[OutsiderFan]

Sports are being shutdown in Santa Clara County.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/fiona_kelliher/status/1332789979433545732[/tweet]

[OutsiderFan]

Sports are being shutdown in Santa Clara County.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/fiona_kelliher/status/1332789979433545732[/tweet]

[M T]

Sports are being shutdown in Santa Clara County.

  OF:  I suggest a more informative subject.

Not yet on SCC web site (1:53PM).  
The Mercury News article indicates this takes effect at 12:01AM Monday, thus blocking the WBB game, lasting until at least Dec. 21.

a temporary ban on all high school, collegiate and professional contact sports, a mandatory quarantine for those traveling into the region from more than 150 miles away and new capacity limits for indoor businesses.

The ban includes games and practices. The article also mentions a curfew 10PM-5AM for non-essential travel, but it wasn't 100% clear whether that was for SCC or some other area.

For the record, while this is disappointing for Tara breaking Pat Summit's record and for the teams (esp. for #2 WBB), I support this, if the Merc is correct.

[M T]

Sports are being shutdown in Santa Clara County.

  OF:  I suggest a more informative subject.

Not yet on SCC web site (1:53PM).  
The Mercury News article indicates this takes effect at 12:01AM Monday, thus blocking the WBB game, lasting until at least Dec. 21.

a temporary ban on all high school, collegiate and professional contact sports, a mandatory quarantine for those traveling into the region from more than 150 miles away and new capacity limits for indoor businesses.

The ban includes games and practices. The article also mentions a curfew 10PM-5AM for non-essential travel, but it wasn't 100% clear whether that was for SCC or some other area.

For the record, while this is disappointing for Tara breaking Pat Summit's record and for the teams (esp. for #2 WBB), I support this, if the Merc is correct.

[teejers1]

Sports are being shutdown in Santa Clara County.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/fiona_kelliher/status/1332789979433545732[/tweet]

Dear Bureaucrat strikes again - much to the glee of some; much to the chagrin of others.  I lean toward the latter camp.

BTW, capacity took a bit hit, even though Covid patients the same the last couple days and "other patients" went down by 100.  Think it goes to MT's earlier post about what numbers they're using as baseline for capacity.

P.S.  How in the world are you ever going to even attempt to enforce a 14 day quarantine for those arriving from out of the county?  Is there going to be a checkpoint in I-5?  Highway 101?
I mean, seriously . . .
[

[teejers1]

Sports are being shutdown in Santa Clara County.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/fiona_kelliher/status/1332789979433545732[/tweet]

Dear Bureaucrat strikes again - much to the glee of some; much to the chagrin of others.  I lean toward the latter camp.

BTW, capacity took a bit hit, even though Covid patients the same the last couple days and "other patients" went down by 100.  Think it goes to MT's earlier post about what numbers they're using as baseline for capacity.

P.S.  How in the world are you ever going to even attempt to enforce a 14 day quarantine for those arriving from out of the county?  Is there going to be a checkpoint in I-5?  Highway 101?
I mean, seriously . . .
[

[lex24]

My question is simple:  How does this help slow the spread?  The Niners are essentially in a bubble. And I suspect Stanford is as well.  

So - what does this achieve?

As for the 150 mile rule. It’s essentially unenforceable, as a Teejers suggests. It is also dubious Constitutionally. But no one will challenge.

I think the Curfew is statewide.

[lex24]

My question is simple:  How does this help slow the spread?  The Niners are essentially in a bubble. And I suspect Stanford is as well.  

So - what does this achieve?

As for the 150 mile rule. It’s essentially unenforceable, as a Teejers suggests. It is also dubious Constitutionally. But no one will challenge.

I think the Curfew is statewide.

[OutsiderFan]

I don't know if these restrictions will work, but apparently SCC announced 760 new Covid cases today. That's on the heels of over 500 on Friday.  There were also 59 new hospitalizations. Hospital capacity is down to 18%. I would argue the restrictions are justified, because we have to do anything possible to slow spread.

This is why I stayed home, didn't get together with my family, and did Zoom on Thanksgiving.  Seriously, F*CK everyone who thought "you can't stay away from your family for Thanksgiving."  It's one goddamned year of foregoing gatherings to make sure more people live and don't get sick. Part of this is protecting our health care workers and medical system so non-Covid issues don't become lethal.

[OutsiderFan]

I don't know if these restrictions will work, but apparently SCC announced 760 new Covid cases today. That's on the heels of over 500 on Friday.  There were also 59 new hospitalizations. Hospital capacity is down to 18%. I would argue the restrictions are justified, because we have to do anything possible to slow spread.

This is why I stayed home, didn't get together with my family, and did Zoom on Thanksgiving.  Seriously, F*CK everyone who thought "you can't stay away from your family for Thanksgiving."  It's one goddamned year of foregoing gatherings to make sure more people live and don't get sick. Part of this is protecting our health care workers and medical system so non-Covid issues don't become lethal.

[Snorlax94]

The next game is at Washington. Can the team practice in San Mateo then play in Washington? Or heck, just fly up to Seattle now?

I personally don’t see the benefit in this. I don’t think broadcast sports make people any more careless (and other games will be on anyway) and am not aware that any local college or pro team has contributed significantly to spread.

I do think the local cases are going to lead to horrific illness and deaths, and would be in favor of an earlier curfew, road checks, Restrictions on in-store shopping, and other stricter measures, but I want steps that will be effective. Youth sports organizations are getting away with murder with the crowded fields I see every day at local parks and fields, often without any masks or safety measures.

Sigh. At least there was enough time to get The Axe.

[Snorlax94]

The next game is at Washington. Can the team practice in San Mateo then play in Washington? Or heck, just fly up to Seattle now?

I personally don’t see the benefit in this. I don’t think broadcast sports make people any more careless (and other games will be on anyway) and am not aware that any local college or pro team has contributed significantly to spread.

I do think the local cases are going to lead to horrific illness and deaths, and would be in favor of an earlier curfew, road checks, Restrictions on in-store shopping, and other stricter measures, but I want steps that will be effective. Youth sports organizations are getting away with murder with the crowded fields I see every day at local parks and fields, often without any masks or safety measures.

Sigh. At least there was enough time to get The Axe.

[Farm93]

The next game is at Washington. Can the team practice in San Mateo then play in Washington? Or heck, just fly up to Seattle now?

I personally don’t see the benefit in this. I don’t think broadcast sports make people any more careless (and other games will be on anyway) and am not aware that any local college or pro team has contributed significantly to spread.

I do think the local cases are going to lead to horrific illness and deaths, and would be in favor of an earlier curfew, road checks, Restrictions on in-store shopping,  and other stricter measures, but I want steps that will be effective. Youth sports organizations are getting away with murder with the crowded fields I see every day at local parks and fields, often without any masks or safety measures.

Sigh. At least there was enough time to get The Axe.

The Stanford football for at UW might work but is a big problem for the other sports.   Given almost everything is remote Stanford AD could relocate some teams to a different state which is something schools in parts of the Southwest have started to do recently for football.  Las Vegas casinos have lots of nice and now rarely used facilities.

The issue with sports, IMHO, is never the sport.   It is, and has been, the logistics behind the sports.
To get a football team of 60-80 players to a venue requires a lot more than most casual fans understand.   
A team will usually have a truck, or two or more of equipment.   The locker room, the coach box and other things usually are set up with a large group of workers from the team and the stadium.  The players, coaches and team support staff are likely to stay at hotels, and eat at restaurants.  All of that creates chances for spread.   It is not just the game, it is all of the behind the scenes things that COVID loves.

For those that haven't visited COVID-19 tracking sites, the SF Bay Area is now a virtual island of limited COVID spread.   The pro and college teams that college and pro teams might typically play would come from states with significant outbreaks right now.

Hospital capacity is important but it remains a lagging indicator.   Health care officials have much better leading indicators at their disposal.   My assumption is that some of those indicators have drifted into troubling territory recently.  The shockingly high rate of Thanksgiving travel is likely in the mix of indicators FWIW.   The forecasts likely do not get better by having hundreds of people coming to the SF Bay Area from IA, UT, CO, ND, SD, NM or other places with problems to play, or support, sports with locals. 

Keeping schools open?    Worth the risk
Keeping restaurants open?  Hmmm, a lot of jobs there so I understand
Keeping bars and casinos open?  Definitely no
Keeping sports?  I love college sports, but honestly for a society sports should be first to go.

If stopping sports helps keep schools open then stop the pro and college sports.

[Farm93]

The next game is at Washington. Can the team practice in San Mateo then play in Washington? Or heck, just fly up to Seattle now?

I personally don’t see the benefit in this. I don’t think broadcast sports make people any more careless (and other games will be on anyway) and am not aware that any local college or pro team has contributed significantly to spread.

I do think the local cases are going to lead to horrific illness and deaths, and would be in favor of an earlier curfew, road checks, Restrictions on in-store shopping,  and other stricter measures, but I want steps that will be effective. Youth sports organizations are getting away with murder with the crowded fields I see every day at local parks and fields, often without any masks or safety measures.

Sigh. At least there was enough time to get The Axe.

The Stanford football for at UW might work but is a big problem for the other sports.   Given almost everything is remote Stanford AD could relocate some teams to a different state which is something schools in parts of the Southwest have started to do recently for football.  Las Vegas casinos have lots of nice and now rarely used facilities.

The issue with sports, IMHO, is never the sport.   It is, and has been, the logistics behind the sports.
To get a football team of 60-80 players to a venue requires a lot more than most casual fans understand.   
A team will usually have a truck, or two or more of equipment.   The locker room, the coach box and other things usually are set up with a large group of workers from the team and the stadium.  The players, coaches and team support staff are likely to stay at hotels, and eat at restaurants.  All of that creates chances for spread.   It is not just the game, it is all of the behind the scenes things that COVID loves.

For those that haven't visited COVID-19 tracking sites, the SF Bay Area is now a virtual island of limited COVID spread.   The pro and college teams that college and pro teams might typically play would come from states with significant outbreaks right now.

Hospital capacity is important but it remains a lagging indicator.   Health care officials have much better leading indicators at their disposal.   My assumption is that some of those indicators have drifted into troubling territory recently.  The shockingly high rate of Thanksgiving travel is likely in the mix of indicators FWIW.   The forecasts likely do not get better by having hundreds of people coming to the SF Bay Area from IA, UT, CO, ND, SD, NM or other places with problems to play, or support, sports with locals. 

Keeping schools open?    Worth the risk
Keeping restaurants open?  Hmmm, a lot of jobs there so I understand
Keeping bars and casinos open?  Definitely no
Keeping sports?  I love college sports, but honestly for a society sports should be first to go.

If stopping sports helps keep schools open then stop the pro and college sports.

[M T]

The SCC press release indicates the quarantine is on people returning to the county "from travel of more than 150 miles".

a new Mandatory Directive on Travel will require people to quarantine for 14 days upon return to the County from travel of more than 150 miles.

As I read it, 75 miles out and 75 miles back will hit that threshold.  The PR doesn't except essential travel.

Hotels and other lodging facilities will be open only for essential travel and for use to facilitate isolation or quarantine.

That will prevent inbound travel (such as for sports teams).

[M T]

The SCC press release indicates the quarantine is on people returning to the county "from travel of more than 150 miles".

a new Mandatory Directive on Travel will require people to quarantine for 14 days upon return to the County from travel of more than 150 miles.

As I read it, 75 miles out and 75 miles back will hit that threshold.  The PR doesn't except essential travel.

Hotels and other lodging facilities will be open only for essential travel and for use to facilitate isolation or quarantine.

That will prevent inbound travel (such as for sports teams).

[lex24]

Arbitrary is the word that comes to mind. Why 150 miles?  Is the transmission rate significantly worse beyond 150.  

I would like to hear the scientific support and/or factual support for the action.  And I mean specifics.  Not the general litany that is set forth in the Orders.

---

“The issue with sports, IMHO, is never the sport.  It is, and has been, the logistics behind the sports.
To get a football team of 60-80 players to a venue requires a lot more than most casual fans understand. 


From Farm 93:

“A team will usually have a truck, or two or more of equipment.  The locker room, the coach box and other things usually are set up with a large group of workers from the team and the stadium.  The players, coaches and team support staff are likely to stay at hotels, and eat at restaurants.  All of that creates chances for spread.  It is not just the game, it is all of the behind the scenes things that COVID loves.”


Agree.  But I have seen no evidence that College or Pro sports in SCC has contributed to the spread. How many people are actively involved in Stanford sports right now - including practicing  etc. How many in that group have tested positive.  How does that compare to the “general population”. Age group specifically.  Same question for 49ers. 

And then - from those that did test positive, how many have they infected. One thing we know is contact tracing certainly occurs when anyone connected with the team does test positive.  

I don’t think there is anything grounded in science or fact in this instance. If I’m wrong, show me the evidence. Otherwise, I think this is a gross overreach.

[lex24]

Arbitrary is the word that comes to mind. Why 150 miles?  Is the transmission rate significantly worse beyond 150.  

I would like to hear the scientific support and/or factual support for the action.  And I mean specifics.  Not the general litany that is set forth in the Orders.

---

“The issue with sports, IMHO, is never the sport.  It is, and has been, the logistics behind the sports.
To get a football team of 60-80 players to a venue requires a lot more than most casual fans understand. 


From Farm 93:

“A team will usually have a truck, or two or more of equipment.  The locker room, the coach box and other things usually are set up with a large group of workers from the team and the stadium.  The players, coaches and team support staff are likely to stay at hotels, and eat at restaurants.  All of that creates chances for spread.  It is not just the game, it is all of the behind the scenes things that COVID loves.”


Agree.  But I have seen no evidence that College or Pro sports in SCC has contributed to the spread. How many people are actively involved in Stanford sports right now - including practicing  etc. How many in that group have tested positive.  How does that compare to the “general population”. Age group specifically.  Same question for 49ers. 

And then - from those that did test positive, how many have they infected. One thing we know is contact tracing certainly occurs when anyone connected with the team does test positive.  

I don’t think there is anything grounded in science or fact in this instance. If I’m wrong, show me the evidence. Otherwise, I think this is a gross overreach.

[BostonCard]

Remember that what you are seeing now reflects transmissions from a week ago, so things will likely continue to get worse.  LA went into a modified lockdown (excepting religious services, no doubt on account of the recent US Supreme Court decision on the matter in New York and protests).

BC

[BostonCard]

Remember that what you are seeing now reflects transmissions from a week ago, so things will likely continue to get worse.  LA went into a modified lockdown (excepting religious services, no doubt on account of the recent US Supreme Court decision on the matter in New York and protests).

BC

[M T]

Arbitrary is the word that comes to mind. Why 150 miles?  Is the transmission rate significantly worse beyond 150.  

I would like to hear the scientific support and/or factual support for the action.  And I mean specifics.  Not the general litany that is set forth in the Orders.

The reason is given in the first paragraph of the county's press release.  You may disagree with whether the restrictions are effective or not for the intended purpose, but this is the reason.

The number of Santa Clara County residents contracting COVID-19 and the number of patients hospitalized with COVID-19 continues to rise significantly, reaching record levels.  As of today, there were 760 new cases of COVID-19 and 239 COVID-related hospitalizations, 71 of whom are in the ICU.  Both the number of new cases and COVID-related hospitalizations set new records for the highest single-day counts since the outset of the pandemic.  To reduce the likelihood of a surge in hospitalizations that would exceed the capacity of hospitals in the county, the Health Officer is announcing several changes to the Mandatory Directives that accompany the Public Health Officer’s Risk Reduction Order.

(I added the emphasis to highlight the reason stated.)

We are effectively in a shutdown between regions.  Some clearly non-essential activities have been shutdown.
My expectation is that this shutdown will continue until the new year.

This shutdown wasn't in place for Thanksgiving but I expect it was designed to stop the blowup that would happen with Christmas season, between families getting together and people traveling to go skiing.

P.S.  As I read it, travel is 150 miles indicates a round trip to somewhere 75 miles away.  Monterey is just over that limit.

[M T]

Arbitrary is the word that comes to mind. Why 150 miles?  Is the transmission rate significantly worse beyond 150.  

I would like to hear the scientific support and/or factual support for the action.  And I mean specifics.  Not the general litany that is set forth in the Orders.

The reason is given in the first paragraph of the county's press release.  You may disagree with whether the restrictions are effective or not for the intended purpose, but this is the reason.

The number of Santa Clara County residents contracting COVID-19 and the number of patients hospitalized with COVID-19 continues to rise significantly, reaching record levels.  As of today, there were 760 new cases of COVID-19 and 239 COVID-related hospitalizations, 71 of whom are in the ICU.  Both the number of new cases and COVID-related hospitalizations set new records for the highest single-day counts since the outset of the pandemic.  To reduce the likelihood of a surge in hospitalizations that would exceed the capacity of hospitals in the county, the Health Officer is announcing several changes to the Mandatory Directives that accompany the Public Health Officer’s Risk Reduction Order.

(I added the emphasis to highlight the reason stated.)

We are effectively in a shutdown between regions.  Some clearly non-essential activities have been shutdown.
My expectation is that this shutdown will continue until the new year.

This shutdown wasn't in place for Thanksgiving but I expect it was designed to stop the blowup that would happen with Christmas season, between families getting together and people traveling to go skiing.

P.S.  As I read it, travel is 150 miles indicates a round trip to somewhere 75 miles away.  Monterey is just over that limit.

[BostonCard]

150 miles is about the limit of most Bay Area counties.  As a practical matter, lots of people commute within the Bay, so you couldn’t make the limit to Santa Clara county or you would de facto force them to stay home.

BC

[BostonCard]

150 miles is about the limit of most Bay Area counties.  As a practical matter, lots of people commute within the Bay, so you couldn’t make the limit to Santa Clara county or you would de facto force them to stay home.

BC

[lex24]

Remember that what you are seeing now reflects transmissions from a week ago, so things will likely continue to get worse.  LA went into a modified lockdown (excepting religious services, no doubt on account of the recent US Supreme Court decision on the matter in New York and protests).

BC

Understand.   But I repeat where is the scientific or factual evidence that pro or college sports without fans in the stands have been a contributor to the spread. Heck, Santa Clara county right now has the highest rate in the bay area. Perhaps the other counties should ban any travel to their county from anybody from Santa Clara County....

 Again, this just smacks of arbitrary of doing something or trying to show that they are doing something.

As for LA County and religious services, as I understand the USSC’s NY ruling, it is simply that you cant impose more stringent requirements on religious activities than in secular activities. So if I am in LA County, the first thing I do is take out anything in any of my orders about “protests.“ There is absolutely no reason for them to take a position on protests anyway. They are going to happen organically for lack of a better word if and when they do. Next, I can impose I believe limitations on the number of people at a place of worship (and the length of the service) as long as it’s not more restrictive to similar standards in “essential“ activities. So if you’re limiting the number of people that may can go into stores and the amount of time they can be there – I think you may make the same for religious worship. That only 10 people (in some areas, 25 in others) could attend worship, while unlimited or higher numbers could go to stores etc, suggested places of worship were being singled out.

From the opinion: “In a red zone, while a synagogue or church may not admit more than 10 persons, businesses categorized as “essential” may admit as many people as they wish. And the list of “essential” businesses includes things such as acupuncture facilities, camp grounds, garages, as well as many whose services are not limited to those that can be regarded as essential, such as all plants manufacturing chemicals and mi- croelectronics and all transportation facilities. See New York State, Empire State Development, Guidance for De- termining Whether a Business Enterprise is Subject to a Workforce Reduction Under Recent Executive Orders, https://esd.ny.gov/guidance-executive-order-2026. The disparate treatment is even more striking in an orange zone. While attendance at houses of worship is limited to 25 per- sons, even non-essential businesses may decide for them- selves how many persons to admit.”

[lex24]

Remember that what you are seeing now reflects transmissions from a week ago, so things will likely continue to get worse.  LA went into a modified lockdown (excepting religious services, no doubt on account of the recent US Supreme Court decision on the matter in New York and protests).

BC

Understand.   But I repeat where is the scientific or factual evidence that pro or college sports without fans in the stands have been a contributor to the spread. Heck, Santa Clara county right now has the highest rate in the bay area. Perhaps the other counties should ban any travel to their county from anybody from Santa Clara County....

 Again, this just smacks of arbitrary of doing something or trying to show that they are doing something.

As for LA County and religious services, as I understand the USSC’s NY ruling, it is simply that you cant impose more stringent requirements on religious activities than in secular activities. So if I am in LA County, the first thing I do is take out anything in any of my orders about “protests.“ There is absolutely no reason for them to take a position on protests anyway. They are going to happen organically for lack of a better word if and when they do. Next, I can impose I believe limitations on the number of people at a place of worship (and the length of the service) as long as it’s not more restrictive to similar standards in “essential“ activities. So if you’re limiting the number of people that may can go into stores and the amount of time they can be there – I think you may make the same for religious worship. That only 10 people (in some areas, 25 in others) could attend worship, while unlimited or higher numbers could go to stores etc, suggested places of worship were being singled out.

From the opinion: “In a red zone, while a synagogue or church may not admit more than 10 persons, businesses categorized as “essential” may admit as many people as they wish. And the list of “essential” businesses includes things such as acupuncture facilities, camp grounds, garages, as well as many whose services are not limited to those that can be regarded as essential, such as all plants manufacturing chemicals and mi- croelectronics and all transportation facilities. See New York State, Empire State Development, Guidance for De- termining Whether a Business Enterprise is Subject to a Workforce Reduction Under Recent Executive Orders, https://esd.ny.gov/guidance-executive-order-2026. The disparate treatment is even more striking in an orange zone. While attendance at houses of worship is limited to 25 per- sons, even non-essential businesses may decide for them- selves how many persons to admit.”

[OutsiderFan]

Remember that what you are seeing now reflects transmissions from a week ago, so things will likely continue to get worse.  LA went into a modified lockdown (excepting religious services, no doubt on account of the recent US Supreme Court decision on the matter in New York and protests).

BC

Understand.   But I repeat where is the scientific or factual evidence that pro or college sports without fans in the stands have been a contributor to the spread. Heck, Santa Clara county right now has the highest rate in the bay area. Perhaps the other counties should be ban any travel to their county from anybody from Santa Clara County?

 Again, this just smacks of arbitrary of doing something or trying to show that they are doing something.

Let's pretend you were in charge of the health of the citizens of your county. lex.  You are seeing hospital capacity diminish and virus spread is expected to continue as a result of Thanksgiving gatherings. What tools do you have at your disposal? 

If you see the number of teams having virus issues - pro and college - it tells you sports are a spread vector now, because there is so much virus in communities.

[OutsiderFan]

Remember that what you are seeing now reflects transmissions from a week ago, so things will likely continue to get worse.  LA went into a modified lockdown (excepting religious services, no doubt on account of the recent US Supreme Court decision on the matter in New York and protests).

BC

Understand.   But I repeat where is the scientific or factual evidence that pro or college sports without fans in the stands have been a contributor to the spread. Heck, Santa Clara county right now has the highest rate in the bay area. Perhaps the other counties should be ban any travel to their county from anybody from Santa Clara County?

 Again, this just smacks of arbitrary of doing something or trying to show that they are doing something.

Let's pretend you were in charge of the health of the citizens of your county. lex.  You are seeing hospital capacity diminish and virus spread is expected to continue as a result of Thanksgiving gatherings. What tools do you have at your disposal? 

If you see the number of teams having virus issues - pro and college - it tells you sports are a spread vector now, because there is so much virus in communities.

[lex24]

Remember that what you are seeing now reflects transmissions from a week ago, so things will likely continue to get worse.  LA went into a modified lockdown (excepting religious services, no doubt on account of the recent US Supreme Court decision on the matter in New York and protests).

BC

Understand.   But I repeat where is the scientific or factual evidence that pro or college sports without fans in the stands have been a contributor to the spread. Heck, Santa Clara county right now has the highest rate in the bay area. Perhaps the other counties should be ban any travel to their county from anybody from Santa Clara County?

 Again, this just smacks of arbitrary of doing something or trying to show that they are doing something.

Let's pretend you were in charge of the health of the citizens of your county. lex.  You are seeing hospital capacity diminish and virus spread is expected to continue as a result of Thanksgiving gatherings. What tools do you have at your disposal? 

If you see the number of teams having virus issues - pro and college - it tells you sports are a spread vector now, because there is so much virus in communities.

I don’t think Bay Area sports teams and specifically those in Santa Clara county have had any particular virus issue. The 49ers have had a couple on and off. But nothing major in the context of the virus Has SJS had a problem?  Santa Clara?  Stanford?  

 Further, where is the evidence that people coming from outside the county are a major cause of increase within the County.  If the evidence is there - show me.

[lex24]

Remember that what you are seeing now reflects transmissions from a week ago, so things will likely continue to get worse.  LA went into a modified lockdown (excepting religious services, no doubt on account of the recent US Supreme Court decision on the matter in New York and protests).

BC

Understand.   But I repeat where is the scientific or factual evidence that pro or college sports without fans in the stands have been a contributor to the spread. Heck, Santa Clara county right now has the highest rate in the bay area. Perhaps the other counties should be ban any travel to their county from anybody from Santa Clara County?

 Again, this just smacks of arbitrary of doing something or trying to show that they are doing something.

Let's pretend you were in charge of the health of the citizens of your county. lex.  You are seeing hospital capacity diminish and virus spread is expected to continue as a result of Thanksgiving gatherings. What tools do you have at your disposal? 

If you see the number of teams having virus issues - pro and college - it tells you sports are a spread vector now, because there is so much virus in communities.

I don’t think Bay Area sports teams and specifically those in Santa Clara county have had any particular virus issue. The 49ers have had a couple on and off. But nothing major in the context of the virus Has SJS had a problem?  Santa Clara?  Stanford?  

 Further, where is the evidence that people coming from outside the county are a major cause of increase within the County.  If the evidence is there - show me.

[Genuine Realist]

Remember that what you are seeing now reflects transmissions from a week ago, so things will likely continue to get worse.  LA went into a modified lockdown (excepting religious services, no doubt on account of the recent US Supreme Court decision on the matter in New York and protests).

BC

Understand.   But I repeat where is the scientific or factual evidence that pro or college sports without fans in the stands have been a contributor to the spread. Heck, Santa Clara county right now has the highest rate in the bay area. Perhaps the other counties should be ban any travel to their county from anybody from Santa Clara County?

 Again, this just smacks of arbitrary of doing something or trying to show that they are doing something.

Let's pretend you were in charge of the health of the citizens of your county. lex.  You are seeing hospital capacity diminish and virus spread is expected to continue as a result of Thanksgiving gatherings. What tools do you have at your disposal? 

If you see the number of teams having virus issues - pro and college - it tells you sports are a spread vector now, because there is so much virus in communities.

760 cases today, up fully a third from yesterday, hospitalizations way up, too, and the fun is just beginning

I'm very pragmatic. The resurgence probably justifies fairly severe regulations.

But I'd also opine that public resistance probably is due as much to bureaucratic overkill and resulting cynicism as public obstinance.

That said, the crisis is with us, big time, and we have to respond

[Genuine Realist]

Remember that what you are seeing now reflects transmissions from a week ago, so things will likely continue to get worse.  LA went into a modified lockdown (excepting religious services, no doubt on account of the recent US Supreme Court decision on the matter in New York and protests).

BC

Understand.   But I repeat where is the scientific or factual evidence that pro or college sports without fans in the stands have been a contributor to the spread. Heck, Santa Clara county right now has the highest rate in the bay area. Perhaps the other counties should be ban any travel to their county from anybody from Santa Clara County?

 Again, this just smacks of arbitrary of doing something or trying to show that they are doing something.

Let's pretend you were in charge of the health of the citizens of your county. lex.  You are seeing hospital capacity diminish and virus spread is expected to continue as a result of Thanksgiving gatherings. What tools do you have at your disposal? 

If you see the number of teams having virus issues - pro and college - it tells you sports are a spread vector now, because there is so much virus in communities.

760 cases today, up fully a third from yesterday, hospitalizations way up, too, and the fun is just beginning

I'm very pragmatic. The resurgence probably justifies fairly severe regulations.

But I'd also opine that public resistance probably is due as much to bureaucratic overkill and resulting cynicism as public obstinance.

That said, the crisis is with us, big time, and we have to respond

[OutsiderFan]

Remember that what you are seeing now reflects transmissions from a week ago, so things will likely continue to get worse.  LA went into a modified lockdown (excepting religious services, no doubt on account of the recent US Supreme Court decision on the matter in New York and protests).

BC

Understand.   But I repeat where is the scientific or factual evidence that pro or college sports without fans in the stands have been a contributor to the spread. Heck, Santa Clara county right now has the highest rate in the bay area. Perhaps the other counties should be ban any travel to their county from anybody from Santa Clara County?

 Again, this just smacks of arbitrary of doing something or trying to show that they are doing something.

Let's pretend you were in charge of the health of the citizens of your county. lex.  You are seeing hospital capacity diminish and virus spread is expected to continue as a result of Thanksgiving gatherings. What tools do you have at your disposal? 

If you see the number of teams having virus issues - pro and college - it tells you sports are a spread vector now, because there is so much virus in communities.

I don’t think Bay Area sports teams and specifically those in Santa Clara county have had any particular virus issue. The 49ers have had a couple on and off. But nothing major in the context of the virus Has SJS had a problem?  Santa Clara?  Stanford?  

 Further, where is the evidence that people coming from outside the county are a major cause of increase within the County.  If the evidence is there - show me.

You didn't answer the question. What would you do were you in charge of public health in Santa Clara County, and you knew the epidemiology of the situation, and the hospital capacity is shrinking?

[OutsiderFan]

Remember that what you are seeing now reflects transmissions from a week ago, so things will likely continue to get worse.  LA went into a modified lockdown (excepting religious services, no doubt on account of the recent US Supreme Court decision on the matter in New York and protests).

BC

Understand.   But I repeat where is the scientific or factual evidence that pro or college sports without fans in the stands have been a contributor to the spread. Heck, Santa Clara county right now has the highest rate in the bay area. Perhaps the other counties should be ban any travel to their county from anybody from Santa Clara County?

 Again, this just smacks of arbitrary of doing something or trying to show that they are doing something.

Let's pretend you were in charge of the health of the citizens of your county. lex.  You are seeing hospital capacity diminish and virus spread is expected to continue as a result of Thanksgiving gatherings. What tools do you have at your disposal? 

If you see the number of teams having virus issues - pro and college - it tells you sports are a spread vector now, because there is so much virus in communities.

I don’t think Bay Area sports teams and specifically those in Santa Clara county have had any particular virus issue. The 49ers have had a couple on and off. But nothing major in the context of the virus Has SJS had a problem?  Santa Clara?  Stanford?  

 Further, where is the evidence that people coming from outside the county are a major cause of increase within the County.  If the evidence is there - show me.

You didn't answer the question. What would you do were you in charge of public health in Santa Clara County, and you knew the epidemiology of the situation, and the hospital capacity is shrinking?

[lex24]

Remember that what you are seeing now reflects transmissions from a week ago, so things will likely continue to get worse.  LA went into a modified lockdown (excepting religious services, no doubt on account of the recent US Supreme Court decision on the matter in New York and protests).

BC

Understand.   But I repeat where is the scientific or factual evidence that pro or college sports without fans in the stands have been a contributor to the spread. Heck, Santa Clara county right now has the highest rate in the bay area. Perhaps the other counties should be ban any travel to their county from anybody from Santa Clara County?

 Again, this just smacks of arbitrary of doing something or trying to show that they are doing something.

Let's pretend you were in charge of the health of the citizens of your county. lex.  You are seeing hospital capacity diminish and virus spread is expected to continue as a result of Thanksgiving gatherings. What tools do you have at your disposal? 

If you see the number of teams having virus issues - pro and college - it tells you sports are a spread vector now, because there is so much virus in communities.

I don’t think Bay Area sports teams and specifically those in Santa Clara county have had any particular virus issue. The 49ers have had a couple on and off. But nothing major in the context of the virus Has SJS had a problem?  Santa Clara?  Stanford?  

 Further, where is the evidence that people coming from outside the county are a major cause of increase within the County.  If the evidence is there - show me.

You didn't answer the question. What would you do were you in charge of public health in Santa Clara County, and you knew the epidemiology of the situation, and the hospital capacity is shrinking?

I  can’t give you specifics – it’s beyond my area of expertise. I fully admit that. What I would be doing, however, is looking at data etc. to indicate what are the heaviest factors in the spread – and looking at ways to direct the fight to those particulars. To the extent possible. And frankly I don’t think things such as professional and college sports without fans, and out of county folks coming in from over 150 miles fit that bill.  

 As I said many times I also don’t think these decisions should be made by county health directors. Hell from their perspective the best thing to do would be to lock everybody in their house and let them out only to buy food.   I mean that would certainly slow the spread. 

But there are other factors that need to be addressed considered etc.  Which is why public officials that are answerable to their constituents people  should be the ones making these decisions. With the Health Directors being a major part of the process.

[lex24]

Remember that what you are seeing now reflects transmissions from a week ago, so things will likely continue to get worse.  LA went into a modified lockdown (excepting religious services, no doubt on account of the recent US Supreme Court decision on the matter in New York and protests).

BC

Understand.   But I repeat where is the scientific or factual evidence that pro or college sports without fans in the stands have been a contributor to the spread. Heck, Santa Clara county right now has the highest rate in the bay area. Perhaps the other counties should be ban any travel to their county from anybody from Santa Clara County?

 Again, this just smacks of arbitrary of doing something or trying to show that they are doing something.

Let's pretend you were in charge of the health of the citizens of your county. lex.  You are seeing hospital capacity diminish and virus spread is expected to continue as a result of Thanksgiving gatherings. What tools do you have at your disposal? 

If you see the number of teams having virus issues - pro and college - it tells you sports are a spread vector now, because there is so much virus in communities.

I don’t think Bay Area sports teams and specifically those in Santa Clara county have had any particular virus issue. The 49ers have had a couple on and off. But nothing major in the context of the virus Has SJS had a problem?  Santa Clara?  Stanford?  

 Further, where is the evidence that people coming from outside the county are a major cause of increase within the County.  If the evidence is there - show me.

You didn't answer the question. What would you do were you in charge of public health in Santa Clara County, and you knew the epidemiology of the situation, and the hospital capacity is shrinking?

I  can’t give you specifics – it’s beyond my area of expertise. I fully admit that. What I would be doing, however, is looking at data etc. to indicate what are the heaviest factors in the spread – and looking at ways to direct the fight to those particulars. To the extent possible. And frankly I don’t think things such as professional and college sports without fans, and out of county folks coming in from over 150 miles fit that bill.  

 As I said many times I also don’t think these decisions should be made by county health directors. Hell from their perspective the best thing to do would be to lock everybody in their house and let them out only to buy food.   I mean that would certainly slow the spread. 

But there are other factors that need to be addressed considered etc.  Which is why public officials that are answerable to their constituents people  should be the ones making these decisions. With the Health Directors being a major part of the process.

[Farm93]

Here in CA the trends are apparently the problem.   POTUS46, CA Gov and health officials around the world are telling officials to send the public messages that reinforce this is serious.   Playing football (NFL, college and youth) says its all a joke.   So officials that need to send a message have one available that will raise awareness with minimal economic downside.   Sports are done.

People have gotten comfortable playing pick-up games in fields and courts.
Club sports have gotten comfortable playing scrimmages of all types.
And everyone says it's OK because...
It is outdoors
It is just a youth group
We are young
Fatalities are not common
I leave it up to god/fate/etc.
The evidence is mixed, inconclusive, not available, not applicable

So a temporary ban tells the population that COVID measures must apply to everyone.  No exceptions for the young, or the rich, or the politically connected.

I remain thankful that the season was extended just long enough for Stanford to get the Axe back, as I really thought the team might not get that chance. 

FWIW - San Mateo County as a temporary solution may not work as I suspect San Mateo county will have a similar outlook soon enough given that a number of San Mateo County residents utilize hospitals in Santa Clara County.  Also per these rules the team would need to practice and live outside of Santa Clara County.   If this becomes a regional thing (again) then Las Vegas or another city in a different state would probably be a more viable work around.   And that might be OK since Stanford classes are virtual anyway.  Stanford at the Four Seasons.   (The hotel chain, not the landscaping shop).

[Farm93]

Here in CA the trends are apparently the problem.   POTUS46, CA Gov and health officials around the world are telling officials to send the public messages that reinforce this is serious.   Playing football (NFL, college and youth) says its all a joke.   So officials that need to send a message have one available that will raise awareness with minimal economic downside.   Sports are done.

People have gotten comfortable playing pick-up games in fields and courts.
Club sports have gotten comfortable playing scrimmages of all types.
And everyone says it's OK because...
It is outdoors
It is just a youth group
We are young
Fatalities are not common
I leave it up to god/fate/etc.
The evidence is mixed, inconclusive, not available, not applicable

So a temporary ban tells the population that COVID measures must apply to everyone.  No exceptions for the young, or the rich, or the politically connected.

I remain thankful that the season was extended just long enough for Stanford to get the Axe back, as I really thought the team might not get that chance. 

FWIW - San Mateo County as a temporary solution may not work as I suspect San Mateo county will have a similar outlook soon enough given that a number of San Mateo County residents utilize hospitals in Santa Clara County.  Also per these rules the team would need to practice and live outside of Santa Clara County.   If this becomes a regional thing (again) then Las Vegas or another city in a different state would probably be a more viable work around.   And that might be OK since Stanford classes are virtual anyway.  Stanford at the Four Seasons.   (The hotel chain, not the landscaping shop).

[lex24]

Here in CA the trends are apparently the problem.   POTUS46, CA Gov and health officials around the world are telling officials to send the public messages that reinforce this is serious.   Playing football (NFL, college and youth) says its all a joke.   So officials that need to send a message have one available that will raise awareness with minimal economic downside.   Sports are done.

People have gotten comfortable playing pick-up games in fields and courts.
Club sports have gotten comfortable playing scrimmages of all types.
And everyone says it's OK because...
It is outdoors
It is just a youth group
We are young
Fatalities are not common
I leave it up to god/fate/etc.
The evidence is mixed, inconclusive, not available, not applicable

So a temporary ban tells the population that COVID measures must apply to everyone.  No exceptions for the young, or the rich, or the politically connected.

I remain thankful that the season was extended just long enough for Stanford to get the Axe back, as I really thought the team might not get that chance. 

FWIW - San Mateo County as a temporary solution may not work as I suspect San Mateo county will have a similar outlook soon enough given that a number of San Mateo County residents utilize hospitals in Santa Clara County.  Also per these rules the team would need to practice and live outside of Santa Clara County.   If this becomes a regional thing (again) then Las Vegas or another city in a different state would probably be a more viable work around.   And that might be OK since Stanford classes are virtual anyway.  Stanford at the Four Seasons.   (The hotel chain, not the landscaping shop).

Those that don’t think this is serious never will.  No matter what you do. And the number in Calif and particularly in the Bay Area, in that camp is small.

 Cutting sports to show “it’s serious” is not a reasonable basis for making decisions relative to sports. And I don’t think your “ everyone says it’s ok” is accurate. Not close.

I’m also differentiating between pro and college spectator sports - which have a whole lot of protocols and “protections” locked into them - from such things as youth club sports which is an entirely different issue altogether. IMO the two are not remotely related.

[lex24]

Here in CA the trends are apparently the problem.   POTUS46, CA Gov and health officials around the world are telling officials to send the public messages that reinforce this is serious.   Playing football (NFL, college and youth) says its all a joke.   So officials that need to send a message have one available that will raise awareness with minimal economic downside.   Sports are done.

People have gotten comfortable playing pick-up games in fields and courts.
Club sports have gotten comfortable playing scrimmages of all types.
And everyone says it's OK because...
It is outdoors
It is just a youth group
We are young
Fatalities are not common
I leave it up to god/fate/etc.
The evidence is mixed, inconclusive, not available, not applicable

So a temporary ban tells the population that COVID measures must apply to everyone.  No exceptions for the young, or the rich, or the politically connected.

I remain thankful that the season was extended just long enough for Stanford to get the Axe back, as I really thought the team might not get that chance. 

FWIW - San Mateo County as a temporary solution may not work as I suspect San Mateo county will have a similar outlook soon enough given that a number of San Mateo County residents utilize hospitals in Santa Clara County.  Also per these rules the team would need to practice and live outside of Santa Clara County.   If this becomes a regional thing (again) then Las Vegas or another city in a different state would probably be a more viable work around.   And that might be OK since Stanford classes are virtual anyway.  Stanford at the Four Seasons.   (The hotel chain, not the landscaping shop).

Those that don’t think this is serious never will.  No matter what you do. And the number in Calif and particularly in the Bay Area, in that camp is small.

 Cutting sports to show “it’s serious” is not a reasonable basis for making decisions relative to sports. And I don’t think your “ everyone says it’s ok” is accurate. Not close.

I’m also differentiating between pro and college spectator sports - which have a whole lot of protocols and “protections” locked into them - from such things as youth club sports which is an entirely different issue altogether. IMO the two are not remotely related.