[Leftcoast]

I don't ascribe to the bigger is better principle when it comes to student population unless the campus infrastructure is in place first (dorms, dining, classroom seats, labs, etc.)  Also I feel the requirements for Stanford TA's should be upgraded.  Too many student TA's simply aren't that good at being class instructors.

Agreed...I hate to say it, but I did not have a great experience in some upper-level classes where my TAs had very limited command of the English language.  Did not make complex concepts easier to understand.

I had a professor for Stat 116 that did not speak English. I mean it literally. His lectures were totally unintelligible. He also couldn't work many of the problems from the textbook because he couldn't understand them. He was a visiting professor from mainland China. I never had problems with TAs that didn't speak the language, although I can see how that could happen. I did however have quite a few TAs whose grasp of the material was questionable.
 
When I was a TA myself I did have problems with a few students whose grasp of English wasn't all that great, but we worked through that. This was a graduate EE course and the students involved were French speakers. I don't speak French, so it took some doing. These students did speak some English so we could communicate except for vocabulary limitations. Once I figured out what they were asking it generally went OK :-).

My 1980s era CS TAs/lecturers were very, very good.  (Thank you Cory and the very colorful Stuart Reges).

I don't think I ever actually had a class from a real CS professor who as a group treated undergraduates as beneath them in the 80s.  (I'm excluding a few visits from a Prof during a class on assembler coding for the 6800 processor.)  Short-sighted and silly on their part since many of those snubbed undergrads went on to do impressive things.  (Excluding me from that august company!)

[Leftcoast]

I don't ascribe to the bigger is better principle when it comes to student population unless the campus infrastructure is in place first (dorms, dining, classroom seats, labs, etc.)  Also I feel the requirements for Stanford TA's should be upgraded.  Too many student TA's simply aren't that good at being class instructors.

Agreed...I hate to say it, but I did not have a great experience in some upper-level classes where my TAs had very limited command of the English language.  Did not make complex concepts easier to understand.

I had a professor for Stat 116 that did not speak English. I mean it literally. His lectures were totally unintelligible. He also couldn't work many of the problems from the textbook because he couldn't understand them. He was a visiting professor from mainland China. I never had problems with TAs that didn't speak the language, although I can see how that could happen. I did however have quite a few TAs whose grasp of the material was questionable.
 
When I was a TA myself I did have problems with a few students whose grasp of English wasn't all that great, but we worked through that. This was a graduate EE course and the students involved were French speakers. I don't speak French, so it took some doing. These students did speak some English so we could communicate except for vocabulary limitations. Once I figured out what they were asking it generally went OK :-).

My 1980s era CS TAs/lecturers were very, very good.  (Thank you Cory and the very colorful Stuart Reges).

I don't think I ever actually had a class from a real CS professor who as a group treated undergraduates as beneath them in the 80s.  (I'm excluding a few visits from a Prof during a class on assembler coding for the 6800 processor.)  Short-sighted and silly on their part since many of those snubbed undergrads went on to do impressive things.  (Excluding me from that august company!)

[Papa John]

I've worked at a UC campus for the past 25 years, and I can tell you that TA training has improved by leaps and bounds from the 1980s. I've only had a couple of international TAs, and their English and teaching proficiencies were excellent. I would add, however, that I don't teach engineering or CS.

I'm guessing that Stanford has implemented all kinds of orientation and training programs for TAs. I would be interested to hear the experiences of Stanford undergraduate alums from the 2010s and 2020s.

[Papa John]

I've worked at a UC campus for the past 25 years, and I can tell you that TA training has improved by leaps and bounds from the 1980s. I've only had a couple of international TAs, and their English and teaching proficiencies were excellent. I would add, however, that I don't teach engineering or CS.

I'm guessing that Stanford has implemented all kinds of orientation and training programs for TAs. I would be interested to hear the experiences of Stanford undergraduate alums from the 2010s and 2020s.

[CompSci87]

The couple of times I served as a CS TA in the 80s, the prof only had me correct homework and have office hours to help with student questions. Probably a good thing!

[CompSci87]

The couple of times I served as a CS TA in the 80s, the prof only had me correct homework and have office hours to help with student questions. Probably a good thing!

[jacket3ree]

I was a TA for E21 (fluid mechanics) in the 85/86 academic year. I think it was fairly rare to have MS students as TAs. Maybe they were desperate. I'm sure I was younger than a third of my students. I taught three lab sections, graded homework, and graded exams. Both professors were in their final quarters at Stanford with feet out the door, so I had to take the exams and make the grading keys for them. A lot of work, but wow did I have fluid mechanics down by necessity, which turned out to be a good thing for my career. I did get very good student reviews. Maybe it was Surfing Barbie and Surfing Ken in the flume accompanied by boom box surf music. (I recall the Raybeats in heavy rotation.) I think I was scarred from my own UG fluid mechanics lab experience when one prof gave us a zero because we added Jerry Mathers as the Beaver after our names on the report cover that one time. JFC, Spring Quarter in late May. "Neither Mr. Mathers nor Mr. Beaver are enrolled in this class. Zero." Tech Shaft!  I went the Santa Clause route at Stanford, which better fit the department aesthetic. Nobody was civil; everyone was EE or CS it seemed.

[jacket3ree]

I was a TA for E21 (fluid mechanics) in the 85/86 academic year. I think it was fairly rare to have MS students as TAs. Maybe they were desperate. I'm sure I was younger than a third of my students. I taught three lab sections, graded homework, and graded exams. Both professors were in their final quarters at Stanford with feet out the door, so I had to take the exams and make the grading keys for them. A lot of work, but wow did I have fluid mechanics down by necessity, which turned out to be a good thing for my career. I did get very good student reviews. Maybe it was Surfing Barbie and Surfing Ken in the flume accompanied by boom box surf music. (I recall the Raybeats in heavy rotation.) I think I was scarred from my own UG fluid mechanics lab experience when one prof gave us a zero because we added Jerry Mathers as the Beaver after our names on the report cover that one time. JFC, Spring Quarter in late May. "Neither Mr. Mathers nor Mr. Beaver are enrolled in this class. Zero." Tech Shaft!  I went the Santa Clause route at Stanford, which better fit the department aesthetic. Nobody was civil; everyone was EE or CS it seemed.

[george]

I had a professor for Stat 116 that did not speak English. I mean it literally. His lectures were totally unintelligible. He also couldn't work many of the problems from the textbook because he couldn't understand them. He was a visiting professor from mainland China. I never had problems with TAs that didn't speak the language, although I can see how that could happen. I did however have quite a few TAs whose grasp of the material was questionable.

I found most of my Stats 116 lectures totally unintelligible, but I don't think it had anything to do w/ the professor.

[george]

I had a professor for Stat 116 that did not speak English. I mean it literally. His lectures were totally unintelligible. He also couldn't work many of the problems from the textbook because he couldn't understand them. He was a visiting professor from mainland China. I never had problems with TAs that didn't speak the language, although I can see how that could happen. I did however have quite a few TAs whose grasp of the material was questionable.

I found most of my Stats 116 lectures totally unintelligible, but I don't think it had anything to do w/ the professor.

[TrumpCard]

We strayed pretty far from whether Stanford made the right decision to admit more students to the entering freshman class.  

But as long as we're here, I'll say that the most difficult thing about the intro to stats class I took was the 8:30 start time.  I had no issues with my prof or TA.  And I still smirk from time to time when I think of some of the non-stats stuff that prof said.  Despite being partially asleep in lecture, one useful thing I learned in stats class was the technique for measuring the statistically significant difference in grades I earned in classes that started at 10:00 a.m. or later compared to the early classes.  

Now that I have a daughter entering adolescence, I'm reminded that 8:00 a.m. school start times are inhumane, and I can already see how much my daughter will benefit when she gets to college and has the option to start her day a bit later.

[TrumpCard]

We strayed pretty far from whether Stanford made the right decision to admit more students to the entering freshman class.  

But as long as we're here, I'll say that the most difficult thing about the intro to stats class I took was the 8:30 start time.  I had no issues with my prof or TA.  And I still smirk from time to time when I think of some of the non-stats stuff that prof said.  Despite being partially asleep in lecture, one useful thing I learned in stats class was the technique for measuring the statistically significant difference in grades I earned in classes that started at 10:00 a.m. or later compared to the early classes.  

Now that I have a daughter entering adolescence, I'm reminded that 8:00 a.m. school start times are inhumane, and I can already see how much my daughter will benefit when she gets to college and has the option to start her day a bit later.

[BostonCard]

Now that I have a daughter entering adolescence, I'm reminded that 8:00 a.m. school start times are inhumane, and I can already see how much my daughter will benefit when she gets to college and has the option to start her day a bit later.

Furthering the thread drift… Florida just rescinded the law that would have put into practice a later start time for high schools:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/18/us/fl...sleep.html

To give teenagers more time to rest, he pushed for a new law that would require public high schools to start no earlier than 8:30 a.m. and middle schools no earlier than 8 a.m. In 2023, Florida became only the second state — after California, its political opposite — to adopt such a requirement, and it asked schools to comply by 2026.

“School start times are one of those issues that both Republicans and Democrats can get behind,” Mr. Renner said in an interview.

This year, it all fell apart.

Facing growing opposition from school administrators who said the later times were unworkable and costly, the Legislature repealed the requirement last month.

BC

[BostonCard]

Now that I have a daughter entering adolescence, I'm reminded that 8:00 a.m. school start times are inhumane, and I can already see how much my daughter will benefit when she gets to college and has the option to start her day a bit later.

Furthering the thread drift… Florida just rescinded the law that would have put into practice a later start time for high schools:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/18/us/fl...sleep.html

To give teenagers more time to rest, he pushed for a new law that would require public high schools to start no earlier than 8:30 a.m. and middle schools no earlier than 8 a.m. In 2023, Florida became only the second state — after California, its political opposite — to adopt such a requirement, and it asked schools to comply by 2026.

“School start times are one of those issues that both Republicans and Democrats can get behind,” Mr. Renner said in an interview.

This year, it all fell apart.

Facing growing opposition from school administrators who said the later times were unworkable and costly, the Legislature repealed the requirement last month.

BC

[Mick]

Comprehensive article (nine pros, 10 cons) on starting middle and high school later versus earlier. Cons seem largely logistical/financial, pros are largely physical with better health/cognition/safety.

19 Pros And Cons Of Starting School Later

Every class that I had that started before 10 a.m. was a rough go for me. As an adult, I thrived early. Not so much in middle/high school or college.

[Mick]

Comprehensive article (nine pros, 10 cons) on starting middle and high school later versus earlier. Cons seem largely logistical/financial, pros are largely physical with better health/cognition/safety.

19 Pros And Cons Of Starting School Later

Every class that I had that started before 10 a.m. was a rough go for me. As an adult, I thrived early. Not so much in middle/high school or college.

[TrumpCard]

I agree with that Renner guy.  I don't have to worry about the Terry Rule on this one.  Shifting the start time for middle/high schools a bit later is not a political issue.  It's a humanitarian issue.  If concerned about the costs, don't do make the shift just 15 or 30 minutes and then find yourself needing to adjust further in the same direction a year or two later.  Just jump straight to 9 a.m. start times.

[TrumpCard]

I agree with that Renner guy.  I don't have to worry about the Terry Rule on this one.  Shifting the start time for middle/high schools a bit later is not a political issue.  It's a humanitarian issue.  If concerned about the costs, don't do make the shift just 15 or 30 minutes and then find yourself needing to adjust further in the same direction a year or two later.  Just jump straight to 9 a.m. start times.

[dabigv13]

I think a big factor is when parents could drop their kids off. My wife and I both have jobs that would preclude us from dropping our kids off at 9. Some schools may have before school programs but not every one. The later the school day, probably the more kids would need before school programs, the higher the cost.

[dabigv13]

I think a big factor is when parents could drop their kids off. My wife and I both have jobs that would preclude us from dropping our kids off at 9. Some schools may have before school programs but not every one. The later the school day, probably the more kids would need before school programs, the higher the cost.

[BostonCard]

https://www.healthday.com/health-news/ch...ior-issues

I’ll just paste in the headline…

‘Lack Of Sleep Alters Teens' Brains, Potentially Promoting Behavior Issues’

BC

[BostonCard]

https://www.healthday.com/health-news/ch...ior-issues

I’ll just paste in the headline…

‘Lack Of Sleep Alters Teens' Brains, Potentially Promoting Behavior Issues’

BC

[Mick]

It doesn't surprise me that this society -- left, center and right -- underinvests in our children, as they have done for decades. Collectively, they don't care about the seed corn and focus on the needs of others. That is an apolitical statement. It's been like that for many years. So I doubt that our society would ever do the right thing and demand that schools schedule classes for optimal performance and health of our young.

[Mick]

It doesn't surprise me that this society -- left, center and right -- underinvests in our children, as they have done for decades. Collectively, they don't care about the seed corn and focus on the needs of others. That is an apolitical statement. It's been like that for many years. So I doubt that our society would ever do the right thing and demand that schools schedule classes for optimal performance and health of our young.

[cctop]

On the topic of TAs and English skills, a friend who went to Cal told me this (possibly apocryphal) story about a TA in his Intro to Statistics class:

TA: "Half time you flip coin, you get head."
Class (laughing): "Wait, wait, you're telling us that we can get head half of the times that we flip a coin?  That sounds really high."
TA:  "Yes yes yes!  And the other half time you flip coin, you get tail."

[cctop]

On the topic of TAs and English skills, a friend who went to Cal told me this (possibly apocryphal) story about a TA in his Intro to Statistics class:

TA: "Half time you flip coin, you get head."
Class (laughing): "Wait, wait, you're telling us that we can get head half of the times that we flip a coin?  That sounds really high."
TA:  "Yes yes yes!  And the other half time you flip coin, you get tail."