[lex24]

DC, Bobbb, Lex and Giants. How many of you guys pitched in college or in very high level semipro?

There was an almost universal strike zone so the pitchers had a VERY GOOD idea where the zone was. The hitters, unless they were brain damaged like the guys in Chico, knew it too. Made a better game.

I don't care if the zone is armpits to knee or dick to socks it shouldn't vary between umps. Lex, I prefer human error too but there is no recognized base zone and no matter what MLB says there isn't.

Plus nobody ever called them "Blue." It's a bush term.

Never played at that level but did ump games.  

Every big league ump has a strike zone.  The issue, as expressed regularly by Mike Krukow, is consistency.  If you are giving the pitcher the off the plate a bit away from the hitter pitch, then call that pitch a strike every time.  At the beginning of games, Kruk goes over the ump’s tendencies and sets the stage for the game.  As long as the ump is consistent, Kruk cuts the guy slack on his calls.

Until we receive an electronic system, this is what we will have to live with.

Here is my question:  is this a relatively new (last 30 years or so) development?  Or have MLB umps always had their own zone?

Every game didn’t used to be on TV.  And the strike zone box (or whatever they call it) is a relatively new item.  So every pitch is subjected to analysis with the help of the cut out.

I don’t remember this being  talked about in the days of yore.  But that may be more of a function of the technology and the fact every game is televised.

If I’m running MLB I have a strike zone that is mandatory. Mid-knee to the letters.  And I judge a home plate ump on how the game is called against that zone. 

You don’t get extra width. Or pitches below the knee.  Largely to compensate for the top of the zone being taken away.

Course, it’s not enforceable.  Umps have their own Union.

[lex24]

DC, Bobbb, Lex and Giants. How many of you guys pitched in college or in very high level semipro?

There was an almost universal strike zone so the pitchers had a VERY GOOD idea where the zone was. The hitters, unless they were brain damaged like the guys in Chico, knew it too. Made a better game.

I don't care if the zone is armpits to knee or dick to socks it shouldn't vary between umps. Lex, I prefer human error too but there is no recognized base zone and no matter what MLB says there isn't.

Plus nobody ever called them "Blue." It's a bush term.

Never played at that level but did ump games.  

Every big league ump has a strike zone.  The issue, as expressed regularly by Mike Krukow, is consistency.  If you are giving the pitcher the off the plate a bit away from the hitter pitch, then call that pitch a strike every time.  At the beginning of games, Kruk goes over the ump’s tendencies and sets the stage for the game.  As long as the ump is consistent, Kruk cuts the guy slack on his calls.

Until we receive an electronic system, this is what we will have to live with.

Here is my question:  is this a relatively new (last 30 years or so) development?  Or have MLB umps always had their own zone?

Every game didn’t used to be on TV.  And the strike zone box (or whatever they call it) is a relatively new item.  So every pitch is subjected to analysis with the help of the cut out.

I don’t remember this being  talked about in the days of yore.  But that may be more of a function of the technology and the fact every game is televised.

If I’m running MLB I have a strike zone that is mandatory. Mid-knee to the letters.  And I judge a home plate ump on how the game is called against that zone. 

You don’t get extra width. Or pitches below the knee.  Largely to compensate for the top of the zone being taken away.

Course, it’s not enforceable.  Umps have their own Union.

[Phogge]

I don't really know but I think the zone was pretty uniform. From the mound I believe that the local Bay Area umps had a pretty consistent zone. I think that the old zone in MLB was pretty uniform too. Center field cameras were in use for Game of the Week mid Sixties. For years all the Giants games that were locally broadcast were the Dodgers and .. the Dodgers. There was a riot directed at the Potrero Hill police station on Third Street in 1967 and the Giants arranged a telecast of a road game the next night (Braves). The C T was that people would watch a novelty game and not go out to toss Molotoff cocktails. As more and more games came to TV more and more CF cameras were utilized. I don't remember any crusade over balls and strikes even with the increased exposure to clear shot of the strike zone.

[Phogge]

I don't really know but I think the zone was pretty uniform. From the mound I believe that the local Bay Area umps had a pretty consistent zone. I think that the old zone in MLB was pretty uniform too. Center field cameras were in use for Game of the Week mid Sixties. For years all the Giants games that were locally broadcast were the Dodgers and .. the Dodgers. There was a riot directed at the Potrero Hill police station on Third Street in 1967 and the Giants arranged a telecast of a road game the next night (Braves). The C T was that people would watch a novelty game and not go out to toss Molotoff cocktails. As more and more games came to TV more and more CF cameras were utilized. I don't remember any crusade over balls and strikes even with the increased exposure to clear shot of the strike zone.

[DC 86]

If I’m running MLB I have a strike zone that is mandatory. Mid-knee to the letters.  And I judge a home plate ump on how the game is called against that zone. 

You don’t get extra width. Or pitches below the knee.  Largely to compensate for the top of the zone being taken away.

Course, it’s not enforceable.  Umps have their own Union.

They already have that, and they even publish the grades, but as you said the umpires union is too strong, so there are no real consequences for having an inaccurate strike zone.

[DC 86]

If I’m running MLB I have a strike zone that is mandatory. Mid-knee to the letters.  And I judge a home plate ump on how the game is called against that zone. 

You don’t get extra width. Or pitches below the knee.  Largely to compensate for the top of the zone being taken away.

Course, it’s not enforceable.  Umps have their own Union.

They already have that, and they even publish the grades, but as you said the umpires union is too strong, so there are no real consequences for having an inaccurate strike zone.

[Giants]

Name a catcher and the year he won the gold glove when he didn't fit the Top Five of any of the following categories as a catcher:

1) Defensive games
2) Putouts
3) Caught Stealing percentage
4) Double Plays
5) Caught Stealing

Jacob Stallings, 2021, Pittsburgh.  Won the NL Gold Glove without finishing in the top Five in any of the above categories.

Not only is he not in the top five for any of the above categories, but his range factor is substantially below that of league average.  True, Stallings had 0 passed balls -- his big claim to fame, it sure isn't hitting -- but I don't think that's a significant metric.  Posey only had 2 passed balls all year and 27 in his career.  Stallings also had 35 wild pitches this year, Posey only had 18...but whatever.  Stallings threw out just 21% of stolen base attempts (Posey threw out 31%, league average is 25%).

I'm not saying it should have been Posey.  But Stallings is a real reach, IMHO.

Stallings had a great year in advanced fielding metrics.  For example, he led the Majors in Defensive Runs Saved by a wide margin and he was in the Top 5 in Framing and Defensive Runs Above Average.

Defensive ability is no longer measured by the traditional stats.  It is all about advanced metrics now.

He was 1st in total Defensive Runs saved by a of immense proportions margin (21 vs. Austin Hedges, who had 12), T4 for framing (rSZ) and 5th in FRM (another framing measure), 25th in rSB (Stolen Base Runs Above Average), 3rd in rCERA (essentially handling a pitching staff), 1st in rGFP (good fielding plays) and 5th in (Fielding Runs Above Average+ Ultimate Zone Rating)

…and those are Gold Glove stats.  I think Stallings earned the award this year.  

One other note re: Stallings.  He is 6’5”.  I can’t think of too many catchers who are that tall.

[Giants]

Name a catcher and the year he won the gold glove when he didn't fit the Top Five of any of the following categories as a catcher:

1) Defensive games
2) Putouts
3) Caught Stealing percentage
4) Double Plays
5) Caught Stealing

Jacob Stallings, 2021, Pittsburgh.  Won the NL Gold Glove without finishing in the top Five in any of the above categories.

Not only is he not in the top five for any of the above categories, but his range factor is substantially below that of league average.  True, Stallings had 0 passed balls -- his big claim to fame, it sure isn't hitting -- but I don't think that's a significant metric.  Posey only had 2 passed balls all year and 27 in his career.  Stallings also had 35 wild pitches this year, Posey only had 18...but whatever.  Stallings threw out just 21% of stolen base attempts (Posey threw out 31%, league average is 25%).

I'm not saying it should have been Posey.  But Stallings is a real reach, IMHO.

Stallings had a great year in advanced fielding metrics.  For example, he led the Majors in Defensive Runs Saved by a wide margin and he was in the Top 5 in Framing and Defensive Runs Above Average.

Defensive ability is no longer measured by the traditional stats.  It is all about advanced metrics now.

He was 1st in total Defensive Runs saved by a of immense proportions margin (21 vs. Austin Hedges, who had 12), T4 for framing (rSZ) and 5th in FRM (another framing measure), 25th in rSB (Stolen Base Runs Above Average), 3rd in rCERA (essentially handling a pitching staff), 1st in rGFP (good fielding plays) and 5th in (Fielding Runs Above Average+ Ultimate Zone Rating)

…and those are Gold Glove stats.  I think Stallings earned the award this year.  

One other note re: Stallings.  He is 6’5”.  I can’t think of too many catchers who are that tall.

[lex24]

Name a catcher and the year he won the gold glove when he didn't fit the Top Five of any of the following categories as a catcher:

1) Defensive games
2) Putouts
3) Caught Stealing percentage
4) Double Plays
5) Caught Stealing

Jacob Stallings, 2021, Pittsburgh.  Won the NL Gold Glove without finishing in the top Five in any of the above categories.

Not only is he not in the top five for any of the above categories, but his range factor is substantially below that of league average.  True, Stallings had 0 passed balls -- his big claim to fame, it sure isn't hitting -- but I don't think that's a significant metric.  Posey only had 2 passed balls all year and 27 in his career.  Stallings also had 35 wild pitches this year, Posey only had 18...but whatever.  Stallings threw out just 21% of stolen base attempts (Posey threw out 31%, league average is 25%).

I'm not saying it should have been Posey.  But Stallings is a real reach, IMHO.

Stallings had a great year in advanced fielding metrics.  For example, he led the Majors in Defensive Runs Saved by a wide margin and he was in the Top 5 in Framing and Defensive Runs Above Average.

Defensive ability is no longer measured by the traditional stats.  It is all about advanced metrics now.

He was 1st in total Defensive Runs saved by a of immense proportions margin (21 vs. Austin Hedges, who had 12), T4 for framing (rSZ) and 5th in FRM (another framing measure), 25th in rSB (Stolen Base Runs Above Average), 3rd in rCERA (essentially handling a pitching staff), 1st in rGFP (good fielding plays) and 5th in (Fielding Runs Above Average+ Ultimate Zone Rating)

…and those are Gold Glove stats.  I think Stallings earned the award this year.  

One other note re: Stallings.  He is 6’5”.  I can’t think,of too many catchers who are that tall.

Tom Haller!

[lex24]

Name a catcher and the year he won the gold glove when he didn't fit the Top Five of any of the following categories as a catcher:

1) Defensive games
2) Putouts
3) Caught Stealing percentage
4) Double Plays
5) Caught Stealing

Jacob Stallings, 2021, Pittsburgh.  Won the NL Gold Glove without finishing in the top Five in any of the above categories.

Not only is he not in the top five for any of the above categories, but his range factor is substantially below that of league average.  True, Stallings had 0 passed balls -- his big claim to fame, it sure isn't hitting -- but I don't think that's a significant metric.  Posey only had 2 passed balls all year and 27 in his career.  Stallings also had 35 wild pitches this year, Posey only had 18...but whatever.  Stallings threw out just 21% of stolen base attempts (Posey threw out 31%, league average is 25%).

I'm not saying it should have been Posey.  But Stallings is a real reach, IMHO.

Stallings had a great year in advanced fielding metrics.  For example, he led the Majors in Defensive Runs Saved by a wide margin and he was in the Top 5 in Framing and Defensive Runs Above Average.

Defensive ability is no longer measured by the traditional stats.  It is all about advanced metrics now.

He was 1st in total Defensive Runs saved by a of immense proportions margin (21 vs. Austin Hedges, who had 12), T4 for framing (rSZ) and 5th in FRM (another framing measure), 25th in rSB (Stolen Base Runs Above Average), 3rd in rCERA (essentially handling a pitching staff), 1st in rGFP (good fielding plays) and 5th in (Fielding Runs Above Average+ Ultimate Zone Rating)

…and those are Gold Glove stats.  I think Stallings earned the award this year.  

One other note re: Stallings.  He is 6’5”.  I can’t think,of too many catchers who are that tall.

Tom Haller!

[Giants]

DC, Bobbb, Lex and Giants. How many of you guys pitched in college or in very high level semipro?

There was an almost universal strike zone so the pitchers had a VERY GOOD idea where the zone was. The hitters, unless they were brain damaged like the guys in Chico, knew it too. Made a better game.

I don't care if the zone is armpits to knee or dick to socks it shouldn't vary between umps. Lex, I prefer human error too but there is no recognized base zone and no matter what MLB says there isn't.

Plus nobody ever called them "Blue." It's a bush term.

Never played at that level but did ump games.  

Every big league ump has a strike zone.  The issue, as expressed regularly by Mike Krukow, is consistency.  If you are giving the pitcher the off the plate a bit away from the hitter pitch, then call that pitch a strike every time.  At the beginning of games, Kruk goes over the ump’s tendencies and sets the stage for the game.  As long as the ump is consistent, Kruk cuts the guy slack on his calls.

Until we receive an electronic system, this is what we will have to live with.

Here is my question:  is this a relatively new (last 30 years or so) development?  Or have MLB umps always had their own zone?

Every game didn’t used to be on TV.  And the strike zone box (or whatever they call it) is a relatively new item.  So every pitch is subjected to analysis with the help of the cut out.

I don’t remember this being  talked about in the days of yore.  But that may be more of a function of the technology and the fact every game is televised.

If I’m running MLB I have a strike zone that is mandatory. Mid-knee to the letters.  And I judge a home plate ump on how the game is called against that zone. 

You don’t get extra width. Or pitches below the knee.  Largely to compensate for the top of the zone being taken away.

Course, it’s not enforceable.  Umps have their own Union.

I think technology has everything to do with this discussion.  I can’t believe this is something new.  Rather, I think MLB umps have always had their own strike zone.  Heck, I can remember when AL umps wore their chest protector outside their jacket and commentators always made a note of how that impacted their calls relative to NL umps who wore their chest protector inside their jacket.

---

Jacob Stallings, 2021, Pittsburgh.  Won the NL Gold Glove without finishing in the top Five in any of the above categories.

Not only is he not in the top five for any of the above categories, but his range factor is substantially below that of league average.  True, Stallings had 0 passed balls -- his big claim to fame, it sure isn't hitting -- but I don't think that's a significant metric.  Posey only had 2 passed balls all year and 27 in his career.  Stallings also had 35 wild pitches this year, Posey only had 18...but whatever.  Stallings threw out just 21% of stolen base attempts (Posey threw out 31%, league average is 25%).

I'm not saying it should have been Posey.  But Stallings is a real reach, IMHO.

Stallings had a great year in advanced fielding metrics.  For example, he led the Majors in Defensive Runs Saved by a wide margin and he was in the Top 5 in Framing and Defensive Runs Above Average.

Defensive ability is no longer measured by the traditional stats.  It is all about advanced metrics now.

He was 1st in total Defensive Runs saved by a of immense proportions margin (21 vs. Austin Hedges, who had 12), T4 for framing (rSZ) and 5th in FRM (another framing measure), 25th in rSB (Stolen Base Runs Above Average), 3rd in rCERA (essentially handling a pitching staff), 1st in rGFP (good fielding plays) and 5th in (Fielding Runs Above Average+ Ultimate Zone Rating)

…and those are Gold Glove stats.  I think Stallings earned the award this year.  

One other note re: Stallings.  He is 6’5”.  I can’t think,of too many catchers who are that tall.

Tom Haller!

Tom was a big guy…. 

He caught pitches during my one at bat at Candlestick (I won the chance to hit a home run between games of a doubleheader years ago).  McCormick was dealing some fast pitches that day. No, I did not knock one over the fence.  A fly ball to medium deep centerfield was my best shot.

[Giants]

DC, Bobbb, Lex and Giants. How many of you guys pitched in college or in very high level semipro?

There was an almost universal strike zone so the pitchers had a VERY GOOD idea where the zone was. The hitters, unless they were brain damaged like the guys in Chico, knew it too. Made a better game.

I don't care if the zone is armpits to knee or dick to socks it shouldn't vary between umps. Lex, I prefer human error too but there is no recognized base zone and no matter what MLB says there isn't.

Plus nobody ever called them "Blue." It's a bush term.

Never played at that level but did ump games.  

Every big league ump has a strike zone.  The issue, as expressed regularly by Mike Krukow, is consistency.  If you are giving the pitcher the off the plate a bit away from the hitter pitch, then call that pitch a strike every time.  At the beginning of games, Kruk goes over the ump’s tendencies and sets the stage for the game.  As long as the ump is consistent, Kruk cuts the guy slack on his calls.

Until we receive an electronic system, this is what we will have to live with.

Here is my question:  is this a relatively new (last 30 years or so) development?  Or have MLB umps always had their own zone?

Every game didn’t used to be on TV.  And the strike zone box (or whatever they call it) is a relatively new item.  So every pitch is subjected to analysis with the help of the cut out.

I don’t remember this being  talked about in the days of yore.  But that may be more of a function of the technology and the fact every game is televised.

If I’m running MLB I have a strike zone that is mandatory. Mid-knee to the letters.  And I judge a home plate ump on how the game is called against that zone. 

You don’t get extra width. Or pitches below the knee.  Largely to compensate for the top of the zone being taken away.

Course, it’s not enforceable.  Umps have their own Union.

I think technology has everything to do with this discussion.  I can’t believe this is something new.  Rather, I think MLB umps have always had their own strike zone.  Heck, I can remember when AL umps wore their chest protector outside their jacket and commentators always made a note of how that impacted their calls relative to NL umps who wore their chest protector inside their jacket.

---

Jacob Stallings, 2021, Pittsburgh.  Won the NL Gold Glove without finishing in the top Five in any of the above categories.

Not only is he not in the top five for any of the above categories, but his range factor is substantially below that of league average.  True, Stallings had 0 passed balls -- his big claim to fame, it sure isn't hitting -- but I don't think that's a significant metric.  Posey only had 2 passed balls all year and 27 in his career.  Stallings also had 35 wild pitches this year, Posey only had 18...but whatever.  Stallings threw out just 21% of stolen base attempts (Posey threw out 31%, league average is 25%).

I'm not saying it should have been Posey.  But Stallings is a real reach, IMHO.

Stallings had a great year in advanced fielding metrics.  For example, he led the Majors in Defensive Runs Saved by a wide margin and he was in the Top 5 in Framing and Defensive Runs Above Average.

Defensive ability is no longer measured by the traditional stats.  It is all about advanced metrics now.

He was 1st in total Defensive Runs saved by a of immense proportions margin (21 vs. Austin Hedges, who had 12), T4 for framing (rSZ) and 5th in FRM (another framing measure), 25th in rSB (Stolen Base Runs Above Average), 3rd in rCERA (essentially handling a pitching staff), 1st in rGFP (good fielding plays) and 5th in (Fielding Runs Above Average+ Ultimate Zone Rating)

…and those are Gold Glove stats.  I think Stallings earned the award this year.  

One other note re: Stallings.  He is 6’5”.  I can’t think,of too many catchers who are that tall.

Tom Haller!

Tom was a big guy…. 

He caught pitches during my one at bat at Candlestick (I won the chance to hit a home run between games of a doubleheader years ago).  McCormick was dealing some fast pitches that day. No, I did not knock one over the fence.  A fly ball to medium deep centerfield was my best shot.

[lex24]

DC, Bobbb, Lex and Giants. How many of you guys pitched in college or in very high level semipro?

There was an almost universal strike zone so the pitchers had a VERY GOOD idea where the zone was. The hitters, unless they were brain damaged like the guys in Chico, knew it too. Made a better game.

I don't care if the zone is armpits to knee or dick to socks it shouldn't vary between umps. Lex, I prefer human error too but there is no recognized base zone and no matter what MLB says there isn't.

Plus nobody ever called them "Blue." It's a bush term.

Never played at that level but did ump games.  

Every big league ump has a strike zone.  The issue, as expressed regularly by Mike Krukow, is consistency.  If you are giving the pitcher the off the plate a bit away from the hitter pitch, then call that pitch a strike every time.  At the beginning of games, Kruk goes over the ump’s tendencies and sets the stage for the game.  As long as the ump is consistent, Kruk cuts the guy slack on his calls.

Until we receive an electronic system, this is what we will have to live with.

Here is my question:  is this a relatively new (last 30 years or so) development?  Or have MLB umps always had their own zone?

Every game didn’t used to be on TV.  And the strike zone box (or whatever they call it) is a relatively new item.  So every pitch is subjected to analysis with the help of the cut out.

I don’t remember this being  talked about in the days of yore.  But that may be more of a function of the technology and the fact every game is televised.

If I’m running MLB I have a strike zone that is mandatory. Mid-knee to the letters.  And I judge a home plate ump on how the game is called against that zone. 

You don’t get extra width. Or pitches below the knee.  Largely to compensate for the top of the zone being taken away.

Course, it’s not enforceable.  Umps have their own Union.

I think technology has everything to do with this discussion.  I can’t believe this is something new.  Rather, I think MLB umps have always had their own strike zone.  Heck, I can remember when AL umps wore their chest protector outside their jacket and commentators always made a note of how that impacted their calls relative to NL umps who wore their chest protector inside their jacket.

---

Stallings had a great year in advanced fielding metrics.  For example, he led the Majors in Defensive Runs Saved by a wide margin and he was in the Top 5 in Framing and Defensive Runs Above Average.

Defensive ability is no longer measured by the traditional stats.  It is all about advanced metrics now.

He was 1st in total Defensive Runs saved by a of immense proportions margin (21 vs. Austin Hedges, who had 12), T4 for framing (rSZ) and 5th in FRM (another framing measure), 25th in rSB (Stolen Base Runs Above Average), 3rd in rCERA (essentially handling a pitching staff), 1st in rGFP (good fielding plays) and 5th in (Fielding Runs Above Average+ Ultimate Zone Rating)

…and those are Gold Glove stats.  I think Stallings earned the award this year.  

One other note re: Stallings.  He is 6’5”.  I can’t think,of too many catchers who are that tall.

Tom Haller!

Tom was a big guy…. 

He caught pitches during my one at bat at Candlestick (I won the chance to hit a home run between games of a doubleheader years ago).  McCormick was dealing some fast pitches that day. No, I did not knock one over the fence.  A fly ball to medium deep centerfield was my best shot.

I’m impressed. I would have hit a ground ball up the middle….

[lex24]

DC, Bobbb, Lex and Giants. How many of you guys pitched in college or in very high level semipro?

There was an almost universal strike zone so the pitchers had a VERY GOOD idea where the zone was. The hitters, unless they were brain damaged like the guys in Chico, knew it too. Made a better game.

I don't care if the zone is armpits to knee or dick to socks it shouldn't vary between umps. Lex, I prefer human error too but there is no recognized base zone and no matter what MLB says there isn't.

Plus nobody ever called them "Blue." It's a bush term.

Never played at that level but did ump games.  

Every big league ump has a strike zone.  The issue, as expressed regularly by Mike Krukow, is consistency.  If you are giving the pitcher the off the plate a bit away from the hitter pitch, then call that pitch a strike every time.  At the beginning of games, Kruk goes over the ump’s tendencies and sets the stage for the game.  As long as the ump is consistent, Kruk cuts the guy slack on his calls.

Until we receive an electronic system, this is what we will have to live with.

Here is my question:  is this a relatively new (last 30 years or so) development?  Or have MLB umps always had their own zone?

Every game didn’t used to be on TV.  And the strike zone box (or whatever they call it) is a relatively new item.  So every pitch is subjected to analysis with the help of the cut out.

I don’t remember this being  talked about in the days of yore.  But that may be more of a function of the technology and the fact every game is televised.

If I’m running MLB I have a strike zone that is mandatory. Mid-knee to the letters.  And I judge a home plate ump on how the game is called against that zone. 

You don’t get extra width. Or pitches below the knee.  Largely to compensate for the top of the zone being taken away.

Course, it’s not enforceable.  Umps have their own Union.

I think technology has everything to do with this discussion.  I can’t believe this is something new.  Rather, I think MLB umps have always had their own strike zone.  Heck, I can remember when AL umps wore their chest protector outside their jacket and commentators always made a note of how that impacted their calls relative to NL umps who wore their chest protector inside their jacket.

---

Stallings had a great year in advanced fielding metrics.  For example, he led the Majors in Defensive Runs Saved by a wide margin and he was in the Top 5 in Framing and Defensive Runs Above Average.

Defensive ability is no longer measured by the traditional stats.  It is all about advanced metrics now.

He was 1st in total Defensive Runs saved by a of immense proportions margin (21 vs. Austin Hedges, who had 12), T4 for framing (rSZ) and 5th in FRM (another framing measure), 25th in rSB (Stolen Base Runs Above Average), 3rd in rCERA (essentially handling a pitching staff), 1st in rGFP (good fielding plays) and 5th in (Fielding Runs Above Average+ Ultimate Zone Rating)

…and those are Gold Glove stats.  I think Stallings earned the award this year.  

One other note re: Stallings.  He is 6’5”.  I can’t think,of too many catchers who are that tall.

Tom Haller!

Tom was a big guy…. 

He caught pitches during my one at bat at Candlestick (I won the chance to hit a home run between games of a doubleheader years ago).  McCormick was dealing some fast pitches that day. No, I did not knock one over the fence.  A fly ball to medium deep centerfield was my best shot.

I’m impressed. I would have hit a ground ball up the middle….

[Giants]

DC, Bobbb, Lex and Giants. How many of you guys pitched in college or in very high level semipro?

There was an almost universal strike zone so the pitchers had a VERY GOOD idea where the zone was. The hitters, unless they were brain damaged like the guys in Chico, knew it too. Made a better game.

I don't care if the zone is armpits to knee or dick to socks it shouldn't vary between umps. Lex, I prefer human error too but there is no recognized base zone and no matter what MLB says there isn't.

Plus nobody ever called them "Blue." It's a bush term.

Never played at that level but did ump games.  

Every big league ump has a strike zone.  The issue, as expressed regularly by Mike Krukow, is consistency.  If you are giving the pitcher the off the plate a bit away from the hitter pitch, then call that pitch a strike every time.  At the beginning of games, Kruk goes over the ump’s tendencies and sets the stage for the game.  As long as the ump is consistent, Kruk cuts the guy slack on his calls.

Until we receive an electronic system, this is what we will have to live with.

Here is my question:  is this a relatively new (last 30 years or so) development?  Or have MLB umps always had their own zone?

Every game didn’t used to be on TV.  And the strike zone box (or whatever they call it) is a relatively new item.  So every pitch is subjected to analysis with the help of the cut out.

I don’t remember this being  talked about in the days of yore.  But that may be more of a function of the technology and the fact every game is televised.

If I’m running MLB I have a strike zone that is mandatory. Mid-knee to the letters.  And I judge a home plate ump on how the game is called against that zone. 

You don’t get extra width. Or pitches below the knee.  Largely to compensate for the top of the zone being taken away.

Course, it’s not enforceable.  Umps have their own Union.

I think technology has everything to do with this discussion.  I can’t believe this is something new.  Rather, I think MLB umps have always had their own strike zone.  Heck, I can remember when AL umps wore their chest protector outside their jacket and commentators always made a note of how that impacted their calls relative to NL umps who wore their chest protector inside their jacket.

---

He was 1st in total Defensive Runs saved by a of immense proportions margin (21 vs. Austin Hedges, who had 12), T4 for framing (rSZ) and 5th in FRM (another framing measure), 25th in rSB (Stolen Base Runs Above Average), 3rd in rCERA (essentially handling a pitching staff), 1st in rGFP (good fielding plays) and 5th in (Fielding Runs Above Average+ Ultimate Zone Rating)

…and those are Gold Glove stats.  I think Stallings earned the award this year.  

One other note re: Stallings.  He is 6’5”.  I can’t think,of too many catchers who are that tall.

Tom Haller!

Tom was a big guy…. 

He caught pitches during my one at bat at Candlestick (I won the chance to hit a home run between games of a doubleheader years ago).  McCormick was dealing some fast pitches that day. No, I did not knock one over the fence.  A fly ball to medium deep centerfield was my best shot.

I’m impressed. I would have hit a ground ball up the middle….

Well, if he had mixed some breaking balls into his pitches, I would have been lucky to hit a foul ball.

[Giants]

DC, Bobbb, Lex and Giants. How many of you guys pitched in college or in very high level semipro?

There was an almost universal strike zone so the pitchers had a VERY GOOD idea where the zone was. The hitters, unless they were brain damaged like the guys in Chico, knew it too. Made a better game.

I don't care if the zone is armpits to knee or dick to socks it shouldn't vary between umps. Lex, I prefer human error too but there is no recognized base zone and no matter what MLB says there isn't.

Plus nobody ever called them "Blue." It's a bush term.

Never played at that level but did ump games.  

Every big league ump has a strike zone.  The issue, as expressed regularly by Mike Krukow, is consistency.  If you are giving the pitcher the off the plate a bit away from the hitter pitch, then call that pitch a strike every time.  At the beginning of games, Kruk goes over the ump’s tendencies and sets the stage for the game.  As long as the ump is consistent, Kruk cuts the guy slack on his calls.

Until we receive an electronic system, this is what we will have to live with.

Here is my question:  is this a relatively new (last 30 years or so) development?  Or have MLB umps always had their own zone?

Every game didn’t used to be on TV.  And the strike zone box (or whatever they call it) is a relatively new item.  So every pitch is subjected to analysis with the help of the cut out.

I don’t remember this being  talked about in the days of yore.  But that may be more of a function of the technology and the fact every game is televised.

If I’m running MLB I have a strike zone that is mandatory. Mid-knee to the letters.  And I judge a home plate ump on how the game is called against that zone. 

You don’t get extra width. Or pitches below the knee.  Largely to compensate for the top of the zone being taken away.

Course, it’s not enforceable.  Umps have their own Union.

I think technology has everything to do with this discussion.  I can’t believe this is something new.  Rather, I think MLB umps have always had their own strike zone.  Heck, I can remember when AL umps wore their chest protector outside their jacket and commentators always made a note of how that impacted their calls relative to NL umps who wore their chest protector inside their jacket.

---

He was 1st in total Defensive Runs saved by a of immense proportions margin (21 vs. Austin Hedges, who had 12), T4 for framing (rSZ) and 5th in FRM (another framing measure), 25th in rSB (Stolen Base Runs Above Average), 3rd in rCERA (essentially handling a pitching staff), 1st in rGFP (good fielding plays) and 5th in (Fielding Runs Above Average+ Ultimate Zone Rating)

…and those are Gold Glove stats.  I think Stallings earned the award this year.  

One other note re: Stallings.  He is 6’5”.  I can’t think,of too many catchers who are that tall.

Tom Haller!

Tom was a big guy…. 

He caught pitches during my one at bat at Candlestick (I won the chance to hit a home run between games of a doubleheader years ago).  McCormick was dealing some fast pitches that day. No, I did not knock one over the fence.  A fly ball to medium deep centerfield was my best shot.

I’m impressed. I would have hit a ground ball up the middle….

Well, if he had mixed some breaking balls into his pitches, I would have been lucky to hit a foul ball.

[Mick]

Jacob Stallings, 2021, Pittsburgh.  Won the NL Gold Glove without finishing in the top Five in any of the above categories.

Not only is he not in the top five for any of the above categories, but his range factor is substantially below that of league average.  True, Stallings had 0 passed balls -- his big claim to fame, it sure isn't hitting -- but I don't think that's a significant metric.  Posey only had 2 passed balls all year and 27 in his career.  Stallings also had 35 wild pitches this year, Posey only had 18...but whatever.  Stallings threw out just 21% of stolen base attempts (Posey threw out 31%, league average is 25%).

I'm not saying it should have been Posey.  But Stallings is a real reach, IMHO.

Stallings had a great year in advanced fielding metrics.  For example, he led the Majors in Defensive Runs Saved by a wide margin and he was in the Top 5 in Framing and Defensive Runs Above Average.

Defensive ability is no longer measured by the traditional stats.  It is all about advanced metrics now.

He was 1st in total Defensive Runs saved by a of immense proportions margin (21 vs. Austin Hedges, who had 12), T4 for framing (rSZ) and 5th in FRM (another framing measure), 25th in rSB (Stolen Base Runs Above Average), 3rd in rCERA (essentially handling a pitching staff), 1st in rGFP (good fielding plays) and 5th in (Fielding Runs Above Average+ Ultimate Zone Rating)

…and those are Gold Glove stats.  I think Stallings earned the award this year.  

One other note re: Stallings.  He is 6’5”.  I can’t think,of too many catchers who are that tall.

Tom Haller!

Mauer is 6'5", and so was Larry McLean, an early NY Giant.  Died in 1915 at the age of 39 when a saloon owner shot him.

Larry McLean Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

[Mick]

Jacob Stallings, 2021, Pittsburgh.  Won the NL Gold Glove without finishing in the top Five in any of the above categories.

Not only is he not in the top five for any of the above categories, but his range factor is substantially below that of league average.  True, Stallings had 0 passed balls -- his big claim to fame, it sure isn't hitting -- but I don't think that's a significant metric.  Posey only had 2 passed balls all year and 27 in his career.  Stallings also had 35 wild pitches this year, Posey only had 18...but whatever.  Stallings threw out just 21% of stolen base attempts (Posey threw out 31%, league average is 25%).

I'm not saying it should have been Posey.  But Stallings is a real reach, IMHO.

Stallings had a great year in advanced fielding metrics.  For example, he led the Majors in Defensive Runs Saved by a wide margin and he was in the Top 5 in Framing and Defensive Runs Above Average.

Defensive ability is no longer measured by the traditional stats.  It is all about advanced metrics now.

He was 1st in total Defensive Runs saved by a of immense proportions margin (21 vs. Austin Hedges, who had 12), T4 for framing (rSZ) and 5th in FRM (another framing measure), 25th in rSB (Stolen Base Runs Above Average), 3rd in rCERA (essentially handling a pitching staff), 1st in rGFP (good fielding plays) and 5th in (Fielding Runs Above Average+ Ultimate Zone Rating)

…and those are Gold Glove stats.  I think Stallings earned the award this year.  

One other note re: Stallings.  He is 6’5”.  I can’t think,of too many catchers who are that tall.

Tom Haller!

Mauer is 6'5", and so was Larry McLean, an early NY Giant.  Died in 1915 at the age of 39 when a saloon owner shot him.

Larry McLean Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

[DC 86]

Mauer is 6'5", and so was Larry McLean, an early NY Giant.  Died in 1915 at the age of 39 when a saloon owner shot him.

Larry McLean Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

Don't forget Matt Wieters, not only 6'5" but very imposing.

[DC 86]

Mauer is 6'5", and so was Larry McLean, an early NY Giant.  Died in 1915 at the age of 39 when a saloon owner shot him.

Larry McLean Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

Don't forget Matt Wieters, not only 6'5" but very imposing.

[BobK]

Tom Haller 6-4.

[BobK]

Tom Haller 6-4.

[qwerty49]

Tom Haller 6-4.

And a former QB at Illinois, IIRC.

[qwerty49]

Tom Haller 6-4.

And a former QB at Illinois, IIRC.

[Phogge]

Who is pro football's all time leader in combined rushing and passing? Ergo total offense.

Who is his Hall of Fame brother?

[Phogge]

Who is pro football's all time leader in combined rushing and passing? Ergo total offense.

Who is his Hall of Fame brother?

[qwerty49]

Who is pro football's all time leader in combined rushing and passing? Ergo total offense.

Who is his Hall of Fame brother?

Bill Kilmer and his brother Val?

Keith Richards and his brother Renee?

Am I getting close?

[qwerty49]

Who is pro football's all time leader in combined rushing and passing? Ergo total offense.

Who is his Hall of Fame brother?

Bill Kilmer and his brother Val?

Keith Richards and his brother Renee?

Am I getting close?

[Phogge]

No. It’s Aaron Rodgers and his cross dressing brother Ginger. Or maybe it’s Peyton Manning and his brother Chelsea. Or maybe it’s Joe Montana and his hermaphrodite brother Hannah.

[Phogge]

No. It’s Aaron Rodgers and his cross dressing brother Ginger. Or maybe it’s Peyton Manning and his brother Chelsea. Or maybe it’s Joe Montana and his hermaphrodite brother Hannah.

[Mick]

Who is pro football's all time leader in combined rushing and passing? Ergo total offense.

Who is his Hall of Fame brother?

Tom Brady and Greg Brady, who

[Mick]

Who is pro football's all time leader in combined rushing and passing? Ergo total offense.

Who is his Hall of Fame brother?

Tom Brady and Greg Brady, who

[Phogge]

Nope.

[Phogge]

Nope.

[BobK]

Drew Brees

[BobK]

Drew Brees

[BostonCard]

Who is pro football's all time leader in combined rushing and passing? Ergo total offense.

Who is his Hall of Fame brother?

Since you go out of your way to avoid saying it, I’m guessing it’s not an NFL player.  CFL?  AFL? SEC?

BC

[BostonCard]

Who is pro football's all time leader in combined rushing and passing? Ergo total offense.

Who is his Hall of Fame brother?

Since you go out of your way to avoid saying it, I’m guessing it’s not an NFL player.  CFL?  AFL? SEC?

BC

[Phogge]

BC, you naughty little boy. Correct.

[Phogge]

BC, you naughty little boy. Correct.