Men's and Women's Gymnastics - Printable Version
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RE: Men's Gymnastics - akiddoc - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 07:58 PM)DC 86 Wrote:(07-27-2021, 07:32 PM)needle Wrote: In my mind, it seems like a move from someone very proud who believes they are past their prime and thus would have had no shot at the type of performance necessary for team gold.
Disagree. She could have walked through the four segments and the US would have won the gold. But gymnastics is a dangerous sport and if her head wasn't right I assume she didn't feel comfortable performing her high-difficulty routines, particularly on vault. Akkidoc would know better than me, but that's my impression.
Yep. Biles could have toned it down and the team would have won.
RE: Men's Gymnastics - DC 86 - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 08:35 PM)Phogge Wrote: Luck played all 16 regular season games and two playoffs and retired after the season.
He quit on nobody in the middle of competition.
I don't think Luck "quit" on anybody given his physical/mental situation, but he retired one week before the start of the season, not "after the season". If he has retired "after the season" the Colts would have had time to make adjustments instead of wasting a season before being able to reset their roster. Luck retired between the last preseason game and the first regular season game, pretty unsettling for the team to lose their starting QB at that point, not that different from Biles quitting between the the preliminary and final rounds of the team competition; unfortunate but others took her place and actually performed well. Neither situation was good, but in any case I don't think Luck or Biles felt they had a real choice in their minds, which is what really matters.
RE: Men's Gymnastics - Goose - 07-27-2021
I think there is no question that Biles did the right thing given her mental state. She just didn't have it and she knew it. Does that affect her "legacy"? Sure it does. One of the most difficult things a truly great athlete has to do is handle the pressure. For years, she did. Eventually, she didn't. The GOAT doesn't go out that way. However, another factor is that she is getting a bit long in the tooth for women's gymnastics. I can't help but wonder about her doubts having do do with some deterioration in her performance. It may be things others don't see, but she did. That can fuel doubt and fear. You aren't who you used to be. Some day, you won't be able to perform to your own standards. Is that day today?
The big difference between what Biles did and what Luck did was that Luck could still play, he just wasn't willing to accept the pain and suffering that would go with it. It was a choice. Biles was unable to compete because of her mental state. One was voluntary, one was not.
RE: Men's Gymnastics - DC 86 - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 09:13 PM)Goose Wrote: However, another factor is that she is getting a bit long in the tooth for women's gymnastics. I can't help but wonder about her doubts having do do with some deterioration in her performance.
Three months ago she became the first woman ever to land the incredibly difficult Yurchenko double pike in competition, so if she's gotten "long in the tooth" it happened suddenly. However, I do think that the pressure affected her to the point that she developed "the yips" and that she was overthinking and losing confidence in being able to perform, and unlike in golf the yips in gymnastics can result in catastrophic injury.
RE: Men's Gymnastics - rogpodge - 07-27-2021
I'm seeing reports that she's experiencing aerial disorientation. If that means she can no longer orient to the ground while in the air, that basically means she can't do high bar, uneven bar, and probably even the long passes in the floor routine. Akiddoc, have you heard of aerial disorientation? Is it stress related, inner-ear, or other?
RE: Men's Gymnastics - akiddoc - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 10:29 PM)rogpodge Wrote: I'm seeing reports that she's experiencing aerial disorientation. If that means she can no longer orient to the ground while in the air, that basically means she can't do high bar, uneven bar, and probably even the long passes in the floor routine. Akiddoc, have you heard of aerial disorientation? Is it stress related, inner-ear, or other?If that was accurate she would not have been landing that vault with the double pike. That is incredibly difficult. My son says there is a reason that almost no men can do that vault, and never another woman.
I don't pretend to know what happened. I'm pretty sure it's a mental health thing. Even with her injuries she's at the peak of her physical abilities.
RE: Men's Gymnastics - BostonCard - 07-27-2021
Good reminder…
[tweet]https://twitter.com/chadmreese/status/1420054211706884098?s=21[/tweet]
BC
RE: Men's Gymnastics - spike5882 - 07-28-2021
(07-27-2021, 08:35 PM)Phogge Wrote: Luck played all 16 regular season games and two playoffs and retired after the season.
He quit on nobody in the middle of competition.
I wouldn’t say Biles ‘quit’ on anybody either. She has literally handed gold medals to her country and teammates the past two olympics. She doesn’t owe her teammates, fans, country anything and yet she has always given them plenty.
The only person she owes anything to is herself, and she showed herself some respect in her decision. Had she continued and was uncomfortable with it, she’d have been quitting on herself. That wouldn’t have been ok. It’s ok to choose yourself when in mental disarray, and we as fans should stop making athletes feel like they can’t or shouldn’t.
RE: Men's Gymnastics - rogpodge - 07-28-2021
Quote:If that was accurate she would not have been landing that vault with the double pike. That is incredibly difficult. My son says there is a reason that almost no men can do that vault, and never another woman.
I don't pretend to know what happened. I'm pretty sure it's a mental health thing. Even with her injuries she's at the peak of her physical abilities.
Thank you. Can it be a sudden onset thing? I'm seeing some of the pictures from her landing (often accompanying unkind think-pieces) where she seems genuinely freaked out upon landing. I'm assuming that her brain / muscle memory / reaction times made the landing look easier than it would be for a lesser athlete. But she looks shaken upon landing, and not in the oh crap I screwed up / didn't perform kind of way, but genuine fear. The human brain is so complex and how we perceive and interact with our physical environment still isn't fully understood. Amazing to see when it's all working in harmony. Devastating to watch when it goes from working to not working.
RE: Men's Gymnastics - Phogge - 07-28-2021
Thinking of Robb Nen gutting it out with a dead arm.
RE: Men's Gymnastics - BostonCard - 07-28-2021
[tweet] https://twitter.com/EmilyGiam/status/1420030223530213377[/tweet]
Akiddoc?
BC
RE: Men's Gymnastics - DC 86 - 07-28-2021
(07-28-2021, 08:40 AM)Phogge Wrote: Thinking of Robb Nen gutting it out with a dead arm.
Pitching with a dead arm doesn't risk landing on your head and breaking your neck.
RE: Men's Gymnastics - 82lsju - 07-28-2021
Brody Malone finishes 10th in the men's gymnastics all around
RE: Men's Gymnastics - martyup - 07-28-2021
Well, IMO the press can look in the mirror to find the reason Biles withdrew from the competition. I have watched them build her up as the GOAT and a sure lock on multiple gold medals at the Olympics. They have aired numerous video profiles building her up as this amazing and invincible gymnastics machine. When I saw the build up, I thought to myself that this was a perfect set up for a let down. That is too much pressure to put on a person that has suffered so much abuse in her short lifetime. It turns out that she is a human, not a machine. The press didn't get their scripted glorious ending. I hope Simone can move on and live a long and happy life.
RE: Men's Gymnastics - 82lsju - 07-28-2021
(07-28-2021, 09:26 AM)BostonCard Wrote: [tweet] https://twitter.com/EmilyGiam/status/1420030223530213377[/tweet]
Akiddoc?
BC
more on the twisties here
https://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/for-petes-sake/article253081378.html?fbclid=IwAR3idUHzxJnByfUjKytyi76EN856Y86gPO6CZGAEh9GGgG3zcDs3z1iZTZs
Quote:It’s not that different from an athlete having the “yips.” But unlike former MLB player Chuck Knoblauch having trouble throwing to second base, a gymnast with the “twisties” can lose his or her bearings while in the air. That can be a dangerous situation.
Gymnasts frequently flip and twist at the same time and the mind knows how and where the body is moving. CNN called it “proprioception, a sense of where your body is in space and what it’s doing.”
Usually, a gymnast’s mind can process those two requests. But when it doesn’t, the “twisties” can occur.
RE: Men's Gymnastics - BostonCard - 07-28-2021
[tweet]https://twitter.com/Olympics/status/1420252620967583748?s=20[/tweet]
Biles will not be competing in the individual all-around finals. I wish her a swift recovery.
BC
RE: Men's Gymnastics - oldalum - 07-28-2021
(07-28-2021, 10:49 AM)DC 86 Wrote: Pitching with a dead arm doesn't risk landing on your head and breaking your neck.Yes. Gymnasts have become paralyzed from falls. Rare but my wife saw it happen in person when she was in college, and the risks of what they were doing then are a fraction of what they are now. More common are some pretty sickening orthopedic injuries.
RE: Men's Gymnastics - DC 86 - 07-28-2021
(07-28-2021, 12:58 PM)oldalum Wrote:(07-28-2021, 10:49 AM)DC 86 Wrote: Pitching with a dead arm doesn't risk landing on your head and breaking your neck.Yes. Gymnasts have become paralyzed from falls. Rare but my wife saw it happen in person when she was in college, and the risks of what they were doing then are a fraction of what they are now. More common are some pretty sickening orthopedic injuries.
Stanford's Adriana Duffy in 1989 doing a vault. I speculated earlier in the thread that Biles looked like she had the yips, but whether that's the case or not if she doesn't feel confident or that her head is 100% then passing on her routines seems like a wise decision.
RE: Men's Gymnastics - teejers1 - 07-28-2021
(07-27-2021, 08:51 PM)DC 86 Wrote:(07-27-2021, 08:35 PM)Phogge Wrote: Luck played all 16 regular season games and two playoffs and retired after the season.
He quit on nobody in the middle of competition.
I don't think Luck "quit" on anybody given his physical/mental situation, but he retired one week before the start of the season, not "after the season". If he has retired "after the season" the Colts would have had time to make adjustments instead of wasting a season before being able to reset their roster. Luck retired between the last preseason game and the first regular season game, pretty unsettling for the team to lose their starting QB at that point, not that different from Biles quitting between the the preliminary and final rounds of the team competition; unfortunate but others took her place and actually performed well. Neither situation was good, but in any case I don't think Luck or Biles felt they had a real choice in their minds, which is what really matters.
Why are you insisting on equating two entirely different situations?
And specifically, how do you know Luck quit because of mental health issues, as opposed to having the ever-loving crap beaten out of him for years and the inability to recover physically from same?
(07-28-2021, 11:46 AM)martyup Wrote: Well, IMO the press can look in the mirror to find the reason Biles withdrew from the competition. I have watched them build her up as the GOAT and a sure lock on multiple gold medals at the Olympics. They have aired numerous video profiles building her up as this amazing and invincible gymnastics machine. When I saw the build up, I thought to myself that this was a perfect set up for a let down. That is too much pressure to put on a person that has suffered so much abuse in her short lifetime. It turns out that she is a human, not a machine. The press didn't get their scripted glorious ending. I hope Simone can move on and live a long and happy life.
The press didn't force Simone Biles to inscribe "GOAT" on her leotard or what have you. Please. She embraced whatever you believe the press built up.
She got the yips (or "twisties"), plain and simple. As as someone noted, yips in gymnastics can be dangerous, so she bowed out. Her decision. Sucks for her and her teammates, but that's life.
RE: Men's and Women's Gymnastics - Phogge - 07-28-2021
Ralph Branca may have been the biggest loser in baseball history (Ray Chapman lost more) but made a career out of his relationship with Bobby Thomson. I hope this makes the kid stronger and the sooner she tosses her leotard the better.