Outside Topic 2022 Giants thread - Printable Version
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RE: 2022 Giants thread - DC 86 - 05-20-2022
(05-20-2022, 04:48 AM)Phogge Wrote: Youngest to 100 homers.
Mel Ott is still the youngest to hit 100 home runs, but Tony C holds the record for most home runs by a teenager.
(05-20-2022, 06:56 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The Giants would make anyone but Harrison available to Nationals if they were serious about a trade for Soto. No way in hell do you trade Harrison. If not getting him is a deal breaker for Nationals, then you say no if you are the Giants.
The Red Sox got three prospects - all position players - for Mookie Betts, who is a better all around player than Soto. Soto may be a better hitter, but Betts is a far superior defensive player with a better arm and more speed.
Only Alex Verdugo was sort of a can't miss prospect with MLB experience of the three prospects the Red Sox got, and he is the only one who has made it to the Red Sox three years after the trade.
1. Betts had one year left on his contract (and had turned down Boton's most aggressive extension offer) when he was traded. Soto has three years left of team control, doesn't become a free agent until the 2025 season, so there is no comparison at all. You don't trade players, you trade contracts, so you're comparing apples and oranges. Add in the fact that Soto is 23 and that Betts was 27 and the comparison is even more inappropriate.
2. Betts is the more well-rounded player, but all tools aren't equal, and Soto's hitting makes him the more valuable player. Not to mention that Soto's prime years are still ahead.
3. No prospect is a deal breaker, especially a pitcher. Harrison is an excellent prospect, love his potential. He turns 21 this season and has made six starts in high-A. An optimistic view is that he can avoid an arm injury (check out the rate at which hard throwing prospects suffer elbow or shouldier injuries) and maybe make his MLB debut in two years when he's 23, and hopefully not struggle too much when he first comes up, as most pitchers do. Well, Soto is 23 now and he's already put up a 297/429/543 (!!!) line in over 2,000 plate appearances.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - OutsiderFan - 05-20-2022
Does anyone really think the Giants are going to pay what the Nationals won't, for Soto?
The team control is nice and all, but you aren't giving up all of your best prospects for a guy you will lose in three years. I don't see the Giants wanting to part with the prospects or pay the money Soto might command.
If you want to sign a top of market Free Agent, sign Aaron Judge without giving up any prospects. Judge is a right handed power hitter the Giants haven't had since, what, Matt Williams?
RE: 2022 Giants thread - BobK - 05-20-2022
Or maybe Jeff Kent 37 HRs in 2002 for instance
RE: 2022 Giants thread - DC 86 - 05-20-2022
(05-20-2022, 10:00 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Does anyone really think the Giants are going to pay what the Nationals won't, for Soto?
The team control is nice and all, but you aren't giving up all of your best prospects for a guy you will lose in three years. I don't see the Giants wanting to part with the prospects or pay the money Soto might command.
If you want to sign a top of market Free Agent, sign Aaron Judge without giving up any prospects. Judge is a right handed power hitter the Giants haven't had since, what, Matt Williams?
Of course I don't see the Giants trading for Soto, partly given that they are unlikely to pay for an extension as you mentioned, and partly because I don't think they have the necessary assets. It was just an intellectual exercise regarding prospect cost.
Having said that, I see trading for/extending Soto as far more likely than signing Judge. Great player but will play next season at age 31, injury history, turned down a seven year extension - just doesn't fit the Giants style at all. SF did offer a long term deal to Bryce Harper who was the same age at the time as Soto's age when his extension would kick in. They've never been involved in long term deals for players with Judge's profile.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - BostonCard - 05-20-2022
If you guys are tired of the analytics induced snooze fest that MLB has become, check out this guy:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/japanese-baseball-the-most-unconventional-manager-left-in-baseball-isin-japan-tsuyoshi-shinjo-mets-11653055074
BC
RE: 2022 Giants thread - Mick - 05-20-2022
(05-20-2022, 07:14 PM)BostonCard Wrote: If you guys are tired of the analytics induced snooze fest that MLB has become, check out this guy:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/japanese-baseball-the-most-unconventional-manager-left-in-baseball-isin-japan-tsuyoshi-shinjo-mets-11653055074
BC
I remember Shinjo. Hit .238 for the Giants one year.
lex24 - lex24 - 05-21-2022
(05-20-2022, 10:44 PM)Mick Wrote:(05-20-2022, 07:14 PM)BostonCard Wrote: If you guys are tired of the analytics induced snooze fest that MLB has become, check out this guy:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/japanese-baseball-the-most-unconventional-manager-left-in-baseball-isin-japan-tsuyoshi-shinjo-mets-11653055074
BC
I remember Shinjo. Hit .238 for the Giants one year.
Blocked by paywall.
Shinjo is, I believe, the last player the Giants have signed from the Pacific Rim. Something that I find hard to understand given the Giants history- Masanori Murakami (spelling) was the first Japanese player in the major leagues - and a region that should be welcoming to and comfortable for Pacific Rim players. To me it’s been an organizational failure for awhile.
Shinjo had a ton of flair. Could run. Excellent outfielder. Didn’t hit much.
RE: lex24 - Giants - 05-21-2022
(05-21-2022, 08:32 AM)lex24 Wrote:(05-20-2022, 10:44 PM)Mick Wrote:(05-20-2022, 07:14 PM)BostonCard Wrote: If you guys are tired of the analytics induced snooze fest that MLB has become, check out this guy:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/japanese-baseball-the-most-unconventional-manager-left-in-baseball-isin-japan-tsuyoshi-shinjo-mets-11653055074
BC
I remember Shinjo. Hit .238 for the Giants one year.
Blocked by paywall.
Shinjo is, I believe, the last player the Giants have signed from the Pacific Rim. Something that I find hard to understand given the Giants history- Masanori Murakami (spelling) was the first Japanese player in the major leagues - and a region that should be welcoming to and comfortable for Pacific Rim players. To me it’s been an organizational failure for awhile.
Shinjo had a ton of flair. Could run. Excellent outfielder. Didn’t hit much.
The last player SF signed directly from Japan (2013) who played for the Giants is Kensuke Tanaka. Also, SF signed a player from Taiwan to a minor league deal last off-season.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - Phogge - 05-21-2022
Latest on Kyle Harrison. 7 starts, 29ip, 19 hits, 10 BB, 59 K. Hopefully we'll see him in a MLB uniform in '24. Not a nationals uni Lex.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - Giants - 05-21-2022
Trading Harrison and/or Luciano would be a disaster for the Giants. They will be a significant part of the core of the next generation (along with Soto, after he signs with the Giants as a free agent in ‘25). :)
RE: 2022 Giants thread - lex24 - 05-21-2022
(05-21-2022, 09:17 AM)Giants Wrote: Trading Harrison and/or Luciano would be a disaster for the Giants. They will be a significant part of the core of the next generation (along with Soto, after he signs with the Giants as a free agent in ‘25). :)
Not if they get 12 years of Juan Soto in return. Luciano may be an MLB player someday. May be a regular. May be a star. Same with Harrison. Then again, they may not. Prospects are just that. Ask the Yankees about Jaba Chamberlain (whom allegedly they would not give up as part of a package for a 24 year old Miguel Cabrera)
Next gen is great. But this team is winning now. And it’s core is not young. Add Soto to the lineup you immediately become a team that can challenge for the whole enchilada. A guy like that makes the hitters around him better. Ask Jeff Kent….
Soto is already the best offensive player in the game. And he will get better. He is going to be (if he isn’t already) the Barry Bonds of his era. If you are afraid to deal prospects for that - get another job.
And he is probably not going to be with the Nats till FA. If he’s on the block ( more likely next year) the Giants should pursue him HARD. They have the money and perhaps the prospects to be in the mix. Plus he seems to like SF. As he will be under team control you make the Tatis/Wander Franco move.
2025 is a lifetime away. The Giants are not Baltimore. They are poised to win NOW. Soto would be an enormous get. He’d also put butts in seats. Course, you only do it if you know you can lock him up for at least 10 years. 12 and $400,000,000 ought to do it. They have the money. And it would not their hands.
Guarantee you the Dodgers will go after him hard. I bet the Padres will as well.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - DC 86 - 05-21-2022
(05-21-2022, 09:33 AM)lex24 Wrote: And he is probably not going to be with the Nats till FA. If he’s on the block ( more likely next year) the Giants should pursue him HARD. They have the money and perhaps the prospects to be in the mix. Plus he seems to like SF. As he will be under team control you make the Tatis/Wander Franco move.
2025 is a lifetime away. The Giants are not Baltimore. They are poised to win NOW. Soto would be an enormous get. He’d also put butts in seats. Course, you only do it if you know you can lock him up for at least 10 years. 12 and $400,000,000 ought to do it. They have the money. And it would not their hands.
Guarantee you the Dodgers will go after him hard. I bet the Padres will as well.
I strongly agree that it's the sort of move that SF should make, and the notion of being afraid to trade prospects makes no sense to me. Marco Luciano, who is a top-20 prospect, has a less than ~0.1% chance of ever being as good as Juan Soto. That's not hyperbole or a slam on Luciano, who projects to be a very good MLB player, it's just historical reality. Luciano is in high-A. At the exact age that Luciano is now Soto had already played two complete MLB seasons and put up 292/406/517 and 282/401/548 lines. The next season (meaning parallel to Luciano this season) he hit 351/490/695 in the shortened Covid season.
I do disagree about the feasibility of it, though. The Giants don't have the prospect value to get a deal done, and I assume the Nationals will also want young, cost controlled MLB-proven or MLB-ready players, of which SF has none.
Dodgers and Padres make sense but the team to look out for is the Mets, there's no limit to what Steve Cohen would do to acquire Soto. He didn't wait a year for Lindor to become a free agent. Granted Washington would be averse to trading within the division, but a Mets offer could be too strong to refuse. In any case, it's impossible to imagine the Giants winning a bidding war, even in the unlikely event that they entered into one.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - old spanish trail - 05-21-2022
Aside from one nice hit in Col, Longoria's bat looks weak, old and slow. Should have stayed down and played 7 or 10 games.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - Phogge - 05-21-2022
Lex, Farhan is not Eddie D.
Ike had a plan. Monty didn’t like it, DeGaulle certainly didn’t like it and neither did Patton. But he kept everyone together, didn’t panic and he won the war (with the greatest citizen army in history).
Farhan has a plan. Soto isn’t in it.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - DC 86 - 05-21-2022
(05-21-2022, 07:45 PM)Phogge Wrote: Lex, Farhan is not Eddie D.
Ike had a plan. Monty didn’t like it, DeGaulle certainly didn’t like it and neither did Patton. But he kept everyone together, didn’t panic and he won the war (with the greatest citizen army in history).
Farhan has a plan. Soto isn’t in it.
A better analogy would be Ike having to come up with a backup plan because the leaders of the Allied powers told him to fight the war with only half the resources and men as the Axis powers, because the priority was to save money.
When Farhan was with the Dodgers he had a different plan for some reason.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - Phogge - 05-21-2022
If you worked in Hollywood for a stretch over the years you get what the Dodgers are doing. Like MGM in the Thirties and Forties. Warners, Paramount and Fox made some good pictures but the roaring Lion was king. In their minds the Dodger brain trust is to big to fail.
Farhan is building hie little studio in the City. Like Bronco Billy in Niles he will bring home some winners but not every year.
lex24 - lex24 - 05-22-2022
(05-21-2022, 10:33 PM)Phogge Wrote: If you worked in Hollywood for a stretch over the years you get what the Dodgers are doing. Like MGM in the Thirties and Forties. Warners, Paramount and Fox made some good pictures but the roaring Lion was king. In their minds the Dodger brain trust is to big to fail.
Farhan is building hie little studio in the City. Like Bronco Billy in Niles he will bring home some winners but not every year.
Little studio? The Giants are valued very near the Dodgers. They play in a jewel of a stadium that they own free and clear with a very large loyal and national fan base. They are Baseball Royalty (Yankees, Dodgers, Giants, Red Sox, Cubs, Cardinals )
The only thing that may hold back Zaidi from competing with the Dodgers every year is cheap ownership. For reasons I simply do not understand, ownership doesn’t get called out for its up unwillingness to spend.
(05-21-2022, 04:44 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: Aside from one nice hit in Col, Longoria's bat looks weak, old and slow. Should have stayed down and played 7 or 10 games.
Agreed. But apparently he didn’t want to. He’s a streaky guy. I think he will get it going.
RE: 2022 Giants thread - BobK - 05-22-2022
Lex not called out mostly due to politics.
Really hard to be unhappy about the Giants these days
RE: 2022 Giants thread - lex24 - 05-22-2022
(05-22-2022, 08:31 AM)BobK Wrote: Lex not called out mostly due to politics.
Really hard to be unhappy about the Giants these days
Not sure what you mean by “not called out mostly due to politics “. Charles Johnson has been called out, numerous times, for his personal political contributions. (His son Greg is now the lead members of the ownership group) Which are irrelevant as his views (fortunately) do not in anyway trickle down to the organization.
I am very happy with the Giants. But I can always hope for more. :).
RE: 2022 Giants thread - Giants - 05-22-2022
(05-22-2022, 08:31 AM)BobK Wrote: Lex not called out mostly due to politics.
Really hard to be unhappy about the Giants these days
Current ownership is responsible for the only World Series championships in the SF-era of the franchise. How can one be unhappy about that?
Overall, I have no problem with how the Giants function.