[Mick]

So Russell Wilson gets traded for two first round picks, two second round picks and three players.  If that's what Russell Wilson is worth, what is Jimmy Garoppolo worth?

Maybe a couple 3d to 4th round picks.  Wilson is elite.

Wilson also has two years remaining on his contract at well below market, which is obviously valuable.

All things being equal I think Garoppolo would garner at least a 2nd-3rd round pick but his shoulder surgery complicates his market.

Wilson has stated that we wants "Mahomes money" prior to his next team.  So that might dim money as a specific issue.

As for Russell Elite vs. Jimmy Pedestrian, here they are by category over the 2021 season:

Wins, Garoppolo (9-6 vs. 6-8)
Comp % Garoppolo (68.3% vs. 64.8%)
Yards  Garoppolo (3,810 vs. 3,113)
Pass TD's    Wilson (25 vs. 20)
INTs    Wilson (6 vs. 12)
Y/A     Garoppolo (8.6 vs. 7.8)
NY/A    Garoppolo (7.68 vs. 6.58)
Sacks   Garoppolo (29 vs. 33)
Rush TD's  Garoppolo (3 vs. 2)
Rush yds   Wilson (183 vs. 51)
Age    Garoppolo (30 vs. 33)

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2022/3/8/2296...e-nfl-news

[Mick]

So Russell Wilson gets traded for two first round picks, two second round picks and three players.  If that's what Russell Wilson is worth, what is Jimmy Garoppolo worth?

Maybe a couple 3d to 4th round picks.  Wilson is elite.

Wilson also has two years remaining on his contract at well below market, which is obviously valuable.

All things being equal I think Garoppolo would garner at least a 2nd-3rd round pick but his shoulder surgery complicates his market.

Wilson has stated that we wants "Mahomes money" prior to his next team.  So that might dim money as a specific issue.

As for Russell Elite vs. Jimmy Pedestrian, here they are by category over the 2021 season:

Wins, Garoppolo (9-6 vs. 6-8)
Comp % Garoppolo (68.3% vs. 64.8%)
Yards  Garoppolo (3,810 vs. 3,113)
Pass TD's    Wilson (25 vs. 20)
INTs    Wilson (6 vs. 12)
Y/A     Garoppolo (8.6 vs. 7.8)
NY/A    Garoppolo (7.68 vs. 6.58)
Sacks   Garoppolo (29 vs. 33)
Rush TD's  Garoppolo (3 vs. 2)
Rush yds   Wilson (183 vs. 51)
Age    Garoppolo (30 vs. 33)

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2022/3/8/2296...e-nfl-news

[teejers1]

So Russell Wilson gets traded for two first round picks, two second round picks and three players.  If that's what Russell Wilson is worth, what is Jimmy Garoppolo worth?

Maybe a couple 3d to 4th round picks.  Wilson is elite.

Wilson also has two years remaining on his contract at well below market, which is obviously valuable.

All things being equal I think Garoppolo would garner at least a 2nd-3rd round pick but his shoulder surgery complicates his market.

Jimmy looking after Jimmy by getting that surgery, and that's fine - no one else is.
In ideal world, Jimmy gets released and then chooses the team he wishes to play for - the surgery and uncertainty resulting from same, increased his odds on that front.  I STILL don't get why a team would give the 'Niners much of anything for Jimmy and his extant contract.  I know someone here posted that he has a good price tag, but I still find that hard to believe . . .

[teejers1]

So Russell Wilson gets traded for two first round picks, two second round picks and three players.  If that's what Russell Wilson is worth, what is Jimmy Garoppolo worth?

Maybe a couple 3d to 4th round picks.  Wilson is elite.

Wilson also has two years remaining on his contract at well below market, which is obviously valuable.

All things being equal I think Garoppolo would garner at least a 2nd-3rd round pick but his shoulder surgery complicates his market.

Jimmy looking after Jimmy by getting that surgery, and that's fine - no one else is.
In ideal world, Jimmy gets released and then chooses the team he wishes to play for - the surgery and uncertainty resulting from same, increased his odds on that front.  I STILL don't get why a team would give the 'Niners much of anything for Jimmy and his extant contract.  I know someone here posted that he has a good price tag, but I still find that hard to believe . . .

[DC 86]

So Russell Wilson gets traded for two first round picks, two second round picks and three players.  If that's what Russell Wilson is worth, what is Jimmy Garoppolo worth?

Maybe a couple 3d to 4th round picks.  Wilson is elite.

Wilson also has two years remaining on his contract at well below market, which is obviously valuable.

All things being equal I think Garoppolo would garner at least a 2nd-3rd round pick but his shoulder surgery complicates his market.

Wilson has stated that we wants "Mahomes money" prior to his next team.  So that might dim money as a specific issue.

He waived his no-trade clause prior to any extension/re-negotiation but of course Wilson has a lot of leverage (following the Ramsey model in LA) given how many assets Denver gave up. However, although certainly there will be a top-of-market contract extension/reworking coming, the fact that Wilson is under contract for the next two years for $51 mm total is pure and valuable leverage for the Broncos.

---

Jimmy looking after Jimmy by getting that surgery, and that's fine - no one else is.
In ideal world, Jimmy gets released and then chooses the team he wishes to play for - the surgery and uncertainty resulting from same, increased his odds on that front.  I STILL don't get why a team would give the 'Niners much of anything for Jimmy and his extant contract.  I know someone here posted that he has a good price tag, but I still find that hard to believe . . .

There's a real market for a healthy Garoppolo. However, I also think SF will work to accommodate him to some extent, not necessarily maximizing the return but respecting JG's preferences as far as a landing spot. Of course if he can't pass a physical it's an entirely different scenario altogether, and an outright release could happen.

[DC 86]

So Russell Wilson gets traded for two first round picks, two second round picks and three players.  If that's what Russell Wilson is worth, what is Jimmy Garoppolo worth?

Maybe a couple 3d to 4th round picks.  Wilson is elite.

Wilson also has two years remaining on his contract at well below market, which is obviously valuable.

All things being equal I think Garoppolo would garner at least a 2nd-3rd round pick but his shoulder surgery complicates his market.

Wilson has stated that we wants "Mahomes money" prior to his next team.  So that might dim money as a specific issue.

He waived his no-trade clause prior to any extension/re-negotiation but of course Wilson has a lot of leverage (following the Ramsey model in LA) given how many assets Denver gave up. However, although certainly there will be a top-of-market contract extension/reworking coming, the fact that Wilson is under contract for the next two years for $51 mm total is pure and valuable leverage for the Broncos.

---

Jimmy looking after Jimmy by getting that surgery, and that's fine - no one else is.
In ideal world, Jimmy gets released and then chooses the team he wishes to play for - the surgery and uncertainty resulting from same, increased his odds on that front.  I STILL don't get why a team would give the 'Niners much of anything for Jimmy and his extant contract.  I know someone here posted that he has a good price tag, but I still find that hard to believe . . .

There's a real market for a healthy Garoppolo. However, I also think SF will work to accommodate him to some extent, not necessarily maximizing the return but respecting JG's preferences as far as a landing spot. Of course if he can't pass a physical it's an entirely different scenario altogether, and an outright release could happen.

[Mick]

In my eyes, Wilson and Garoppolo are both far from ideal.

At least when Garoppolo has been healthy and played a full season over the past five years, he's been to two NFC championships and a superbowl in his only two healthy seasons as a starter.  Two years he was injured, one year he came in mid-season.  But the other two, great results.  And of course, his career win% with the Niners is 70.2% while Wilson's is 66.2%.

You know what you get with Russell.  He stays healthy.  He's been a starter since 2017, and since then, Russell Wilson's Seahawks missed the playoffs twice, lost the wild card game twice and won the wild card game once and lost the divisional playoff game.  Incidentally, that was the result in 2015 and 2016.  Wilson hasn't been to a conference championship since 2014.  But he's worth two first rounders, two second rounders, a backup QB who led the league in INTs two years ago, a starting tight end, and a starting DL.  Yikes.

[Mick]

In my eyes, Wilson and Garoppolo are both far from ideal.

At least when Garoppolo has been healthy and played a full season over the past five years, he's been to two NFC championships and a superbowl in his only two healthy seasons as a starter.  Two years he was injured, one year he came in mid-season.  But the other two, great results.  And of course, his career win% with the Niners is 70.2% while Wilson's is 66.2%.

You know what you get with Russell.  He stays healthy.  He's been a starter since 2017, and since then, Russell Wilson's Seahawks missed the playoffs twice, lost the wild card game twice and won the wild card game once and lost the divisional playoff game.  Incidentally, that was the result in 2015 and 2016.  Wilson hasn't been to a conference championship since 2014.  But he's worth two first rounders, two second rounders, a backup QB who led the league in INTs two years ago, a starting tight end, and a starting DL.  Yikes.

[Goose]

But he's worth two first rounders, two second rounders, a backup QB who led the league in INTs two years ago, a starting tight end, and a starting DL.  Yikes.

No, he isn't worth that, but that is what Denver paid. Somebody must have spread a lot of FOMO to get them to go that high. I think they must have been bidding against two other teams, named rumor and reliable sources.

[Goose]

But he's worth two first rounders, two second rounders, a backup QB who led the league in INTs two years ago, a starting tight end, and a starting DL.  Yikes.

No, he isn't worth that, but that is what Denver paid. Somebody must have spread a lot of FOMO to get them to go that high. I think they must have been bidding against two other teams, named rumor and reliable sources.

[DC 86]

But he's worth two first rounders, two second rounders, a backup QB who led the league in INTs two years ago, a starting tight end, and a starting DL.  Yikes.

No, he isn't worth that, but that is what Denver paid. Somebody must have spread a lot of FOMO to get them to go that high. I think they must have been bidding against two other teams, named rumor and reliable sources.

Around the league the Denver side of the deal is getting praised, time will tell but I think it's a smart move they had to make.

Note that RW has a full no-trade clause and gave Schneider a very short list of teams that he would agree to go to; if all teams were in play the price would have been even higher.

If I was Vic Fangio I would be irate. He puts together one of the best defenses in the league, has to make do with Drew Lock and Teddy Bridgewater and gets fired. He would have liked a chance with Russell Wilson.

---

You know what you get with Russell.  He stays healthy.

He has been remarkably healthy, the finger injury last year was a fluke, but it definitely had a severe adverse impact on his performance.

[DC 86]

But he's worth two first rounders, two second rounders, a backup QB who led the league in INTs two years ago, a starting tight end, and a starting DL.  Yikes.

No, he isn't worth that, but that is what Denver paid. Somebody must have spread a lot of FOMO to get them to go that high. I think they must have been bidding against two other teams, named rumor and reliable sources.

Around the league the Denver side of the deal is getting praised, time will tell but I think it's a smart move they had to make.

Note that RW has a full no-trade clause and gave Schneider a very short list of teams that he would agree to go to; if all teams were in play the price would have been even higher.

If I was Vic Fangio I would be irate. He puts together one of the best defenses in the league, has to make do with Drew Lock and Teddy Bridgewater and gets fired. He would have liked a chance with Russell Wilson.

---

You know what you get with Russell.  He stays healthy.

He has been remarkably healthy, the finger injury last year was a fluke, but it definitely had a severe adverse impact on his performance.

[Giants]

So Russell Wilson gets traded for two first round picks, two second round picks and three players.  If that's what Russell Wilson is worth, what is Jimmy Garoppolo worth?

Maybe a couple 3d to 4th round picks.  Wilson is elite.

Wilson also has two years remaining on his contract at well below market, which is obviously valuable.

All things being equal I think Garoppolo would garner at least a 2nd-3rd round pick but his shoulder surgery complicates his market.

Wilson has stated that we wants "Mahomes money" prior to his next team.  So that might dim money as a specific issue.

He waived his no-trade clause prior to any extension/re-negotiation but of course Wilson has a lot of leverage (following the Ramsey model in LA) given how many assets Denver gave up. However, although certainly there will be a top-of-market contract extension/reworking coming, the fact that Wilson is under contract for the next two years for $51 mm total is pure and valuable leverage for the Broncos.

---

Jimmy looking after Jimmy by getting that surgery, and that's fine - no one else is.
In ideal world, Jimmy gets released and then chooses the team he wishes to play for - the surgery and uncertainty resulting from same, increased his odds on that front.  I STILL don't get why a team would give the 'Niners much of anything for Jimmy and his extant contract.  I know someone here posted that he has a good price tag, but I still find that hard to believe . . .

There's a real market for a healthy Garoppolo. However, I also think SF will work to accommodate him to some extent, not necessarily maximizing the return but respecting JG's preferences as far as a landing spot. Of course if he can't pass a physical it's an entirely different scenario altogether, and an outright release could happen.

If JG is released, SF loses $7.5 million in cap space (the injury guarantee owing to JG due to his shoulder surgery).  That is motivation to get a deal done before next week.  Assuming the receiving team waives their right to void the trade based on the results of the physical, I would guess a 2023 4th round selection with the possibility of an increase to a third round choice based on playing time.  Pittsburgh is still in the hunt. I would rule out Indy because their GM is looking for a long term solution (after dealing Wentz to Washington).

[Giants]

So Russell Wilson gets traded for two first round picks, two second round picks and three players.  If that's what Russell Wilson is worth, what is Jimmy Garoppolo worth?

Maybe a couple 3d to 4th round picks.  Wilson is elite.

Wilson also has two years remaining on his contract at well below market, which is obviously valuable.

All things being equal I think Garoppolo would garner at least a 2nd-3rd round pick but his shoulder surgery complicates his market.

Wilson has stated that we wants "Mahomes money" prior to his next team.  So that might dim money as a specific issue.

He waived his no-trade clause prior to any extension/re-negotiation but of course Wilson has a lot of leverage (following the Ramsey model in LA) given how many assets Denver gave up. However, although certainly there will be a top-of-market contract extension/reworking coming, the fact that Wilson is under contract for the next two years for $51 mm total is pure and valuable leverage for the Broncos.

---

Jimmy looking after Jimmy by getting that surgery, and that's fine - no one else is.
In ideal world, Jimmy gets released and then chooses the team he wishes to play for - the surgery and uncertainty resulting from same, increased his odds on that front.  I STILL don't get why a team would give the 'Niners much of anything for Jimmy and his extant contract.  I know someone here posted that he has a good price tag, but I still find that hard to believe . . .

There's a real market for a healthy Garoppolo. However, I also think SF will work to accommodate him to some extent, not necessarily maximizing the return but respecting JG's preferences as far as a landing spot. Of course if he can't pass a physical it's an entirely different scenario altogether, and an outright release could happen.

If JG is released, SF loses $7.5 million in cap space (the injury guarantee owing to JG due to his shoulder surgery).  That is motivation to get a deal done before next week.  Assuming the receiving team waives their right to void the trade based on the results of the physical, I would guess a 2023 4th round selection with the possibility of an increase to a third round choice based on playing time.  Pittsburgh is still in the hunt. I would rule out Indy because their GM is looking for a long term solution (after dealing Wentz to Washington).

[Mick]

If JG is released, SF loses $7.5 million in cap space (the injury guarantee owing to JG due to his shoulder surgery).  That is motivation to get a deal done before next week.  Assuming the receiving team waives their right to void the trade based on the results of the physical, I would guess a 2023 4th round selection with the possibility of an increase to a third round choice based on playing time.  Pittsburgh is still in the hunt. I would rule out Indy because their GM is looking for a long term solution (after dealing Wentz to Washington).

Pittsburgh's in the hunt. Seattle. Panthers. Colts. Lions. Texans. New Orleans, maybe. Maybe Miami, Giants, Browns.

[Mick]

If JG is released, SF loses $7.5 million in cap space (the injury guarantee owing to JG due to his shoulder surgery).  That is motivation to get a deal done before next week.  Assuming the receiving team waives their right to void the trade based on the results of the physical, I would guess a 2023 4th round selection with the possibility of an increase to a third round choice based on playing time.  Pittsburgh is still in the hunt. I would rule out Indy because their GM is looking for a long term solution (after dealing Wentz to Washington).

Pittsburgh's in the hunt. Seattle. Panthers. Colts. Lions. Texans. New Orleans, maybe. Maybe Miami, Giants, Browns.

[lex24]

In my eyes, Wilson and Garoppolo are both far from ideal.

At least when Garoppolo has been healthy and played a full season over the past five years, he's been to two NFC championships and a superbowl in his only two healthy seasons as a starter.  Two years he was injured, one year he came in mid-season.  But the other two, great results.  And of course, his career win% with the Niners is 70.2% while Wilson's is 66.2%.

You know what you get with Russell.  He stays healthy.  He's been a starter since 2017, and since then, Russell Wilson's Seahawks missed the playoffs twice, lost the wild card game twice and won the wild card game once and lost the divisional playoff game.  Incidentally, that was the result in 2015 and 2016.  Wilson hasn't been to a conference championship since 2014.  But he's worth two first rounders, two second rounders, a backup QB who led the league in INTs two years ago, a starting tight end, and a starting DL.  Yikes.

Wilson is a top 10 QB.  He’s been a starter since 2012. Top 5 if he gets back to form.  He is a tremendous downfield passer, has great feet, is a good runner.  One of the most accurate passers in football.  He won an SB and would have won a second had Carroll simply had him hand it to Lynch.

Team has dropped off a bit. Lost running game and the defense ain’t what it used to be. Glad he’s out of the Division. He owned the Niners.

---

Baseball.  Do the owners even want to play in April.  My guess is small market owners are making this damn near impossible.

[lex24]

In my eyes, Wilson and Garoppolo are both far from ideal.

At least when Garoppolo has been healthy and played a full season over the past five years, he's been to two NFC championships and a superbowl in his only two healthy seasons as a starter.  Two years he was injured, one year he came in mid-season.  But the other two, great results.  And of course, his career win% with the Niners is 70.2% while Wilson's is 66.2%.

You know what you get with Russell.  He stays healthy.  He's been a starter since 2017, and since then, Russell Wilson's Seahawks missed the playoffs twice, lost the wild card game twice and won the wild card game once and lost the divisional playoff game.  Incidentally, that was the result in 2015 and 2016.  Wilson hasn't been to a conference championship since 2014.  But he's worth two first rounders, two second rounders, a backup QB who led the league in INTs two years ago, a starting tight end, and a starting DL.  Yikes.

Wilson is a top 10 QB.  He’s been a starter since 2012. Top 5 if he gets back to form.  He is a tremendous downfield passer, has great feet, is a good runner.  One of the most accurate passers in football.  He won an SB and would have won a second had Carroll simply had him hand it to Lynch.

Team has dropped off a bit. Lost running game and the defense ain’t what it used to be. Glad he’s out of the Division. He owned the Niners.

---

Baseball.  Do the owners even want to play in April.  My guess is small market owners are making this damn near impossible.

[DC 86]

Baseball.  Do the owners even want to play in April.  My guess is small market owners are making this damn near impossible.

They don't. April is the lowest attended month and local television rebates aren't triggered unless the lockout extends into May so it's an easy tradeoff for owners to extend the lockout well into April in order to exert as much pressure as they can into May.

Conversely, if the players stay united then it starts to become problematic for owners, who probably have projected something like a 140-150 game season all along but start to get hit economically beyond that.

Second week of the season officially canceled today.

[DC 86]

Baseball.  Do the owners even want to play in April.  My guess is small market owners are making this damn near impossible.

They don't. April is the lowest attended month and local television rebates aren't triggered unless the lockout extends into May so it's an easy tradeoff for owners to extend the lockout well into April in order to exert as much pressure as they can into May.

Conversely, if the players stay united then it starts to become problematic for owners, who probably have projected something like a 140-150 game season all along but start to get hit economically beyond that.

Second week of the season officially canceled today.

[lex24]

Baseball.  Do the owners even want to play in April.  My guess is small market owners are making this damn near impossible.

They don't. April is the lowest attended month and local television rebates aren't triggered unless the lockout extends into May so it's an easy tradeoff for owners to extend the lockout well into April in order to exert as much pressure as they can into May.

Conversely, if the players stay united then it starts to become problematic for owners, who probably have projected something like a 140-150 game season all along but start to get hit economically beyond that.

Second week of the season officially canceled today.

And those that support the game get f’ed. What a debacle.  My hope is they lose a sh-t load of money.  They deserve to.  

I’d like to see pressure from the networks.  Apple should have said - resolve this now.  Or we walk till next year.

[lex24]

Baseball.  Do the owners even want to play in April.  My guess is small market owners are making this damn near impossible.

They don't. April is the lowest attended month and local television rebates aren't triggered unless the lockout extends into May so it's an easy tradeoff for owners to extend the lockout well into April in order to exert as much pressure as they can into May.

Conversely, if the players stay united then it starts to become problematic for owners, who probably have projected something like a 140-150 game season all along but start to get hit economically beyond that.

Second week of the season officially canceled today.

And those that support the game get f’ed. What a debacle.  My hope is they lose a sh-t load of money.  They deserve to.  

I’d like to see pressure from the networks.  Apple should have said - resolve this now.  Or we walk till next year.

[Mick]

In my eyes, Wilson and Garoppolo are both far from ideal.

At least when Garoppolo has been healthy and played a full season over the past five years, he's been to two NFC championships and a superbowl in his only two healthy seasons as a starter.  Two years he was injured, one year he came in mid-season.  But the other two, great results.  And of course, his career win% with the Niners is 70.2% while Wilson's is 66.2%.

You know what you get with Russell.  He stays healthy.  He's been a starter since 2017, and since then, Russell Wilson's Seahawks missed the playoffs twice, lost the wild card game twice and won the wild card game once and lost the divisional playoff game.  Incidentally, that was the result in 2015 and 2016.  Wilson hasn't been to a conference championship since 2014.  But he's worth two first rounders, two second rounders, a backup QB who led the league in INTs two years ago, a starting tight end, and a starting DL.  Yikes.

Wilson is a top 10 QB.  He’s been a starter since 2012.  Top 5 if he gets back to form.  He is a tremendous downfield passer, has great feet, is a good runner.  One of the most accurate passers in football.  He won an SB and would have won a second had Carroll simply had him hand it to Lynch.

Team has dropped off a bit.  Lost running game and the defense ain’t what it used to be.  Glad he’s out of the Division.  He owned the Niners.

You're right on all counts.  Wilson is a top 10 QB, exactly #10 by ESPN's QBR rating. He was #20 in completion percentage (Garoppolo was #5). He was #18 in rushing yards by a quarterback.

Wilson did win one Super Bowl eight years ago, and lost the Super Bowl one year later.  Since then, he hasn't advanced past the divisional game.

[Mick]

In my eyes, Wilson and Garoppolo are both far from ideal.

At least when Garoppolo has been healthy and played a full season over the past five years, he's been to two NFC championships and a superbowl in his only two healthy seasons as a starter.  Two years he was injured, one year he came in mid-season.  But the other two, great results.  And of course, his career win% with the Niners is 70.2% while Wilson's is 66.2%.

You know what you get with Russell.  He stays healthy.  He's been a starter since 2017, and since then, Russell Wilson's Seahawks missed the playoffs twice, lost the wild card game twice and won the wild card game once and lost the divisional playoff game.  Incidentally, that was the result in 2015 and 2016.  Wilson hasn't been to a conference championship since 2014.  But he's worth two first rounders, two second rounders, a backup QB who led the league in INTs two years ago, a starting tight end, and a starting DL.  Yikes.

Wilson is a top 10 QB.  He’s been a starter since 2012.  Top 5 if he gets back to form.  He is a tremendous downfield passer, has great feet, is a good runner.  One of the most accurate passers in football.  He won an SB and would have won a second had Carroll simply had him hand it to Lynch.

Team has dropped off a bit.  Lost running game and the defense ain’t what it used to be.  Glad he’s out of the Division.  He owned the Niners.

You're right on all counts.  Wilson is a top 10 QB, exactly #10 by ESPN's QBR rating. He was #20 in completion percentage (Garoppolo was #5). He was #18 in rushing yards by a quarterback.

Wilson did win one Super Bowl eight years ago, and lost the Super Bowl one year later.  Since then, he hasn't advanced past the divisional game.

[DC 86]

In my eyes, Wilson and Garoppolo are both far from ideal.

At least when Garoppolo has been healthy and played a full season over the past five years, he's been to two NFC championships and a superbowl in his only two healthy seasons as a starter.  Two years he was injured, one year he came in mid-season.  But the other two, great results.  And of course, his career win% with the Niners is 70.2% while Wilson's is 66.2%.

You know what you get with Russell.  He stays healthy.  He's been a starter since 2017, and since then, Russell Wilson's Seahawks missed the playoffs twice, lost the wild card game twice and won the wild card game once and lost the divisional playoff game.  Incidentally, that was the result in 2015 and 2016.  Wilson hasn't been to a conference championship since 2014.  But he's worth two first rounders, two second rounders, a backup QB who led the league in INTs two years ago, a starting tight end, and a starting DL.  Yikes.

Wilson is a top 10 QB.  He’s been a starter since 2012.  Top 5 if he gets back to form.  He is a tremendous downfield passer, has great feet, is a good runner.  One of the most accurate passers in football.  He won an SB and would have won a second had Carroll simply had him hand it to Lynch.

Team has dropped off a bit.  Lost running game and the defense ain’t what it used to be.  Glad he’s out of the Division.  He owned the Niners.

You're right on all counts.  Wilson is a top 10 QB, exactly #10 by ESPN's QBR rating. He was #20 in completion percentage (Garoppolo was #5). He was #18 in rushing yards by a quarterback.

Wilson did win one Super Bowl eight years ago, and lost the Super Bowl one year later.  Since then, he hasn't advanced past the divisional game.

I think QBR is a useful metric but far from definitive, particularly if you only go back one year - a year in which Wilson played with a compromised finger which clearly impacted his throws.

Setting that aside, Wilson was #10 last year. Right ahead of him at #9 was Carson Wentz. Right behind Wilson at #11 was Joe Burrow.

Also true that Wilson has only been to two Super Bowls, the most recent being seven years ago. Meanwhile the reigning back-to-back MVP of the league has been to a total of one Super Bowl in his career, eleven years ago.

[DC 86]

In my eyes, Wilson and Garoppolo are both far from ideal.

At least when Garoppolo has been healthy and played a full season over the past five years, he's been to two NFC championships and a superbowl in his only two healthy seasons as a starter.  Two years he was injured, one year he came in mid-season.  But the other two, great results.  And of course, his career win% with the Niners is 70.2% while Wilson's is 66.2%.

You know what you get with Russell.  He stays healthy.  He's been a starter since 2017, and since then, Russell Wilson's Seahawks missed the playoffs twice, lost the wild card game twice and won the wild card game once and lost the divisional playoff game.  Incidentally, that was the result in 2015 and 2016.  Wilson hasn't been to a conference championship since 2014.  But he's worth two first rounders, two second rounders, a backup QB who led the league in INTs two years ago, a starting tight end, and a starting DL.  Yikes.

Wilson is a top 10 QB.  He’s been a starter since 2012.  Top 5 if he gets back to form.  He is a tremendous downfield passer, has great feet, is a good runner.  One of the most accurate passers in football.  He won an SB and would have won a second had Carroll simply had him hand it to Lynch.

Team has dropped off a bit.  Lost running game and the defense ain’t what it used to be.  Glad he’s out of the Division.  He owned the Niners.

You're right on all counts.  Wilson is a top 10 QB, exactly #10 by ESPN's QBR rating. He was #20 in completion percentage (Garoppolo was #5). He was #18 in rushing yards by a quarterback.

Wilson did win one Super Bowl eight years ago, and lost the Super Bowl one year later.  Since then, he hasn't advanced past the divisional game.

I think QBR is a useful metric but far from definitive, particularly if you only go back one year - a year in which Wilson played with a compromised finger which clearly impacted his throws.

Setting that aside, Wilson was #10 last year. Right ahead of him at #9 was Carson Wentz. Right behind Wilson at #11 was Joe Burrow.

Also true that Wilson has only been to two Super Bowls, the most recent being seven years ago. Meanwhile the reigning back-to-back MVP of the league has been to a total of one Super Bowl in his career, eleven years ago.

[Mick]

In my eyes, Wilson and Garoppolo are both far from ideal.

At least when Garoppolo has been healthy and played a full season over the past five years, he's been to two NFC championships and a superbowl in his only two healthy seasons as a starter.  Two years he was injured, one year he came in mid-season.  But the other two, great results.  And of course, his career win% with the Niners is 70.2% while Wilson's is 66.2%.

You know what you get with Russell.  He stays healthy.  He's been a starter since 2017, and since then, Russell Wilson's Seahawks missed the playoffs twice, lost the wild card game twice and won the wild card game once and lost the divisional playoff game.  Incidentally, that was the result in 2015 and 2016.  Wilson hasn't been to a conference championship since 2014.  But he's worth two first rounders, two second rounders, a backup QB who led the league in INTs two years ago, a starting tight end, and a starting DL.  Yikes.

Wilson is a top 10 QB.  He’s been a starter since 2012.  Top 5 if he gets back to form.  He is a tremendous downfield passer, has great feet, is a good runner.  One of the most accurate passers in football.  He won an SB and would have won a second had Carroll simply had him hand it to Lynch.

Team has dropped off a bit.  Lost running game and the defense ain’t what it used to be.  Glad he’s out of the Division.  He owned the Niners.

You're right on all counts.  Wilson is a top 10 QB, exactly #10 by ESPN's QBR rating. He was #20 in completion percentage (Garoppolo was #5). He was #18 in rushing yards by a quarterback.

Wilson did win one Super Bowl eight years ago, and lost the Super Bowl one year later.  Since then, he hasn't advanced past the divisional game.

I think QBR is a useful metric but far from definitive, particularly if you only go back one year - a year in which Wilson played with a compromised finger which clearly impacted his throws.

Setting that aside, Wilson was #10 last year. Right ahead of him at #9 was Carson Wentz. Right behind Wilson at #11 was Joe Burrow.

Also true that Wilson has only been to two Super Bowls, the most recent being seven years ago. Meanwhile the reigning back-to-back MVP of the league has been to a total of one Super Bowl in his career, eleven years ago.

And he's $200 million wealthier...

I think Garoppolo ends up with the Colts.  Colts have 73rd and 82nd overall picks in the third round.  One of those this year, another pick next year assuming Garoppolo satisfies certain conditions.  And the Colts steal a decent QB.

[Mick]

In my eyes, Wilson and Garoppolo are both far from ideal.

At least when Garoppolo has been healthy and played a full season over the past five years, he's been to two NFC championships and a superbowl in his only two healthy seasons as a starter.  Two years he was injured, one year he came in mid-season.  But the other two, great results.  And of course, his career win% with the Niners is 70.2% while Wilson's is 66.2%.

You know what you get with Russell.  He stays healthy.  He's been a starter since 2017, and since then, Russell Wilson's Seahawks missed the playoffs twice, lost the wild card game twice and won the wild card game once and lost the divisional playoff game.  Incidentally, that was the result in 2015 and 2016.  Wilson hasn't been to a conference championship since 2014.  But he's worth two first rounders, two second rounders, a backup QB who led the league in INTs two years ago, a starting tight end, and a starting DL.  Yikes.

Wilson is a top 10 QB.  He’s been a starter since 2012.  Top 5 if he gets back to form.  He is a tremendous downfield passer, has great feet, is a good runner.  One of the most accurate passers in football.  He won an SB and would have won a second had Carroll simply had him hand it to Lynch.

Team has dropped off a bit.  Lost running game and the defense ain’t what it used to be.  Glad he’s out of the Division.  He owned the Niners.

You're right on all counts.  Wilson is a top 10 QB, exactly #10 by ESPN's QBR rating. He was #20 in completion percentage (Garoppolo was #5). He was #18 in rushing yards by a quarterback.

Wilson did win one Super Bowl eight years ago, and lost the Super Bowl one year later.  Since then, he hasn't advanced past the divisional game.

I think QBR is a useful metric but far from definitive, particularly if you only go back one year - a year in which Wilson played with a compromised finger which clearly impacted his throws.

Setting that aside, Wilson was #10 last year. Right ahead of him at #9 was Carson Wentz. Right behind Wilson at #11 was Joe Burrow.

Also true that Wilson has only been to two Super Bowls, the most recent being seven years ago. Meanwhile the reigning back-to-back MVP of the league has been to a total of one Super Bowl in his career, eleven years ago.

And he's $200 million wealthier...

I think Garoppolo ends up with the Colts.  Colts have 73rd and 82nd overall picks in the third round.  One of those this year, another pick next year assuming Garoppolo satisfies certain conditions.  And the Colts steal a decent QB.

[lex24]

In my eyes, Wilson and Garoppolo are both far from ideal.

At least when Garoppolo has been healthy and played a full season over the past five years, he's been to two NFC championships and a superbowl in his only two healthy seasons as a starter.  Two years he was injured, one year he came in mid-season.  But the other two, great results.  And of course, his career win% with the Niners is 70.2% while Wilson's is 66.2%.

You know what you get with Russell.  He stays healthy.  He's been a starter since 2017, and since then, Russell Wilson's Seahawks missed the playoffs twice, lost the wild card game twice and won the wild card game once and lost the divisional playoff game.  Incidentally, that was the result in 2015 and 2016.  Wilson hasn't been to a conference championship since 2014.  But he's worth two first rounders, two second rounders, a backup QB who led the league in INTs two years ago, a starting tight end, and a starting DL.  Yikes.

Wilson is a top 10 QB.  He’s been a starter since 2012.  Top 5 if he gets back to form.  He is a tremendous downfield passer, has great feet, is a good runner.  One of the most accurate passers in football.  He won an SB and would have won a second had Carroll simply had him hand it to Lynch.

Team has dropped off a bit.  Lost running game and the defense ain’t what it used to be.  Glad he’s out of the Division.  He owned the Niners.

You're right on all counts.  Wilson is a top 10 QB, exactly #10 by ESPN's QBR rating. He was #20 in completion percentage (Garoppolo was #5). He was #18 in rushing yards by a quarterback.

Wilson did win one Super Bowl eight years ago, and lost the Super Bowl one year later.  Since then, he hasn't advanced past the divisional game.

I think QBR is a useful metric but far from definitive, particularly if you only go back one year - a year in which Wilson played with a compromised finger which clearly impacted his throws.

Setting that aside, Wilson was #10 last year. Right ahead of him at #9 was Carson Wentz. Right behind Wilson at #11 was Joe Burrow.

Also true that Wilson has only been to two Super Bowls, the most recent being seven years ago. Meanwhile the reigning back-to-back MVP of the league has been to a total of one Super Bowl in his career, eleven years ago.

And he's $200 million wealthier...

I think Garoppolo ends up with the Colts.  Colts have 73rd and 82nd overall picks in the third round.  One of those this year, another pick next year assuming Garoppolo satisfies certain conditions.  And the Colts steal a decent QB.

I’m not as statistic oriented as you, Mick. Wilson is and has been a top QB for years.  

As for JG, the Wentz trade makes things interesting.  What the Colts received is probably fairly close to JG’s market value.  OTOH, the list is shrinking - Rodgers, Brady, Wilson, Wentz off the board.

My understanding is that the Grand Jury is convening regarding possible criminal charges against Watson.  If they bring an indictment, he’s off the board.  If not - there are teams that may take the risk.  He’s a major talent.  

If Watson isn’t available, that increases JG’s trade value.  Niners didn’t want to wait (I don’t think). But surgery may have forced that.

[lex24]

In my eyes, Wilson and Garoppolo are both far from ideal.

At least when Garoppolo has been healthy and played a full season over the past five years, he's been to two NFC championships and a superbowl in his only two healthy seasons as a starter.  Two years he was injured, one year he came in mid-season.  But the other two, great results.  And of course, his career win% with the Niners is 70.2% while Wilson's is 66.2%.

You know what you get with Russell.  He stays healthy.  He's been a starter since 2017, and since then, Russell Wilson's Seahawks missed the playoffs twice, lost the wild card game twice and won the wild card game once and lost the divisional playoff game.  Incidentally, that was the result in 2015 and 2016.  Wilson hasn't been to a conference championship since 2014.  But he's worth two first rounders, two second rounders, a backup QB who led the league in INTs two years ago, a starting tight end, and a starting DL.  Yikes.

Wilson is a top 10 QB.  He’s been a starter since 2012.  Top 5 if he gets back to form.  He is a tremendous downfield passer, has great feet, is a good runner.  One of the most accurate passers in football.  He won an SB and would have won a second had Carroll simply had him hand it to Lynch.

Team has dropped off a bit.  Lost running game and the defense ain’t what it used to be.  Glad he’s out of the Division.  He owned the Niners.

You're right on all counts.  Wilson is a top 10 QB, exactly #10 by ESPN's QBR rating. He was #20 in completion percentage (Garoppolo was #5). He was #18 in rushing yards by a quarterback.

Wilson did win one Super Bowl eight years ago, and lost the Super Bowl one year later.  Since then, he hasn't advanced past the divisional game.

I think QBR is a useful metric but far from definitive, particularly if you only go back one year - a year in which Wilson played with a compromised finger which clearly impacted his throws.

Setting that aside, Wilson was #10 last year. Right ahead of him at #9 was Carson Wentz. Right behind Wilson at #11 was Joe Burrow.

Also true that Wilson has only been to two Super Bowls, the most recent being seven years ago. Meanwhile the reigning back-to-back MVP of the league has been to a total of one Super Bowl in his career, eleven years ago.

And he's $200 million wealthier...

I think Garoppolo ends up with the Colts.  Colts have 73rd and 82nd overall picks in the third round.  One of those this year, another pick next year assuming Garoppolo satisfies certain conditions.  And the Colts steal a decent QB.

I’m not as statistic oriented as you, Mick. Wilson is and has been a top QB for years.  

As for JG, the Wentz trade makes things interesting.  What the Colts received is probably fairly close to JG’s market value.  OTOH, the list is shrinking - Rodgers, Brady, Wilson, Wentz off the board.

My understanding is that the Grand Jury is convening regarding possible criminal charges against Watson.  If they bring an indictment, he’s off the board.  If not - there are teams that may take the risk.  He’s a major talent.  

If Watson isn’t available, that increases JG’s trade value.  Niners didn’t want to wait (I don’t think). But surgery may have forced that.

[BobK]

Wilson came an awesome speech at the WBB sr day. Uplifting

[BobK]

Wilson came an awesome speech at the WBB sr day. Uplifting

[Phogge]

I hope they don’t trade Jimmy for Lou Cordileone.

[Phogge]

I hope they don’t trade Jimmy for Lou Cordileone.

[teejers1]

Wilson is a top 10 QB.  He’s been a starter since 2012.  Top 5 if he gets back to form.  He is a tremendous downfield passer, has great feet, is a good runner.  One of the most accurate passers in football.  He won an SB and would have won a second had Carroll simply had him hand it to Lynch.

Team has dropped off a bit.  Lost running game and the defense ain’t what it used to be.  Glad he’s out of the Division.  He owned the Niners.

You're right on all counts.  Wilson is a top 10 QB, exactly #10 by ESPN's QBR rating. He was #20 in completion percentage (Garoppolo was #5). He was #18 in rushing yards by a quarterback.

Wilson did win one Super Bowl eight years ago, and lost the Super Bowl one year later.  Since then, he hasn't advanced past the divisional game.

I think QBR is a useful metric but far from definitive, particularly if you only go back one year - a year in which Wilson played with a compromised finger which clearly impacted his throws.

Setting that aside, Wilson was #10 last year. Right ahead of him at #9 was Carson Wentz. Right behind Wilson at #11 was Joe Burrow.

Also true that Wilson has only been to two Super Bowls, the most recent being seven years ago. Meanwhile the reigning back-to-back MVP of the league has been to a total of one Super Bowl in his career, eleven years ago.

And he's $200 million wealthier...

I think Garoppolo ends up with the Colts.  Colts have 73rd and 82nd overall picks in the third round.  One of those this year, another pick next year assuming Garoppolo satisfies certain conditions.  And the Colts steal a decent QB.

I’m not as statistic oriented as you, Mick. Wilson is and has been a top QB for years.  

As for JG, the Wentz trade makes things interesting.  What the Colts received is probably fairly close to JG’s market value.  OTOH, the list is shrinking - Rodgers, Brady, Wilson, Wentz off the board.

My understanding is that the Grand Jury is convening regarding possible criminal charges against Watson.  If they bring an indictment, he’s off the board.  If not - there are teams that may take the risk.  He’s a major talent.  

If Watson isn’t available, that increases JG’s trade value.  Niners didn’t want to wait (I don’t think). But surgery may have forced that.

1.  Agree that Wilson is an elite QB and better than Jimmy G;

2.  Agree that Petey screwed the pooch by NOT giving the rock to beast mode in the Super Bowl; however, it was Wilson who threw that pick at the goal line (even acknowledging a great play by the defender).  If that had been Jimmy G, I think the criticism for an ill-advised pass would have been much greater;

3.  A fully healthy Jimmy G is pretty dang good - perhaps good enough to lead the Colts to a Super Bowl.  But I'd still take a healthy Russ over Jimmy, regardless of what the stats may (or may not) say.

No way Jimmy ends up in Houston . . . Mills is better!

P.S.  Speaking of the Texans, can someone explain to me why Houston paid Watson last season to not show up and play?  If I'm Houston, I'd say "you're playing until the League says you're not by suspending you or putting you on the Commissioner's List" - at which point, Houston is not on the hook for his salary (I don't think).  Suspect there was some back-channel communications between Goodell's office and Texans' ownership.  Also, I've wondered why anyone has any sympathy for Watson, even pre-all the civil suits.  The guy demanded a new contract before his rookie deal was up; got it (which I support, btw), but then demanded to be traded or he would sit it out.  Eff that!

[teejers1]

Wilson is a top 10 QB.  He’s been a starter since 2012.  Top 5 if he gets back to form.  He is a tremendous downfield passer, has great feet, is a good runner.  One of the most accurate passers in football.  He won an SB and would have won a second had Carroll simply had him hand it to Lynch.

Team has dropped off a bit.  Lost running game and the defense ain’t what it used to be.  Glad he’s out of the Division.  He owned the Niners.

You're right on all counts.  Wilson is a top 10 QB, exactly #10 by ESPN's QBR rating. He was #20 in completion percentage (Garoppolo was #5). He was #18 in rushing yards by a quarterback.

Wilson did win one Super Bowl eight years ago, and lost the Super Bowl one year later.  Since then, he hasn't advanced past the divisional game.

I think QBR is a useful metric but far from definitive, particularly if you only go back one year - a year in which Wilson played with a compromised finger which clearly impacted his throws.

Setting that aside, Wilson was #10 last year. Right ahead of him at #9 was Carson Wentz. Right behind Wilson at #11 was Joe Burrow.

Also true that Wilson has only been to two Super Bowls, the most recent being seven years ago. Meanwhile the reigning back-to-back MVP of the league has been to a total of one Super Bowl in his career, eleven years ago.

And he's $200 million wealthier...

I think Garoppolo ends up with the Colts.  Colts have 73rd and 82nd overall picks in the third round.  One of those this year, another pick next year assuming Garoppolo satisfies certain conditions.  And the Colts steal a decent QB.

I’m not as statistic oriented as you, Mick. Wilson is and has been a top QB for years.  

As for JG, the Wentz trade makes things interesting.  What the Colts received is probably fairly close to JG’s market value.  OTOH, the list is shrinking - Rodgers, Brady, Wilson, Wentz off the board.

My understanding is that the Grand Jury is convening regarding possible criminal charges against Watson.  If they bring an indictment, he’s off the board.  If not - there are teams that may take the risk.  He’s a major talent.  

If Watson isn’t available, that increases JG’s trade value.  Niners didn’t want to wait (I don’t think). But surgery may have forced that.

1.  Agree that Wilson is an elite QB and better than Jimmy G;

2.  Agree that Petey screwed the pooch by NOT giving the rock to beast mode in the Super Bowl; however, it was Wilson who threw that pick at the goal line (even acknowledging a great play by the defender).  If that had been Jimmy G, I think the criticism for an ill-advised pass would have been much greater;

3.  A fully healthy Jimmy G is pretty dang good - perhaps good enough to lead the Colts to a Super Bowl.  But I'd still take a healthy Russ over Jimmy, regardless of what the stats may (or may not) say.

No way Jimmy ends up in Houston . . . Mills is better!

P.S.  Speaking of the Texans, can someone explain to me why Houston paid Watson last season to not show up and play?  If I'm Houston, I'd say "you're playing until the League says you're not by suspending you or putting you on the Commissioner's List" - at which point, Houston is not on the hook for his salary (I don't think).  Suspect there was some back-channel communications between Goodell's office and Texans' ownership.  Also, I've wondered why anyone has any sympathy for Watson, even pre-all the civil suits.  The guy demanded a new contract before his rookie deal was up; got it (which I support, btw), but then demanded to be traded or he would sit it out.  Eff that!

[DC 86]

Tentative agreement reached between baseball owners and players, pending ratification, per Jeff Passan.

[DC 86]

Tentative agreement reached between baseball owners and players, pending ratification, per Jeff Passan.

[Phogge]

Maybe someone in the Houston front office has a heart and decided that even if not suspended no way will we play a sexual bully. Would you have played him Teejers?

[Phogge]

Maybe someone in the Houston front office has a heart and decided that even if not suspended no way will we play a sexual bully. Would you have played him Teejers?