[BobK]

Ron Guidry most wins without a regular season at bat

[BobK]

Ron Guidry most wins without a regular season at bat

[Mick]

Who is the only person to lead NCAA, ABA and NBA in scoring. 

Extra credit for years and teams.

Don't know the years but it's Rick Barry.

Miami Hurricanes, Oakland Oaks, Golden State Warriors but I don't think it was Barry...

[Mick]

Who is the only person to lead NCAA, ABA and NBA in scoring. 

Extra credit for years and teams.

Don't know the years but it's Rick Barry.

Miami Hurricanes, Oakland Oaks, Golden State Warriors but I don't think it was Barry...

[Mick]

Name a catcher and the year he won the gold glove when he didn't fit the Top Five of any of the following categories as a catcher:

1) Defensive games
2) Putouts
3) Caught Stealing percentage
4) Double Plays
5) Caught Stealing

Jacob Stallings, 2021, Pittsburgh.  Won the NL Gold Glove without finishing in the top Five in any of the above categories.

Not only is he not in the top five for any of the above categories, but his range factor is substantially below that of league average.  True, Stallings had 0 passed balls -- his big claim to fame, it sure isn't hitting -- but I don't think that's a significant metric.  Posey only had 2 passed balls all year and 27 in his career.  Stallings also had 35 wild pitches this year, Posey only had 18...but whatever.  Stallings threw out just 21% of stolen base attempts (Posey threw out 31%, league average is 25%).

I'm not saying it should have been Posey.  But Stallings is a real reach, IMHO.

[Mick]

Name a catcher and the year he won the gold glove when he didn't fit the Top Five of any of the following categories as a catcher:

1) Defensive games
2) Putouts
3) Caught Stealing percentage
4) Double Plays
5) Caught Stealing

Jacob Stallings, 2021, Pittsburgh.  Won the NL Gold Glove without finishing in the top Five in any of the above categories.

Not only is he not in the top five for any of the above categories, but his range factor is substantially below that of league average.  True, Stallings had 0 passed balls -- his big claim to fame, it sure isn't hitting -- but I don't think that's a significant metric.  Posey only had 2 passed balls all year and 27 in his career.  Stallings also had 35 wild pitches this year, Posey only had 18...but whatever.  Stallings threw out just 21% of stolen base attempts (Posey threw out 31%, league average is 25%).

I'm not saying it should have been Posey.  But Stallings is a real reach, IMHO.

[Giants]

Name a catcher and the year he won the gold glove when he didn't fit the Top Five of any of the following categories as a catcher:

1) Defensive games
2) Putouts
3) Caught Stealing percentage
4) Double Plays
5) Caught Stealing

Jacob Stallings, 2021, Pittsburgh.  Won the NL Gold Glove without finishing in the top Five in any of the above categories.

Not only is he not in the top five for any of the above categories, but his range factor is substantially below that of league average.  True, Stallings had 0 passed balls -- his big claim to fame, it sure isn't hitting -- but I don't think that's a significant metric.  Posey only had 2 passed balls all year and 27 in his career.  Stallings also had 35 wild pitches this year, Posey only had 18...but whatever.  Stallings threw out just 21% of stolen base attempts (Posey threw out 31%, league average is 25%).

I'm not saying it should have been Posey.  But Stallings is a real reach, IMHO.

Stallings had a great year in advanced fielding metrics.  For example, he led the Majors in Defensive Runs Saved by a wide margin and he was in the Top 5 in Framing and Defensive Runs Above Average.

Defensive ability is no longer measured by the traditional stats.  It is all about advanced metrics now.

[Giants]

Name a catcher and the year he won the gold glove when he didn't fit the Top Five of any of the following categories as a catcher:

1) Defensive games
2) Putouts
3) Caught Stealing percentage
4) Double Plays
5) Caught Stealing

Jacob Stallings, 2021, Pittsburgh.  Won the NL Gold Glove without finishing in the top Five in any of the above categories.

Not only is he not in the top five for any of the above categories, but his range factor is substantially below that of league average.  True, Stallings had 0 passed balls -- his big claim to fame, it sure isn't hitting -- but I don't think that's a significant metric.  Posey only had 2 passed balls all year and 27 in his career.  Stallings also had 35 wild pitches this year, Posey only had 18...but whatever.  Stallings threw out just 21% of stolen base attempts (Posey threw out 31%, league average is 25%).

I'm not saying it should have been Posey.  But Stallings is a real reach, IMHO.

Stallings had a great year in advanced fielding metrics.  For example, he led the Majors in Defensive Runs Saved by a wide margin and he was in the Top 5 in Framing and Defensive Runs Above Average.

Defensive ability is no longer measured by the traditional stats.  It is all about advanced metrics now.

[BobK]

Framing is a joke. A pretend metric.

[BobK]

Framing is a joke. A pretend metric.

[lex24]

Who is the only person to lead NCAA, ABA and NBA in scoring. 

Extra credit for years and teams.

Don't know the years but it's Rick Barry.

Miami Hurricanes, Oakland Oaks, Golden State Warriors but I don't think it was Barry...

Yes, it was Barry.

[lex24]

Who is the only person to lead NCAA, ABA and NBA in scoring. 

Extra credit for years and teams.

Don't know the years but it's Rick Barry.

Miami Hurricanes, Oakland Oaks, Golden State Warriors but I don't think it was Barry...

Yes, it was Barry.

[DC 86]

Framing is a joke.  A pretend metric.

It's a joke that some catchers are able to consistently manipulate the strike zone but there's nothing "pretend" about the effect it has on the game and how much value good framers provide to their team. Yet another reason to implement the electronic strike zone as soon as it's reliable.

[DC 86]

Framing is a joke.  A pretend metric.

It's a joke that some catchers are able to consistently manipulate the strike zone but there's nothing "pretend" about the effect it has on the game and how much value good framers provide to their team. Yet another reason to implement the electronic strike zone as soon as it's reliable.

[BobK]

I umpired 7 years. 2-3 times a week. Went to a class where they taught framing. Yes it’s a joke

[BobK]

I umpired 7 years. 2-3 times a week. Went to a class where they taught framing. Yes it’s a joke

[Phogge]

The umps have done it to themselves by not unifying on a zone. The old arm pit to top of knee worked.

[Phogge]

The umps have done it to themselves by not unifying on a zone. The old arm pit to top of knee worked.

[Giants]

Framing is a joke.  A pretend metric.

It's a joke that some catchers are able to consistently manipulate the strike zone but there's nothing "pretend" about the effect it has on the game and how much value good framers provide to their team. Yet another reason to implement the electronic strike zone as soon as it's reliable.

Absolutely, framing is effective. Posey was a master at getting calls by subtly moving his glove. There was an article at The Athletic recently that included a significant number of videos showing how Posey was able to steal strikes on close pitches. Of course he will be missed for his bat but I think he will be missed even more behind the plate.

[Giants]

Framing is a joke.  A pretend metric.

It's a joke that some catchers are able to consistently manipulate the strike zone but there's nothing "pretend" about the effect it has on the game and how much value good framers provide to their team. Yet another reason to implement the electronic strike zone as soon as it's reliable.

Absolutely, framing is effective. Posey was a master at getting calls by subtly moving his glove. There was an article at The Athletic recently that included a significant number of videos showing how Posey was able to steal strikes on close pitches. Of course he will be missed for his bat but I think he will be missed even more behind the plate.

[BobK]

Do you believe the umpire couldn’t see the pitch but looked to see where the glove was?

Ok who was the catcher when Phil Niekro got his 200th win

[BobK]

Do you believe the umpire couldn’t see the pitch but looked to see where the glove was?

Ok who was the catcher when Phil Niekro got his 200th win

[lex24]

The umps have done it to themselves by not unifying on a zone. The old arm pit to top of knee worked.

It did.  But if they used that as a zone today, no one would hit above .220.  Players bristle if a strike is called on a pitch above the belt.  With launch angles being the rage, and pitchers casually throwing 95 plus, a fastball at the armpits is darn near unhittable (and if hit, a pop up).

OTOH, it might cause hitters to adjust, level swings a bit and bring back contact hitters. 

I’m against robot umps.  The human element is part of the game. And I say that despite the home plate ump screwing Bryant and the Giants on two pitches in the 4th inning of game 5.  Should’ve been first and second, no outs.  With an at the time a tad shaky Urias on the mound. Still pisses me off…..

---

Do you believe the umpire couldn’t see the pitch but looked to see where the glove was? 

Ok who was the catcher when Phil Niekro got his 200th win

Too many umps base their call on whether the pitch hits at or near the target, as opposed to just calling the zone. Heck, Greg Maddox lived 4 inches off the outside corner.  Course, he could put the ball in a tin cup 9 out of 10 times. Pitched a complete game  on 77 pitches once.  Today that gets pitchers through about 4 innings…..

[lex24]

The umps have done it to themselves by not unifying on a zone. The old arm pit to top of knee worked.

It did.  But if they used that as a zone today, no one would hit above .220.  Players bristle if a strike is called on a pitch above the belt.  With launch angles being the rage, and pitchers casually throwing 95 plus, a fastball at the armpits is darn near unhittable (and if hit, a pop up).

OTOH, it might cause hitters to adjust, level swings a bit and bring back contact hitters. 

I’m against robot umps.  The human element is part of the game. And I say that despite the home plate ump screwing Bryant and the Giants on two pitches in the 4th inning of game 5.  Should’ve been first and second, no outs.  With an at the time a tad shaky Urias on the mound. Still pisses me off…..

---

Do you believe the umpire couldn’t see the pitch but looked to see where the glove was? 

Ok who was the catcher when Phil Niekro got his 200th win

Too many umps base their call on whether the pitch hits at or near the target, as opposed to just calling the zone. Heck, Greg Maddox lived 4 inches off the outside corner.  Course, he could put the ball in a tin cup 9 out of 10 times. Pitched a complete game  on 77 pitches once.  Today that gets pitchers through about 4 innings…..

[Giants]

The umps have done it to themselves by not unifying on a zone. The old arm pit to top of knee worked.

It did.  But if they used that as a zone today, no one would hit above .220.  Players bristle if a strike is called on a pitch above the belt.  With launch angles being the rage, and pitchers casually throwing 95 plus, a fastball at the armpits is darn near unhittable (and if hit, a pop up).

OTOH, it might cause hitters to adjust, level swings a bit and bring back contact hitters. 

I’m against robot umps.  The human element is part of the game. And I say that despite the home plate ump screwing Bryant and the Giants on two pitches in the 4th inning of game 5.  Should’ve been first and second, no outs.  With an at the time a tad shaky Urias on the mound. Still pisses me off…..

---

Do you believe the umpire couldn’t see the pitch but looked to see where the glove was? 

Ok who was the catcher when Phil Niekro got his 200th win

Too many umps base their call on whether the pitch hits at or near the target, as opposed to just calling the zone. Heck, Greg Maddox lived 4 inches off the outside corner.  Course, he could put the ball in a tin cup 9 out of 10 times. Pitched a complete game  on 77 pitches once.  Today that gets pitchers through about 4 innings…..

Well said, lex. 

Speaking of high fastballs and pop-ups, thanks again to Salvador Perez for swinging at that pitch against Bumgarner.

[Giants]

The umps have done it to themselves by not unifying on a zone. The old arm pit to top of knee worked.

It did.  But if they used that as a zone today, no one would hit above .220.  Players bristle if a strike is called on a pitch above the belt.  With launch angles being the rage, and pitchers casually throwing 95 plus, a fastball at the armpits is darn near unhittable (and if hit, a pop up).

OTOH, it might cause hitters to adjust, level swings a bit and bring back contact hitters. 

I’m against robot umps.  The human element is part of the game. And I say that despite the home plate ump screwing Bryant and the Giants on two pitches in the 4th inning of game 5.  Should’ve been first and second, no outs.  With an at the time a tad shaky Urias on the mound. Still pisses me off…..

---

Do you believe the umpire couldn’t see the pitch but looked to see where the glove was? 

Ok who was the catcher when Phil Niekro got his 200th win

Too many umps base their call on whether the pitch hits at or near the target, as opposed to just calling the zone. Heck, Greg Maddox lived 4 inches off the outside corner.  Course, he could put the ball in a tin cup 9 out of 10 times. Pitched a complete game  on 77 pitches once.  Today that gets pitchers through about 4 innings…..

Well said, lex. 

Speaking of high fastballs and pop-ups, thanks again to Salvador Perez for swinging at that pitch against Bumgarner.

[lex24]

The umps have done it to themselves by not unifying on a zone. The old arm pit to top of knee worked.

It did.  But if they used that as a zone today, no one would hit above .220.  Players bristle if a strike is called on a pitch above the belt.  With launch angles being the rage, and pitchers casually throwing 95 plus, a fastball at the armpits is darn near unhittable (and if hit, a pop up).

OTOH, it might cause hitters to adjust, level swings a bit and bring back contact hitters. 

I’m against robot umps.  The human element is part of the game. And I say that despite the home plate ump screwing Bryant and the Giants on two pitches in the 4th inning of game 5.  Should’ve been first and second, no outs.  With an at the time a tad shaky Urias on the mound. Still pisses me off…..

---

Do you believe the umpire couldn’t see the pitch but looked to see where the glove was? 

Ok who was the catcher when Phil Niekro got his 200th win

Too many umps base their call on whether the pitch hits at or near the target, as opposed to just calling the zone. Heck, Greg Maddox lived 4 inches off the outside corner.  Course, he could put the ball in a tin cup 9 out of 10 times. Pitched a complete game  on 77 pitches once.  Today that gets pitchers through about 4 innings…..

Well said, lex. 

Speaking of high fastballs and pop-ups, thanks again to Salvador Perez for swinging at that pitch against Bumgarner.

With a nod to Buster. Bum threw Perez 6 high fastballs….  Perez had homered against Bum earlier in the Series. The only run Bum has surrender in 25 WS innings.

[lex24]

The umps have done it to themselves by not unifying on a zone. The old arm pit to top of knee worked.

It did.  But if they used that as a zone today, no one would hit above .220.  Players bristle if a strike is called on a pitch above the belt.  With launch angles being the rage, and pitchers casually throwing 95 plus, a fastball at the armpits is darn near unhittable (and if hit, a pop up).

OTOH, it might cause hitters to adjust, level swings a bit and bring back contact hitters. 

I’m against robot umps.  The human element is part of the game. And I say that despite the home plate ump screwing Bryant and the Giants on two pitches in the 4th inning of game 5.  Should’ve been first and second, no outs.  With an at the time a tad shaky Urias on the mound. Still pisses me off…..

---

Do you believe the umpire couldn’t see the pitch but looked to see where the glove was? 

Ok who was the catcher when Phil Niekro got his 200th win

Too many umps base their call on whether the pitch hits at or near the target, as opposed to just calling the zone. Heck, Greg Maddox lived 4 inches off the outside corner.  Course, he could put the ball in a tin cup 9 out of 10 times. Pitched a complete game  on 77 pitches once.  Today that gets pitchers through about 4 innings…..

Well said, lex. 

Speaking of high fastballs and pop-ups, thanks again to Salvador Perez for swinging at that pitch against Bumgarner.

With a nod to Buster. Bum threw Perez 6 high fastballs….  Perez had homered against Bum earlier in the Series. The only run Bum has surrender in 25 WS innings.

[Mick]

Name a catcher and the year he won the gold glove when he didn't fit the Top Five of any of the following categories as a catcher:

1) Defensive games
2) Putouts
3) Caught Stealing percentage
4) Double Plays
5) Caught Stealing

Jacob Stallings, 2021, Pittsburgh.  Won the NL Gold Glove without finishing in the top Five in any of the above categories.

Not only is he not in the top five for any of the above categories, but his range factor is substantially below that of league average.  True, Stallings had 0 passed balls -- his big claim to fame, it sure isn't hitting -- but I don't think that's a significant metric.  Posey only had 2 passed balls all year and 27 in his career.  Stallings also had 35 wild pitches this year, Posey only had 18...but whatever.  Stallings threw out just 21% of stolen base attempts (Posey threw out 31%, league average is 25%).

I'm not saying it should have been Posey.  But Stallings is a real reach, IMHO.

Stallings had a great year in advanced fielding metrics.  For example, he led the Majors in Defensive Runs Saved by a wide margin and he was in the Top 5 in Framing and Defensive Runs Above Average.

Defensive ability is no longer measured by the traditional stats.  It is all about advanced metrics now.

He was 1st in total Defensive Runs saved by a brobdingnagian margin (21 vs. Austin Hedges, who had 12), T4 for framing (rSZ) and 5th in FRM (another framing measure), 25th in rSB (Stolen Base Runs Above Average), 3rd in rCERA (essentially handling a pitching staff), 1st in rGFP (good fielding plays) and 5th in (Fielding Runs Above Average+ Ultimate Zone Rating)

[Mick]

Name a catcher and the year he won the gold glove when he didn't fit the Top Five of any of the following categories as a catcher:

1) Defensive games
2) Putouts
3) Caught Stealing percentage
4) Double Plays
5) Caught Stealing

Jacob Stallings, 2021, Pittsburgh.  Won the NL Gold Glove without finishing in the top Five in any of the above categories.

Not only is he not in the top five for any of the above categories, but his range factor is substantially below that of league average.  True, Stallings had 0 passed balls -- his big claim to fame, it sure isn't hitting -- but I don't think that's a significant metric.  Posey only had 2 passed balls all year and 27 in his career.  Stallings also had 35 wild pitches this year, Posey only had 18...but whatever.  Stallings threw out just 21% of stolen base attempts (Posey threw out 31%, league average is 25%).

I'm not saying it should have been Posey.  But Stallings is a real reach, IMHO.

Stallings had a great year in advanced fielding metrics.  For example, he led the Majors in Defensive Runs Saved by a wide margin and he was in the Top 5 in Framing and Defensive Runs Above Average.

Defensive ability is no longer measured by the traditional stats.  It is all about advanced metrics now.

He was 1st in total Defensive Runs saved by a brobdingnagian margin (21 vs. Austin Hedges, who had 12), T4 for framing (rSZ) and 5th in FRM (another framing measure), 25th in rSB (Stolen Base Runs Above Average), 3rd in rCERA (essentially handling a pitching staff), 1st in rGFP (good fielding plays) and 5th in (Fielding Runs Above Average+ Ultimate Zone Rating)

[DC 86]

Do you believe the umpire couldn’t see the pitch but looked to see where the glove was? 

I don't just believe it, every front office has analyzed video and quantified pitches that were outside the strike zone but called strikes after the catcher framed the pitch to fool the umpire., and found that individual catchers' framing ability is relatively consistent year to year, and that it has a material impact over the course of the year. It was the reason why the Blue Jays signed Russell Martin to what was perceived to be an exorbitant contract at the time; other clubs took notice and subsequently framing has become an important part of how clubs estimate catcher value. There are also numerous public analyses and articles on the subject. It's real, if anything its impact is underestimated although it has diminished slightly as umpires have become more aware.

---

The umps have done it to themselves by not unifying on a zone. The old arm pit to top of knee worked.

It did.  But if they used that as a zone today, no one would hit above .220.  Players bristle if a strike is called on a pitch above the belt.  With launch angles being the rage, and pitchers casually throwing 95 plus, a fastball at the armpits is darn near unhittable (and if hit, a pop up).

OTOH, it might cause hitters to adjust, level swings a bit and bring back contact hitters. 

I’m against robot umps.  The human element is part of the game. And I say that despite the home plate ump screwing Bryant and the Giants on two pitches in the 4th inning of game 5.  Should’ve been first and second, no outs.  With an at the time a tad shaky Urias on the mound. Still pisses me off…..

Too many umps base their call on whether the pitch hits at or near the target, as opposed to just calling the zone. Heck, Greg Maddox lived 4 inches off the outside corner.  Course, he could put the ball in a tin cup 9 out of 10 times. Pitched a complete game  on 77 pitches once.  Today that gets pitchers through about 4 innings…..

Very true on all counts, except that I strongly disagree about umpires being part of the human element. What makes sports fascinating is to observe how players deal with pressure, with adversity, with different game situations that require quick thinking, etc. Umpires inserting randomness to the point of a game not being decided by the players themselves is a human element that I can do without. Armando Gallaraga deprived of a perfect game or the Cardinals possibly deprived of a World Series by Don Denkinger undermines the game. An umpire inserting an element of random chance and affecting the outcome of the game doesn't enhance my enjoyment, in fact it detracts from it even if it helps my team. The real human element is awesome, but umpires should be robotic (either literally or figuratively.)

[DC 86]

Do you believe the umpire couldn’t see the pitch but looked to see where the glove was? 

I don't just believe it, every front office has analyzed video and quantified pitches that were outside the strike zone but called strikes after the catcher framed the pitch to fool the umpire., and found that individual catchers' framing ability is relatively consistent year to year, and that it has a material impact over the course of the year. It was the reason why the Blue Jays signed Russell Martin to what was perceived to be an exorbitant contract at the time; other clubs took notice and subsequently framing has become an important part of how clubs estimate catcher value. There are also numerous public analyses and articles on the subject. It's real, if anything its impact is underestimated although it has diminished slightly as umpires have become more aware.

---

The umps have done it to themselves by not unifying on a zone. The old arm pit to top of knee worked.

It did.  But if they used that as a zone today, no one would hit above .220.  Players bristle if a strike is called on a pitch above the belt.  With launch angles being the rage, and pitchers casually throwing 95 plus, a fastball at the armpits is darn near unhittable (and if hit, a pop up).

OTOH, it might cause hitters to adjust, level swings a bit and bring back contact hitters. 

I’m against robot umps.  The human element is part of the game. And I say that despite the home plate ump screwing Bryant and the Giants on two pitches in the 4th inning of game 5.  Should’ve been first and second, no outs.  With an at the time a tad shaky Urias on the mound. Still pisses me off…..

Too many umps base their call on whether the pitch hits at or near the target, as opposed to just calling the zone. Heck, Greg Maddox lived 4 inches off the outside corner.  Course, he could put the ball in a tin cup 9 out of 10 times. Pitched a complete game  on 77 pitches once.  Today that gets pitchers through about 4 innings…..

Very true on all counts, except that I strongly disagree about umpires being part of the human element. What makes sports fascinating is to observe how players deal with pressure, with adversity, with different game situations that require quick thinking, etc. Umpires inserting randomness to the point of a game not being decided by the players themselves is a human element that I can do without. Armando Gallaraga deprived of a perfect game or the Cardinals possibly deprived of a World Series by Don Denkinger undermines the game. An umpire inserting an element of random chance and affecting the outcome of the game doesn't enhance my enjoyment, in fact it detracts from it even if it helps my team. The real human element is awesome, but umpires should be robotic (either literally or figuratively.)

[Phogge]

DC, Bobbb, Lex and Giants. How many of you guys pitched in college or in very high level semipro?

There was an almost universal strike zone so the pitchers had a VERY GOOD idea where the zone was. The hitters, unless they were brain damaged like the guys in Chico, knew it too. Made a better game.

I don't care if the zone is armpits to knee or dick to socks it shouldn't vary between umps. Lex, I prefer human error too but there is no recognized base zone and no matter what MLB says there isn't.

Plus nobody ever called them "Blue." It's a bush term.

[Phogge]

DC, Bobbb, Lex and Giants. How many of you guys pitched in college or in very high level semipro?

There was an almost universal strike zone so the pitchers had a VERY GOOD idea where the zone was. The hitters, unless they were brain damaged like the guys in Chico, knew it too. Made a better game.

I don't care if the zone is armpits to knee or dick to socks it shouldn't vary between umps. Lex, I prefer human error too but there is no recognized base zone and no matter what MLB says there isn't.

Plus nobody ever called them "Blue." It's a bush term.

[Mick]

DC, Bobbb, Lex and Giants. How many of you guys pitched in college or in very high level semipro?

There was an almost universal strike zone so the pitchers had a VERY GOOD idea where the zone was. The hitters, unless they were brain damaged like the guys in Chico, knew it too. Made a better game.

I don't care if the zone is armpits to knee or dick to socks it shouldn't vary between umps. Lex, I prefer human error too but there is no recognized base zone and no matter what MLB says there isn't.

Plus nobody ever called them "Blue." It's a bush term.

I think that's literally accurate.  "Blue" is used sometimes in the very low minors and seldom then, "Ump" in the mid minors, and as I understand it, the majority of managers refer to umpires by their first name.

I don't care for human error.  I think it detracts from, rather than adds to the game. I hated Eric Gregg's five-inches-outside-the-strike-zone-is-still-a-strike

[Mick]

DC, Bobbb, Lex and Giants. How many of you guys pitched in college or in very high level semipro?

There was an almost universal strike zone so the pitchers had a VERY GOOD idea where the zone was. The hitters, unless they were brain damaged like the guys in Chico, knew it too. Made a better game.

I don't care if the zone is armpits to knee or dick to socks it shouldn't vary between umps. Lex, I prefer human error too but there is no recognized base zone and no matter what MLB says there isn't.

Plus nobody ever called them "Blue." It's a bush term.

I think that's literally accurate.  "Blue" is used sometimes in the very low minors and seldom then, "Ump" in the mid minors, and as I understand it, the majority of managers refer to umpires by their first name.

I don't care for human error.  I think it detracts from, rather than adds to the game. I hated Eric Gregg's five-inches-outside-the-strike-zone-is-still-a-strike

[Giants]

DC, Bobbb, Lex and Giants. How many of you guys pitched in college or in very high level semipro?

There was an almost universal strike zone so the pitchers had a VERY GOOD idea where the zone was. The hitters, unless they were brain damaged like the guys in Chico, knew it too. Made a better game.

I don't care if the zone is armpits to knee or dick to socks it shouldn't vary between umps. Lex, I prefer human error too but there is no recognized base zone and no matter what MLB says there isn't.

Plus nobody ever called them "Blue." It's a bush term.

Never played at that level but did ump games.  

Every big league ump has a strike zone.  The issue, as expressed regularly by Mike Krukow, is consistency.  If you are giving the pitcher the off the plate a bit away from the hitter pitch, then call that pitch a strike every time.  At the beginning of games, Kruk goes over the ump’s tendencies and sets the stage for the game.  As long as the ump is consistent, Kruk cuts the guy slack on his calls.

Until we receive an electronic system, this is what we will have to live with.

[Giants]

DC, Bobbb, Lex and Giants. How many of you guys pitched in college or in very high level semipro?

There was an almost universal strike zone so the pitchers had a VERY GOOD idea where the zone was. The hitters, unless they were brain damaged like the guys in Chico, knew it too. Made a better game.

I don't care if the zone is armpits to knee or dick to socks it shouldn't vary between umps. Lex, I prefer human error too but there is no recognized base zone and no matter what MLB says there isn't.

Plus nobody ever called them "Blue." It's a bush term.

Never played at that level but did ump games.  

Every big league ump has a strike zone.  The issue, as expressed regularly by Mike Krukow, is consistency.  If you are giving the pitcher the off the plate a bit away from the hitter pitch, then call that pitch a strike every time.  At the beginning of games, Kruk goes over the ump’s tendencies and sets the stage for the game.  As long as the ump is consistent, Kruk cuts the guy slack on his calls.

Until we receive an electronic system, this is what we will have to live with.

[Phogge]

We didn't live with it back in the day. And these were college and knowledgeable local umps who worked games with the McDougald's, the Coleman's, the Martin's, the Dennis Bennant's yada yada yada. Most every local guy that I knew were umping Bay Area games when those guys were playing. Sure, they missed some and sometimes they did three games a day and were bushed. But 5'4" Lou Anti and 6' something Turkey Joe at Hennessey Field called a very similar game.

OK so we and everyone else lives with it. Doesn't mean that we like it and I hope Krukow doesn't. The umps have way too much power today.

[Phogge]

We didn't live with it back in the day. And these were college and knowledgeable local umps who worked games with the McDougald's, the Coleman's, the Martin's, the Dennis Bennant's yada yada yada. Most every local guy that I knew were umping Bay Area games when those guys were playing. Sure, they missed some and sometimes they did three games a day and were bushed. But 5'4" Lou Anti and 6' something Turkey Joe at Hennessey Field called a very similar game.

OK so we and everyone else lives with it. Doesn't mean that we like it and I hope Krukow doesn't. The umps have way too much power today.