[Phogge]

Mick, your prose seems to state that Bo was a switch hitter. I believe he only hit right handed and Baseball Register concurs. Perhaps I misread.

As for Mantle, he never quite got over the knee injury in the ‘51 WS and had many more probably influenced by his carousing with Bauer, Ford and Martin. Perhaps the best baseball athlete ever and probably the most powerful hitter ever. But he was also perhaps the biggest p**** ever.

[Phogge]

Mick, your prose seems to state that Bo was a switch hitter. I believe he only hit right handed and Baseball Register concurs. Perhaps I misread.

As for Mantle, he never quite got over the knee injury in the ‘51 WS and had many more probably influenced by his carousing with Bauer, Ford and Martin. Perhaps the best baseball athlete ever and probably the most powerful hitter ever. But he was also perhaps the biggest p**** ever.

[Mick]

I know the information about Mantle's time has been widely published and frequently cited, but it's absurd to think that he ran to first in 3.1 seconds, with the caveat that perhaps the methodology used in the 1950s is different from current methods (similar to timing a 40 yard run with a rolling start and a stopwatch vs electronic timing from a standing start.) Different methodologies may also account for the notion that Mantle would be almost a half second slower when batting right handed; Statcast times every single batter to first base and the average difference between LHB and RHB is less than a tenth of a second.

Fair enough.  What about the 0.45 disparity between Bo Jackson's time to first between his RHB and LHB efforts, taken electronically in the 1990s?

[Mick]

I know the information about Mantle's time has been widely published and frequently cited, but it's absurd to think that he ran to first in 3.1 seconds, with the caveat that perhaps the methodology used in the 1950s is different from current methods (similar to timing a 40 yard run with a rolling start and a stopwatch vs electronic timing from a standing start.) Different methodologies may also account for the notion that Mantle would be almost a half second slower when batting right handed; Statcast times every single batter to first base and the average difference between LHB and RHB is less than a tenth of a second.

Fair enough.  What about the 0.45 disparity between Bo Jackson's time to first between his RHB and LHB efforts, taken electronically in the 1990s?

[DC 86]

I know the information about Mantle's time has been widely published and frequently cited, but it's absurd to think that he ran to first in 3.1 seconds, with the caveat that perhaps the methodology used in the 1950s is different from current methods (similar to timing a 40 yard run with a rolling start and a stopwatch vs electronic timing from a standing start.) Different methodologies may also account for the notion that Mantle would be almost a half second slower when batting right handed; Statcast times every single batter to first base and the average difference between LHB and RHB is less than a tenth of a second.

Fair enough.  What about the 0.45 disparity between Bo Jackson's time to first between his RHB and LHB efforts, taken electronically in the 1990s?

Where was that measured? as Phogge pointed out he only batted right handed in the majors. I know he would sometimes hit lefthanded in batting practice, but when was he timed running to first base from both sides of the box? I wouldn't put much stock in it if wasn't done in an actual game.

You said it was "measured electronically" so it shouldn't be hard to find a verifiable source for the information.

[DC 86]

I know the information about Mantle's time has been widely published and frequently cited, but it's absurd to think that he ran to first in 3.1 seconds, with the caveat that perhaps the methodology used in the 1950s is different from current methods (similar to timing a 40 yard run with a rolling start and a stopwatch vs electronic timing from a standing start.) Different methodologies may also account for the notion that Mantle would be almost a half second slower when batting right handed; Statcast times every single batter to first base and the average difference between LHB and RHB is less than a tenth of a second.

Fair enough.  What about the 0.45 disparity between Bo Jackson's time to first between his RHB and LHB efforts, taken electronically in the 1990s?

Where was that measured? as Phogge pointed out he only batted right handed in the majors. I know he would sometimes hit lefthanded in batting practice, but when was he timed running to first base from both sides of the box? I wouldn't put much stock in it if wasn't done in an actual game.

You said it was "measured electronically" so it shouldn't be hard to find a verifiable source for the information.

[lex24]

I know the information about Mantle's time has been widely published and frequently cited, but it's absurd to think that he ran to first in 3.1 seconds, with the caveat that perhaps the methodology used in the 1950s is different from current methods (similar to timing a 40 yard run with a rolling start and a stopwatch vs electronic timing from a standing start.) Different methodologies may also account for the notion that Mantle would be almost a half second slower when batting right handed; Statcast times every single batter to first base and the average difference between LHB and RHB is less than a tenth of a second.

Fair enough.  What about the 0.45 disparity between Bo Jackson's time to first between his RHB and LHB efforts, taken electronically in the 1990s?

Where was that measured? as Phogge pointed out he only batted right handed in the majors. I know he would sometimes hit lefthanded in batting practice, but when was he timed running to first base from both sides of the box? I wouldn't put much stock in it if wasn't done in an actual game.

You said it was "measured electronically" so it shouldn't be hard to find a verifiable source for the information.

Bo probably could have hit left handed.  Don’t think there was much of anything he could not do athletically. HOF level talent in both baseball and football.  What a shame he had that hip problem.  I remember the first time I truly “got” how special he was.  He ran a simple sweep, hit the corner and “whoosh”.  An incredible combo of power and speed.

[lex24]

I know the information about Mantle's time has been widely published and frequently cited, but it's absurd to think that he ran to first in 3.1 seconds, with the caveat that perhaps the methodology used in the 1950s is different from current methods (similar to timing a 40 yard run with a rolling start and a stopwatch vs electronic timing from a standing start.) Different methodologies may also account for the notion that Mantle would be almost a half second slower when batting right handed; Statcast times every single batter to first base and the average difference between LHB and RHB is less than a tenth of a second.

Fair enough.  What about the 0.45 disparity between Bo Jackson's time to first between his RHB and LHB efforts, taken electronically in the 1990s?

Where was that measured? as Phogge pointed out he only batted right handed in the majors. I know he would sometimes hit lefthanded in batting practice, but when was he timed running to first base from both sides of the box? I wouldn't put much stock in it if wasn't done in an actual game.

You said it was "measured electronically" so it shouldn't be hard to find a verifiable source for the information.

Bo probably could have hit left handed.  Don’t think there was much of anything he could not do athletically. HOF level talent in both baseball and football.  What a shame he had that hip problem.  I remember the first time I truly “got” how special he was.  He ran a simple sweep, hit the corner and “whoosh”.  An incredible combo of power and speed.

[Leftcoast]

Giants are 4 games up on the Dodgers and 7 games up on those vaunted Padres with 49 games remaining.  They've won series against the Dodgers (twice), Brewers, and Padres since the All-Star game.

Plus 17 of those remaining games are against the Diamondbacks, Rockies, and Cubs.  

I'm a believer.

[Leftcoast]

Giants are 4 games up on the Dodgers and 7 games up on those vaunted Padres with 49 games remaining.  They've won series against the Dodgers (twice), Brewers, and Padres since the All-Star game.

Plus 17 of those remaining games are against the Diamondbacks, Rockies, and Cubs.  

I'm a believer.

[Phogge]

MLB Net talk all about Harper as MVP. Horseshit. Craw is the MVP.

[Phogge]

MLB Net talk all about Harper as MVP. Horseshit. Craw is the MVP.

[BobK]

More and more incredible each day. Again HRs and awesome relief pitching. Last night 4 innings no runs from the bullpen

Crawford MVP damn right

[BobK]

More and more incredible each day. Again HRs and awesome relief pitching. Last night 4 innings no runs from the bullpen

Crawford MVP damn right

[teejers1]

More and more incredible each day.  Again HRs and awesome relief pitching.  Last night 4 innings no runs from the bullpen

Crawford MVP damn right

What's remarkable to me is that the Giants are winning while not doing the little things well and even making some boneheaded plays.  Last night, they cluster an inning with 2 errors (including a rare one by Belt) that leads to an unearned run . . . but only 1 run.  The Giants also had 1st and 3rd nobody out, with the D-Backs infield playing back.  The D-Backs get a first-to-home DP and the Giants don't score that inning.  (More generally, the Giants' inability to get the runner on this with fewer than two outs home has been confounding). That's a 2-run swing to the negative . . . no matter, Giants still win.  4 dingers will help, that's for sure.

And speaking of Crawford, it was great to see him homer.  It had been a while.

P.S.  Belt did take a called third strike last night . . . and it was a strike.  So, one for those complaining about that aspect of his game.  Also, 14 game hitting streak done.  Too bad.

P.P.S. Here's the nagging question: can the Giants win a do-or-die Wild Card Game - or even a playoff series - with no ace starter and no dominant closer? Barring a pretty significant slide, I suspect we'll find out . . .

[teejers1]

More and more incredible each day.  Again HRs and awesome relief pitching.  Last night 4 innings no runs from the bullpen

Crawford MVP damn right

What's remarkable to me is that the Giants are winning while not doing the little things well and even making some boneheaded plays.  Last night, they cluster an inning with 2 errors (including a rare one by Belt) that leads to an unearned run . . . but only 1 run.  The Giants also had 1st and 3rd nobody out, with the D-Backs infield playing back.  The D-Backs get a first-to-home DP and the Giants don't score that inning.  (More generally, the Giants' inability to get the runner on this with fewer than two outs home has been confounding). That's a 2-run swing to the negative . . . no matter, Giants still win.  4 dingers will help, that's for sure.

And speaking of Crawford, it was great to see him homer.  It had been a while.

P.S.  Belt did take a called third strike last night . . . and it was a strike.  So, one for those complaining about that aspect of his game.  Also, 14 game hitting streak done.  Too bad.

P.P.S. Here's the nagging question: can the Giants win a do-or-die Wild Card Game - or even a playoff series - with no ace starter and no dominant closer? Barring a pretty significant slide, I suspect we'll find out . . .

[BobK]

I really believe we have an ace starter and a closer. Are they named Sandy or Goose no but they have been great

[BobK]

I really believe we have an ace starter and a closer. Are they named Sandy or Goose no but they have been great

[Phogge]

Sammie Long will act like Don Bessant. Look it up.

[Phogge]

Sammie Long will act like Don Bessant. Look it up.

[BobK]

Bessent?? The former Dodger pitcher great first year. I looked 8-1 Sure hope so.

[BobK]

Bessent?? The former Dodger pitcher great first year. I looked 8-1 Sure hope so.

[teejers1]

I really believe we have an ace starter and a closer.  Are they named Sandy or Goose no but they have been great

Who is your ace starter?  1H, I thought Gausman, but he is leaking oil pretty steadily of late, including last night.  Webb?  What I do like about the rotation is that they have about 4 "2-ish" level starters.  But no Buehler Scherzer combo (unfortunately). 

And McGee has been better lately, but a one-pitch guy that is not 98+ cheese and not Mariano's cutter.  Thus, still am not sold.  Though I agree he has been good recently.

BTW, think Rockies' series will be sneaky tough - G's need to avoid dropping 3 or 4 this weekend.

[teejers1]

I really believe we have an ace starter and a closer.  Are they named Sandy or Goose no but they have been great

Who is your ace starter?  1H, I thought Gausman, but he is leaking oil pretty steadily of late, including last night.  Webb?  What I do like about the rotation is that they have about 4 "2-ish" level starters.  But no Buehler Scherzer combo (unfortunately). 

And McGee has been better lately, but a one-pitch guy that is not 98+ cheese and not Mariano's cutter.  Thus, still am not sold.  Though I agree he has been good recently.

BTW, think Rockies' series will be sneaky tough - G's need to avoid dropping 3 or 4 this weekend.

[ATLcardinal]

Leading MLB in homers helps make up for some of the little things, as you note.  Shutting down opponents from scoring in innings 7/8/9 also helps, and the bullpen as a group has been remarkably good at that for the past couple months.  But one big little thing they do well is never quit.  A baseball team that believes they are going to win every game is pretty dangerous, and that's part of why this one keeps winning games they have no business winning.

[ATLcardinal]

Leading MLB in homers helps make up for some of the little things, as you note.  Shutting down opponents from scoring in innings 7/8/9 also helps, and the bullpen as a group has been remarkably good at that for the past couple months.  But one big little thing they do well is never quit.  A baseball team that believes they are going to win every game is pretty dangerous, and that's part of why this one keeps winning games they have no business winning.

[BobK]

Gausman 5 innings 2 runs one earned as you pointed out. That’s ace like

1.80 ERA for the day

[BobK]

Gausman 5 innings 2 runs one earned as you pointed out. That’s ace like

1.80 ERA for the day

[teejers1]

Gausman 5 innings 2 runs one earned as you pointed out.  That’s ace like

1.80 ERA for the day

Just curious, did you watch the game?  The guy barely made it through 5 innings, was constantly in trouble, and lost control of both his pitches for a good chunk of one inning.  In short, he projected anything but "ace starter."  He needs to throw the splitter for a strike every now and then (meaning start it a bit higher in the zone); otherwise, the good teams will just wait him out.  And then jump on the fastball.

I'm not saying he doesn't have ace stuff - am saying he hasn't been pitching like an ace over the last 4-5 starts.

[teejers1]

Gausman 5 innings 2 runs one earned as you pointed out.  That’s ace like

1.80 ERA for the day

Just curious, did you watch the game?  The guy barely made it through 5 innings, was constantly in trouble, and lost control of both his pitches for a good chunk of one inning.  In short, he projected anything but "ace starter."  He needs to throw the splitter for a strike every now and then (meaning start it a bit higher in the zone); otherwise, the good teams will just wait him out.  And then jump on the fastball.

I'm not saying he doesn't have ace stuff - am saying he hasn't been pitching like an ace over the last 4-5 starts.

[Leftcoast]

Gausman 5 innings 2 runs one earned as you pointed out.  That’s ace like

1.80 ERA for the day

Just curious, did you watch the game?  The guy barely made it through 5 innings, was constantly in trouble, and lost control of both his pitches for a good chunk of one inning.  In short, he projected anything but "ace starter."  He needs to throw the splitter for a strike every now and then (meaning start it a bit higher in the zone); otherwise, the good teams will just wait him out.  And then jump on the fastball.

I'm not saying he doesn't have ace stuff - am saying he hasn't been pitching like an ace over the last 4-5 starts.

I watched and yes Gausman struggled as he has for his last five starts and didn't have many clean innings. He turned the game over to the bullpen after the 5th.  I'm not an expert but it looked like he fell back on his fast ball whenever he was in trouble and the announcers claim his splitter hasn't worked for him the last month.  He did help himself out with a hit in the middle innings.  

Ultimately Gausman managed a good outing based on the most important metric (runs allowed) without his best stuff.  He'll need more in the increasingly likely post-season.

[Leftcoast]

Gausman 5 innings 2 runs one earned as you pointed out.  That’s ace like

1.80 ERA for the day

Just curious, did you watch the game?  The guy barely made it through 5 innings, was constantly in trouble, and lost control of both his pitches for a good chunk of one inning.  In short, he projected anything but "ace starter."  He needs to throw the splitter for a strike every now and then (meaning start it a bit higher in the zone); otherwise, the good teams will just wait him out.  And then jump on the fastball.

I'm not saying he doesn't have ace stuff - am saying he hasn't been pitching like an ace over the last 4-5 starts.

I watched and yes Gausman struggled as he has for his last five starts and didn't have many clean innings. He turned the game over to the bullpen after the 5th.  I'm not an expert but it looked like he fell back on his fast ball whenever he was in trouble and the announcers claim his splitter hasn't worked for him the last month.  He did help himself out with a hit in the middle innings.  

Ultimately Gausman managed a good outing based on the most important metric (runs allowed) without his best stuff.  He'll need more in the increasingly likely post-season.

[BobK]

Gausman 5 innings 2 runs one earned as you pointed out.  That’s ace like

1.80 ERA for the day

Just curious, did you watch the game?  The guy barely made it through 5 innings, was constantly in trouble, and lost control of both his pitches for a good chunk of one inning.  In short, he projected anything but "ace starter."  He needs to throw the splitter for a strike every now and then (meaning start it a bit higher in the zone); otherwise, the good teams will just wait him out.  And then jump on the fastball.

I'm not saying he doesn't have ace stuff - am saying he hasn't been pitching like an ace over the last 4-5 starts.

Yes I did watch. One earned run in 5 innings is very good. Without his best stuff and still one earned run in 5 innings. That's even better.

[BobK]

Gausman 5 innings 2 runs one earned as you pointed out.  That’s ace like

1.80 ERA for the day

Just curious, did you watch the game?  The guy barely made it through 5 innings, was constantly in trouble, and lost control of both his pitches for a good chunk of one inning.  In short, he projected anything but "ace starter."  He needs to throw the splitter for a strike every now and then (meaning start it a bit higher in the zone); otherwise, the good teams will just wait him out.  And then jump on the fastball.

I'm not saying he doesn't have ace stuff - am saying he hasn't been pitching like an ace over the last 4-5 starts.

Yes I did watch. One earned run in 5 innings is very good. Without his best stuff and still one earned run in 5 innings. That's even better.

[Phogge]

And the Rockies are not proving tough tonight. Plus Webb is acting like an ace lately.

[Phogge]

And the Rockies are not proving tough tonight. Plus Webb is acting like an ace lately.

[BostonCard]

Also, Dodgers and Padres lost.  Giants are 5-up on the Dodgers and 8.5 games up on the Padres.  In fact, they are 4 games clear of the Tampa Bay Rays for the best record in baseball.  More to the point, their expected win/loss is also 74-41, so it is not like they have been especially lucky (just lucky that the Dodgers are 13-21 in 1-run games and 1-11 in extra inning games).

And yet, the Giants are still 7th by 538's Elo, behind the Dodgers and Padres. (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/202...edictions/), but 538 has them as nearly guaranteed to make the playoffs, and slightly better than even of winning the division.

BC

[BostonCard]

Also, Dodgers and Padres lost.  Giants are 5-up on the Dodgers and 8.5 games up on the Padres.  In fact, they are 4 games clear of the Tampa Bay Rays for the best record in baseball.  More to the point, their expected win/loss is also 74-41, so it is not like they have been especially lucky (just lucky that the Dodgers are 13-21 in 1-run games and 1-11 in extra inning games).

And yet, the Giants are still 7th by 538's Elo, behind the Dodgers and Padres. (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/202...edictions/), but 538 has them as nearly guaranteed to make the playoffs, and slightly better than even of winning the division.

BC

[Phogge]

Stats? They have heart. WTF is EOI? ESPN (bastards) still has the Dodgers #1. The East Coast isn’t watching at night. Webb’s 94 is looking like 99 off his changeup.

This club wins. That’s the stat that matters.

[Phogge]

Stats? They have heart. WTF is EOI? ESPN (bastards) still has the Dodgers #1. The East Coast isn’t watching at night. Webb’s 94 is looking like 99 off his changeup.

This club wins. That’s the stat that matters.