[JohnR34231]

Down to winless Penn State 20-10 at the beginning of Q4.

[JohnR34231]

Down to winless Penn State 20-10 at the beginning of Q4.

[Hurlburt88]

and PSU wins 27-17

[Hurlburt88]

and PSU wins 27-17

[JohnR34231]

and PSU wins 27-17

The announcers were discussing JH's future. They said:
1. He can go back to the NFL if he wants. The question is does he.
2. While he hasn't done what he was supposed to do at Michigan, he still has done pretty well. Can Michigan get anyone who will do better? Is Michigan that attractive a gig any more?
3. They probably need to make a decision on extending his contract before it starts hampering recruiting.

[JohnR34231]

and PSU wins 27-17

The announcers were discussing JH's future. They said:
1. He can go back to the NFL if he wants. The question is does he.
2. While he hasn't done what he was supposed to do at Michigan, he still has done pretty well. Can Michigan get anyone who will do better? Is Michigan that attractive a gig any more?
3. They probably need to make a decision on extending his contract before it starts hampering recruiting.

[BostonCard]

On the bright side, the Lions just fired their coach and GM, so it would only be a 40 minute commute for him to go from Ann Arbor to Lions stadium.

BC

[BostonCard]

On the bright side, the Lions just fired their coach and GM, so it would only be a 40 minute commute for him to go from Ann Arbor to Lions stadium.

BC

[lex24]

Michigan should not be a tough place to recruit.  It’s an excellent school, great facilities, one of the most famous venues in US.  My question is if players have quit on him.

[lex24]

Michigan should not be a tough place to recruit.  It’s an excellent school, great facilities, one of the most famous venues in US.  My question is if players have quit on him.

[CompSci87]

On the bright side, the Lions just fired their coach and GM, so it would only be a 40 minute commute for him to go from Ann Arbor to Lions stadium.

BC

Hiring Harbaugh as both would be a great way to avoid his past issue of friction with the GM.  ;-)

[CompSci87]

On the bright side, the Lions just fired their coach and GM, so it would only be a 40 minute commute for him to go from Ann Arbor to Lions stadium.

BC

Hiring Harbaugh as both would be a great way to avoid his past issue of friction with the GM.  ;-)

[Goose]

On the bright side, the Lions just fired their coach and GM, so it would only be a 40 minute commute for him to go from Ann Arbor to Lions stadium.

BC

Hiring Harbaugh as both would be a great way to avoid his past issue of friction with the GM.  ;-)

Saves money too. The real positive is that no matter who takes the job(s), the Lions will still be a bad team.

[Goose]

On the bright side, the Lions just fired their coach and GM, so it would only be a 40 minute commute for him to go from Ann Arbor to Lions stadium.

BC

Hiring Harbaugh as both would be a great way to avoid his past issue of friction with the GM.  ;-)

Saves money too. The real positive is that no matter who takes the job(s), the Lions will still be a bad team.

[Mick]

On the bright side, the Lions just fired their coach and GM, so it would only be a 40 minute commute for him to go from Ann Arbor to Lions stadium.

BC

Hiring Harbaugh as both would be a great way to avoid his past issue of friction with the GM.  ;-)

Saves money too. The real positive is that no matter who takes the job(s), the Lions will still be a bad team.

When Harbaugh was still coach of the 49ers (during the 8-8 season), Brent Jones was on KNBR, and the host (I think it was Barbieri) asked Jones if he would want to play for Harbaugh and Jones said something like "Sometimes."  He said it with a laugh in his voice, but he basically said that Harbaugh's act wore pretty thin in the pros, and the EUTM stuff worked in college -- barely.  He said most pros wouldn't stand for it for more than a season.  And Jones said all of this while Harbaugh was still the coach of the 49ers!!

[Mick]

On the bright side, the Lions just fired their coach and GM, so it would only be a 40 minute commute for him to go from Ann Arbor to Lions stadium.

BC

Hiring Harbaugh as both would be a great way to avoid his past issue of friction with the GM.  ;-)

Saves money too. The real positive is that no matter who takes the job(s), the Lions will still be a bad team.

When Harbaugh was still coach of the 49ers (during the 8-8 season), Brent Jones was on KNBR, and the host (I think it was Barbieri) asked Jones if he would want to play for Harbaugh and Jones said something like "Sometimes."  He said it with a laugh in his voice, but he basically said that Harbaugh's act wore pretty thin in the pros, and the EUTM stuff worked in college -- barely.  He said most pros wouldn't stand for it for more than a season.  And Jones said all of this while Harbaugh was still the coach of the 49ers!!

[PAsportsfan]

On the bright side, the Lions just fired their coach and GM, so it would only be a 40 minute commute for him to go from Ann Arbor to Lions stadium.

BC

Hiring Harbaugh as both would be a great way to avoid his past issue of friction with the GM.  ;-)

Saves money too. The real positive is that no matter who takes the job(s), the Lions will still be a bad team.

When Harbaugh was still coach of the 49ers (during the 8-8 season), Brent Jones was on KNBR, and the host (I think it was Barbieri) asked Jones if he would want to play for Harbaugh and Jones said something like "Sometimes."  He said it with a laugh in his voice, but he basically said that Harbaugh's act wore pretty thin in the pros, and the EUTM stuff worked in college -- barely.  He said most pros wouldn't stand for it for more than a season.  And Jones said all of this while Harbaugh was still the coach of the 49ers!!

I know Harbaugh had BJ speak to the team at practice while at Stanford. BJ’s daughter was dating a Stanford player at the time. Maybe married now???

[PAsportsfan]

On the bright side, the Lions just fired their coach and GM, so it would only be a 40 minute commute for him to go from Ann Arbor to Lions stadium.

BC

Hiring Harbaugh as both would be a great way to avoid his past issue of friction with the GM.  ;-)

Saves money too. The real positive is that no matter who takes the job(s), the Lions will still be a bad team.

When Harbaugh was still coach of the 49ers (during the 8-8 season), Brent Jones was on KNBR, and the host (I think it was Barbieri) asked Jones if he would want to play for Harbaugh and Jones said something like "Sometimes."  He said it with a laugh in his voice, but he basically said that Harbaugh's act wore pretty thin in the pros, and the EUTM stuff worked in college -- barely.  He said most pros wouldn't stand for it for more than a season.  And Jones said all of this while Harbaugh was still the coach of the 49ers!!

I know Harbaugh had BJ speak to the team at practice while at Stanford. BJ’s daughter was dating a Stanford player at the time. Maybe married now???

[teejers1]

Michigan should not be a tough place to recruit.  It’s an excellent school, great facilities, one of the most famous venues in US.  My question is if players have quit on him.

A legit question.  I didn't see any of the game and only have read stuff here; still, that was the first question that crossed my mind.  It's one thing to put up with Harbs' over-the-top BS when you're resurrecting/winning, but when you start losing it just becomes annoying as hell.  I have a feeling that even if the team isn't tired of Harbaugh's act, a lot of alumni and folks in Michigan's athletic department are.

[teejers1]

Michigan should not be a tough place to recruit.  It’s an excellent school, great facilities, one of the most famous venues in US.  My question is if players have quit on him.

A legit question.  I didn't see any of the game and only have read stuff here; still, that was the first question that crossed my mind.  It's one thing to put up with Harbs' over-the-top BS when you're resurrecting/winning, but when you start losing it just becomes annoying as hell.  I have a feeling that even if the team isn't tired of Harbaugh's act, a lot of alumni and folks in Michigan's athletic department are.

[thatboy]

Michigan should not be a tough place to recruit.  It’s an excellent school, great facilities, one of the most famous venues in US.  My question is if players have quit on him.

A legit question.  I didn't see any of the game and only have read stuff here; still, that was the first question that crossed my mind.  It's one thing to put up with Harbs' over-the-top BS when you're resurrecting/winning, but when you start losing it just becomes annoying as hell.  I have a feeling that even if the team isn't tired of Harbaugh's act, a lot of alumni and folks in Michigan's athletic department are.

I’ve heard allusions to his antics for many years but I don’t think anyone has ever really elaborated. It seems to be some sort of thing only insiders know. Can someone give an idea of the sorts of things does that annoys people so much? Thanks

[thatboy]

Michigan should not be a tough place to recruit.  It’s an excellent school, great facilities, one of the most famous venues in US.  My question is if players have quit on him.

A legit question.  I didn't see any of the game and only have read stuff here; still, that was the first question that crossed my mind.  It's one thing to put up with Harbs' over-the-top BS when you're resurrecting/winning, but when you start losing it just becomes annoying as hell.  I have a feeling that even if the team isn't tired of Harbaugh's act, a lot of alumni and folks in Michigan's athletic department are.

I’ve heard allusions to his antics for many years but I don’t think anyone has ever really elaborated. It seems to be some sort of thing only insiders know. Can someone give an idea of the sorts of things does that annoys people so much? Thanks

[JohnR34231]

Michigan should not be a tough place to recruit.  It’s an excellent school, great facilities, one of the most famous venues in US.  My question is if players have quit on him.

A legit question.  I didn't see any of the game and only have read stuff here; still, that was the first question that crossed my mind.  It's one thing to put up with Harbs' over-the-top BS when you're resurrecting/winning, but when you start losing it just becomes annoying as hell.  I have a feeling that even if the team isn't tired of Harbaugh's act, a lot of alumni and folks in Michigan's athletic department are.

I’ve heard allusions to his antics for many years but I don’t think anyone has ever really elaborated. It seems to be some sort of thing only insiders know. Can someone give an idea of the sorts of things does that annoys people so much? Thanks

Well, Shaw commented once that "Jim is always going 120 miles an hour. He wears people out".

[JohnR34231]

Michigan should not be a tough place to recruit.  It’s an excellent school, great facilities, one of the most famous venues in US.  My question is if players have quit on him.

A legit question.  I didn't see any of the game and only have read stuff here; still, that was the first question that crossed my mind.  It's one thing to put up with Harbs' over-the-top BS when you're resurrecting/winning, but when you start losing it just becomes annoying as hell.  I have a feeling that even if the team isn't tired of Harbaugh's act, a lot of alumni and folks in Michigan's athletic department are.

I’ve heard allusions to his antics for many years but I don’t think anyone has ever really elaborated. It seems to be some sort of thing only insiders know. Can someone give an idea of the sorts of things does that annoys people so much? Thanks

Well, Shaw commented once that "Jim is always going 120 miles an hour. He wears people out".

[fanofourforebears]

and PSU wins 27-17

The announcers were discussing JH's future. They said:
1. He can go back to the NFL if he wants. The question is does he.
2. While he hasn't done what he was supposed to do at Michigan, he still has done pretty well. Can Michigan get anyone who will do better? Is Michigan that attractive a gig any more?
3. They probably need to make a decision on extending his contract before it starts hampering recruiting.

Stanford and Andrew Luck made all the difference in Harbaugh's rise.  He has not been able to recruit another "Luck" and he still has not put a staff together that in my opinion approaches his staff during his last year at Stanford.  In regards to recruiting, Stanford attracts the elite athletes that could qualify for admission better than any college and certainly maybe even far better than Michigan.  He should have let DMac QB the team this year.  Maybe replacing Smith with Kap was more on him than on the GM when with the 49'ers?  And.. then there is the problems for many teams this year due to the response to the pandemic.  Harbaugh is not alone in having problems with coaching and preparation.

[fanofourforebears]

and PSU wins 27-17

The announcers were discussing JH's future. They said:
1. He can go back to the NFL if he wants. The question is does he.
2. While he hasn't done what he was supposed to do at Michigan, he still has done pretty well. Can Michigan get anyone who will do better? Is Michigan that attractive a gig any more?
3. They probably need to make a decision on extending his contract before it starts hampering recruiting.

Stanford and Andrew Luck made all the difference in Harbaugh's rise.  He has not been able to recruit another "Luck" and he still has not put a staff together that in my opinion approaches his staff during his last year at Stanford.  In regards to recruiting, Stanford attracts the elite athletes that could qualify for admission better than any college and certainly maybe even far better than Michigan.  He should have let DMac QB the team this year.  Maybe replacing Smith with Kap was more on him than on the GM when with the 49'ers?  And.. then there is the problems for many teams this year due to the response to the pandemic.  Harbaugh is not alone in having problems with coaching and preparation.

[BostonCard]

Michigan should not be a tough place to recruit.  It’s an excellent school, great facilities, one of the most famous venues in US.  My question is if players have quit on him.

A legit question.  I didn't see any of the game and only have read stuff here; still, that was the first question that crossed my mind.  It's one thing to put up with Harbs' over-the-top BS when you're resurrecting/winning, but when you start losing it just becomes annoying as hell.  I have a feeling that even if the team isn't tired of Harbaugh's act, a lot of alumni and folks in Michigan's athletic department are.

I’ve heard allusions to his antics for many years but I don’t think anyone has ever really elaborated. It seems to be some sort of thing only insiders know. Can someone give an idea of the sorts of things does that annoys people so much? Thanks

Think of his trademarked “Enthusiasm Unknown to Mankind”.  It’s easy to be enthusiastic when you have a new coach and he’s taken a team that has sucked and has it upset the number 1 team in the country.  But that is hard to sustain year after year after year, especially if you don’t have anything to show for it.  Hard to be too enthusiastic let alone display EUTM when you lose to Ohio State every year.

Some specific examples:
The remodeling of the coaches bathroom
The interview about Carroll before the SC game
Being out there and running wind sprints with the team
Camping out in a recruit’s backyard 

These things all land well when you are winning but fall flat when you are not.

BC

[BostonCard]

Michigan should not be a tough place to recruit.  It’s an excellent school, great facilities, one of the most famous venues in US.  My question is if players have quit on him.

A legit question.  I didn't see any of the game and only have read stuff here; still, that was the first question that crossed my mind.  It's one thing to put up with Harbs' over-the-top BS when you're resurrecting/winning, but when you start losing it just becomes annoying as hell.  I have a feeling that even if the team isn't tired of Harbaugh's act, a lot of alumni and folks in Michigan's athletic department are.

I’ve heard allusions to his antics for many years but I don’t think anyone has ever really elaborated. It seems to be some sort of thing only insiders know. Can someone give an idea of the sorts of things does that annoys people so much? Thanks

Think of his trademarked “Enthusiasm Unknown to Mankind”.  It’s easy to be enthusiastic when you have a new coach and he’s taken a team that has sucked and has it upset the number 1 team in the country.  But that is hard to sustain year after year after year, especially if you don’t have anything to show for it.  Hard to be too enthusiastic let alone display EUTM when you lose to Ohio State every year.

Some specific examples:
The remodeling of the coaches bathroom
The interview about Carroll before the SC game
Being out there and running wind sprints with the team
Camping out in a recruit’s backyard 

These things all land well when you are winning but fall flat when you are not.

BC

[Phogge]

There was more than Luck involved. He at least Ok’d Sherm’s move to defense. He brought in some nasty defenders. He had a pulse no matter the level which Teevens and Wlat didn’t have. God knows how many Rose Bowls Ralston and Walsh would have had if they had stayed. Like him or not Harbaugh would have gotten there too.

[Phogge]

There was more than Luck involved. He at least Ok’d Sherm’s move to defense. He brought in some nasty defenders. He had a pulse no matter the level which Teevens and Wlat didn’t have. God knows how many Rose Bowls Ralston and Walsh would have had if they had stayed. Like him or not Harbaugh would have gotten there too.

[BostonCard]

There was more than Luck involved. He at least Ok’d Sherm’s move to defense. He brought in some nasty defenders. He had a pulse no matter the level which Teevens and Wlat didn’t have. God knows how many Rose Bowls Ralston and Walsh would have had if they had stayed. Like him or not Harbaugh would have gotten there too.

Agree with you on the team attitude, but Sherman (and Baldwin) flourished despite Harbaugh, not because of him.  Today, Sherman would have been a grad transfer.

But yeah, the elite defenses we had in 2010, 2012, and 2013 are largely guys Harbaugh brought in who, recruiting accolades aside, seem to have a qualitatively different attitude towards the game than the ones on the field today.

BC

[BostonCard]

There was more than Luck involved. He at least Ok’d Sherm’s move to defense. He brought in some nasty defenders. He had a pulse no matter the level which Teevens and Wlat didn’t have. God knows how many Rose Bowls Ralston and Walsh would have had if they had stayed. Like him or not Harbaugh would have gotten there too.

Agree with you on the team attitude, but Sherman (and Baldwin) flourished despite Harbaugh, not because of him.  Today, Sherman would have been a grad transfer.

But yeah, the elite defenses we had in 2010, 2012, and 2013 are largely guys Harbaugh brought in who, recruiting accolades aside, seem to have a qualitatively different attitude towards the game than the ones on the field today.

BC

[lex24]

There was more than Luck involved. He at least Ok’d Sherm’s move to defense. He brought in some nasty defenders. He had a pulse no matter the level which Teevens and Wlat didn’t have. God knows how many Rose Bowls Ralston and Walsh would have had if they had stayed. Like him or not Harbaugh would have gotten there too.

Not so sure, Phogge.  It wasn’t just Sherman and Baldwin. How long he could keep things going with his obvious problem “playing with others” is the question.  He was never going to last long at Stanford.

[lex24]

There was more than Luck involved. He at least Ok’d Sherm’s move to defense. He brought in some nasty defenders. He had a pulse no matter the level which Teevens and Wlat didn’t have. God knows how many Rose Bowls Ralston and Walsh would have had if they had stayed. Like him or not Harbaugh would have gotten there too.

Not so sure, Phogge.  It wasn’t just Sherman and Baldwin. How long he could keep things going with his obvious problem “playing with others” is the question.  He was never going to last long at Stanford.

[BigJohn043]

I generally think people over estimate the importance of the head coaches and under estimate the importance of the assistants.  At Stanford, one of the things Harbaugh did really well was continually bring in really high quality assistants many of who had substantial NFL experience.  This was really important in our success and FWIW he put together a high quality staff at the Niners as well.

Look at the MI staff.  The OC & DC are both long time college guys with no NFL experience and no apparent past relationship with JH.  I think that is a big part of his problem.

As coaches get successful, some start to believe their press and think that they are the key to success.  I think that is what has happened to JH and frankly to Shaw as well.  JH has the problem that he is well known to be crazy and I am not sure really top people want to work with him anymore.  Shaws problem is hubris and ego.

Compare those two with Saban.  Saban continually loses assistants but reinvests in high quality guys.

There is a lesson here....

[BigJohn043]

I generally think people over estimate the importance of the head coaches and under estimate the importance of the assistants.  At Stanford, one of the things Harbaugh did really well was continually bring in really high quality assistants many of who had substantial NFL experience.  This was really important in our success and FWIW he put together a high quality staff at the Niners as well.

Look at the MI staff.  The OC & DC are both long time college guys with no NFL experience and no apparent past relationship with JH.  I think that is a big part of his problem.

As coaches get successful, some start to believe their press and think that they are the key to success.  I think that is what has happened to JH and frankly to Shaw as well.  JH has the problem that he is well known to be crazy and I am not sure really top people want to work with him anymore.  Shaws problem is hubris and ego.

Compare those two with Saban.  Saban continually loses assistants but reinvests in high quality guys.

There is a lesson here....

[baymeadows3408]

I generally think people over estimate the importance of the head coaches and under estimate the importance of the assistants.  At Stanford, one of the things Harbaugh did really well was continually bring in really high quality assistants many of who had substantial NFL experience.  This was really important in our success and FWIW he put together a high quality staff at the Niners as well.

Look at the MI staff.  The OC & DC are both long time college guys with no NFL experience and no apparent past relationship with JH.  I think that is a big part of his problem.

As coaches get successful, some start to believe their press and think that they are the key to success.  I think that is what has happened to JH and frankly to Shaw as well.  JH has the problem that he is well known to be crazy and I am not sure really top people want to work with him anymore.  Shaws problem is hubris and ego.

Compare those two with Saban.  Saban continually loses assistants but reinvests in high quality guys.

There is a lesson here....

Yeah, I think Harbaugh had the right connections to bring in NFL-level assistants to Stanford. Retention was going to be a problem because I think a lot of them were using Stanford as a stopgap, but it became a moot point when Harbaugh left and took a lot of the assistants with him. I don't know enough about Shaw to comment on the quality of his network, but he hires a lot from within and I do think an infusion of new ideas would benefit the program.

[baymeadows3408]

I generally think people over estimate the importance of the head coaches and under estimate the importance of the assistants.  At Stanford, one of the things Harbaugh did really well was continually bring in really high quality assistants many of who had substantial NFL experience.  This was really important in our success and FWIW he put together a high quality staff at the Niners as well.

Look at the MI staff.  The OC & DC are both long time college guys with no NFL experience and no apparent past relationship with JH.  I think that is a big part of his problem.

As coaches get successful, some start to believe their press and think that they are the key to success.  I think that is what has happened to JH and frankly to Shaw as well.  JH has the problem that he is well known to be crazy and I am not sure really top people want to work with him anymore.  Shaws problem is hubris and ego.

Compare those two with Saban.  Saban continually loses assistants but reinvests in high quality guys.

There is a lesson here....

Yeah, I think Harbaugh had the right connections to bring in NFL-level assistants to Stanford. Retention was going to be a problem because I think a lot of them were using Stanford as a stopgap, but it became a moot point when Harbaugh left and took a lot of the assistants with him. I don't know enough about Shaw to comment on the quality of his network, but he hires a lot from within and I do think an infusion of new ideas would benefit the program.

[BobK]

Stanford has 10 assistant coaches. 3 were hired or came with Harbaugh 7 were hired by Shaw from the outside

[BobK]

Stanford has 10 assistant coaches. 3 were hired or came with Harbaugh 7 were hired by Shaw from the outside