WBB: Stanford 63 Cal 83 - Printable Version
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: WBB: Stanford 63 Cal 83 (/thread-25347.html)
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: WBB: Stanford 63 Cal 83 (/thread-25347.html)
76lsjumb - 76lsjumb - 12-13-2024
(12-13-2024, 09:27 PM)M T Wrote: It isn't so much the 3pt shooting (we are at 54%, they are at 44%), it is the 15 fewer shots, leading to 10 fewer goals.You know you’re watching a not very good team when all the fans ever do is complain about the refs… :-)
It seems unlikely, but if the refs start calling the fouls, this game could get a lot closer sooner.
RE: WBB: Stanford @ Cal Friday 7pm; preview and game thread - M T - 12-13-2024
By the way, the effect of the white floor is to cause the players to be backlit. Very contrasty, pretty difficult to see any details of the players, especially when they are in dark uniforms.
RE: WBB: Stanford @ Cal Friday 7pm; preview and game thread - 81alum - 12-13-2024
Cal is 15-33 from three point range. Our three point defense has been poor all season. At this point 45 of Cal's 70 points is from three point range.
RE: WBB: Stanford @ Cal Friday 7pm; preview and game thread - Card10Fan - 12-13-2024
Most of this game it's felt like we are just passing the ball around in the half court to run offense with no real urgency to score, just simply to run offense. Who's gonna be aggressive to score and go get a bucket. I say start Clardy and play her more.
Also, whatever the final margin is, someone will need to lookup the largest margin of defeat Coach Vanderveer EVER had to Cal. This game could end up being worse than that and its Kate Paye's first rivalry game as head coach. Not good.
RE: WBB: Stanford @ Cal Friday 7pm; preview and game thread - crackpot - 12-13-2024
(12-13-2024, 09:35 PM)M T Wrote: By the way, the effect of the white floor is to cause the players to be backlit. Very contrasty, pretty difficult to see any details of the players, especially when they are in dark uniforms.
I had to change the color settings on the TV b/c 2/3 of my household was getting nauseated (and that was just at tip-off).
RE: 76lsjumb - M T - 12-13-2024
(12-13-2024, 09:34 PM)76lsjumb Wrote:Did you even bother looking at the details I posted of the refs calls and non-calls in the LSU game?(12-13-2024, 09:27 PM)M T Wrote: It isn't so much the 3pt shooting (we are at 54%, they are at 44%), it is the 15 fewer shots, leading to 10 fewer goals.You know you’re watching a not very good team when all the fans ever do is complain about the refs… :-)
It seems unlikely, but if the refs start calling the fouls, this game could get a lot closer sooner.
The refs control the game whether it is a top-2 match up or a game between rivals or whatever.
Of course, if someone would rather complain about the team and the fans, that will be what they do.
76lsjumb - 76lsjumb - 12-13-2024
(12-13-2024, 09:41 PM)crackpot Wrote:(12-13-2024, 09:35 PM)M T Wrote: By the way, the effect of the white floor is to cause the players to be backlit. Very contrasty, pretty difficult to see any details of the players, especially when they are in dark uniforms.
I had to change the color settings on the TV b/c 2/3 of my household was getting nauseated (and that was just at tip-off).
I’m only looking at LiveStats and I’m getting nauseated. I don’t think it’s the color settings.
RE: WBB: Stanford @ Cal Friday 7pm; preview and game thread - 81alum - 12-13-2024
Largest margin of victory by Cal in the history of the series. Most made threes by Cal in all of its history. A frustrating defense that completely took our offense out of sync.
Demetre had a good game.
We have a lot of work to do.
Next up: UTSA on Monday, in a "recovery" game. To close out the weakest non-conference lineup at Maples in modern history. Then Ohio State at Chase on Friday. The marquee preseason game is away from Maples. I guess that one could be an opportunity to get the season back on track, if there are any fans there.
RE: WBB: Stanford @ Cal Friday 7pm; preview and game thread - mbdude - 12-13-2024
20 pts is largest margin
18 3ptrs for cal, 14 2 ptrs
76lsjumb - 76lsjumb - 12-13-2024
(12-13-2024, 09:45 PM)M T Wrote:(12-13-2024, 09:34 PM)76lsjumb Wrote:Did you even bother looking at the details I posted of the refs calls and non-calls in the LSU game?(12-13-2024, 09:27 PM)M T Wrote: It isn't so much the 3pt shooting (we are at 54%, they are at 44%), it is the 15 fewer shots, leading to 10 fewer goals.You know you’re watching a not very good team when all the fans ever do is complain about the refs… :-)
It seems unlikely, but if the refs start calling the fouls, this game could get a lot closer sooner.
The refs control the game whether it is a top-2 match up or a game between rivals or whatever.
Of course, if someone would rather complain about the team and the fans, that will be what they do.
I did, actually. My take on the reffing in that game was that it wasn’t very good… but that it was pretty bad for both sides. They got the technical, not us. And IIRC, we had more free throws than they did (not counting overtime, when we were fouling on purpose). The refs didn’t decide that game. Our game management and inability to run a decent inbounds play did. That, and a defense that decided to let one of their players shoot without any guarding… apparently kind of like what we were doing tonight.
By the way, I agree entirely with your take on the announcers for yesterday’s VBalll match. I couldn’t believe the short shrift they gave to us after the win.
RE: WBB: Stanford @ Cal Friday 7pm; preview and game thread - M T - 12-13-2024
(12-13-2024, 09:40 PM)Card10Fan Wrote: Also, whatever the final margin is, someone will need to lookup the largest margin of defeat Coach Vanderveer EVER had to Cal. This game could end up being worse than that and its Kate Paye's first rivalry game as head coach. Not good.
Yep, this is the first rivalry game. Too bad it didn't turn out as good a game as the first game against a top-5 opponent, but that was a whole 8 days ago.
I wouldn't be searching for a new coach just yet, even if that's been a Cardboard tradition.
RE: WBB: Stanford 63 Cal 83 - MV72018 - 12-13-2024
A few troubling stats from tonight's game:
Stanford: 9 assists, 12 turnovers.
Cal: 20 assists, 9 turnovers.
Stanford: field goal percentage of 33.9%
Cal: field goal percentage of 44.4%
Breaking those field goal attempts down:
Stanford was 9 for 17 on three-point shots (52.9%)
Cal was 18 for 40 (!!!) on three-point shots (45%)
BUT
Stanford was only 11 for 42 on two-point shots (for an anemic 26.2%)
Cal was 14 for 32 on two-point shots (for a much better 43.8%)
Cal shot only 4 foul shots the whole game; Stanford shot 15.
These stats suggest to me that Stanford was not playing team basketball tonight (Cal did much better at that); had serious problems scoring inside the three-point line; was not taking very good care of the ball; and was not playing aggressive, disruptive D on the perimeter, otherwise Cal would have shot more than 4 free throws and hit less than 18 treys. Agara seems to be the only player on the starting team that, by using her excellent crossover dribble, can take it to the hoop from 15-20 feet out and finish. I fear that Cal may have exposed several of Stanford's systemic weaknesses tonight. Stanford is still lacking productive point guard play. From what I've seen, this is likely to change next year. I don't get the impression that Stanford has an identity yet this year, meaning a characteristic style of play that is well honed and productive.
RE: WBB: Stanford 63 Cal 83 - liveoak - 12-13-2024
Here's what I told my daughter about the game. Cal came out in an aggressive player to player defense that intimidated us from shooting 3s. Oniyeh's shot-blocking ability seemed to cause Nunu problems in the post and her shooting was off all night. We did not seem ready for the game - we were a step slow all night against an aggressive, physical team and second to every 50-50 ball. That can all be fixed with effort. The part that bothers me is that we played terrible defense - some of the worst I've seen from Stanford. I know that defense is partially effort...but that needs to be fixed.
Cal definitely got hot from 3 and it did look like one of those nights when we can't do anything and the other team shoots the lights out. Hoping for a better response on Monday...
RE: WBB: Stanford 63 Cal 83 - JohnR34231 - 12-14-2024
(12-13-2024, 11:37 PM)liveoak Wrote: Here's what I told my daughter about the game. Cal came out in an aggressive player to player defense that intimidated us from shooting 3s. Oniyeh's shot-blocking ability seemed to cause Nunu problems in the post and her shooting was off all night. We did not seem ready for the game - we were a step slow all night against an aggressive, physical team and second to every 50-50 ball. That can all be fixed with effort. The part that bothers me is that we played terrible defense - some of the worst I've seen from Stanford. I know that defense is partially effort...but that needs to be fixed.
Cal definitely got hot from 3 and it did look like one of those nights when we can't do anything and the other team shoots the lights out. Hoping for a better response on Monday...
Yeah, hopefully that game was an outlier. A little discouraging when you come oh so close to beating a top 5 team and then turn around and get your butts kicked by a team not even in the top 25. Teams are perhaps learning that if you stop Nunu they don't have anyone else who can beat you. Anyway we will find out more when we play Ohio State.
RE: WBB: Stanford 63 Cal 83 - oldalum - 12-14-2024
searching for a modicum of solace, maybe our playing the game right at the end of finals week had an effect in terms of practice, preparation, conditioning, sleep? Cal had an actual dead week, with finals next week. (Of course we have played in March Madness just after finals, but the players' winter quarter class load presumably was much lighter)
Does Stanford still have a real dead week (my favorite week of the quarter)?
RE: WBB: Stanford 63 Cal 83 - jonnyss - 12-14-2024
lots of things went wrong, and cal played lights out.
that said, our strategy of doubling oniyeh in the post led to perhaps a dozen wide-open 3s (yes, they also made a few contested 3s). i would have liked to see kate try kennedy umeh in the post. she's a giant who won't get pushed around. in the 30 seconds she plays, she scores, she gets rebounds, she blocks shots. she has by far the highest points (33), rebounds (24), and blocks (5) per 40 min on the team (granted, it's against the opponent's subs). why not at least try her one-on-one on the oniyehs?
to me, brooke seems a great 3, not a post. she hardly even tries to defend someone like oniyeh. i'd be interested in seeing a lineup of jzaniyah, chloe, and elena as guards, brooke at the 3, nunu at the 4 and kennedy at the 5. (i don't think tess and courtney are giving us much).
RE: WBB: Stanford 63 Cal 83 - 81alum - 12-14-2024
One possibility that no one has mentioned is just that Cal is very good this year, and LSU may not be as good as their reputation predicts. That is, at least, part of the story.
One major problem for us is that we no longer have the forwards who can defend inside against larger, taller, equally talented players. Kate seemed to feel compelled to double in the paint, as was noted by johnnyss, despite the fact that Cal started the game with 3 42% three point shooters on the floor--and that was not even counting their forward Marta Suarez going 4/6 from three point range. Agara is an undersized post, Demetre is great on offense and sound enough on defense but does not have the athleticism to handle someone like Oniyeh one on one. We now are coming up against teams that can exploit this defensive weakness.
I agree that Umeh needs to get more minutes, although we have seen her defense and she also makes mistakes and is learning. Hopefully as the season progresses she will too and we will see a lot more of her.
Here is the presser:
https://storage.googleapis.com/stanford-prod/2024/12/14/z39qg19H2EmIArdqk6P2htG786PLYlwAapdjYMxs.m4a
Kate: "I think they wanted it more. We were out coached. We were out played....Credit to them."
"A very painful experience but hopefully one we can learn from." "Talana is working to get healthy and we hope she gets healthy soon."
"There are two great motivators. One is love, the other is pain. There is a lot of love and pain in our locker room right now."
Quite a lot was said about the level of experience on the Cal team vs. the youth of our team. And I agree that should be considered a factor. Demetre is perhaps our most experienced player and she kept her poise and performed well on offense. Agara is still in the first half of her sophomore season. Even an oldster like Harriel doesn't have that much game experience. And Cal had several grad students starting.
RE: WBB: Stanford 63 Cal 83 - 2006alum - 12-14-2024
(12-14-2024, 10:28 AM)81alum Wrote: One possibility that no one has mentioned is just that Cal is very good this year, and LSU may not be as good as their reputation predicts. That is, at least, part of the story.
One major problem for us is that we no longer have the forwards who can defend inside against larger, taller, equally talented players. Kate seemed to feel compelled to double in the paint, as was noted by johnnyss, despite the fact that Cal started the game with 3 42% three point shooters on the floor--and that was not even counting their forward Marta Suarez going 4/6 from three point range. Agara is an undersized post, Demetre is great on offense and sound enough on defense but does not have the athleticism to handle someone like Oniyeh one on one. We now are coming up against teams that can exploit this defensive weakness.
I agree that Umeh needs to get more minutes, although we have seen her defense and she also makes mistakes and is learning. Hopefully as the season progresses she will too and we will see a lot more of her.
Here is the presser:
https://storage.googleapis.com/stanford-prod/2024/12/14/z39qg19H2EmIArdqk6P2htG786PLYlwAapdjYMxs.m4a
Kate: "I think they wanted it more. We were out coached. We were out played....Credit to them."
"A very painful experience but hopefully one we can learn from." "Talana is working to get healthy and we hope she gets healthy soon."
"There are two great motivators. One is love, the other is pain. There is a lot of love and pain in our locker room right now."
Quite a lot was said about the level of experience on the Cal team vs. the youth of our team. And I agree that should be considered a factor. Demetre is perhaps our most experienced player and she kept her poise and performed well on offense. Agara is still in the first half of her sophomore season. Even an oldster like Harriel doesn't have that much game experience. And Cal had several grad students starting.
Thanks 81, as always, great insights. I was out last night and haven't seen the game yet, though I'm not sure I'm eager to. A few stray thoughts:
I totally agree about Umeh - I feel like I've been saying this all season. In the limited time I've seen her, she's looked much better than the minutes KP has given her. And she is the *only* true big on our team, so while I get that she's making mistakes, I honestly think the tradeoff is worth it. I don't think I've *ever* seen Umeh and Nunu on the floor together, and I'd love to see that just to see if Nunu would have more room to maneuver on offense and we wouldn't need to collapse on D and leave their outside shooters so open. I also agree re: Brooke. She's a W, through and through, but the only way she ends up at the 3 is if Bosgana plays the 4 (and she's even leaner and shorter than Brooke) or we play Umeh. So why not try it, especially on Monday, when the stakes are low?
I'm a little uncertain what I think about KP's comment that we're a young team. Our starting lineup when Lepolo can play is two seniors, two juniors (one a red-shirt, so this is her fourth year on campus), and a sophomore. Compare that to, say, the current starting lineups at Notre Dame (two seniors, a red-shirt junior, a sophomore, and a freshman), or UConn (two seniors, a sophomore, a redshirt freshman, and a true freshman). The only reason we're "young" is because our upperclassmen weren't starter material when they were underclassmen. But in terms of years of time at Stanford, this is not that young of a team. Or put to put it another way: is a team that will be graduating three of their top four scorers at the end of the season a young team? I wouldn't say so.
If anything worries me so far this season, it's that the flip side of "on any given night, anyone can be dangerous" is "one any given night, no one is dangerous." Other than Nunu, we do not have a player capable of taking over games. And she can only do so, as a 5, when we face either a small team, or a team with inexperienced post players. Otherwise, we will live and die by how often we take and make the treys, and even on a night where we shot over 50% from outside, we still lost by 20 points. And by the way: we remain the top 3 point shooting team in the country (42.8%), and we have EIGHT players averaging 40% or greater from outside (believe it or not, UConn does not have one player, even Bueckers, averaging 40% from three). So I think we really need to take more outside shots, and/or try Umeh at the 5. Otherwise, I'm not sure I see an offensive identity emerging for this team.
RE: WBB: Stanford 63 Cal 83 - crackpot - 12-14-2024
(12-13-2024, 11:37 PM)liveoak Wrote: Here's what I told my daughter about the game. Cal came out in an aggressive player to player defense that intimidated us from shooting 3s. Oniyeh's shot-blocking ability seemed to cause Nunu problems in the post and her shooting was off all night. We did not seem ready for the game - we were a step slow all night against an aggressive, physical team and second to every 50-50 ball. That can all be fixed with effort. The part that bothers me is that we played terrible defense - some of the worst I've seen from Stanford. I know that defense is partially effort...but that needs to be fixed.
Cal definitely got hot from 3 and it did look like one of those nights when we can't do anything and the other team shoots the lights out. Hoping for a better response on Monday...
With any talented Cal team, there's gonna be a night where they come out with their best game because they're tired of always losing to Stanford. I don't think we were pyschologically prepared for that, and certainly how to defend them.
Even though we started off terribly, it feels like the real turning point is around 4:14 in Q2 where Twidale pushes Brooke down and steps back to sink the unguarded 3. Bird and Kate were incensed, but perhaps--in retrospect--that would have been a good time to call a timeout.
RE: WBB: Stanford 63 Cal 83 - old spanish trail - 12-14-2024
(12-14-2024, 10:28 AM)81alum Wrote: One possibility that no one has mentioned is just that Cal is very good this year, and LSU may not be as good as their reputation predicts. That is, at least, part of the story.
One major problem for us is that we no longer have the forwards who can defend inside against larger, taller, equally talented players. Kate seemed to feel compelled to double in the paint, as was noted by johnnyss, despite the fact that Cal started the game with 3 42% three point shooters on the floor--and that was not even counting their forward Marta Suarez going 4/6 from three point range. Agara is an undersized post, Demetre is great on offense and sound enough on defense but does not have the athleticism to handle someone like Oniyeh one on one. We now are coming up against teams that can exploit this defensive weakness.
I agree that Umeh needs to get more minutes, although we have seen her defense and she also makes mistakes and is learning. Hopefully as the season progresses she will too and we will see a lot more of her.
Here is the presser:
https://storage.googleapis.com/stanford-prod/2024/12/14/z39qg19H2EmIArdqk6P2htG786PLYlwAapdjYMxs.m4a
Kate: "I think they wanted it more. We were out coached. We were out played....Credit to them."
"A very painful experience but hopefully one we can learn from." "Talana is working to get healthy and we hope she gets healthy soon."
"There are two great motivators. One is love, the other is pain. There is a lot of love and pain in our locker room right now."
Quite a lot was said about the level of experience on the Cal team vs. the youth of our team. And I agree that should be considered a factor. Demetre is perhaps our most experienced player and she kept her poise and performed well on offense. Agara is still in the first half of her sophomore season. Even an oldster like Harriel doesn't have that much game experience. And Cal had several grad students starting.
Agree totally with this whole post, 81. I also would like to see Umeh and Agara together with Demetre possibly the 3, and I hope we do soon.