classes.  Academic accommodations in classes?  Never had any.  Haven't heard of such either, but maybe they exist.

The pandemic-specific complaints are unusual circumstances.  Certainly I feel that student-athletes should be held to standards that the university sets.  Partying and hotel rooms...not a good look.  Get it together, kids.  But these aren't the kids whose sports have been cut are they?  Are 11 sports being left to die because the surviving sports are partying?  Ironically, I'd say the 11 cut sports are comprised of athletes less likely to party.

"Sports which are affirmative action for privileged kids"...it sounds like she does not know much about the sports that were cut and how many of those athletes were walk-ons vs. recruited.  Affirmative action and privilege are quite the dogwhistle/signal  here.

I've never heard of students going to food banks, but maybe she means graduate students.  I think it's fair to expect graduate students to be more independent than undergraduates, but hey -- a first-year graduate student can walk on to a team and get access to the training table to...if they buy a meal plan.  Undergrad student-athletes still have to pay for it.

Attention, praise, and funding are not equally distributed among all athletes, and in this case, you can see that the athletes who've had their sports cut are likely the ones who never got much to begin with.  Emmy should be lobbying for the reinstatement of the have-not athletes, but she's perfectly happy to tar all athletes with the same accusations of entitlement.  We know who the haves are...it's not a good look.  They need to lean out their budgets.

And you know what?  She'd learn the truth if she walked on to a team and put in 20 hrs/wk working at a sport.  But she never will.

[oldalum]

I think the following is perhaps even more true:

there are very many people who believe that if you are a "celebrity" successful then you must be smart, insightful, and generally correct. 

[oldalum]

I think the following is perhaps even more true:

there are very many people who believe that if you are a "celebrity" successful then you must be smart, insightful, and generally correct. 

[Maple Leaf]

Ms. Li could always opt to transfer to a public institution of higher education, where the attitude is that nothing is too good for the students, so don't give them anything.

[Maple Leaf]

Ms. Li could always opt to transfer to a public institution of higher education, where the attitude is that nothing is too good for the students, so don't give them anything.

[Phogge]

You mean like State in the mid-60’s?

[Phogge]

You mean like State in the mid-60’s?

[BostonCard]

Pretty sure I never could get this in the Wilbur dorm:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/maeubanks/status/1161828175841656832?s=20[/tweet]

BC

[BostonCard]

Pretty sure I never could get this in the Wilbur dorm:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/maeubanks/status/1161828175841656832?s=20[/tweet]

BC

[gocard14]

Next she will say  the Bill Gates if the world had an unfair advantage

Oh, those types of comments are very common these days.

People like Gates, Bezos, and Musk are as rich and powerful as they are not because of hard work or any admirable qualities like that. They merely got lucky in the gene pool lottery.

They and Zuckerberg are also all psychopaths. I'll never understand why people worship rich and powerful more than celebrate humane and honest.

"When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people"
-Abraham Heschel

[gocard14]

Next she will say  the Bill Gates if the world had an unfair advantage

Oh, those types of comments are very common these days.

People like Gates, Bezos, and Musk are as rich and powerful as they are not because of hard work or any admirable qualities like that. They merely got lucky in the gene pool lottery.

They and Zuckerberg are also all psychopaths. I'll never understand why people worship rich and powerful more than celebrate humane and honest.

"When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people"
-Abraham Heschel

[fullmetal]

Pretty sure I never could get this in the Wilbur dorm:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/maeubanks/status/1161828175841656832?s=20[/tweet]

BC

Yeah not gonna lie, that's the kind of excess lavished upon the haves...definitely not the have-nots.  Meanwhile, there's no money for 11 other sports.

[fullmetal]

Pretty sure I never could get this in the Wilbur dorm:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/maeubanks/status/1161828175841656832?s=20[/tweet]

BC

Yeah not gonna lie, that's the kind of excess lavished upon the haves...definitely not the have-nots.  Meanwhile, there's no money for 11 other sports.

[Maple Leaf]

You mean like State in the mid-60’s?

I had the thrill, privilege and dispair to attend both University of California and California State Campuses starting in the late 60's through the early 70's, sometimes at the same time, and just for grins I took some classes at a couple of JC's (the best education regardless of $$$ spent next to the
School of Hard-Knocks).

[Maple Leaf]

You mean like State in the mid-60’s?

I had the thrill, privilege and dispair to attend both University of California and California State Campuses starting in the late 60's through the early 70's, sometimes at the same time, and just for grins I took some classes at a couple of JC's (the best education regardless of $$$ spent next to the
School of Hard-Knocks).