When is Elijah Brown back? - Printable Version
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RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - CardinalSagehen - 10-15-2024
(10-15-2024, 05:40 AM)Goose Wrote:(10-14-2024, 09:17 PM)CardinalSagehen Wrote: There is always the potential for a minor injury during the three more games that most of us would like to see him play - if he plays earlier, he can still come back later and stay under three games.Agree with almost all your points. I do however believe that the decision to redshirt him should be based almost totally on whether it "probably" get us to six wins. There is no reason to deny him the possibility of playing his a year five (at Stanford or elsewhere) unless it has a very tangible benefit to Stanford this year. By his year five Stanford may have a better option :-) or it will be clear (to him at least) that playing elsewhere for a year would be to his overall advantage. The very last thing we want to do (if Brown is our QB1 at that point) is force that decision to be made in year four (because it is his "last chance").
By starting to play him earlier, assuming he's healthy, the coaches still maintain the option of playing him for the rest of the season or not. This can depend on how it's going and whether it makes a meaningful difference in our ability to win games right now.
It's unlikely that Brown will be with Stanford for all 5 years, but if he is, there's always the chance of major injury during the early part of one of those other seasons. He could take his redshirt then.
The stretch of Wake Forest (game 8) and NC State (game 9) is an easy part of the schedule. I like the idea of playing him vs. a very soft Wake Forest defense to get his feet wet. It's one step up from Cal Poly. The only reasons not to do this would be if he's not yet healthy enough or if he's strongly against it.
While Andrew Luck did stay, his NFL#1 draft choice future was not in doubt. That isn't typical. Had Luck played the previous year that fifth year would not have been available. It wasn't worth it, to Luck or to Stanford. If there is a probable sixth win in it IMO burning Brown's shirt might make sense. Otherwise, it doesn't (for him or Stanford).
That's an interesting point. I think the big unknowable factor is what Brown thinks of all of this - our coaches shouldn't try to overrule that. And it's likely that we play him and determine that he doesn't make enough of a difference with this year's supporting cast to warrant burning his shirt. In that case, the whole discussion is moot.
However, if we still suck so badly in 2-3 years that a good QB can't showcase his skills here, then does it really matter (to Stanford) whether we redshirted him this year anyway? We're not in a powerhouse program's situation where everything can be carefully planned 2-3 years in advance - we need to start winning right now or the trend will continue with no end in sight. URGENCY.
I don't see six wins as a magic cutoff point. In my view, the team and the coach are in a struggle to earn maximum wins this year to show a trend and build confidence. Four wins is not exciting, but it's better than three, and five would be acceptable as a sign of progress. There's still a risk of two or three wins - can TT come back from that?
If Brown is great, the main hope of retaining him would be that he wants his degree from Stanford. (This was the case for Luck as well.) And in that case, he's probably leaving after he gets his degree anyway, but at least we played him as much as we could. If he doesn't cherish the Stanford experience and degree, then he might choose to leave at any point for more money or a better program. Those things will always be out there.
It's worth noting that Luck played only three seasons at Stanford after redshirting his first year. He still had a fifth year available to him when he left for the draft. It's hard to argue with the results because Luck was other-worldly by the time he started playing as a redshirt freshman, but we essentially wasted one year of his eligibility because he likely would have stayed for his final season in 2011 either way (for the degree).
For all of these reasons, I favor playing the QB that gives us the best chance to win now, assuming any QB gives us a materially better chance.
RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - Goose - 10-15-2024
(10-15-2024, 09:11 AM)SkiBum80 Wrote: One point about this discussion I'm not clear about, and hoping someone more knowledgeable can reply.I am pretty sure both parties are involved in the decision. If they disagree then it comes down to how much does the coach want to create a bone of contention with the player. The coach always has the option of simply not playing somebody that wants to play. In the "old days" the player had to just grin and bear it. In today's world the portal is an option. If the coach wants you to play but you would prefer to "redshirt" you can simply refuse to play. Of course, you probably better enter the portal because you are now persona non grata. In most cases a "meeting of the minds" occurs short of direct confrontation.
Having to do with the redshirt decision.
I thought the decision to redshirt a player was officially up to the Coach.
That is, that the Coach signed off/authorized/reported the redshirt decision to the conference or to the NCAA.
So I'm confused by comments to the effect of "Brown deciding to redshirt.." as compared to "Coach deciding to redshirt Brown..."
But what I don't know is if in practice the decision is truly left up to the player and the Coach just stamps the decision as it goes by his desk?
RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - Card07 - 10-15-2024
lex24 dateline='[url=tel:1729001668' Wrote: 1729001668[/url]']
Row80Critic dateline='[url=tel:1728841691' Wrote: 1728841691[/url]']
This team can't improve without better QB play. That's not the only problem, of course, but watching Oregon and OSU last night really drove home home the difference a QB can make. Sure, both teams are better overall, but it would have been a lop-sided game if either team had a Stanford's level of QB play. Stanford needs to test out Brown asap to see if he's really the QB they hope he is...
Maybe Dillon Gabriel will transfer to Stanford. I think he’s eligible for an 8th year….
Goose dateline='[url=tel:1728996042' Wrote: 1728996042[/url]']
CardinalSagehen dateline='[url=tel:1728965856' Wrote: 1728965856[/url]']Agree with almost all your points. I do however believe that the decision to redshirt him should be based almost totally on whether it "probably" get us to six wins. There is no reason to deny him the possibility of playing his a year five (at Stanford or elsewhere) unless it has a very tangible benefit to Stanford this year. By his year five Stanford may have a better option :-) or it will be clear (to him at least) that playing elsewhere for a year would be to his overall advantage. The very last thing we want to do (if Brown is our QB1 at that point) is force that decision to be made in year four (because it is his "last chance").
There is always the potential for a minor injury during the three more games that most of us would like to see him play - if he plays earlier, he can still come back later and stay under three games.
By starting to play him earlier, assuming he's healthy, the coaches still maintain the option of playing him for the rest of the season or not. This can depend on how it's going and whether it makes a meaningful difference in our ability to win games right now.
It's unlikely that Brown will be with Stanford for all 5 years, but if he is, there's always the chance of major injury during the early part of one of those other seasons. He could take his redshirt then.
The stretch of Wake Forest (game 8) and NC State (game 9) is an easy part of the schedule. I like the idea of playing him vs. a very soft Wake Forest defense to get his feet wet. It's one step up from Cal Poly. The only reasons not to do this would be if he's not yet healthy enough or if he's strongly against it.
While Andrew Luck did stay, his NFL#1 draft choice future was not in doubt. That isn't typical. Had Luck played the previous year that fifth year would not have been available. It wasn't worth it, to Luck or to Stanford. If there is a probable sixth win in it IMO burning Brown's shirt might make sense. Otherwise, it doesn't (for him or Stanford).
Redshirting anyone that is capable of playing on this team in this environment makes no sense. The odds of Brown, or anyone else that is a good player staying 4 much less 5 years are slim and none.
Consider this - Hunter Dickinson is a AA level basketball player. He left Michigan for Kansas. He was getting $140,000 in NIL at Michigan. Kansas reportedly offered him $4 Million. He got some social media heat, to which he responded - the people criticizing me would change jobs for a $10,000 raise. Not exactly a smart thing to say. But essentially true. Who among us at 21 (or for that matter now) would NOT change “jobs” for a 3.86 Million dollar raise. These aren’t college athletes anymore. At least not the top performers. They are pros, playing on one year deals. Stanford won’t join issue. So, if Brown shines, he will soon be gone. The “40 year decision “ can’t compete with a Million bucks. Or, more. So, you might as well get what you can out of him.
And then, of course, there is the reported “fact “ that the average salary for an SEC starting QB is more than Brock Purdy’s $984,000 contract.
The landscape has changed. As far as I’m concerned of the only reason to redshirt anyone is that they’re not physically ready to play or they are buried in the death chart.
If he’s not physically ready, then obviously he can’t be put out there. If he is, play him. There is no reason not to. He can’t be worse than what we’ve seen to date. Although, if he is, at least he will stay awhile…..
EDIT: It appears I fell victim to fake news on Dickinson. I should know better. He claims he was making less than 6 figure at Michigan. Estimates are he’s making about $280,000 a year at Kansas. Doesn’t change my point. But the numbers are less dramatic.
One thing to keep in mind is that these still aren’t technically salaries… Yet. I anticipate that four years from now after the courts get involved the Landscape of NIL will look dramatically different.
RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - old spanish trail - 10-15-2024
Dramatically different how?
RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - murky - 10-15-2024
(10-15-2024, 08:15 AM)needle Wrote: If the player's services are in demand, then the decision to redshirt lies with the player...
Do you know this to be true under Taylor, or is that conjecture.
My presumption is that if coach says you are playing, you play if you ever expect to play for the team again.
RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - BostonCard - 10-15-2024
(10-15-2024, 07:14 AM)lex24 Wrote: The landscape has changed. As far as I’m concerned of the only reason to redshirt anyone is that they’re not physically ready to play or they are buried in the death chart.
I mean, I know we're a moribund team, but that seems a bit excessive.
BC
RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - fullmetal - 10-15-2024
(10-15-2024, 01:35 PM)murky Wrote:(10-15-2024, 08:15 AM)needle Wrote: If the player's services are in demand, then the decision to redshirt lies with the player...
Do you know this to be true under Taylor, or is that conjecture.
My presumption is that if coach says you are playing, you play if you ever expect to play for the team again.
Yes, but the presumption is that if the player decides to self-redshirt in contravention to the coach's wishes, it is because the player has decided to save a year of eligibility for use at a future, different institution.
RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - BobK - 10-15-2024
Actually possible this week for Brown
RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - Jamesy - 10-15-2024
(10-15-2024, 02:33 PM)fullmetal Wrote:(10-15-2024, 01:35 PM)murky Wrote:(10-15-2024, 08:15 AM)needle Wrote: If the player's services are in demand, then the decision to redshirt lies with the player...
Do you know this to be true under Taylor, or is that conjecture.
My presumption is that if coach says you are playing, you play if you ever expect to play for the team again.
Yes, but the presumption is that if the player decides to self-redshirt in contravention to the coach's wishes, it is because the player has decided to save a year of eligibility for use at a future, different institution.
There were several players after week 4 that announced they were redshirting the rest of the season. I assume that was mostly player rather than coach driven.
BobK, I would be shocked if Elijah played this weekend.
RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - lex24 - 10-15-2024
Card07 dateline='[url=tel:1729019408' Wrote: 1729019408[/url]']
lex24 dateline='[url=tel:1729001668' Wrote: 1729001668[/url]']
Row80Critic dateline='[url=tel:1728841691' Wrote: 1728841691[/url]']
This team can't improve without better QB play. That's not the only problem, of course, but watching Oregon and OSU last night really drove home home the difference a QB can make. Sure, both teams are better overall, but it would have been a lop-sided game if either team had a Stanford's level of QB play. Stanford needs to test out Brown asap to see if he's really the QB they hope he is...
Maybe Dillon Gabriel will transfer to Stanford. I think he’s eligible for an 8th year….
Goose dateline='[url=tel:1728996042' Wrote: 1728996042[/url]']
CardinalSagehen dateline='[url=tel:1728965856' Wrote: 1728965856[/url]']Agree with almost all your points. I do however believe that the decision to redshirt him should be based almost totally on whether it "probably" get us to six wins. There is no reason to deny him the possibility of playing his a year five (at Stanford or elsewhere) unless it has a very tangible benefit to Stanford this year. By his year five Stanford may have a better option :-) or it will be clear (to him at least) that playing elsewhere for a year would be to his overall advantage. The very last thing we want to do (if Brown is our QB1 at that point) is force that decision to be made in year four (because it is his "last chance").
There is always the potential for a minor injury during the three more games that most of us would like to see him play - if he plays earlier, he can still come back later and stay under three games.
By starting to play him earlier, assuming he's healthy, the coaches still maintain the option of playing him for the rest of the season or not. This can depend on how it's going and whether it makes a meaningful difference in our ability to win games right now.
It's unlikely that Brown will be with Stanford for all 5 years, but if he is, there's always the chance of major injury during the early part of one of those other seasons. He could take his redshirt then.
The stretch of Wake Forest (game 8) and NC State (game 9) is an easy part of the schedule. I like the idea of playing him vs. a very soft Wake Forest defense to get his feet wet. It's one step up from Cal Poly. The only reasons not to do this would be if he's not yet healthy enough or if he's strongly against it.
While Andrew Luck did stay, his NFL#1 draft choice future was not in doubt. That isn't typical. Had Luck played the previous year that fifth year would not have been available. It wasn't worth it, to Luck or to Stanford. If there is a probable sixth win in it IMO burning Brown's shirt might make sense. Otherwise, it doesn't (for him or Stanford).
Redshirting anyone that is capable of playing on this team in this environment makes no sense. The odds of Brown, or anyone else that is a good player staying 4 much less 5 years are slim and none.
Consider this - Hunter Dickinson is a AA level basketball player. He left Michigan for Kansas. He was getting $140,000 in NIL at Michigan. Kansas reportedly offered him $4 Million. He got some social media heat, to which he responded - the people criticizing me would change jobs for a $10,000 raise. Not exactly a smart thing to say. But essentially true. Who among us at 21 (or for that matter now) would NOT change “jobs” for a 3.86 Million dollar raise. These aren’t college athletes anymore. At least not the top performers. They are pros, playing on one year deals. Stanford won’t join issue. So, if Brown shines, he will soon be gone. The “40 year decision “ can’t compete with a Million bucks. Or, more. So, you might as well get what you can out of him.
And then, of course, there is the reported “fact “ that the average salary for an SEC starting QB is more than Brock Purdy’s $984,000 contract.
The landscape has changed. As far as I’m concerned of the only reason to redshirt anyone is that they’re not physically ready to play or they are buried in the death chart.
If he’s not physically ready, then obviously he can’t be put out there. If he is, play him. There is no reason not to. He can’t be worse than what we’ve seen to date. Although, if he is, at least he will stay awhile…..
EDIT: It appears I fell victim to fake news on Dickinson. I should know better. He claims he was making less than 6 figure at Michigan. Estimates are he’s making about $280,000 a year at Kansas. Doesn’t change my point. But the numbers are less dramatic.
One thing to keep in mind is that these still aren’t technically salaries… Yet. I anticipate that four years from now after the courts get involved the Landscape of NIL will look dramatically different.
Yes. Admittedly I was using the word “salary” loosely.
RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - CardinalSagehen - 10-15-2024
From the horse's mouth (TT) today: https://youtu.be/tTYW3dpIEVA?t=515
He's progressed much more rapidly than they expected, and it's really just a matter of when he feels comfortable and ready to roll. "Will it be this week? I don't know if that's possible. I guess it's possible. I don't know that that will happen, but he's definitely getting ready a lot quicker than we thought."
Reading the tea leaves, all signs point to Wake...
(10-15-2024, 01:49 PM)BostonCard Wrote:(10-15-2024, 07:14 AM)lex24 Wrote: The landscape has changed. As far as I’m concerned of the only reason to redshirt anyone is that they’re not physically ready to play or they are buried in the death chart.
I mean, I know we're a moribund team, but that seems a bit excessive.
BC
Nice one!
Brown is not buried in the Death Chart and should be participating in (the) Wake (game).
RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - Row80Critic - 10-15-2024
(10-15-2024, 03:03 PM)BobK Wrote: Actually possible this week for Brown
Say more stuff about this. Pretty please. :)
RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - BobK - 10-15-2024
I watched the press conference. Which ended too soon when something happened
RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - skip75 - 10-15-2024
(10-15-2024, 07:14 AM)lex24 Wrote:(10-13-2024, 10:48 AM)Row80Critic Wrote: This team can't improve without better QB play. That's not the only problem, of course, but watching Oregon and OSU last night really drove home home the difference a QB can make. Sure, both teams are better overall, but it would have been a lop-sided game if either team had a Stanford's level of QB play. Stanford needs to test out Brown asap to see if he's really the QB they hope he is...
Maybe Dillon Gabriel will transfer to Stanford. I think he’s eligible for an 8th year….
I got a good laugh out of this line.
And then I read that Cam Rising might actually be eligible for an 8th year following his season-ending injury.
RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - Jamesy - 10-18-2024
(10-15-2024, 03:03 PM)BobK Wrote: Actually possible this week for Brown
BobK, I bow to you and your amazing sources. Better than mine.
RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - BobK - 10-18-2024
Not even a close second to you Jamesy
So did I misread Taylor’s optimism? Or did I get overly excited ? And now that a see Daniels a team captain for the game
I’m guessing no Brown ?
RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - 82lsju - 10-18-2024
(10-18-2024, 07:39 AM)BobK Wrote: Not even a close second to you Jamesy
So did I misread Taylor’s optimism? Or did I get overly excited ? And now that a see Daniels a team captain for the game
I’m guessing no Brown ?
I listened to the recording of the press conference and while TT was optimistic my take was no Brown this week but maybe next week (vs Wake Forest)
RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - MV72018 - 10-18-2024
(10-15-2024, 05:29 PM)BobK Wrote: I watched the press conference. Which ended too soon when something happened
Let me guess: TT actually gave a substantive answer to a reporter's probing question.
Then Muir immediately ended it with a look of apprehension on his face.
RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - Jamesy - 10-18-2024
(10-18-2024, 07:39 AM)BobK Wrote: Not even a close second to you Jamesy
So did I misread Taylor’s optimism? Or did I get overly excited ? And now that a see Daniels a team captain for the game
I’m guessing no Brown ?
I'm hearing that you are more likely to be right than I was earlier this week.
RE: When is Elijah Brown back? - gailtate - 10-18-2024
Whenever it is that Brown returns to action, I just hope to hell he has some semblance of a jackrabbit scramblin'
gene when it comes running for his life. Evidence thus far suggests the Kid's gonna be under onerous pressure way beyond expectations. I'm talking about opponents' schemes. Stanford thoroughly, utterly sucks at this moment and every team that lines up from here on will be more than justified to believe "Hey, we can smoke these guys!"