WBB: Stanford vs. UCLA Friday 6pm

WBB: Stanford vs. UCLA Friday 6pm - Printable Version

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RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UCLA Friday 6pm - 76lsjumb - 03-03-2023

(03-03-2023, 09:14 PM)Card10Fan Wrote: What an absolute disaster of a fourth quarter and and we lose a game we had no business of losing. Our team just doesn't have that moxy or will to win. It's evident and been on display all year in games we've dropped. Why should we expect it to just on turn on now. So disappointing on so many levels. We were up 16 in the second half and just collapsed.

Congrats to UCLA and Kiki Rice, who had a tremendous game.

One of the commentators just said that at halftime she never expected UCLA to be able to make up the deficit. She must be new to Stanford basketball. Unfortunately, having watched Stanford WBB for over 30 years, I’ve seen this happen way too many times in important games, and wasn’t at all surprised. For all of Tara’s greatness, in game coaching is her Achilles heel. As a general matter, I admire her calmness. However, seeing her and the entire staff sitting sullenly on the bench during the last minute seemed like a very unnerving flashback to Johnny Dawkins.

I do believe that the abysmal reffing at the end cost us the game, but it was abysmal coaching in the second half that put us in the position to be vulnerable to the bad reffing.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UCLA Friday 6pm - 81alum - 03-03-2023

(03-03-2023, 09:18 PM)BosCard Wrote: The tournament will decide this season. Either we will redeem ourselves and get to the Final Four or more. Or we will lose in the Sweet Sixteen and it will be a toilet bowl season relative to the potential of this team.

Agreed about the importance of the Big Dance now. We just have to see how far our coming 2 seed can carry us. I guess I would be content with the 2008 model when we knocked off #1 seed Maryland and made it all the way to the title game, but I worry about the 2013 model (loss to Georgia in the sweet 16).

We have enormous talent on this team, but it has not completely come together and jelled all year. It has been a very uncharacteristic year as far as improvement goes. We now have 5 losses for the season, with the likelihood that we will wind up with six. That is high for Stanford WBB, but is especially surprising with our current talent level.

Let's see if a little time for sober reflection and intense practice can give us a much better 2nd tourney than our first.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UCLA Friday 6pm - Card10Fan - 03-03-2023

(03-03-2023, 09:18 PM)BosCard Wrote: The tournament will decide this season. Either we will redeem ourselves and get to the Final Four or more. Or we will lose in the Sweet Sixteen and it will be a toilet bowl season relative to the potential of this team.

I've said this all year. I don't think urgency and grit and will to win is something you just turn on in the NCAA tourney. We should have been motivated to beat Utah (and win the conference outright). We lost. We should have been motivated to respond this week and prove we are the best team in the conference tourney. We didn't and we lost. How many other motivating factors are left?!!!

I just don't see how we suddenly turn it on and put it all together. Not gonna happen IMO. I'm expecting an early NCAA exit. So teams just don't have it and this has been one of those seasons of certain disappointments. Mostly because we have so much talent but just can't figure it out. It's frustrating because the pieces are there but it's just not happening.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UCLA Friday 6pm - JohnR34231 - 03-03-2023

(03-03-2023, 09:32 PM)76lsjumb Wrote:
(03-03-2023, 09:14 PM)Card10Fan Wrote: What an absolute disaster of a fourth quarter and and we lose a game we had no business of losing. Our team just doesn't have that moxy or will to win. It's evident and been on display all year in games we've dropped. Why should we expect it to just on turn on now. So disappointing on so many levels. We were up 16 in the second half and just collapsed.

Congrats to UCLA and Kiki Rice, who had a tremendous game.

One of the commentators just said that at halftime she never expected UCLA to be able to make up the deficit. She must be new to Stanford basketball. Unfortunately, having watched Stanford WBB for over 30 years, I’ve seen this happen way too many times in important games, and wasn’t at all surprised. For all of Tara’s greatness, in game coaching is her Achilles heel. As a general matter, I admire her calmness. However, seeing her and the entire staff sitting sullenly on the bench during the last minute seemed like a very unnerving flashback to Johnny Dawkins.

I do believe that the abysmal reffing at the end cost us the game, but it was abysmal coaching in the second half that put us in the position to be vulnerable to the bad reffing.

Yeah, I have always thought good teams overcome bad officiating to win games.
Obviously it didn't happen in this one.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UCLA Friday 6pm - chimera - 03-03-2023

That was disappointing. Yes, the refs sucked at the end, and maybe we pull it out if they don't give bad call after bad call to favor UCLA, but then again, gotta give UCLA credit. They were the aggressors late in the game. They took and made their shots. They forced the officials into calls. We stood around, played like we had already won, until it was too late and UCLA had all the momentum.

Overall this season has been a letdown, and while I hope for redemption in the NCAAs, I just don't see a team that has it in them to make a F4, much less win it all. The defense completely collapsed in the 4th quarter. Tired? Why should anyone on our team be that tired unless someone is ill or banged up and we just don't know about it? UCLA looked just fine on their third game in three days. We looked like a team that thought we deserved a win before the win was fully earned. I hate to say that but that's what it looked like to me. We played not to lose, UCLA played to win, took their shots, and made them.

This is quite a comedown from #2 and most people's pick to be South Carolina's main challenger to limping into the NCAAs as probably a 2 seed. At this point the team is what it is. This is one of the only times I can say that while individual players have improved, the team as a whole has not, not like we are used to seeing. Maybe the pieces just don't mesh well, no matter how talented each player may be. Maybe the coaching has not gotten the best out of them or run the best schemes. I don't know. I do know that unless the level of play kicks into another gear, this is not a F4 team.

I confess to not really enjoying this season all that much as a fan. I've found it frustrating. In fact I find WCBB overall frustrating and not that much fun to watch these days. I hate all the transfers, like 81alum does. I find the games poorly officiated too much. The game is too physical or else a foul fest, with little in between, and neither are enjoyable to watch. The refs have a very tough job, maybe an impossible one, but still, so many players walk, so many carry the ball, so much "initiating contact" to draw fouls, etc., etc., and none of that makes the game fun to watch. I've loved women's basketball for many years. I have been falling out of love lately. Maybe it is because I watch a lot of WVB, where the calls are much more objective - in or out, touch or not, into the net or not. There are bad calls but the matches are not dependent on who calls them or how they call them like basketball is. Between the officiating, the style many teams play, the mass transferring every season, and the absolute loathing I have for how games are generally announced on TV (if I never hear Mary Murphy again, I would be quite happy), I just don't know how much longer I can hack being a basketball fan.

PS. I am not convinced the P-12 is all that great either. I think the top teams are just not as good as everyone thought so we have a mess of very good teams but no great ones. Maybe the NCAAs will prove me wrong. The conference being good is not why we lost to USC, UW, Utah and now UCLA. We are just not that good, not that those teams or the rest of the conference is so amazing.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UCLA Friday 6pm - cardfan1996 - 03-03-2023

UCLA wasn’t tired because Cori generously subs in her bench and rest all her players.

But I agree we were playing not to lose. Slow walking the ball up, and not getting into actions until late in the shot clock and it was like the middle of the 4th not the end.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UCLA Friday 6pm - Hieronymus - 03-03-2023

I think who we play is going to be very important in the tournament. This team simply doesn’t have good answers for certain defenses - or at least not consistent answers.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UCLA Friday 6pm - JohnR34231 - 03-03-2023

Yeah, the way the team has been playing as of late, I would be very surprised (pleasantly of course) to see us go very deep in the Big Dance.
I agree with the sentiment that while there are a lot of good teams in the Pac-12, I don't see any great ones. I would be surprised if anyone goes deep in the tourney.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UCLA Friday 6pm - chimera - 03-03-2023

Oh come on, UCLA doesn't go as deep as Stanford does and Close is no genius at subbing. I don't see the times played in the stats yet but against UA, UCLA played their starters over 30 minutes and this was game three for them. They went to over time in their first game. Stanford has gone deeper than them most games. There is no reason anyone on our team should be all that tired, certainly not more tired than UCLA. Jones and Jump play a lot, probably a bit too much, but sitting another minute or two shouldn't make a vast difference. This isn't UConn where he rides his starters plus one sub for 40 minutes.

I do totally agree that the one possession where it looked like we were running down the clock on purpose with a three point lead and 3 minutes to go was really, really bad. I hated that at the time, and it shows why we lost the game. That wasn't tiredness, it was passiveness and playing not to lose. We stopped doing what worked on offense and totally collapsed on defense. There were plenty of fresh legs in the game. Defense should not have struggled that much. But again, UCLA took and made tough shots. We did not.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UCLA Friday 6pm - chrisk - 03-03-2023

(03-03-2023, 09:14 PM)Card10Fan Wrote: What an absolute disaster of a fourth quarter and and we lose a game we had no business of losing. Our team just doesn't have that moxy or will to win. It's evident and been on display all year in games we've dropped. Why should we expect it to just on turn on now. So disappointing on so many levels. We were up 16 in the second half and just collapsed.

Congrats to UCLA and Kiki Rice, who had a tremendous game.

The lack of moxy tonight was poor shooting by Haley and Hannah.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UCLA Friday 6pm - WBB fan - 03-03-2023

Lots of gloom re this game, and I'm There as well. But to contribute a positive, Cam''s 7 made free throws in this game bring her to at least 35 straight. ( Might be more. She was 5/6 in the USC game and I don't have the info on which one she missed). Anyone know what the Stanford record is for consecutive free throws? I recall that Jeanette Pohlen reached somewhere in the 30s, I think, her senior year

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UCLA Friday 6pm - TonyLima - 03-03-2023

About 30 years ago I stopped watching the NFL because of the lousy officiating. I fear the same disease has infected WBB. NCAA in general and Pac-12 specifically better get their act together.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UCLA Friday 6pm - Softball Fan - 03-03-2023

I think it might have been preferable this season to have five clear-cut starters rather than constantly restructuring the team. I don't think it's anyone's fault; not the coaches' fault. Five starters didn't emerge who could be constantly counted on to perform start to finish, game after game.

I don't see the synergy at times with the individual talent outweighing the collective results. The flow offense not always flowing so well; maybe partly because five players never got comfortable together.

I still think Stanford has the talent to beat any team in the country on any given night. Does the team have the consistency to string together a top performance in six consecutive games?

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UCLA Friday 6pm - Giants - 03-03-2023

(03-03-2023, 10:11 PM)TonyLima Wrote: About 30 years ago I stopped watching the NFL because of the lousy officiating. I fear the same disease has infected WBB. NCAA in general and Pac-12 specifically better get their act together.

Based on your comment, I have to assume that you stopped watching PAC-12 football well over 20 years ago…. :)

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UCLA Friday 6pm - chimera - 03-03-2023

(03-03-2023, 10:11 PM)TonyLima Wrote: About 30 years ago I stopped watching the NFL because of the lousy officiating. I fear the same disease has infected WBB. NCAA in general and Pac-12 specifically better get their act together.

I've been a season ticket holder for 25ish years. I used to never miss a game. I went for probably 20 years straight where I did not miss a home game. Planned vacations around the schedule. Felt sad when my pile of tickets dwindled. Drove through storms I should never have been out in to get to Maples from San Francisco. Rewatched games I saw in person to see what I could see differently on TV. Enjoyed even the 10 loss seasons. Now I kind of want this season to be over so I don't have to care anymore. Maybe it is me, maybe it is the game, maybe a bit of both, but next year is make or break for me. If I find it all more frustrating than fun, maybe it is time to take a step back, care a lot less, stop stressing and fussing over games played by people I don't really know at a university I did not attend. College sports are now more like pro sports played by college athletes. NIL, social media, podcasts, transfers, eh, I can watch women's pro sports where the games are played with more skill and more fun if I want to watch sports.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UCLA Friday 6pm - TonyLima - 03-03-2023

(03-03-2023, 10:20 PM)Giants Wrote:
(03-03-2023, 10:11 PM)TonyLima Wrote: About 30 years ago I stopped watching the NFL because of the lousy officiating. I fear the same disease has infected WBB. NCAA in general and Pac-12 specifically better get their act together.

Based on your comment, I have to assume that you stopped watching PAC-12 football well over 20 years ago…. :)

Nice inference. Gotta do some calendar math here. 2023 - 20 = 2003. Sounds about right.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UCLA Friday 6pm - BostonCard - 03-03-2023

(03-03-2023, 10:08 PM)chimera Wrote: Oh come on, UCLA doesn't go as deep as Stanford does and Close is no genius at subbing. I don't see the times played in the stats yet but against UA, UCLA played their starters over 30 minutes and this was game three for them. They went to over time in their first game. Stanford has gone deeper than them most games. There is no reason anyone on our team should be all that tired, certainly not more tired than UCLA. Jones and Jump play a lot, probably a bit too much, but sitting another minute or two shouldn't make a vast difference. This isn't UConn where he rides his starters plus one sub for 40 minutes.

Minutes aren’t up yet, but both teams played 10 players and bench points were Stanford 21, UCLA 9. I would be surprised if there was a large discrepancy in the distribution of minutes between the teams.

BC

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UCLA Friday 6pm - TonyLima - 03-03-2023

(03-03-2023, 10:29 PM)chimera Wrote:
(03-03-2023, 10:11 PM)TonyLima Wrote: About 30 years ago I stopped watching the NFL because of the lousy officiating. I fear the same disease has infected WBB. NCAA in general and Pac-12 specifically better get their act together.

I've been a season ticket holder for 25ish years. I used to never miss a game. I went for probably 20 years straight where I did not miss a home game. Planned vacations around the schedule. Felt sad when my pile of tickets dwindled. Drove through storms I should never have been out in to get to Maples from San Francisco. Rewatched games I saw in person to see what I could see differently on TV. Enjoyed even the 10 loss seasons. Now I kind of want this season to be over so I don't have to care anymore. Maybe it is me, maybe it is the game, maybe a bit of both, but next year is make or break for me. If I find it all more frustrating than fun, maybe it is time to take a step back, care a lot less, stop stressing and fussing over games played by people I don't really know at a university I did not attend. College sports are now more like pro sports played by college athletes. NIL, social media, podcasts, transfers, eh, I can watch women's pro sports where the games are played with more skill and more fun if I want to watch sports.

Gotta add that if WBB is headed toward WWE, I’m out.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UCLA Friday 6pm - MV72018 - 03-03-2023

(03-03-2023, 09:18 PM)BosCard Wrote: The tournament will decide this season. Either we will redeem ourselves and get to the Final Four or more. Or we will lose in the Sweet Sixteen and it will be a toilet bowl season relative to the potential of this team.

Finally, someone talking sense here rather than seeing things through relentlessly rose-colored glasses. I've been saying all year that Jones has been playing lackluster O too often. (Tonight she was not only 5 for 15 but only had 3 assists.) It finall caught up with us. In addition, Tara's coaching in Q4 left much to be desired. To put it bluntly, she got her clock cleaned by the UCLA coach. No flexibility, no well designed strategy, adjustments, or key plays in crunch time. Same old, same old. Yes, Tata has won 3 NATIs, which is laudable, but the game has changed and, as far as I can see, she hasn't changed that much. Our team is relatively SLOW and UNATHLETIC compared to our elite opponents, including UCLA. We've relied on size and three-point shooting. No one since Wiggins to take it to the hoop and finish or dish. Haley seems overrated to me. To make it in the WNBA she will need to develop a shot she can make reliably. Acrobatic layups and rebounds won't be enough, and passes to back door cutters will take her only so far in the WNBA.

Nevertheles, it was still a good season. Maybe now Tara will make changes, skills of available players permitting, that will allow us to make a deep run in the Dance. Otherwise an early exit looms. Perhaps it will prove a good thing in the long run for us to have lost this game. Perhaps that will shake things up and make the coaches see the need for serious changes, in recruiting if not with this squad in upcoming games. Most importantly, kudos and congrats to what seems to be a wonderful, intelligent, and endearing group of teammates.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UCLA Friday 6pm - JohnR34231 - 03-03-2023

It's been a good season. The problem is we all expected a great one.
As people have been saying, our performance in the tourney will determine how good.