Vecchio - Printable Version
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Re: Vecchio - JohnR34231 - 02-07-2014
You have to admit while there have been a number of walkons that have had significant playing time at Stanford, the odds are against it.
Is going to an Ivy League school and playing better than coming to Stanford and riding the pines? That's a personal decision and judgment.
I do think it is unfortunate if his parents are forcing him to do something he doesn't want to.
Re: Vecchio - dabomb1227 - 02-07-2014
(02-07-2014, 01:12 AM)JPRI link Wrote:I do think it is unfortunate if his parents are forcing him to do something he doesn't want to.
This is the key to me. I do not think he could make a wrong decision, but I should have been his decision to make
Re: Vecchio - FarmBoy - 02-07-2014
I don't see this as a clear story of "parents are forcing child down undesired path." At least, not based on the linked story. It sounds more like a situation where there was no clear winner and the parents are giving their best counsel and the child has a different preference (perhaps in part based on the dream of playing D1 ball that may not be a viable option given his abilities). It doesn't sound like they're saying, "no you can't go to Stanford." The story makes it sound like Vecchio is compromising his personal desires to the counsel his parents have provided.
My kids aren't 18, but this happens all the time when my wife and I tell our kids a decision is theirs to make. But we still provide them with the pros and cons of the choices at hand, as well as an indication of what we think is the best decision. For example, my son is tired of basketball and wants to quit before the season is over. We've told him the choice is his but that the right thing to do is to see his commitments through the end and that we would be less likely to sign him up for activities in the future. He has chosen to grudgingly go to basketball until the season's over. He's not happy, but he knows he's doing the "right" thing.
Re: Vecchio - Langdude - 02-07-2014
I am surprised that the economics of the situation have not yet been mentioned. Has anyone considered that this might have been greatly influenced by the ability to afford Penn vs. Stanford? I am sure that some of us on this board have a more unfettered choice palette because of our income, but there are others of us that would have a harder time sending our kids to Stanford if admitted (short of going into some significant debt). I came from a working class family, but was lucky to get scholarships, and I worked throughout college, and this was when Stanford cost much less (even adjusted for inflation) than it does now.
All that to say that I agree with those who suggest that it should have been (primarily) Vecchio's choice, especially if he was willing to shoulder the student loans himself. But since he was not getting a fb schollie here, don't you think that many of those Vecchio family kitchen conversations were about their ability to pay for Stanford vs. Penn? Though I know Ivy schools do not have athletic scholarships, they generally give academic ones to highly-recruited athletes, so Penn might be better for the family's financial situation.
Just fodder for discussion...
-m.
Re: Vecchio - jeboody - 02-07-2014
that article made a brief mention that as a preferred walk-on he would get financial assistance. am i mistaken here or read something wrong? it also didn't mention how much assistance he would get
Re: Vecchio - FarmBoy - 02-07-2014
And how much financial aid to Ivy League football players get? I know they've got some work arounds for the rule against athletic scholarship. Of course, if his family makes less than $100K, then he doesn't pay for any tuition at Stanford.
Nothing in the article hinted at finances, but you never know, since people don't like to discuss money openly.
Re: Vecchio - BostonCard - 02-07-2014
I did get a bit of the undercurrent of financial stress, especially from the dad's comments, which suggested that he was worried that if Vecchio didn't play football the family would be screwed financially.
That's unfortunate, because if the family made less than $60,000 a year they wouldn't have to pay anything based on basic Stanford financial aid, whereas if the family made less than $100,000 a year, they wouldn't have to pay tuition.
http://www.stanford.edu/dept/finaid/undergrad/how/parent.html
That's independent of whether Vecchio makes the team or not.
BC
A preferred walk on.... - Mick - 02-07-2014
(02-07-2014, 12:20 PM)jeboody link Wrote:that article made a brief mention that as a preferred walk-on he would get financial assistance. am i mistaken here or read something wrong? it also didn't mention how much assistance he would get
Is someone recruited by the coaching staff who has expressed a desire for that individual to play for the team, but for whom there is no scholarship. Those individuals have the same right to financial assistance at Stanford as do all other students (which is substantial).
A non-preferred walk-on would be a student who shows up at tryouts who had not previously been on the football staff's radar.
Re: Vecchio - terry - 02-07-2014
(02-07-2014, 12:20 PM)jeboody link Wrote:that article made a brief mention that as a preferred walk-on he would get financial assistance. am i mistaken here or read something wrong? it also didn't mention how much assistance he would get
Walk-ons can't get financial aid that is tied to "preferred walk-on" status. If the financial aid is related in any way to status as a football player, then it's deemed to be an athletic scholarship, and the player counts as a scholarship player.
Walk-ons are eligible for regular non-athletic financial aid. At Stanford, financial aid is exclusively need-based, and it's pretty generous.
It's my understanding that the Ivies don't give athletics-related financial aid, and that their athletes may receive only regular non-athletic financial aid. But I don't know how that works in practice or whether the Ivy schools game the system.
I doubt that Vecchio would have seen much cost difference between Stanford and Penn. He would have been eligible to apply for regular financial aid at both schools, and I think Stanford's financial aid policies are at least as generous as Penn's.
Re: Vecchio - Mick - 02-07-2014
(02-07-2014, 12:38 PM)terry link Wrote:It's my understanding that the Ivies don't give football-related financial aid, and that their athletes may receive only regular non-athletic financial aid. But I don't know how that works in practice or whether the Ivy schools game the system.
Ivies don't game the system. I wish they did... :P :-[
Re: Vecchio - 82 Card - 02-08-2014
I don't know what Penn does nowadays. Back in my day (late 70's), the Penn financial aid office kept track of athletic status. While I was sitting for an extended time at a financial aid officer's desk waiting to find out that I would be getting a substantial upgrade to my financial aid package due to the generosity of a recently deceased alum, I saw a series of slips delivered to the desk with the annotations "Athletic 1" and "Athletic 2". Seemed odd given that there were no athletic scholarships. Some time later, I asked a dean about that. The story was that athletic classification affected the type of financial aid (i.e. mix of grant, loan and work-study). I wasn't in a position to inquire too closely, given that I had my own financial aid more than doubled and converted to all grant because of academic performance, something that officially also did not happen.
Since I don't know the player in OC, I have no idea whether Stanford or Penn would be a better school for him. Penn is a much better place to go to school than some folks here seem to think. Yes, at times the weather is fierce. It can be bitter cold and windy in February. I remember slowly working my way between the high rise dorms leaning into the wind at almost a 45 degree angle. I became quite expert at one-handed umbrella handling in swirling wind. But most of the time the weather is not like that. Philadelphia is a great city for walking around. As much as I enjoyed Stanford, I preferred the urban environment of Philadelphia to the isolation of 8,400 acres. Of course, that may just be because undergraduate is more fun than law school, wherever you are.
Re: Vecchio - BostonCard - 02-08-2014
I didn't find many posts on the board suggesting that Penn was a bad place to go to school. The worst we saw was people argue that the weather wasn't very good. As with any place, it has its benefits and drawbacks vis-a-vis any other place (such as Stanford). Since this is a sample that skews towards Stanford alums and sympathizers, you will get a lot of people saying that they'd come to Stanford because of [weather, academics, etc.], but that is a very personal decision. Penn is an excellent school; my best friend from high school went there and was happy and is now very successful. I interviewed there for medical school, and was quite impressed, though I did not get in. I would be thrilled if my kids got into either school; gotta start taking notes from Mick.
BC
Musical genius and getting into a great university - Mick - 02-08-2014
(02-08-2014, 01:35 AM)Boston Card link Wrote:I didn't find many posts on the board suggesting that Penn was a bad place to go to school. The worst we saw was people argue that the weather wasn't very good. As with any place, it has its benefits and drawbacks vis-a-vis any other place (such as Stanford). Since this is a sample that skews towards Stanford alums and sympathizers, you will get a lot of people saying that they'd come to Stanford because of [weather, academics, etc.], but that is a very personal decision. Penn is an excellent school; my best friend from high school went there and was happy and is now very successful. I interviewed there for medical school, and was quite impressed, though I did not get in. I would be thrilled if my kids got into either school; gotta start taking notes from Mick.
BC
Some of you may have heard the anecdote about the mother of a boy taking piano lessons. She asked the teacher how to know if the boy was going to be a musical prodigy, clearly desiring such an offspring. The music teacher replies "It depends on how you nag him." She says "What do you mean?" He says, "If you nag him to practice, he's unlikely to be a prodigy. If you nag him to stop practicing, then you may have a prodigy."
Same was true for my youngest. At least twice a week during the school year, Mrs. Mick would be on him at one or two in the morning to knock off the studying and homework. It usually turned into a "discussion." He is driven in a way that I don't really fathom. Probably why I ended up at SCU... :D.
BTW, if any of you have junior high or high school kids and are curious about preparing your child for the college admissions process, I'm happy to share our experiences (and my perspectives on other students who were admitted or not), just drop me a line in my in-box.
Hey, Mick. TOTAL change of subject - Redrum - 02-08-2014
When I last focused, you were considering a strategic relocation, weighing career options and out-of-CA locations. What came out of that process? Truck packed for WA? You decide, despite my warnings, to try out Houston? Inquiring minds want to know.
Re: Hey, Mick. TOTAL change of subject - Mick - 02-09-2014
(02-08-2014, 03:14 PM)Redrum link Wrote:When I last focused, you were considering a strategic relocation, weighing career options and out-of-CA locations. What came out of that process? Truck packed for WA? You decide, despite my warnings, to try out Houston? Inquiring minds want to know.
Right, I never really answered that. Well, basically, it's this: for years, I made first accountants and then lawyers rich. I ran sales and marketing for two large law firms. At the time I asked about the Pacific Northwest and Houston, which was the locales of two large law firms that I was considering. Along about that time, I had two heart-to-heart talks; one with my wife, in which Mrs. Mick indicated an extreme desire to stay in the SF Bay Area if at all possible. Second heart to heart talk was with myself in which I considered the desireability of making yet another group of attorneys rich.
Right about that time, I had an interesting job consulting with a midsized public tech company that wanted to fire its NYC-based law firm. I walked the GC through the process with all the minefields, and at the end, he advised me to go into business for myself working for clients seeking to optimize their relationships with their law firms and reduce their overall legal fee burden.
So I did. I stayed in the Bay Area. When my youngest departs for Princeton, Mrs. Mick and I will most likely move to the Aptos/Seascape/Rio Del Mar/Capitola area.
Re: Vecchio - Hulk01 - 02-10-2014
Stanford's weather and campus locked the deal for me. The Penn campus is among the homeliest of at least 60 that I've visited. Only Iowa State looked worse.
Re: Hey, Mick. TOTAL change of subject - stupac2 - 02-10-2014
(02-09-2014, 08:14 PM)Mick link Wrote:So I did. I stayed in the Bay Area. When my youngest departs for Princeton, Mrs. Mick and I will most likely move to the Aptos/Seascape/Rio Del Mar/Capitola area.
When you're down there, check out Sante Adairius Rustic Ales, and while you're there get some Aptos St. BBQ. It's a match made in heaven.
Re: Hey, Mick. TOTAL change of subject - Mick - 02-10-2014
(02-10-2014, 10:08 AM)stupac2 link Wrote:[quote author=Mick link=topic=9521.msg83603#msg83603 date=1392002052]So I did. I stayed in the Bay Area. When my youngest departs for Princeton, Mrs. Mick and I will most likely move to the Aptos/Seascape/Rio Del Mar/Capitola area.
When you're down there, check out Sante Adairius Rustic Ales, and while you're there get some Aptos St. BBQ. It's a match made in heaven.
[/quote]
Throw in a good coffee shop and a good bakery and you're in my will... :D
Re: Vecchio - BostonCard - 02-10-2014
Santa Cruz has some good coffee shops. My local barista is from there, so I can ask him.
Seascape is beautiful. When my kids were younger we used to go on a yearly trip in the late summer. Fall would be better, but school and such. We've been talking about going back, since it's a good place if you have a two year old and don't want to take a long trip or deal with airports and such.
BC
Re: Vecchio - yvonne - 02-10-2014
I have good friends in Aptos and Rio del Mar. They seem like good communities. Rio del Mar is older and more established. It's got older trees/landscaping; however much of the area is on steep hills.