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RE: WBB news - SkiBum80 - 05-19-2026

(05-19-2026, 07:20 AM)Hieronymus Wrote:  
(05-18-2026, 05:27 PM)Goose Wrote:  
(05-18-2026, 04:47 PM)qwerty49 Wrote:  David Shaw lived off Jim Harbaugh’s legacy for pretty long, until he ran out of magic inspiration. Kate looks to be in the same position w/r/t Tara.
Really? While I definitely take issue with the idea that David Shaw "lived off Jim Harbaugh's legacy" even if one accepts that argument Shaw was successful for 7 (at a minimum) of his 12 seasons and is the winningest coach in program history. Kate obviously has had no similar success in her two years as head coach at Stanford. Her situation is nothing at all like David Shaw.

Yeah this is pretty unfair to Shaw. I was firmly in the camp that Shaw stuck around 2-3 years too long as the decline became obvious. But at the same time, you can’t deny he was massively successful - and beyond just living off Harbaugh’s legacy. As noted, KP so far has no successes to claim in contrast. Next year is unlikely to change that fact, and I hope we don’t witness a year 4.

This is similar to how I see it. Harbaugh made the incredible, miraculous turnaround. But it was by no means guaranteed to be sustained. Shaw picked up that ball and carried it wildly successfully for years. Only at the end, last couple/few years did it peter out. For reasons perhaps some to his detriment, some outside his control with the changing landscape, for whatever the reasons, the "tunnel workers" or "intellectual brutality" was all gone and has been hard to recover. I am, in spite of many serious considerations and flaws heavily to the contrary, optimistic for this upcoming season. If not for total wins, at least for some more of the strong physical play we saw glimpses of last season.

Oh and to bring it back to the topic this thread is supposed to be about, WBB, I think comparing Coach KP to Coach DS is like comparing apples to oranges, with one of the fruits seeming a bit overripe and not that appetizing.

RE: WBB news - crackpot - 05-19-2026

(05-19-2026, 09:25 AM)SkiBum80 Wrote:  Oh and to bring it back to the topic this thread is supposed to be about, WBB, I think comparing Coach KP to Coach DS is like comparing apples to oranges, with one of the fruits seeming a bit overripe and not that appetizing.

Oops. How do I clean up this Diet Coke off my keyboard?

(Yeah, and even though FB has a killer schedule coming up, all signs point in the right direction. Very excited to watch this rebuild).

RE: WBB news - BillBradley - 05-19-2026

I don't give KP a free pass due to the changing landscape of college athletics. For sure, the current state is a big time challenge for Stanford coaches. But in her case, she had the talent the past two years to do well and the table was set for at least a few more years. It was probably a reasonable expectation if we saw a slow decline, perhaps losing a player or two each year a la Van Gytenbeek, Nivar, Betts. Instead, the program cratered in 2 years, due to her inability as a coach and leader.

RE: WBB news - martyup - 05-20-2026

(05-18-2026, 10:51 AM)MV72018 Wrote:  "Hard" to shift culture quickly? Rather it's virtually impossible -- especially with the same person in charge. Bringing in a new person, such as the charismatic Harbaugh, opens the possibility of significant cultural change in a reasonable time frame. Can anyone think of an instance in which no key personnel changes were made and yet major cultural change was effected in short order? I can't. Effecting significant cultural change is not a "flipping the light switch" process. Significant cultural change is the result of gestational factors as much as it is to impositional efforts.

Didn't Close at UCLA make a major culture shift in the last couple of years?

RE: WBB news - Jskass - 05-20-2026

1. I suspect Cori Close is the exception to the rule, not the norm.
2. I suspect Cori could make that change because of her people-oriented and clearly flexible personality, whereas that is not the case here. 
3. I love JD-MBAs -- (I'm an MBA and have several family member JDs) - but in the right job. I suspect the skill set is not a fit for the needs of a head coach - scouting defense probably was the best use of her skill set within the coaching ranks but really tough to expect a major personality change.

RE: WBB news - BostonCard - 05-20-2026

Isn’t Madsen at Cal an MBA.  While not my line of work, I could see some aspects of a business degree (leadership, teamwork, etc) being relevant to coaching.

I think degrees matter less than other things. In fact you don’t need a degree to coach, though I don’t know of any without one.

BC

RE: WBB news - BobK - 05-20-2026

Madsen has a Stanford MBA

RE: WBB news - jacket3ree - 05-20-2026

At some point, this is simply performance-based. Is Stanford the new Old Dominion? Does anyone know the length of her contract? God forbid she gets an extension.

Unfair speculation: VanDerveer runs this show and she (and only she) decides when enough is enough. This type of toxicity lead to the firings of Elway and Harris, the latter after only two years. Of course neither of them were very good coaches at Stanford. But player demands won the day when they otherwise might have kept going. Now players will just leave en masse for a better situation. 

Tin foil time:  Is VanDerveer sandbagging this whole thing to look even more legendary? (Super unfair, but I thought the thought.)

RE: WBB news - BobK - 05-20-2026

Yes super unfair and more. Geesh

Why are WBB and mbb even practicing in the summer? They now practice leave for home for about 6 weeks then practice again just before school starts
No rule please

RE: WBB news - crackpot - 05-20-2026

(05-20-2026, 05:19 PM)BobK Wrote:  Yes super unfair and more. Geesh

Why are WBB and mbb even practicing in the summer?  They now practice leave for home for about 6 weeks then practice again just before school starts
No rule please

Yeah, that scared me, too. Had to look it up. Weight training, conditioning and skill instruction, no more than four hours of skill instruction are allowed per week.

RE: WBB news - jacket3ree - 05-20-2026

Do we think VanDerveer is just going to stay out of it, no matter how badly Paye tanks this thing? This has been a cliff that can't be explained away by Stanford "virtue" over NIL or anything else. Stunning even to casual fans like me. I get that one story circulates and breeds itself on the internet but search for "Stanford Women's Basketball" and the entire page comes back with "unwelcoming and toxic" in every brief. 

Right there on the page: "The two former players, who remained unnamed, told The Standard that Paye conducted 'distressing team meetings.' They said she threatened to bench players, which is a normal way for coaches to handle a situation where players are struggling on the court or are not meeting standards, but some players were allegedly also told they were 'too weak' to play for the program. A harsher consequence Paye allegedly floated was 'getting rid of scholarships or refusing to give recommendations for grad school programs.' This is enough to fire for cause if true and if Stanford really stands for what it says it stands for. Was there an investigation? They got rid of Taylor for something bad, although I could argue not this bad, and only after it leaked to the press. Stanford Athletics is no shining city on a hill lately. 

I'll leave my idiotic thought above so my idiocy is transparent, but apologize. That was a bridge to far. However, VanDerveer is the one who picked her, so she still has fingerprints on this. And an office.....

RE: WBB news - stopandpop - 05-20-2026

(05-20-2026, 02:32 PM)martyup Wrote:  
(05-18-2026, 10:51 AM)MV72018 Wrote:  "Hard" to shift culture quickly? Rather it's virtually impossible -- especially with the same person in charge. Bringing in a new person, such as the charismatic Harbaugh, opens the possibility of significant cultural change in a reasonable time frame. Can anyone think of an instance in which no key personnel changes were made and yet major cultural change was effected in short order? I can't. Effecting significant cultural change is not a "flipping the light switch" process. Significant cultural change is the result of gestational factors as much as it is to impositional efforts.

Didn't Close at UCLA make a major culture shift in the last couple of years?


The answer is YES!  Earlier (on this Board), I provided some background on what Cori did, but I'll paraphrase it here.  3 to 4 years ago, Cori realized that something was missing in the UCLA WBB program.  Her teams were always competitive.  She had talented players at all positions and the Bruins were consistently in the NCAA Tournament.

That wasn't enough.  Cori wanted her teams to get to the elite level and compete for national championships.  (Ironically, in Kate Paye's first press conference as head coach, KP said the very same thing.)

But there's a difference between saying you're going to be elite- and actually getting there. KP has shown she doesn't know how to get there, but Cori did. Earlier in Cori's career, she consulted John Wooden several times, asking for advice.  Cori went back to those conversations and realized a few things her teams were missing.  She was going to recruit - not just super-talented players, but players who wanted the same vision- to be the best and to do that as a TEAM, not just a group of individuals.  Cori then instilled a philosophy of working and grinding together and keeping that vision in front of them- every day.

Cori basically took many of the principles from Wooden's 'Pyramid of Success' and applied them to her team. 

After getting Betts, Cori began looking for other players in the portal who would help form the nucleus of a new and powerful squad.  Some of those transfers (she recruited) didn't work out and left, but those players who stayed bought into her philosophy and system.

In 2024-25, they got close, beating LSU but getting blown out by UCONN.  There were many meetings with Cori and the players after that loss.  One thing that came out of those meetings was UCLA had the talent to compete against UCONN, but lacked the confidence to play them.  They also concluded they were just not tough enough to win it all.  Cori began using 'continuous improvement' methods at practice and at games.  She took the weakest part of the team's performance and made that a new goal.  What you saw in the 2025-26 season and especially the Tournament, the Bruins not only had the confidence, but they gained the mental toughness that was missing the season before.

RE: WBB news - BobK - 05-20-2026

Close came to ucla the year after Wooden died

RE: WBB news - Griffins78 - 05-20-2026

(05-20-2026, 07:51 PM)BobK Wrote:  Close came to ucla the year after Wooden died
John Wooden started mentoring Cori over 30 years ago, well before she became the head coach at UCLA. She was a recent graduate and new assistant coach at UCLA and Steve Lavin invited her to meet Wooden with him. His great grand daughter was also Cori and they began meeting weekly even after she left UCLA.

She recruited Kiki Rice and Gabriella Jaquez (co-MVPs in the McDonald”s High School All-American game) as the core foundation of that culture - team first, really hard working, mature, strong values, etc. They played a significant role in recruiting the rest of the team. Then Lauren Betts came to UCLA and the effort and way Cori worked with Lauren to rehabilitate her and rebuild her confidence and love for the game is a really good example of the difference in the values, culture, approach and personalities of the coaches at Stanford vs. at UCLA.

RE: WBB news - MV72018 - 05-21-2026

(05-20-2026, 11:25 PM)Griffins78 Wrote:  
(05-20-2026, 07:51 PM)BobK Wrote:  Close came to ucla the year after Wooden died
John Wooden started mentoring Cori over 30 years ago, well before she became the head coach at UCLA. She was a recent graduate and new assistant coach at UCLA and Steve Lavin invited her to meet Wooden with him. His great grand daughter was also Cori and they began meeting weekly even after she left UCLA.

She recruited Kiki Rice and Gabriella Jaquez (co-MVPs in the McDonald”s High School All-American game) as the core foundation of that culture - team first, really hard working, mature, strong values, etc. They played a significant role in recruiting the rest of the team. Then Lauren Betts came to UCLA and the effort and way Cori worked with Lauren to rehabilitate her and rebuild her confidence and love for the game is a really good example of the difference in the values, culture, approach and personalities of the coaches at Stanford vs. at UCLA.

So the Cori cultural change at UCLA took several years to take effect (not counting the long Wooden mentorship). So I stand by my claim that cultural change is a gestational process, not an on-off-switch process, whether initiated by a newcomer or, more difficultly, a vet already onboard.

RE: WBB news - stopandpop - 05-21-2026

(05-20-2026, 07:51 PM)BobK Wrote:  Close came to ucla the year after Wooden died


Not true.  Cori was on the UCLA coaching staff in 1994 and 1995.

RE: WBB news - 82lsju - 05-21-2026

(05-21-2026, 10:22 AM)stopandpop Wrote:  
(05-20-2026, 07:51 PM)BobK Wrote:  Close came to ucla the year after Wooden died


Not true.  Cori was on the UCLA coaching staff in 1994 and 1995.

Quote:Cori Close played basketball for UC Santa Barbara and was an assistant coach for 18 years at three different universities before taking over as UCLA’s coach in 2011.


But her roots at UCLA run deep and are personal.

UCLA was her first stop as an assistant, and it was there she met John Wooden, who became a mentor and confidant.
...
Close’s first encounter with Wooden came after prodding from then-UCLA men’s assistant coach Steve Lavin to pay the coaching legend a visit. As soon as Wooden discovered that Close’s first name was spelled the same as one of his granddaughters, a friendship was born.

“I pretty much went back every Tuesday night after that and continued to go and spend time with him whenever he’d take me,” Close said.

https://www.latimes.com/sports/ucla/la-sp-ucla-women-ncaa-20160318-story.html

and more here

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6251327/2025/04/03/ucla-cori-close-john-wooden-final-four/

RE: WBB news - stopandpop - 05-21-2026

(05-21-2026, 09:38 AM)MV72018 Wrote:  
(05-20-2026, 11:25 PM)Griffins78 Wrote:  
(05-20-2026, 07:51 PM)BobK Wrote:  Close came to ucla the year after Wooden died
John Wooden started mentoring Cori over 30 years ago, well before she became the head coach at UCLA. She was a recent graduate and new assistant coach at UCLA and Steve Lavin invited her to meet Wooden with him. His great grand daughter was also Cori and they began meeting weekly even after she left UCLA.

She recruited Kiki Rice and Gabriella Jaquez (co-MVPs in the McDonald”s High School All-American game) as the core foundation of that culture - team first, really hard working, mature, strong values, etc. They played a significant role in recruiting the rest of the team. Then Lauren Betts came to UCLA and the effort and way Cori worked with Lauren to rehabilitate her and rebuild her confidence and love for the game is a really good example of the difference in the values, culture, approach and personalities of the coaches at Stanford vs. at UCLA.

So the Cori cultural change at UCLA took several years to take effect (not counting the long Wooden mentorship). So I stand by my claim that cultural change is a gestational process, not an on-off-switch process, whether initiated by a newcomer or, more difficultly, a vet already onboard.



You are correct.  I built a career helping organizations of all kinds perform better and for many, it requires a fundamental cultural shift and cultural shifts don't happen overnight.  It's the same in WBB.

RE: WBB news - Spiny_Norman - 05-21-2026

One of the unique aspects of the UCLA situation is that the culture change was effected without a leadership change. In my experience in the business world, transformation or turnaround efforts are almost never successful without a leadership change.

However when talking about UCLA, we should recognize that their WBB program was not in a hole. They just were kind of stagnant. They kept achieving success by many measures (NCAA tournaments, ranked teams, sweet 16s, All American players). But they could not break through to win big games. So Close was starting from a strong position already when she initiated a team culture remake. Stanford right now is in a deep hole.  And it is a generally accepted axiom that the leader who got you into a hole is not the person to get you out of it.

RE: WBB news - stopandpop - 05-21-2026

(05-21-2026, 10:46 AM)Spiny_Norman Wrote:  One of the unique aspects of the UCLA situation is that the culture change was effected without a leadership change. In my experience in the business world, transformation or turnaround efforts are almost never successful without a leadership change.

However when talking about UCLA, we should recognize that their WBB program was not in a hole. They just were kind of stagnant. They kept achieving success by many measures (NCAA tournaments, ranked teams, sweet 16s, All American players). But they could not break through to win big games. So Close was starting from a strong position already when she initiated a team culture remake. Stanford right now is in a deep hole.  And it is a generally accepted axiom that the leader who got you into a hole is not the person to get you out of it.


There was an excellent book by Jim Collins entitled:  "From good to great" that explained what was required to actually shift culture.  As I stated earlier, the Bruins were already a very good team but for Cori, being good was not sufficient.  You are absolutely right when you say 'Stanford right now is in a deep hole.....and the leader who got you into the hole is not the person to get you out of it.  And yet, KP is allowed to continue.  Simply amazing.