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RE: WBB: Stanford 47 Notre Dame 96 - GK3 - 02-07-2025

(02-07-2025, 11:01 AM)BillBradley Wrote:  I just rewatched the second quarter because I wanted to better understand what happened. It was 24-13 when ND went on a 26-2 run. During that stretch, so many of their points came in transition while our players were simply jogging back. We would miss a shot, crash the boards, and they would get an easy transition bucket at the other end while our rebounders were somewhere between half court and the top of the key. Or, we would turn it over and same thing - half our team would jog back. One response to this could be "well, Notre Dame is just way faster than us. That's why they are so good." Yeah, not having any of that. There is no excuse for a team to ever take plays off on defense. Our team showed very little interest in competing. That's why ND scored 96 instead of 76, even with the turnovers. And if we hit a few shots along the way, we score 62 instead of 47. 76-62 is more like what it should have been. Embarrassing.

While I am sure not many people want to hear this , but Tara stayed too long.  When the handwritting of all the changes were on the wall she should have taken her most deserved achievements and retired.  She left Kate in the same mess, more or less, that Shaw left Taylor.  College sports have changed by a brobdingnagian magnitude and we can't live in the past. Unfortunately I think in the now current era, basketball coaches, men and women, have to focus on the one year benefit one can get from a transfer. You can no longer recruit 3 or 4 good 18 year olds and expect them to be around when they are 20. I don't think anyone has a real solution to this mess, but trying to recruit and develop players like in the past is a road to failure.

RE: WBB: Stanford @ Notre Dame Thursday 5:30; preview and game thread - OCcardinal - 02-07-2025

(02-06-2025, 08:38 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  But it isn’t just the recruiting, but also the failure to retain highly capable players that signed.  The team with Betts and Iriafen, who Paye presumably recruited, probably doesn’t lose by 50 points.

BC
Interestingly, Umeh's +/- in 17 minutes was -5 (a rate of -12 over 40 minutes). Without Umeh on the floor the team's +/- was -44 in 23 minutes (a rate of -85 over 40 minutes).  So, yeah, imagine if Betts and/or Iriafen were available.

RE: WBB: Stanford @ Notre Dame Thursday 5:30; preview and game thread - MV72018 - 02-07-2025

(02-06-2025, 07:04 PM)81alum Wrote:  After one quarter I am seriously debating with myself whether to stop watching and do something more fun.  I have not had that internal debate for 10 years.

Are you of the view that the installation of a new coach to succeed Tara was handled properly and optimally, viz., by allowing Tara to hand pick her successor: her lead assistant for years who had zero head coaching experience? I am not. 

This game was a devastating rout, shredded our image as a competitive team, and arguably the worst basketball Stanford women have played in many years.

RE: WBB: Stanford 47 Notre Dame 96 - chimera - 02-07-2025

I don't watch with much emotional attachment anymore but I do watch and pay attention.  Bottom line to me is that yes, talent is down, but not down to the point we see such poor play.  We may not have the talent level of last year but we have way more than the results indicate.  The team seems lost out there.  When one or two players struggle but the rest are ok, the issue is those particular players.  When the whole team struggles, the issues are deeper - coaching and schemes.  

I very much want Kate Paye to succeed.  She is in a tough spot.  I'm sure there is a learning curve for her.  Even with all her years as an assistant or associate head coach, being the head coach, making all the decisions yourself, leading a team, setting the tone, etc., etc. is a big jump.  So far it is not going well.  The ND game was embarrassing.  The team was not ready for the game and did not play with focus and intensity.  We generally do not look very well coached.  

The only slightly encouraging sign is that the players who are helping the most are the freshmen and sophs.  I do think Tara retired at maybe the best time for her personally but the worst time for the program and for Paye, who had to reinvent the team in a sense, given the changes in the roster.  She was not set up for success and certainly has not made the team greater than the sum of the talents on the roster.  We look much less than the sum of the parts, lack of posts or not.  I just hope the team hasn't given up.  If we lose young players after this wretched season, next year may not be all that much better, and if so, well program is in deep doo doo.

RE: WBB: Stanford 47 Notre Dame 96 - BillBradley - 02-07-2025

(02-07-2025, 03:33 PM)chimera Wrote:  I don't watch with much emotional attachment anymore but I do watch and pay attention.  Bottom line to me is that yes, talent is down, but not down to the point we see such poor play.  We may not have the talent level of last year but we have way more than the results indicate.  The team seems lost out there.  When one or two players struggle but the rest are ok, the issue is those particular players.  When the whole team struggles, the issues are deeper - coaching and schemes.  

I very much want Kate Paye to succeed.  She is in a tough spot.  I'm sure there is a learning curve for her.  Even with all her years as an assistant or associate head coach, being the head coach, making all the decisions yourself, leading a team, setting the tone, etc., etc. is a big jump.  So far it is not going well.  The ND game was embarrassing.  The team was not ready for the game and did not play with focus and intensity.  We generally do not look very well coached.  

The only slightly encouraging sign is that the players who are helping the most are the freshmen and sophs.  I do think Tara retired at maybe the best time for her personally but the worst time for the program and for Paye, who had to reinvent the team in a sense, given the changes in the roster.  She was not set up for success and certainly has not made the team greater than the sum of the talents on the roster.  We look much less than the sum of the parts, lack of posts or not.  I just hope the team hasn't given up.  If we lose young players after this wretched season, next year may not be all that much better, and if so, well program is in deep doo doo.
Agree 100%. We have enough talent to have made the tourney. Massey has us at 41 and the NET Rankings at 47. We should be somewhere around 20 IMO. But there is so little focus and intensity as you mentioned.

RE: WBB: Stanford 47 Notre Dame 96 - TonyLima - 02-07-2025

Any word on Nunu?

RE: WBB: Stanford 47 Notre Dame 96 - 81alum - 02-07-2025

(02-07-2025, 03:33 PM)chimera Wrote:  I don't watch with much emotional attachment anymore but I do watch and pay attention.  Bottom line to me is that yes, talent is down, but not down to the point we see such poor play.  We may not have the talent level of last year but we have way more than the results indicate.  The team seems lost out there.  When one or two players struggle but the rest are ok, the issue is those particular players.  When the whole team struggles, the issues are deeper - coaching and schemes.  

I very much want Kate Paye to succeed.  She is in a tough spot.  I'm sure there is a learning curve for her.  Even with all her years as an assistant or associate head coach, being the head coach, making all the decisions yourself, leading a team, setting the tone, etc., etc. is a big jump.  So far it is not going well.  The ND game was embarrassing.  The team was not ready for the game and did not play with focus and intensity.  We generally do not look very well coached.  

The only slightly encouraging sign is that the players who are helping the most are the freshmen and sophs.  I do think Tara retired at maybe the best time for her personally but the worst time for the program and for Paye, who had to reinvent the team in a sense, given the changes in the roster.  She was not set up for success and certainly has not made the team greater than the sum of the talents on the roster.  We look much less than the sum of the parts, lack of posts or not.  I just hope the team hasn't given up.  If we lose young players after this wretched season, next year may not be all that much better, and if so, well program is in deep doo doo.
Good to hear from you!

Remember that when Tara retired neither she nor Kate knew which players would be back and which would be gone.  Cam may have told them beforehand that she was going pro--but Cam herself had seriously thought about coming back until pretty late in the season.  And Kiki's decision came after the announcement of Tara's retirement.   So neither Tara nor Kate could have known just how bad a situation Kate was walking into.

I think Kate's biggest mistake so far was not installing a new offense immediately over the summer when she should have realized that she would have too few players capable of running the Princeton with proficiency.  But at that time she still thought she would have Lepolo, who at least can run the system.  Getting so much bad news so late seems to have made it impossible to really change those schemes in time.  Schemes indeed.

The real key to the season's collapse, though, seems to me to be the receding of Bosgana and Demetre as scorers.  They have both been streaky in the past, but when they got ample play time early this year they seemed to become more consistent.  That went "poof" in the last month.

I'm still not giving up on Kate Paye, but I sure want to see more improvement and a few wins before this season is done and buried...

RE: WBB: Stanford 47 Notre Dame 96 - M T - 02-07-2025

I watched the entire game even though it was painful. 

But I just skipped a bunch ot posts here as they are even worse performances. 

Some of us remember worse losses, maybe not by as many points, but more unexpected than this. Who here was expecting a victory?

As most teams find out, when you take a cog out, the gears grind, not mesh.  Players try even harder.  Passes are too tight, players cut differently than expected, the adrenaline is rushing them. Yes, Stanford should still have beaten Princeton, but calling for the coach to be fired bwas not appropriate. 

Who here feels Kate Paye is responsible for
Instead it feels like there are a bunch of people here that care only for a 90% or higher win percentage. If the win percentage drops, they want to point fingers and just say “You’re Fired!” to everyone.  Is this some kind of ego thing?  Spoiled by decades of success, they expect wins on a silver platter?

I don’t believe any of the noisy posters are joining the Cardboarders at half time at the WBB games.  Imagine that…
Those at the games seem to be fans. We discuss the good and the bad, what’s working and what’s not. Those are fans whose interaction I appreciate.

76lsjumb - 76lsjumb - 02-07-2025

(02-07-2025, 10:37 PM)M T Wrote:  I watched the entire game even though it was painful. 

But I just skipped a bunch ot posts here as they are even worse performances. 

Some of us remember worse losses, maybe not by as many points, but more unexpected than this. Who here was expecting a victory?

As most teams find out, when you take a cog out, the gears grind, not mesh.  Players try even harder.  Passes are too tight, players cut differently than expected, the adrenaline is rushing them. Yes, Stanford should still have beaten Princeton, but calling for the coach to be fired bwas not appropriate. 

Who here feels Kate Paye is responsible for
  • Agara’s injury?  
  • Or USC’s deep pockets? 
  • Or the success of Brink?
  • Or the injury for Lepolo?
  • Or Stanford’s academic standards?
  • Or the #3 recruiting class next year?

Instead it feels like there are a bunch of people here that care only for a 90% or higher win percentage. If the win percentage drops, they want to point fingers and just say “You’re Fired!” to everyone.  Is this some kind of ego thing?  Spoiled by decades of success, they expect wins on a silver platter?

I don’t believe any of the noisy posters are joining the Cardboarders at half time at the WBB games.  Imagine that…
Those at the games seem to be fans. We discuss the good and the bad, what’s working and what’s not. Those are fans whose interaction I appreciate.

Well, that pretty much ends the discussion, I guess. If you think there’s a problem with the coaching, you’re clearly wrong. And your probably not a real Stanford women’s basketball fan.

Glad that’s settled.

Mudhead - Mudhead - 02-08-2025

(02-07-2025, 10:37 PM)M T Wrote:  I watched the entire game even though it was painful. 

But I just skipped a bunch ot posts here as they are even worse performances. 

Some of us remember worse losses, maybe not by as many points, but more unexpected than this. Who here was expecting a victory?

As most teams find out, when you take a cog out, the gears grind, not mesh.  Players try even harder.  Passes are too tight, players cut differently than expected, the adrenaline is rushing them. Yes, Stanford should still have beaten Princeton, but calling for the coach to be fired bwas not appropriate. 

Who here feels Kate Paye is responsible for
  • Agara’s injury?  
  • Or USC’s deep pockets? 
  • Or the success of Brink?
  • Or the injury for Lepolo?
  • Or Stanford’s academic standards?
  • Or the #3 recruiting class next year?

Instead it feels like there are a bunch of people here that care only for a 90% or higher win percentage. If the win percentage drops, they want to point fingers and just say “You’re Fired!” to everyone.  Is this some kind of ego thing?  Spoiled by decades of success, they expect wins on a silver platter?

I don’t believe any of the noisy posters are joining the Cardboarders at half time at the WBB games.  Imagine that…


Those at the games seem to be fans. We discuss the good and the bad, what’s working and what’s not. Those are fans whose interaction I appreciate.

over the last 15 years of being a season ticket holder, I’ve attended a lot of games and when we are not there our kids use the tickets.  None of us has ever joined the Cardboarders  at half time. That’s not a diss to those who do, it’s just not how we like to spend our half times. Yet we are still fans. So are those who have never been able to  attend a game but follow the team on TV or radio. They too are fans.  Just not those whose interaction you appreciate. 

We can live with that.

RE: WBB: Stanford 47 Notre Dame 96 - paloalto - 02-08-2025

(02-07-2025, 10:37 PM)M T Wrote:  I watched the entire game even though it was painful. 

But I just skipped a bunch ot posts here as they are even worse performances. 

Some of us remember worse losses, maybe not by as many points, but more unexpected than this. Who here was expecting a victory?

As most teams find out, when you take a cog out, the gears grind, not mesh.  Players try even harder.  Passes are too tight, players cut differently than expected, the adrenaline is rushing them. Yes, Stanford should still have beaten Princeton, but calling for the coach to be fired bwas not appropriate. 

Who here feels Kate Paye is responsible for
  • Agara’s injury?  
  • Or USC’s deep pockets? 
  • Or the success of Brink?
  • Or the injury for Lepolo?
  • Or Stanford’s academic standards?
  • Or the #3 recruiting class next year?

Instead it feels like there are a bunch of people here that care only for a 90% or higher win percentage. If the win percentage drops, they want to point fingers and just say “You’re Fired!” to everyone.  Is this some kind of ego thing?  Spoiled by decades of success, they expect wins on a silver platter?

I don’t believe any of the noisy posters are joining the Cardboarders at half time at the WBB games.  Imagine that…
Those at the games seem to be fans. We discuss the good and the bad, what’s working and what’s not. Those are fans whose interaction I appreciate.

Dude, you're not a better fan than anyone else here.  Cut the condescending crap.

RE: WBB: Stanford 47 Notre Dame 96 - BillBradley - 02-08-2025

(02-08-2025, 02:05 PM)paloalto Wrote:  
(02-07-2025, 10:37 PM)M T Wrote:  I watched the entire game even though it was painful. 

But I just skipped a bunch ot posts here as they are even worse performances. 

Some of us remember worse losses, maybe not by as many points, but more unexpected than this. Who here was expecting a victory?

As most teams find out, when you take a cog out, the gears grind, not mesh.  Players try even harder.  Passes are too tight, players cut differently than expected, the adrenaline is rushing them. Yes, Stanford should still have beaten Princeton, but calling for the coach to be fired bwas not appropriate. 

Who here feels Kate Paye is responsible for
  • Agara’s injury?  
  • Or USC’s deep pockets? 
  • Or the success of Brink?
  • Or the injury for Lepolo?
  • Or Stanford’s academic standards?
  • Or the #3 recruiting class next year?

Instead it feels like there are a bunch of people here that care only for a 90% or higher win percentage. If the win percentage drops, they want to point fingers and just say “You’re Fired!” to everyone.  Is this some kind of ego thing?  Spoiled by decades of success, they expect wins on a silver platter?

I don’t believe any of the noisy posters are joining the Cardboarders at half time at the WBB games.  Imagine that…
Those at the games seem to be fans. We discuss the good and the bad, what’s working and what’s not. Those are fans whose interaction I appreciate.

Dude, you're not a better fan than anyone else here.  Cut the condescending crap.
Exactly. Pretty sure everyone who posted critical comments already took into account all those things you listed. We know a few things about Stanford womens basketball too.

RE: WBB: Stanford 47 Notre Dame 96 - qwerty49 - 02-08-2025

(02-08-2025, 02:17 PM)BillBradley Wrote:  
(02-08-2025, 02:05 PM)paloalto Wrote:  
(02-07-2025, 10:37 PM)M T Wrote:  I watched the entire game even though it was painful. 

But I just skipped a bunch ot posts here as they are even worse performances. 

Some of us remember worse losses, maybe not by as many points, but more unexpected than this. Who here was expecting a victory?

As most teams find out, when you take a cog out, the gears grind, not mesh.  Players try even harder.  Passes are too tight, players cut differently than expected, the adrenaline is rushing them. Yes, Stanford should still have beaten Princeton, but calling for the coach to be fired bwas not appropriate. 

Who here feels Kate Paye is responsible for
  • Agara’s injury?  
  • Or USC’s deep pockets? 
  • Or the success of Brink?
  • Or the injury for Lepolo?
  • Or Stanford’s academic standards?
  • Or the #3 recruiting class next year?

Instead it feels like there are a bunch of people here that care only for a 90% or higher win percentage. If the win percentage drops, they want to point fingers and just say “You’re Fired!” to everyone.  Is this some kind of ego thing?  Spoiled by decades of success, they expect wins on a silver platter?

I don’t believe any of the noisy posters are joining the Cardboarders at half time at the WBB games.  Imagine that…
Those at the games seem to be fans. We discuss the good and the bad, what’s working and what’s not. Those are fans whose interaction I appreciate.

Dude, you're not a better fan than anyone else here.  Cut the condescending crap.
Exactly. Pretty sure everyone who posted critical comments already took into account all those things you listed. We know a few things about Stanford womens basketball too.

I guess I had better start driving up from SoCal for every game so that I can argue in person with MT if Sonja Henning or Jamie Carey was the better PG. I wish I had known prior to moving away from the Bay Area in 1987 that it would diminish my status as a Stanford WBB fan so greatly. Thanks for setting me straight, MT! I always appreciate when you school us ignoramuses.

RE: WBB: Stanford 47 Notre Dame 96 - 81alum - 02-08-2025

I value the observations from everyone; sometimes observations from those at a distance are more objective than from those of us who are closer to to the program.  That said, those of us who do meet up can put names and faces to the posts--the posters are not disembodied text but real people.  We learn the personalities attached to the opinions.  As such, we have greater sensitivity to the nuances, irony, and idiosyncrasies of the posters that help us put the posts in a context.  That does not make us better, but it gives us a different perspective--not so much towards Stanford WBB but to each other.  It promotes civility when you realize that the people you are exchanging opinions with are going to meet up with you in the near future.   And civility and kindness--even among Stanford WBB fans who have been know to disagree--are worth cultivating, even when a piece of text rubs us the wrong way.

RE: WBB: Stanford 47 Notre Dame 96 - chrisk - 02-08-2025

Ohio State at USC now on FOX prime time. Midway through the 3rd quarter, Iriafen is pacing USC with 18 points.

USC leading 48-39.