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RE: 2022 Giants thread - Mick - 04-26-2022
(04-26-2022, 10:47 PM)old spanish trail Wrote:(04-26-2022, 10:35 PM)Giants Wrote:(04-26-2022, 10:06 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: Two more HRs tonight. Flores and Slater both hit 3 run HR's. Giants lead the majors in HR's I think.
Toronto 26
LA Angels 24
Atlanta and SF 21
Okeydoke. Thanks.
The Giants have given up the fewest home runs in MLB with 9. The Giants do, however, lead MLB in RBIs right at this moment with 85. Also lead the majors in runs scored with 91. And have allowed the second fewest runs in MLB, with the second lowest ERA.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - OutsiderFan - 04-27-2022
The Giants go into their April 27 game vs. the A's with the best record in MLB, after Mets loss in St. Louis.
I'm still bitter the Giants didn't split with the Mets last week. Bart cost them Game 1 of the series they never should have lost, but it's nice to be on top of the heap almost a month into the season.
Of course, I don't care about having the best record. I want to win in post season. My fear is the Giants are building a great regular season team that doesn't translate in the post season because they have no truly great players and great players win championships.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - cardcrimson - 04-27-2022
(04-27-2022, 02:11 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The Giants go into their April 27 game vs. the A's with the best record in MLB, after Mets loss in St. Louis.
I'm still bitter the Giants didn't split with the Mets last week. Bart cost them Game 1 of the series they never should have lost, but it's nice to be on top of the heap almost a month into the season.
Of course, I don't care about having the best record. I want to win in post season. My fear is the Giants are building a great regular season team that doesn't translate in the post season because they have no truly great players and great players win championships.
The Atlanta Braves were certainly stacked with great players last year. . . .
RE: 2022 Giants thread - Giants - 04-27-2022
The postseason is all about pitching, especially bullpen depth. The Giants proved that to be true in 10, 12 and 14. This year, the Giants are built to succeed in the postseason, if they can just get there.
One other thought…
For every game that slips away, the Giants steal one they should have lost (Monday’s game v. Milwaukee is a case in point). Over a 162 game schedule, the heartbreaks and thefts balance out IF you are a good team and the Giants as currently constructed are a damn good team.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - OutsiderFan - 04-27-2022
(04-27-2022, 03:15 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:(04-27-2022, 02:11 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The Giants go into their April 27 game vs. the A's with the best record in MLB, after Mets loss in St. Louis.
I'm still bitter the Giants didn't split with the Mets last week. Bart cost them Game 1 of the series they never should have lost, but it's nice to be on top of the heap almost a month into the season.
Of course, I don't care about having the best record. I want to win in post season. My fear is the Giants are building a great regular season team that doesn't translate in the post season because they have no truly great players and great players win championships.
The Atlanta Braves were certainly stacked with great players last year. . . .
The Giants have nobody as good as Ozzie Albies or Freddie Freeman. The Giants lost to the Dodgers because they didn't have good enough hitting. They pitched well enough to win. They need better bats to win in post season.
Joc Pederson îs a big upgrade over Alex Dickerson, that's for sure, but they still don't have an Albies or Freeman level offensive powerhouse, and the Braves had Pederson themselves as well.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - Phogge - 04-27-2022
Well, boo hoo. They once had Mays, Cepeda, McCovey, Felipe, Harvey Kuenn (AL batting champ), Matty Alou (future batting champ), Manny Mota (best pinch hitter all time, maybe), two catchers who combined for 30+ HR, Juan Marichal, 24 game winner Jack Sanford, 16-6 Billy Pierce who should be in the Hall and half the best Dominican players in their system.
With all these great players only one pennant and 0 WS.
I like this bunch. Plus they are entertaining. BFD losing out on the whales.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - cardcrimson - 04-27-2022
(04-27-2022, 05:52 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(04-27-2022, 03:15 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:(04-27-2022, 02:11 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The Giants go into their April 27 game vs. the A's with the best record in MLB, after Mets loss in St. Louis.
I'm still bitter the Giants didn't split with the Mets last week. Bart cost them Game 1 of the series they never should have lost, but it's nice to be on top of the heap almost a month into the season.
Of course, I don't care about having the best record. I want to win in post season. My fear is the Giants are building a great regular season team that doesn't translate in the post season because they have no truly great players and great players win championships.
The Atlanta Braves were certainly stacked with great players last year. . . .
The Giants have nobody as good as Ozzie Albies or Freddie Freeman. The Giants lost to the Dodgers because they didn't have good enough hitting. They pitched well enough to win. They need better bats to win in post season.
Joc Pederson îs a big upgrade over Alex Dickerson, that's for sure, but they still don't have an Albies or Freeman level offensive powerhouse, and the Braves had Pederson themselves as well.
Ozzie Albies and Freddie Freeman are great players and offensive powerhouses?!?
As Giants pointed out above, the Giants did win three WS with pitching. Who on those teams were the requisite offensive powerhouses?
RE: 2022 Giants thread - DC 86 - 04-27-2022
(04-27-2022, 07:46 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:(04-27-2022, 05:52 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(04-27-2022, 03:15 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:(04-27-2022, 02:11 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The Giants go into their April 27 game vs. the A's with the best record in MLB, after Mets loss in St. Louis.
I'm still bitter the Giants didn't split with the Mets last week. Bart cost them Game 1 of the series they never should have lost, but it's nice to be on top of the heap almost a month into the season.
Of course, I don't care about having the best record. I want to win in post season. My fear is the Giants are building a great regular season team that doesn't translate in the post season because they have no truly great players and great players win championships.
The Atlanta Braves were certainly stacked with great players last year. . . .
The Giants have nobody as good as Ozzie Albies or Freddie Freeman. The Giants lost to the Dodgers because they didn't have good enough hitting. They pitched well enough to win. They need better bats to win in post season.
Joc Pederson îs a big upgrade over Alex Dickerson, that's for sure, but they still don't have an Albies or Freeman level offensive powerhouse, and the Braves had Pederson themselves as well.
Ozzie Albies and Freddie Freeman are great players and offensive powerhouses?!?
As Giants pointed out above, the Giants did win three WS with pitching. Who on those teams were the requisite offensive powerhouses?
I'll side with Giants on this one, albeit substituting Austin Riley for Albies (who's nothing special). Last year Freeman hit 300/393/503 in 695 plate appearances, Riley hit 303/367/531 in 662 plate appearances. I can't imagine anyone in the Giants lineup coming close to those numbers this year.
As for the three WS champs, the following hitters put up OPS+ above 130 (30% above league average) in significant plate appearances on those teams: Buster Posey, Aubrey Huff and Pat Burrell in 2010; Buster Posey (who hit 336/408/549 and was league MVP) and Melky Cabrera in 2012; Buster Posey and Mike Morse in 2014. Who on this year's team projects to hit at those levels? maybe Brandon Belt, but how many games will he play?
RE: 2022 Giants thread - Phogge - 04-27-2022
Dodgers won without a consistent powerhouse. Great pitching and speed. Maury Wills, Willie Davis, a couple of good years by an older Gilliam. Tommy Davis looked to be the superstar but an ankle injury turned him into just a good player.
AND... we could enjoy the game without exit velocity, massive shifting, a designated runner in the 10th inning and all the analytics that ends up being horseshit.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - Giants - 04-27-2022
LA was all about pitching back then. Very few rotations have ever been as good as Koufax, Drysdale, Podres and Osteen with Perranoski in the pen. The only sure thing the Giants had v. LA in those days was McCovey v. Drysdale. Willie Mac owned double D.
Good news on the horizon, Phogge…
The ghost runner and shift will both be things of the past next year.
OTOH, exit velocity and other analytics are here to stay
RE: 2022 Giants thread - lex24 - 04-28-2022
(04-27-2022, 11:20 PM)Giants Wrote: LA was all about pitching back then. Very few rotations have ever been as good as Koufax, Drysdale, Podres and Osteen with Perranoski in the pen. The only sure thing the Giants had v. LA in those days was McCovey v. Drysdale. Willie Mac owned double D.
Good news on the horizon, Phogge…
The ghost runner and shift will both be things of the past next year.
OTOH, exit velocity and other analytics are here to stay
Shifts will hopefully be gone. At least take away the guy playing short right. But I think Ghost Runner may be here to stay. Players like it.Also think they bring in pitch clock. It’s having a big impact in minor leagues.
Giants injuries are piling up. Pederson to have MRI on groin today. And Flores (my goodness is he slow) may have hurt himself “sprinting” to first in the 9th.
Good news is Wade and Yaz may be close to coming back. And La Stella is close to starting a rehab. He should be ready by next April……
RE: 2022 Giants thread - DC 86 - 04-28-2022
(04-27-2022, 10:01 PM)Phogge Wrote: Dodgers won without a consistent powerhouse. Great pitching and speed.
Sixty years later it's a different game - different parks, different mound, different ball even. If stealing bases and bunting was the way to win in this era then teams would be doing those things.
(04-27-2022, 10:01 PM)Phogge Wrote: AND... we could enjoy the game without exit velocity, massive shifting, a designated runner in the 10th inning and all the analytics that ends up being horseshit.
Don't forget spin rate!
(04-27-2022, 10:01 PM)Phogge Wrote: and all the analytics that ends up being horseshit.
The Giants would be in big trouble if they weren't among the sharpest front offices in using analytics.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - Mick - 04-28-2022
(04-27-2022, 06:08 PM)Phogge Wrote: Well, boo hoo. They once had Mays, Cepeda, McCovey, Felipe, Harvey Kuenn (AL batting champ), Matty Alou (future batting champ), Manny Mota (best pinch hitter all time, maybe), two catchers who combined for 30+ HR, Juan Marichal, 24 game winner Jack Sanford, 16-6 Billy Pierce who should be in the Hall and half the best Dominican players in their system.
With all these great players only one pennant and 0 WS.
I like this bunch. Plus they are entertaining. BFD losing out on the whales.
Agreed, and let's throw in Bobby Bonds, Jack Clark, Chili Davis, Will Clark, Jim Ray Hart, Ed Bailey, Tom Haller, Billy O'Dell, Garry Matthews, Gary Maddox, Willie Kirkland, Bob Shaw, Gaylord Perry, Bobby Bolin, George Foster, et al
RE: 2022 Giants thread - BobK - 04-28-2022
Mike McCormick
And that 24 game winner Bryant
RE: 2022 Giants thread - Mick - 04-28-2022
Chris Speier. Tito. Dave Rader. Kong. The Count. Moffitt. Lavelle.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - Phogge - 04-28-2022
DC I dig that Farhan and Coconuts are using the new metrics because the Giants are winning. I just like the way the game used to be played. I'm just a bad boy. I liked college football when the games at the old stadium were played at 1:30 (pre the 12:30 TV window) and there were no TV time outs because only a handful of games were on TV. Plenty of time to tail gate early and not have to get home after 11pm.
I liked walking into St. Clair's liquor store where Bob himself would give you an extra Big Hunk or a Mars bar. Standing in line in the rain at Buds. Watching your own It's It get fixed at Playland. Actually among hundreds of kids playing kick the can or touch football on the streets. Playing strikeout until you could hardly see the ball.
Yeah, I'm an old fart but I like simple things and I can't imagine growing up today with the angst level on steroids.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - OutsiderFan - 04-28-2022
I had a discussion with a Giants fan friend today about the Giants' model.
He suggested that it looks like the team is almost trying to turn the fans into fans of the front office more than the players. Like, they are valuing their process and baseball operation more than they do talented players. The evidence suggests this is what is happening. The question is if it is a byproduct of the Zaidi approach or if the approach is designed to de-emphasize the value of individual players to win while saving money.
What I find fascinating is how the Giants seem to have managed walking a fine line between getting players to run through a wall for the team and ruthlessly replacing them when they don't perform. Usually those things don't go hand-in-hand.
If fans root for the front office because the team wins games with a large cast of characters, they don't see any individual players as any more important than others, which allows ownership to drive down payroll absent any star players.
The Giants haven't won a top of market free agent since Barry Bonds and Zito. If they wanted Suzuki they simply would have paid more than anyone else to get him. They could have signed Gausman (31k, 0 BB, 0 HR 2.19 ERA so far) instead of Cobb and still been way, way under the luxury tax. So the Giants wouldn't pay to keep a guy they had and wouldn't pay what it took to get a guy they didn't have.
So I think my Cal grad friend is on to something.
Thoughts?
RE: 2022 Giants thread - Phogge - 04-28-2022
I think that the problem with the older players is that they give bad groin.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - Giants - 04-28-2022
With all due respect, both you and your Cal fan are completely wrong….
1. The Giants organization is loyal to a fault to their players. They have resigned guys to big contracts year after year. Why? Because they know the fans are invested in the players. Heck, in many cases, this has been a detriment to the performance of the club. The Giants organization (since the Sabean era) are well aware of the value of continuity and the connection between the fans and players. Quite frankly, I think your friend confused the Giants and A’s. If you want a good example of a team that spotlights its GM and rotates through players without regard, look no further than Billy (Mr. Turnover) Beane.
2. Carlos Rodon was a top dollar FA (his AAV is the same as Gausman’s). SF signed him. As for Suzuki, where is your irrefutable proof that he would have signed with SF had the Giants offered more than anyone else? Free agents make their decisions based on many factors. Finances are only one piece of the puzzle.
3. Gausman? A five year deal was a non-starter. SF made the right move passing on him in favor of the three shorter term contracts (Cobb, Rodon and DeSclafani).
Based on your remarks, you would think the Giants are fumbling around at the bottom of the NL. In fact, they are coming off a franchise record 107 win season and currently lead the NL West.
The bottom line is fielding a competitive team that is in the mix all season. The Giants currently meet that objective.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - BobK - 04-28-2022
Right on Giants. Strange comments.
Now for an organization that knew when to cut ties look at a different SF team. The 49ers under Walsh. And three super Bowl wins as coach 4th as GM