[Phogge]

You guys have a running in place AD. An incompetent fool who is presiding over the ruination of the two most important revenue sports in college athletics. Sure you have Tara but she was at Stanford during Geiger’s time. How many remember the previous womens’ coaches name?.........

The fool presided over the 11 sport fiasco and the bribery scandal. And he still remains? Shows you how much the university Executive Department gives a schit.

[Phogge]

You guys have a running in place AD. An incompetent fool who is presiding over the ruination of the two most important revenue sports in college athletics. Sure you have Tara but she was at Stanford during Geiger’s time. How many remember the previous womens’ coaches name?.........

The fool presided over the 11 sport fiasco and the bribery scandal. And he still remains? Shows you how much the university Executive Department gives a schit.

[gailtate]

You guys have a running in place AD. An incompetent fool who is presiding over the ruination of the two most important revenue sports in college athletics. Sure you have Tara but she was at Stanford during Geiger’s time. How many remember the previous womens’ coaches name?.........

The fool presided over the 11 sport fiasco and the bribery scandal. And he still remains? Shows you how much the university Executive Department gives a schit.

Chuck Taylor was the first AD I remember. Then Joe Ruetz, Andy Geiger, Ted Leland and Bob Bowlsby. Does anybody here rank Muir above any of these guys?

[gailtate]

You guys have a running in place AD. An incompetent fool who is presiding over the ruination of the two most important revenue sports in college athletics. Sure you have Tara but she was at Stanford during Geiger’s time. How many remember the previous womens’ coaches name?.........

The fool presided over the 11 sport fiasco and the bribery scandal. And he still remains? Shows you how much the university Executive Department gives a schit.

Chuck Taylor was the first AD I remember. Then Joe Ruetz, Andy Geiger, Ted Leland and Bob Bowlsby. Does anybody here rank Muir above any of these guys?

[BostonCard]

No, he doesn’t.  The Leland years were pretty lean for football, but at least we had Mike Montgomery and basketball (though I think he was a Geiger hire).  Regardless, though, Leland never had NCAA tier 1 sanctions, never had a scandal that saw a coach be sentenced to jail (1 day, but still), never tried to cancel sports, and then backtrack, and never presided over a sprawling deficit.

But the proble, as Phogge noted, starts above Muir.  MTL and Drell would be fine if there weren’t a div 1 athletics program at Stanford.  At least when Gerhart Casper was puzzled by the concept of collegiate athletics, his Provost was a phenomenal sports fan who is still talked about as a possible NFL commissioner.  Without an ally at the top, Muir’s replacement, though likely not to continue to dig holes, will still be limited in what they can accomplish.

BC

[BostonCard]

No, he doesn’t.  The Leland years were pretty lean for football, but at least we had Mike Montgomery and basketball (though I think he was a Geiger hire).  Regardless, though, Leland never had NCAA tier 1 sanctions, never had a scandal that saw a coach be sentenced to jail (1 day, but still), never tried to cancel sports, and then backtrack, and never presided over a sprawling deficit.

But the proble, as Phogge noted, starts above Muir.  MTL and Drell would be fine if there weren’t a div 1 athletics program at Stanford.  At least when Gerhart Casper was puzzled by the concept of collegiate athletics, his Provost was a phenomenal sports fan who is still talked about as a possible NFL commissioner.  Without an ally at the top, Muir’s replacement, though likely not to continue to dig holes, will still be limited in what they can accomplish.

BC

[Goose]

MTL and Drell would be fine if there weren’t a div 1 athletics program at Stanford.


BC

BC, I think there is far from universal agreement that this is the case.

[Goose]

MTL and Drell would be fine if there weren’t a div 1 athletics program at Stanford.


BC

BC, I think there is far from universal agreement that this is the case.

[gailtate]

No, he doesn’t.  The Leland years were pretty lean for football, but at least we had Mike Montgomery and basketball (though I think he was a Geiger hire).  Regardless, though, Leland never had NCAA tier 1 sanctions, never had a scandal that saw a coach be sentenced to jail (1 day, but still), never tried to cancel sports, and then backtrack, and never presided over a sprawling deficit.

But the proble, as Phogge noted, starts above Muir.  MTL and Drell would be fine if there weren’t a div 1 athletics program at Stanford.  At least when Gerhart Casper was puzzled by the concept of collegiate athletics, his Provost was a phenomenal sports fan who is still talked about as a possible NFL commissioner.  Without an ally at the top, Muir’s replacement, though likely not to continue to dig holes, will still be limited in what they can accomplish.

BC

Stanford has always been more inclined towards putting a platonic arm around big-time sports rather than a full-frontal embrace. Think Robin Mamlet (ugly thought I know). So far, I see MTL and P. Drell as the Axis of Benign Neglect for the future of FB and MBB. Depressing. The world doesn't need another Harvard or CalTech. It does need a full-bore Stanford.

[gailtate]

No, he doesn’t.  The Leland years were pretty lean for football, but at least we had Mike Montgomery and basketball (though I think he was a Geiger hire).  Regardless, though, Leland never had NCAA tier 1 sanctions, never had a scandal that saw a coach be sentenced to jail (1 day, but still), never tried to cancel sports, and then backtrack, and never presided over a sprawling deficit.

But the proble, as Phogge noted, starts above Muir.  MTL and Drell would be fine if there weren’t a div 1 athletics program at Stanford.  At least when Gerhart Casper was puzzled by the concept of collegiate athletics, his Provost was a phenomenal sports fan who is still talked about as a possible NFL commissioner.  Without an ally at the top, Muir’s replacement, though likely not to continue to dig holes, will still be limited in what they can accomplish.

BC

Stanford has always been more inclined towards putting a platonic arm around big-time sports rather than a full-frontal embrace. Think Robin Mamlet (ugly thought I know). So far, I see MTL and P. Drell as the Axis of Benign Neglect for the future of FB and MBB. Depressing. The world doesn't need another Harvard or CalTech. It does need a full-bore Stanford.

[JohnR34231]

No, he doesn’t.  The Leland years were pretty lean for football, but at least we had Mike Montgomery and basketball (though I think he was a Geiger hire).  Regardless, though, Leland never had NCAA tier 1 sanctions, never had a scandal that saw a coach be sentenced to jail (1 day, but still), never tried to cancel sports, and then backtrack, and never presided over a sprawling deficit.

But the proble, as Phogge noted, starts above Muir.  MTL and Drell would be fine if there weren’t a div 1 athletics program at Stanford.  At least when Gerhart Casper was puzzled by the concept of collegiate athletics, his Provost was a phenomenal sports fan who is still talked about as a possible NFL commissioner.  Without an ally at the top, Muir’s replacement, though likely not to continue to dig holes, will still be limited in what they can accomplish.

BC

Stanford has always been more inclined towards putting a platonic arm around big-time sports rather than a full-frontal embrace. Think Robin Mamlet (ugly thought I know). So far, I see MTL and P. Drell as the Axis of Benign Neglect for the future of FB and MBB. Depressing. The world doesn't need another Harvard or CalTech. It does need a full-bore Stanford.

It has always seemed to me that the primary goal of the school's head administrators was to distance Stanford from the football factories. If in doing that we could still have a successful team, great. If not, well so be it.

[JohnR34231]

No, he doesn’t.  The Leland years were pretty lean for football, but at least we had Mike Montgomery and basketball (though I think he was a Geiger hire).  Regardless, though, Leland never had NCAA tier 1 sanctions, never had a scandal that saw a coach be sentenced to jail (1 day, but still), never tried to cancel sports, and then backtrack, and never presided over a sprawling deficit.

But the proble, as Phogge noted, starts above Muir.  MTL and Drell would be fine if there weren’t a div 1 athletics program at Stanford.  At least when Gerhart Casper was puzzled by the concept of collegiate athletics, his Provost was a phenomenal sports fan who is still talked about as a possible NFL commissioner.  Without an ally at the top, Muir’s replacement, though likely not to continue to dig holes, will still be limited in what they can accomplish.

BC

Stanford has always been more inclined towards putting a platonic arm around big-time sports rather than a full-frontal embrace. Think Robin Mamlet (ugly thought I know). So far, I see MTL and P. Drell as the Axis of Benign Neglect for the future of FB and MBB. Depressing. The world doesn't need another Harvard or CalTech. It does need a full-bore Stanford.

It has always seemed to me that the primary goal of the school's head administrators was to distance Stanford from the football factories. If in doing that we could still have a successful team, great. If not, well so be it.

[gailtate]

No, he doesn’t.  The Leland years were pretty lean for football, but at least we had Mike Montgomery and basketball (though I think he was a Geiger hire).  Regardless, though, Leland never had NCAA tier 1 sanctions, never had a scandal that saw a coach be sentenced to jail (1 day, but still), never tried to cancel sports, and then backtrack, and never presided over a sprawling deficit.

But the proble, as Phogge noted, starts above Muir.  MTL and Drell would be fine if there weren’t a div 1 athletics program at Stanford.  At least when Gerhart Casper was puzzled by the concept of collegiate athletics, his Provost was a phenomenal sports fan who is still talked about as a possible NFL commissioner.  Without an ally at the top, Muir’s replacement, though likely not to continue to dig holes, will still be limited in what they can accomplish.

BC

Stanford has always been more inclined towards putting a platonic arm around big-time sports rather than a full-frontal embrace. Think Robin Mamlet (ugly thought I know). So far, I see MTL and P. Drell as the Axis of Benign Neglect for the future of FB and MBB. Depressing. The world doesn't need another Harvard or CalTech. It does need a full-bore Stanford.

It has always seemed to me that the primary goal of the school's head administrators was to distance Stanford from the football factories. If in doing that we could still have a successful team, great. If not, well so be it.

You imply resignation, as if the two things must inevitably be mutually exclusive. To me, what makes Stanford "Stanford" is the success it had fairly recently in football. It exploded the defeatist trope that you can't eat your academic cake and have Rose Bowls, too. You did. So, you can. So what if the NY6 games are typically associated with those "factories"? They're achievable. Yes, even for Stanford precisely because it's "Stanford". I didn't notice any erosion in the University's academic reputation or compromise in the mission due to having an elite football program. Hope to hell this isn't lost on MTL & Co. Hey, if it is, "so be it". BUT it did NOT have to be.

[gailtate]

No, he doesn’t.  The Leland years were pretty lean for football, but at least we had Mike Montgomery and basketball (though I think he was a Geiger hire).  Regardless, though, Leland never had NCAA tier 1 sanctions, never had a scandal that saw a coach be sentenced to jail (1 day, but still), never tried to cancel sports, and then backtrack, and never presided over a sprawling deficit.

But the proble, as Phogge noted, starts above Muir.  MTL and Drell would be fine if there weren’t a div 1 athletics program at Stanford.  At least when Gerhart Casper was puzzled by the concept of collegiate athletics, his Provost was a phenomenal sports fan who is still talked about as a possible NFL commissioner.  Without an ally at the top, Muir’s replacement, though likely not to continue to dig holes, will still be limited in what they can accomplish.

BC

Stanford has always been more inclined towards putting a platonic arm around big-time sports rather than a full-frontal embrace. Think Robin Mamlet (ugly thought I know). So far, I see MTL and P. Drell as the Axis of Benign Neglect for the future of FB and MBB. Depressing. The world doesn't need another Harvard or CalTech. It does need a full-bore Stanford.

It has always seemed to me that the primary goal of the school's head administrators was to distance Stanford from the football factories. If in doing that we could still have a successful team, great. If not, well so be it.

You imply resignation, as if the two things must inevitably be mutually exclusive. To me, what makes Stanford "Stanford" is the success it had fairly recently in football. It exploded the defeatist trope that you can't eat your academic cake and have Rose Bowls, too. You did. So, you can. So what if the NY6 games are typically associated with those "factories"? They're achievable. Yes, even for Stanford precisely because it's "Stanford". I didn't notice any erosion in the University's academic reputation or compromise in the mission due to having an elite football program. Hope to hell this isn't lost on MTL & Co. Hey, if it is, "so be it". BUT it did NOT have to be.

[Hurlburt88]

Stanford:   Excellence in everything.   

Why not??

[Hurlburt88]

Stanford:   Excellence in everything.   

Why not??

[Phogge]

Stanford: First in War (Hoover Institute), first in peace (Linus Pauling et al) and last in the PAC 12 North.

[Phogge]

Stanford: First in War (Hoover Institute), first in peace (Linus Pauling et al) and last in the PAC 12 North.

[Papa John]

Chuck Taylor was the first AD I remember. Then Joe Ruetz, Andy Geiger, Ted Leland and Bob Bowlsby. Does anybody here rank Muir above any of these guys?

I don't rank Muir above any of the AD's mentioned, although I didn't start paying attention to Stanford athletics until 1980. I would note that during Geiger's tenure (1979-1990), Stanford had losing overall records in both football and men's basketball in 1981-82, 1984-85 and 1985-86.

If we go by conference records--maybe a better measure since nonconference schedules vary so much from year-to-year--there are losing records for both football and men's basketball in 1980-81, 1982-83, 1983-84, 1984-85, 1985-86.

The cumulative record for Stanford football from 1979-1989 was 49-70 (33-50). Geiger hired Paul Wiggin in 1980--not a good idea--hired Jack Elway in 1984--seemed like a good idea at the time--hired Dennis Green in 1989--definitely a good idea.

The cumulative record for Stanford men's basketball during Geiger's tenure was 161-160 (81-117). Geiger allowed Dick DiBiaso to remain head coach for three additional years after four losing seasons--bad idea--hired Tom Davis in 1982--seemed like a good idea at the time--hired Mike Montgomery in 1986--great idea!

My point is that ADs make bad coaching hires and good coaching hires. In the case of Geiger, he left Stanford football and men's basketball much better off when he left than when he arrived, but only after some poor/mediocre early decisions. I'm willing to hold off a few more years on judging Bernard Muir for his football and men's basketball coaching decisions.

My main concerns with Muir are with the other issues/scandals that have been discussed extensively on this board.

[Papa John]

Chuck Taylor was the first AD I remember. Then Joe Ruetz, Andy Geiger, Ted Leland and Bob Bowlsby. Does anybody here rank Muir above any of these guys?

I don't rank Muir above any of the AD's mentioned, although I didn't start paying attention to Stanford athletics until 1980. I would note that during Geiger's tenure (1979-1990), Stanford had losing overall records in both football and men's basketball in 1981-82, 1984-85 and 1985-86.

If we go by conference records--maybe a better measure since nonconference schedules vary so much from year-to-year--there are losing records for both football and men's basketball in 1980-81, 1982-83, 1983-84, 1984-85, 1985-86.

The cumulative record for Stanford football from 1979-1989 was 49-70 (33-50). Geiger hired Paul Wiggin in 1980--not a good idea--hired Jack Elway in 1984--seemed like a good idea at the time--hired Dennis Green in 1989--definitely a good idea.

The cumulative record for Stanford men's basketball during Geiger's tenure was 161-160 (81-117). Geiger allowed Dick DiBiaso to remain head coach for three additional years after four losing seasons--bad idea--hired Tom Davis in 1982--seemed like a good idea at the time--hired Mike Montgomery in 1986--great idea!

My point is that ADs make bad coaching hires and good coaching hires. In the case of Geiger, he left Stanford football and men's basketball much better off when he left than when he arrived, but only after some poor/mediocre early decisions. I'm willing to hold off a few more years on judging Bernard Muir for his football and men's basketball coaching decisions.

My main concerns with Muir are with the other issues/scandals that have been discussed extensively on this board.

[Spiny_Norman]

Andy Geiger gets bonus points for reversing the policy that prohibited beer sales in Stanford Stadium

[Spiny_Norman]

Andy Geiger gets bonus points for reversing the policy that prohibited beer sales in Stanford Stadium

[teejers1]

Andy Geiger gets bonus points for reversing the policy that prohibited beer sales in Stanford Stadium

Maybe that's the path for Muir to save his job!  

Lift the beer ban in the stadium, which will help offset brobdingnagian $$ drain from lack of ticket sales.  
And it will also help dull the pain for the hundreds of Stanford fans inside the stadium watching what is happening on the field.

Win-Win!!

[teejers1]

Andy Geiger gets bonus points for reversing the policy that prohibited beer sales in Stanford Stadium

Maybe that's the path for Muir to save his job!  

Lift the beer ban in the stadium, which will help offset brobdingnagian $$ drain from lack of ticket sales.  
And it will also help dull the pain for the hundreds of Stanford fans inside the stadium watching what is happening on the field.

Win-Win!!

[Maple Leaf]

Andy Geiger gets bonus points for reversing the policy that prohibited beer sales in Stanford Stadium

Maybe that's the path for Muir to save his job!  

Lift the beer ban in the stadium, which will help offset of immense proportions $$ drain from lack of ticket sales.  
And it will also help dull the pain for the hundreds of Stanford fans inside the stadium watching what is happening on the field.


Win-Win!!

Be careful with that approach, you very well end up with a group of mean drunks..................some of whom are off their meds!

[Maple Leaf]

Andy Geiger gets bonus points for reversing the policy that prohibited beer sales in Stanford Stadium

Maybe that's the path for Muir to save his job!  

Lift the beer ban in the stadium, which will help offset of immense proportions $$ drain from lack of ticket sales.  
And it will also help dull the pain for the hundreds of Stanford fans inside the stadium watching what is happening on the field.


Win-Win!!

Be careful with that approach, you very well end up with a group of mean drunks..................some of whom are off their meds!

[Phogge]

I can't believe Stanford guys can't think of engineering tricks to smuggle alcohol into the stadium.

[Phogge]

I can't believe Stanford guys can't think of engineering tricks to smuggle alcohol into the stadium.

[SamuelMcF]

I can't believe Stanford guys can't think of engineering tricks to smuggle alcohol into the stadium.

Plastic foldable flask in each pocket. They don't check. Order a Pepsi at the beginning of each half and pour. Done.

[SamuelMcF]

I can't believe Stanford guys can't think of engineering tricks to smuggle alcohol into the stadium.

Plastic foldable flask in each pocket. They don't check. Order a Pepsi at the beginning of each half and pour. Done.