04-30-2021, 07:49 AM
WBB: NCAA 1 time transfer rule ratified
04-30-2021, 09:01 AM
I wonder if the recruiting restrictions/rules will apply to transfers?
This opens the door for a program to pull together a "dream team" of transfers. For basketball, an aggressive coach could induce the transfer of the best basketball players at each position and nearly promise them a final four appearance and a good chance at a NC. Let the games begin.
This opens the door for a program to pull together a "dream team" of transfers. For basketball, an aggressive coach could induce the transfer of the best basketball players at each position and nearly promise them a final four appearance and a good chance at a NC. Let the games begin.
Put a glide in your stride and a dip in your hip.
I wonder if the recruiting restrictions/rules will apply to transfers?
This opens the door for a program to pull together a "dream team" of transfers. For basketball, an aggressive coach could induce the transfer of the best basketball players at each position and nearly promise them a final four appearance and a good chance at a NC. Let the games begin.
This opens the door for a program to pull together a "dream team" of transfers. For basketball, an aggressive coach could induce the transfer of the best basketball players at each position and nearly promise them a final four appearance and a good chance at a NC. Let the games begin.
Put a glide in your stride and a dip in your hip.
04-30-2021, 03:24 PM
Still trying to wrap my head around South Carolina getting the 6-7 ACC player of the year while Kara Lawson getting SIX transfers.
Step by step, the charm of the game is facing away. I get attached to the players for four years and especially since I got my education from the same institution that the players are getting their education from. If that turns into a transfer-derby then I might as well watch professional sports, which I don't and won't.
I already detest the armies of mercenaries assembled by some of our rivals, but now it will become commonplace--even expected--to build teams based on transfers.
Stanford will be at a disadvantage since transfers to Stanford are so rare and so difficult. We will have to recruit with much greater foresight than those schools who grab players off the transfer market. And sometimes we won't.
Bad development for the game. And it will encourage more transfers, which (and no one discusses this) are almost always bad for the academic continuity of the student. I bet a good statistical analysis would show that athletes who transfer as undergraduates graduate at a much lower rate than those who do not.
I already detest the armies of mercenaries assembled by some of our rivals, but now it will become commonplace--even expected--to build teams based on transfers.
Stanford will be at a disadvantage since transfers to Stanford are so rare and so difficult. We will have to recruit with much greater foresight than those schools who grab players off the transfer market. And sometimes we won't.
Bad development for the game. And it will encourage more transfers, which (and no one discusses this) are almost always bad for the academic continuity of the student. I bet a good statistical analysis would show that athletes who transfer as undergraduates graduate at a much lower rate than those who do not.
Step by step, the charm of the game is facing away. I get attached to the players for four years and especially since I got my education from the same institution that the players are getting their education from. If that turns into a transfer-derby then I might as well watch professional sports, which I don't and won't.
I already detest the armies of mercenaries assembled by some of our rivals, but now it will become commonplace--even expected--to build teams based on transfers.
Stanford will be at a disadvantage since transfers to Stanford are so rare and so difficult. We will have to recruit with much greater foresight than those schools who grab players off the transfer market. And sometimes we won't.
Bad development for the game. And it will encourage more transfers, which (and no one discusses this) are almost always bad for the academic continuity of the student. I bet a good statistical analysis would show that athletes who transfer as undergraduates graduate at a much lower rate than those who do not.
I already detest the armies of mercenaries assembled by some of our rivals, but now it will become commonplace--even expected--to build teams based on transfers.
Stanford will be at a disadvantage since transfers to Stanford are so rare and so difficult. We will have to recruit with much greater foresight than those schools who grab players off the transfer market. And sometimes we won't.
Bad development for the game. And it will encourage more transfers, which (and no one discusses this) are almost always bad for the academic continuity of the student. I bet a good statistical analysis would show that athletes who transfer as undergraduates graduate at a much lower rate than those who do not.
04-30-2021, 05:04 PM
I'm with you 81. I have mixed feelings, in the sense that I do believe in empowering student/athletes, and a transfer rule that penalizes them excessively for transferring is unfair (especially as it allows coaches to be fired or to leave for a better offer without penalty). The student/athletes should not be indentured servants. But I am struggling because while this measure might empower individual student athletes, paradoxically, it seems like the overall effect will be pernicious.
BC
BC
I'm with you 81. I have mixed feelings, in the sense that I do believe in empowering student/athletes, and a transfer rule that penalizes them excessively for transferring is unfair (especially as it allows coaches to be fired or to leave for a better offer without penalty). The student/athletes should not be indentured servants. But I am struggling because while this measure might empower individual student athletes, paradoxically, it seems like the overall effect will be pernicious.
BC
BC
04-30-2021, 06:55 PM
They should have put a restriction on the number of transfers each school could take in each year. This would have made it harder to pack a team with transfers.
Put a glide in your stride and a dip in your hip.
04-30-2021, 07:35 PM
Excepting next year, which is unusual because of relaxation of scholarship limits due to COVID-19, doesn't the 15-scholarship limit apply? So if a team already has 14 scholarship players returning, it can only take on 1 transfer, right? Of course an unscrupulous coach can run off some existing scholarship players to make room, but I've never heard of that happening...
Excepting next year, which is unusual because of relaxation of scholarship limits due to COVID-19, doesn't the 15-scholarship limit apply? So if a team already has 14 scholarship players returning, it can only take on 1 transfer, right? Of course an unscrupulous coach can run off some existing scholarship players to make room, but I've never heard of that happening...
(04-30-2021, 07:56 PM)martyup Wrote:(04-30-2021, 07:47 PM)BobK Wrote: So let’s say the limit is three. Syracuse would have 5 next year.
I would suggest a limit of 1 or 2 for basketball.
I think Bob's comment is based on the fact that most of the Syracuse players are transferring out. So if only two are left and only three can transfer in, that makes only 5 on the team. The coach would have to recruit a lot of walk-ons just to be able to hold a practice.
https://sports.yahoo.com/syracuse-womens...57415.html
Generally, I don't see how a limit on incoming transfers can work when there is no limit on outgoing transfers.
(This post was last modified: 04-30-2021, 08:05 PM by CompSci87.)
(04-30-2021, 07:56 PM)martyup Wrote:(04-30-2021, 07:47 PM)BobK Wrote: So let’s say the limit is three. Syracuse would have 5 next year.
I would suggest a limit of 1 or 2 for basketball.
I think Bob's comment is based on the fact that most of the Syracuse players are transferring out. So if only two are left and only three can transfer in, that makes only 5 on the team. The coach would have to recruit a lot of walk-ons just to be able to hold a practice.
https://sports.yahoo.com/syracuse-womens...57415.html
Generally, I don't see how a limit on incoming transfers can work when there is no limit on outgoing transfers.
04-30-2021, 09:01 PM
This is going to be a mess, no doubt about it. Exactly how big a mess will depend a lot on how responsible coaches are about not actually enticing players to transfer. When that starts happening, the probability of no more college sports goes way up IMO. Nobody can claim their school is about education when their employees are raiding other schools strictly for athletic talent.
This is going to be a mess, no doubt about it. Exactly how big a mess will depend a lot on how responsible coaches are about not actually enticing players to transfer. When that starts happening, the probability of no more college sports goes way up IMO. Nobody can claim their school is about education when their employees are raiding other schools strictly for athletic talent.
I agree that the bond the alums and fans for programs around the USA have for the players erodes if even more players move around.
This is bad for Stanford competitiveness for reasons fans on this board understand.
However, nationally this is so much better for the student-athletes. If the program, coach, athletic facilities, academic resources, campus culture, area weather or any number of other things are just not meeting expectations, then a person should be allowed to transfer just like other students on campus. And with players able to transfer it will mean coaches will need to treat their players with greater respect.
Athletes go to a coach at a school, only to discover the coach is leaving shortly after they enroll.
Some athletes take a chance and go to other parts of the USA only to discover it is too far from home.
Athletes have even been stuck when dealing with family illnesses at home, campus discrimination, coach abuse and other things.
I know this is likely a negative for Stanford's competitiveness and probably bad for the appeal of college programs. Yet its benefits for the thousands of student-athletes nationwide are noteworthy. That's too big of a benefit for me to still want to maintain the status-quo for Stanford Athletics.
This is bad for Stanford competitiveness for reasons fans on this board understand.
However, nationally this is so much better for the student-athletes. If the program, coach, athletic facilities, academic resources, campus culture, area weather or any number of other things are just not meeting expectations, then a person should be allowed to transfer just like other students on campus. And with players able to transfer it will mean coaches will need to treat their players with greater respect.
Athletes go to a coach at a school, only to discover the coach is leaving shortly after they enroll.
Some athletes take a chance and go to other parts of the USA only to discover it is too far from home.
Athletes have even been stuck when dealing with family illnesses at home, campus discrimination, coach abuse and other things.
I know this is likely a negative for Stanford's competitiveness and probably bad for the appeal of college programs. Yet its benefits for the thousands of student-athletes nationwide are noteworthy. That's too big of a benefit for me to still want to maintain the status-quo for Stanford Athletics.
I agree that the bond the alums and fans for programs around the USA have for the players erodes if even more players move around.
This is bad for Stanford competitiveness for reasons fans on this board understand.
However, nationally this is so much better for the student-athletes. If the program, coach, athletic facilities, academic resources, campus culture, area weather or any number of other things are just not meeting expectations, then a person should be allowed to transfer just like other students on campus. And with players able to transfer it will mean coaches will need to treat their players with greater respect.
Athletes go to a coach at a school, only to discover the coach is leaving shortly after they enroll.
Some athletes take a chance and go to other parts of the USA only to discover it is too far from home.
Athletes have even been stuck when dealing with family illnesses at home, campus discrimination, coach abuse and other things.
I know this is likely a negative for Stanford's competitiveness and probably bad for the appeal of college programs. Yet its benefits for the thousands of student-athletes nationwide are noteworthy. That's too big of a benefit for me to still want to maintain the status-quo for Stanford Athletics.
This is bad for Stanford competitiveness for reasons fans on this board understand.
However, nationally this is so much better for the student-athletes. If the program, coach, athletic facilities, academic resources, campus culture, area weather or any number of other things are just not meeting expectations, then a person should be allowed to transfer just like other students on campus. And with players able to transfer it will mean coaches will need to treat their players with greater respect.
Athletes go to a coach at a school, only to discover the coach is leaving shortly after they enroll.
Some athletes take a chance and go to other parts of the USA only to discover it is too far from home.
Athletes have even been stuck when dealing with family illnesses at home, campus discrimination, coach abuse and other things.
I know this is likely a negative for Stanford's competitiveness and probably bad for the appeal of college programs. Yet its benefits for the thousands of student-athletes nationwide are noteworthy. That's too big of a benefit for me to still want to maintain the status-quo for Stanford Athletics.
05-01-2021, 07:54 AM
(05-01-2021, 06:51 AM)Farm93 Wrote: I agree that the bond the alums and fans for programs around the USA have for the players erodes if even more players move around.I totally agree that athletes should be allowed to transfer for the same reasons other students transfer. The problem arrives when students transfer for athletic reasons. Those reasons don't apply to "normal" students. I can understand a student transferring because a professor they really wanted to work with has decided to move to another university. Same with a coach that quits/gets fired. However, I do have an issue with a regular student who changes schools because they think they will get better grades at a different university because the competition is weaker there This does happen. I know people who left Stanford for exactly that reason although maybe in today's grade climate, it doesn't happen much. Often that is what an athlete is doing when looking for playing time.
This is bad for Stanford competitiveness for reasons fans on this board understand.
However, nationally this is so much better for the student-athletes. If the program, coach, athletic facilities, academic resources, campus culture, area weather or any number of other things are just not meeting expectations, then a person should be allowed to transfer just like other students on campus. And with players able to transfer it will mean coaches will need to treat their players with greater respect.
Athletes go to a coach at a school, only to discover the coach is leaving shortly after they enroll.
Some athletes take a chance and go to other parts of the USA only to discover it is too far from home.
Athletes have even been stuck when dealing with family illnesses at home, campus discrimination, coach abuse and other things.
I know this is likely a negative for Stanford's competitiveness and probably bad for the appeal of college programs. Yet its benefits for the thousands of student-athletes nationwide are noteworthy. That's too big of a benefit for me to still want to maintain the status-quo for Stanford Athletics.
One may say that the athlete is just going someplace that has a greater need for his/her skills. That is where the analogy to other students falls apart. There is no such thing as a "starting lineup" in undergraduate education. Everybody plays the same minutes. (In graduate programs there sometime is, and that is where you might want to change advisors. However, the stigma attached to that is still very non-zero). It falls apart even further when other universities solicit athletes to transfer because of their athletic skills. There are points in time when recruiting is considered acceptable. Grad transfers fit this paradigm. They are at a recognized transition point. Recruiting undergraduates from one university to another is generally considered improper and doesn't happen much (if at all). With this change, it will happen for athletes all the time. Big difference. Once again, athletes will not be "just another student". At some point, universities will say "Enough. This isn't education, this is pure business. We don't want to be in this game." That is the real risk to Stanford (and other places) athletic programs that "free agency" brings.
(05-01-2021, 06:51 AM)Farm93 Wrote: I agree that the bond the alums and fans for programs around the USA have for the players erodes if even more players move around.I totally agree that athletes should be allowed to transfer for the same reasons other students transfer. The problem arrives when students transfer for athletic reasons. Those reasons don't apply to "normal" students. I can understand a student transferring because a professor they really wanted to work with has decided to move to another university. Same with a coach that quits/gets fired. However, I do have an issue with a regular student who changes schools because they think they will get better grades at a different university because the competition is weaker there This does happen. I know people who left Stanford for exactly that reason although maybe in today's grade climate, it doesn't happen much. Often that is what an athlete is doing when looking for playing time.
This is bad for Stanford competitiveness for reasons fans on this board understand.
However, nationally this is so much better for the student-athletes. If the program, coach, athletic facilities, academic resources, campus culture, area weather or any number of other things are just not meeting expectations, then a person should be allowed to transfer just like other students on campus. And with players able to transfer it will mean coaches will need to treat their players with greater respect.
Athletes go to a coach at a school, only to discover the coach is leaving shortly after they enroll.
Some athletes take a chance and go to other parts of the USA only to discover it is too far from home.
Athletes have even been stuck when dealing with family illnesses at home, campus discrimination, coach abuse and other things.
I know this is likely a negative for Stanford's competitiveness and probably bad for the appeal of college programs. Yet its benefits for the thousands of student-athletes nationwide are noteworthy. That's too big of a benefit for me to still want to maintain the status-quo for Stanford Athletics.
One may say that the athlete is just going someplace that has a greater need for his/her skills. That is where the analogy to other students falls apart. There is no such thing as a "starting lineup" in undergraduate education. Everybody plays the same minutes. (In graduate programs there sometime is, and that is where you might want to change advisors. However, the stigma attached to that is still very non-zero). It falls apart even further when other universities solicit athletes to transfer because of their athletic skills. There are points in time when recruiting is considered acceptable. Grad transfers fit this paradigm. They are at a recognized transition point. Recruiting undergraduates from one university to another is generally considered improper and doesn't happen much (if at all). With this change, it will happen for athletes all the time. Big difference. Once again, athletes will not be "just another student". At some point, universities will say "Enough. This isn't education, this is pure business. We don't want to be in this game." That is the real risk to Stanford (and other places) athletic programs that "free agency" brings.
05-01-2021, 08:27 AM
We’ll probably see the best recruits going to the best schools meaning that there will be in effect a super conference.
In men’s hoops Duke has brought in six transfers and Gonzaga snagged one of the Big 12’s best from Iowa State.
In men’s hoops Duke has brought in six transfers and Gonzaga snagged one of the Big 12’s best from Iowa State.
05-01-2021, 11:10 AM
(05-01-2021, 08:27 AM)Phogge Wrote: We’ll probably see the best recruits going to the best schools meaning that there will be in effect a super conference.
In men’s hoops Duke has brought in six transfers and Gonzaga snagged one of the Big 12’s best from Iowa State.
Duke women, too: https://goduke.com/news/2021/4/30/womens...eason.aspx
(05-01-2021, 08:27 AM)Phogge Wrote: We’ll probably see the best recruits going to the best schools meaning that there will be in effect a super conference.
In men’s hoops Duke has brought in six transfers and Gonzaga snagged one of the Big 12’s best from Iowa State.
Duke women, too: https://goduke.com/news/2021/4/30/womens...eason.aspx
05-26-2021, 01:30 PM
(04-30-2021, 09:01 PM)Goose Wrote: This is going to be a mess, no doubt about it. Exactly how big a mess will depend a lot on how responsible coaches are about not actually enticing players to transfer. When that starts happening, the probability of no more college sports goes way up IMO. Nobody can claim their school is about education when their employees are raiding other schools strictly for athletic talent.
Geno agrees https://www.espn.com/womens-college-bask...15016/mess
(04-30-2021, 09:01 PM)Goose Wrote: This is going to be a mess, no doubt about it. Exactly how big a mess will depend a lot on how responsible coaches are about not actually enticing players to transfer. When that starts happening, the probability of no more college sports goes way up IMO. Nobody can claim their school is about education when their employees are raiding other schools strictly for athletic talent.
Geno agrees https://www.espn.com/womens-college-bask...15016/mess
Geno's words:
In other news:
Funny that Geno does not mention that coaches leave for greener pastures on a regular basis, leaving their recruited players in the lurch. Coaches might work their asses off, but they get paid well. Student athletes work their asses off without compensation, so allowing them to play where they want should not be objectionable by well paid coaches.
Quote:"And there's something wrong with this idea of, you know, student-athlete welfare, that everything should be done to accommodate the student-athlete, with no regard whatsoever to the coaches who work their ass off, to recruit these kids in the first place, work with them, help them get better, make them the player that they are. And then they up and leave with no consequences whatsoever."
In other news:
Quote:The UConn Huskies have given women's basketball coach Geno Auriemma a five-year contract extension through April 2025, athletic director David Benedict announced Friday. Auriemma, 67, will receive a base salary of $600,000 per year and additional compensation for speaking, consulting and media obligations of $2.2 million for the 2020-21 season, which increases by $100,000 each year through the term of the contract.
Funny that Geno does not mention that coaches leave for greener pastures on a regular basis, leaving their recruited players in the lurch. Coaches might work their asses off, but they get paid well. Student athletes work their asses off without compensation, so allowing them to play where they want should not be objectionable by well paid coaches.
Put a glide in your stride and a dip in your hip.
Geno's words:
In other news:
Funny that Geno does not mention that coaches leave for greener pastures on a regular basis, leaving their recruited players in the lurch. Coaches might work their asses off, but they get paid well. Student athletes work their asses off without compensation, so allowing them to play where they want should not be objectionable by well paid coaches.
Quote:"And there's something wrong with this idea of, you know, student-athlete welfare, that everything should be done to accommodate the student-athlete, with no regard whatsoever to the coaches who work their ass off, to recruit these kids in the first place, work with them, help them get better, make them the player that they are. And then they up and leave with no consequences whatsoever."
In other news:
Quote:The UConn Huskies have given women's basketball coach Geno Auriemma a five-year contract extension through April 2025, athletic director David Benedict announced Friday. Auriemma, 67, will receive a base salary of $600,000 per year and additional compensation for speaking, consulting and media obligations of $2.2 million for the 2020-21 season, which increases by $100,000 each year through the term of the contract.
Funny that Geno does not mention that coaches leave for greener pastures on a regular basis, leaving their recruited players in the lurch. Coaches might work their asses off, but they get paid well. Student athletes work their asses off without compensation, so allowing them to play where they want should not be objectionable by well paid coaches.
Put a glide in your stride and a dip in your hip.
05-26-2021, 10:49 PM
(05-26-2021, 09:12 PM)martyup Wrote: Geno's words:
Quote:"And there's something wrong with this idea of, you know, student-athlete welfare, that everything should be done to accommodate the student-athlete, with no regard whatsoever to the coaches who work their ass off, to recruit these kids in the first place, work with them, help them get better, make them the player that they are. And then they up and leave with no consequences whatsoever."
In other news:
Quote:The UConn Huskies have given women's basketball coach Geno Auriemma a five-year contract extension through April 2025, athletic director David Benedict announced Friday. Auriemma, 67, will receive a base salary of $600,000 per year and additional compensation for speaking, consulting and media obligations of $2.2 million for the 2020-21 season, which increases by $100,000 each year through the term of the contract.
Funny that Geno does not mention that coaches leave for greener pastures on a regular basis, leaving their recruited players in the lurch. Coaches might work their asses off, but they get paid well. Student athletes work their asses off without compensation, so allowing them to play where they want should not be objectionable by well paid coaches.
“...without compensation...” ?
Have you paid 4 years of tuition at a major D1 school recently?
(05-26-2021, 09:12 PM)martyup Wrote: Geno's words:
Quote:"And there's something wrong with this idea of, you know, student-athlete welfare, that everything should be done to accommodate the student-athlete, with no regard whatsoever to the coaches who work their ass off, to recruit these kids in the first place, work with them, help them get better, make them the player that they are. And then they up and leave with no consequences whatsoever."
In other news:
Quote:The UConn Huskies have given women's basketball coach Geno Auriemma a five-year contract extension through April 2025, athletic director David Benedict announced Friday. Auriemma, 67, will receive a base salary of $600,000 per year and additional compensation for speaking, consulting and media obligations of $2.2 million for the 2020-21 season, which increases by $100,000 each year through the term of the contract.
Funny that Geno does not mention that coaches leave for greener pastures on a regular basis, leaving their recruited players in the lurch. Coaches might work their asses off, but they get paid well. Student athletes work their asses off without compensation, so allowing them to play where they want should not be objectionable by well paid coaches.
“...without compensation...” ?
Have you paid 4 years of tuition at a major D1 school recently?
05-26-2021, 11:47 PM
(05-26-2021, 10:49 PM)76lsjumb Wrote:(05-26-2021, 09:12 PM)martyup Wrote: Geno's words:
Quote:"And there's something wrong with this idea of, you know, student-athlete welfare, that everything should be done to accommodate the student-athlete, with no regard whatsoever to the coaches who work their ass off, to recruit these kids in the first place, work with them, help them get better, make them the player that they are. And then they up and leave with no consequences whatsoever."
In other news:
Quote:The UConn Huskies have given women's basketball coach Geno Auriemma a five-year contract extension through April 2025, athletic director David Benedict announced Friday. Auriemma, 67, will receive a base salary of $600,000 per year and additional compensation for speaking, consulting and media obligations of $2.2 million for the 2020-21 season, which increases by $100,000 each year through the term of the contract.
Funny that Geno does not mention that coaches leave for greener pastures on a regular basis, leaving their recruited players in the lurch. Coaches might work their asses off, but they get paid well. Student athletes work their asses off without compensation, so allowing them to play where they want should not be objectionable by well paid coaches.
“...without compensation...” ?
Have you paid 4 years of tuition at a major D1 school recently?
To be fair, it is substantially less than Geno made.
BC
(05-26-2021, 10:49 PM)76lsjumb Wrote:(05-26-2021, 09:12 PM)martyup Wrote: Geno's words:
Quote:"And there's something wrong with this idea of, you know, student-athlete welfare, that everything should be done to accommodate the student-athlete, with no regard whatsoever to the coaches who work their ass off, to recruit these kids in the first place, work with them, help them get better, make them the player that they are. And then they up and leave with no consequences whatsoever."
In other news:
Quote:The UConn Huskies have given women's basketball coach Geno Auriemma a five-year contract extension through April 2025, athletic director David Benedict announced Friday. Auriemma, 67, will receive a base salary of $600,000 per year and additional compensation for speaking, consulting and media obligations of $2.2 million for the 2020-21 season, which increases by $100,000 each year through the term of the contract.
Funny that Geno does not mention that coaches leave for greener pastures on a regular basis, leaving their recruited players in the lurch. Coaches might work their asses off, but they get paid well. Student athletes work their asses off without compensation, so allowing them to play where they want should not be objectionable by well paid coaches.
“...without compensation...” ?
Have you paid 4 years of tuition at a major D1 school recently?
To be fair, it is substantially less than Geno made.
BC
05-27-2021, 07:08 AM
I recognize that scholarship athletes get major benefits, and I don't advocate paying college athletes. I object to Geno complaining about student athletes wanting to transfer, because he worked so hard to recruit them.
Put a glide in your stride and a dip in your hip.
I recognize that scholarship athletes get major benefits, and I don't advocate paying college athletes. I object to Geno complaining about student athletes wanting to transfer, because he worked so hard to recruit them.
Put a glide in your stride and a dip in your hip.
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