WBB: Stanford 66 Gonzaga 62 - Printable Version

WBB: Stanford 66 Gonzaga 62 - Printable Version

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RE: WBB: Stanford vs. Gonzaga 1pm Sunday - chimera - 11-21-2021

I did not see anything until it was 9-8 so can't comment on the beginning. I am of two minds. Gonzaga is very good, very fundamentally sound and well coached, and they always give us a very tough game. Winning there without Jones and with our rotation and guard play still in flux is a great win. OTOH we certainly made it harder than it needed to be. Those late FTs, my goodness, that was just dreadful. Both Hulls used to be money from the line. What happened?

To the good, we shot a good percentage, held them in the 30's, so the defense was ok. We stood around too much on offense but shot 48% so I guess it was working. Rebounding edge, though should have been better with our height vs theirs. Turnovers were not bad. 13? Lacie had a couple of tough ones but 7 assists and 4 turnovers is reasonable for her, a non-point guard pressed into service there. I do think we just can't play Lacie and Wilson together much unless Anna starts scoring a little.

Jump had a very good game and I think gets the game ball for the timely threes that got the lead down to manageable. Belibi had a good game, kept us in it early until Gonzaga pulled away to the big lead they had. Prechtel did ok but needs to rebound better.

Brink did well when she was in except for the fouling. I thought the officials called a ticky tacky game, not great for either team, but some of those fouls she has to stop doing. We need her out there.

Bottom line, aside from the wretched FT shooting and that stretch where the defense let the Zags build that lead, it was not a terrible game considering Jones was out. The offense needs work. Still too much standing around at times. Defense cranked it up more as the game went on but needs to be consistently great.

I don't love that Iriafen was in and out so quickly. She made a mistake but either don't play her or give her a few minutes to get the jitters out before deciding she is not cutting it on the day. Same with Demetre. Our depth is not that deep. We are not playing the frosh much. We need more from them with three very tough games in three days coming up. I don't expect to win them all even if Jones is back, and especially if she is not.

Oh yeah, again no minutes for Van Gytenbeek or Hamilton, who were supposed to back up Wilson at the point, or at least that was the word from Tara before the season started. Not great if they can't even get onto the court. I still think this murderer's row of a schedule is not that helpful. We need games where we can let the frosh learn and get players like Jana and Jordan get some time, see what they can do. Hard to do that with a bunch of top 25 games in a row.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. Gonzaga 1pm Sunday - mbdude - 11-21-2021

Another requirement for point guard would be making free throws

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. Gonzaga 1pm Sunday - Phogge - 11-21-2021

I didn't watch. But I think it's still November and the tournament is in March. I would wait a bit before panicking. After all David Shaw is not the head coach of women's hoops.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. Gonzaga 1pm Sunday - stanford22 - 11-21-2021

(11-21-2021, 05:40 PM)mbdude Wrote: Another requirement for point guard would be making free throws

Free throws, layups, breaking the press. All needs work. I don’t know how they are going to beat the really good teams with our current point guard play. All teams will pressure us. We had a 10 sec called when we didn’t get it over half court. I would like to see Tara try Jana. We lose Lacie’s shooting too. I think she got tired at the end, and that might have contributed to her missing free throws.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. Gonzaga 1pm Sunday - BillBradley - 11-21-2021

I'm in the same camp as other posters in that it was a pretty good win. You can't play without your best player and then have Cam on the bench most of the first half and expect things to go smoothly. Plus Gonzaga shot the lights out the first 15 minutes. Other thoughts not already posted:

- I thought Tara coached a nice game. Best decision was to bring in Brink and Jump with 3 minutes left in the 2nd. We went on an immediate run.
- Game ball to Hannah Jump. I think it's a positive tradeoff to take her offense over Wilson's defense at this point. I liked that she started the second half and really thought Tara showed great confidence in her. Missed her first 2 but then followed with 4 straight! Hanna also had 3 assists and no turnovers. Great game!
- Interior defense and rebounding was awful. Belibi and Prechtel really need to improve here given how they've played so far.
- FT's were bad all around, and especially Lacie's late in the game. Not Lacie's best game, but not that bad (7 assists, 5 boards, 5 points, 1 steal, 4 TO's). I'm still on the side of Lacie being our PG. To be clear, I am a Jana fan and would love to see her get some minutes. My preference would be alongside Lacie, but not in place of Lacie. Given her size, strength, and speed, I simply doubt Jana could replace all the other things Lacie does on the court (defense, steals, rebounding, etc.) and have it be a net addition. Maybe start Jump and have Jana sub in for her a few times during the game? Agree with everyone else that this schedule makes it tough to get the bench some needed development minutes.
- I haven't heard a thing, but my guess is Haley did get injured in the last game. Hope we have her back for the next 3! Without her, we're obviously not a Top-10 team...

Go Card!

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. Gonzaga 1pm Sunday - Card10Fan - 11-21-2021

No direct insight but if it was a serious injury to Jones, she likely would not have even made the trip right? Jenna Brown didn’t travel to Spokane with the team. When Carrington was out two years ago with injury, she didn’t travel to any road games aside from the Pac12 and NCAA tourney. Team is also returning to CA tonight so not headed straight to Bahamas.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. Gonzaga 1pm Sunday - 81alum - 11-21-2021

(11-21-2021, 02:56 PM)spike5882 Wrote:
(11-21-2021, 02:48 PM)PalmTree Wrote:
(11-21-2021, 02:46 PM)paloalto Wrote:

Tara is obviously a great coach, but this team is not going to succeed with Lacie at pg and this is the time Tara should be figuring it out. You can't have three low scorers starting every game together (Wilson and the Hulls). We need some points and we need Jana to be given a choice to lead an offense.

Just saw this. Wilson and Lacie are not normally high scorers, but each have sometimes scored in double digits. Lexie, however, is averaging 11.3 ppg, our 3rd leading scorer, and that is on par with last year too. She scored 24 against UCLA in the Pac 12 tourney last year. She is not a low scorer.

However, I take your point. I don't like having any of the five being players that the other team can feel comfortable sagging off or putting their weakest defender on, and certainly not 2. Wilson's viability as a point guard has always been predicated on her opening up her offense, and that has not happened. Nor has Lacie.

(11-21-2021, 03:30 PM)spike5882 Wrote:
(11-21-2021, 03:02 PM)martyup Wrote:
(11-21-2021, 02:56 PM)spike5882 Wrote:

Also, even as a die hard Stanford fan, calling Tara the best coach in college basketball is a stretch. Certainly one of the best and an incredible career, but pretty sure 99 out of 100 would give that honor to Geno.

I can't let this one go. Much of Geno's success is with recruiting, and much of that is predicated on the UCONN/ESPN network subsidizing his program with fawning free publicity for decades. Tara never had that kind of advantage, and her recruiting was always much more limited by academics than his could be. (Hint: Football at Stanford has significantly more relaxed academic requirements than WBB, in which it is not uncommon for every single player to have come in with a 4.0 in high school.) Given the gigantic advantages that Geno has had over Tara, I think it remarkable that Tara has done as well as she has. Whatever the 99 who get their sports news from ESPN might think, Tara's accomplishments are, in my view, simply superior to Geno's when taking all the circumstances into account.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. Gonzaga 1pm Sunday - 81alum - 11-21-2021

1) In reviewing the box score, what is remarkable to me is how close the stat lines are for the two teams. Assists, offensive rebounds, total rebounds, blocks, steals, and turnovers were all very close to each other.

2) Keeping the turnovers down to 13 after the way the game started was something of an accomplishment. Obviously room for improvement, but last year we averaged 12.8 turnovers per game.

3) Lacie's 7 assists were excellent, her 4 turnovers not good but probably acceptable. What was missing was sufficient offense from her.

4) Wilson, largely freed of point guard duties, went back to last year's defensive stopper. She did not attempt even a single shot.

5) If we made the same percentage of free throws as Gonzaga, the game would not have been close. That is really the major story--our free throw shooting is abominable. We have had the same sort of problem in past years at times. There never seems to be any rhyme or reason to it.

6) I give full credit to Hannah Jump. Not only did she score 14 points, she gave us 8 points right when we needed them most--when Gonzaga was out to a 15 point lead. If she doesn't come in and start hitting shots then--I think the hole gets so deep that we never crawl out of it.

7) The scouting report defense worked. Kaylynne Truong, their leading scorer, was held to 1/6 shooting. Instead, their 4th leading scorer had a good game. That is the way Stanford designs it--force the other team to beat you with their 4th and 5th best players. Unfortunately for us, they nearly succeeded.

RE: WBB: Stanford 66 Gonzaga 62 - 81alum - 11-22-2021

Here are some game highlights from the Gonzaga point-of-view. I wish there were some from the Stanford point-of-view, but since this was not on Pac 12 network or a major network I imagine this is all that will be forthcoming.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYtTg5QhiBU

I think all 20 of their field goals are in this reel, so it should provide good material for analyzing what went wrong with our defense. Now, holding a team to the low 60s is not terrible defense, but what this reel of Zag buckets shows me is:

1) Many of their fgs occurred when their point guard penetrated and then dished out to a mid range shooter. We want teams to take the long mid-range shots, they are the worst shots statistically. But of course it doesn't matter if they go in. The highlight reel doesn't show the 24 shots they missed. But in the first quarter especially Gonzaga was hitting all of these.

2) As far as the inside shots, for the most part I thought we defended well in the paint. Gonzaga scored over Belibi, over Prechtel, over Jerome, and over Jump from inside. In most cases it seemed to me as if we bodied them up pretty well and forced difficult shots, and some went in. They had 22 points in the paint, which is pretty low. On the other hand, the highlights don't show all the shots we stopped with fouls--and free throw shooting was Gonzaga's forte.

RE: WBB: Stanford 66 Gonzaga 62 - Card10Fan - 11-22-2021

ESPN weekly power rankings. When discussing Stanford, inference Haley Jones was taking a mental health day

https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/32686084/women-college-basketball-power-rankings-maryland-good-enough-win-ncaa-title

RE: WBB: Stanford 66 Gonzaga 62 - Softball Fan - 11-22-2021

(11-22-2021, 08:38 AM)Card10Fan Wrote: ESPN weekly power rankings. When discussing Stanford, inference Haley Jones was taking a mental health day

https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/32686084/women-college-basketball-power-rankings-maryland-good-enough-win-ncaa-title

We will know even more before Maryland -- which last made the Final Four in 2015 and won its lone NCAA title in 2006 -- travels to South Carolina for a Dec. 12 matchup on ESPN.

Mechelle, couldn't you note Maryland plays Stanford on Saturday? Maryland's game against South Carolina might turn out to not be that big a deal.

There was a brief summary about Stanford. It's difficult to ascertain if the sentence about the allegation of Stanford mental health struggles last season is related to the sentence about Jones being unavailable against GU. Probably it was but that seems to be idle speculation on Mechelle's part.

RE: WBB: Stanford 66 Gonzaga 62 - BostonCard - 11-22-2021

You know, they could have at least linked Brewer’s article…

Here it is. Worth a read.

https://globalsportmatters.com/health/2021/11/17/stanford-womens-basketball-championship-pandemic-mental-health/

BC

(11-22-2021, 08:54 AM)paloalto Wrote: Mechelle, couldn't you note Maryland plays Stanford on Saturday? Maryland's game against South Carolina might turn out to not be that big a deal.

She did.

Quote: The Terps, who brought back almost their entire roster from last season, will find out more about themselves this week. At the Baha Mar Pink Flamingo tournament in the Bahamas, they'll meet fellow top-10 teams NC State (Thursday) and Stanford (Saturday).

Hence the quote that we’ll know even more.

BC

RE: WBB: Stanford 66 Gonzaga 62 - amytarafan - 11-22-2021

We drove 3-4 hours to the game which, as was true for the game in the Hulls' first year, featured a very packed and vocal crowd. One end section had about 20 rows and was full on one side with a band and on the other with students. They were both very engaged in the game with lots of rhythmic chanting, arm waving, and jumping up-and-down. They and the rest of the fans put our usual Maples crowd to shame.

The Hulls had numerous family and fans there including the man next to us who had been an assistant coach on their high school team and showed us his 3-season championship ring their team won (when they lost, I think, one game in 3 years). He was rooting for Stanford, but otherwise it was a very partisan crowd.

The first 12-15 minutes were dreadful. The Zags were playing well and with a lot of tude, and we looked somewhat lost. Maybe the players were tight knowing this would be the Hulls last game in Spokane (unless we get seeded to that regional) and hence wanting to win for them?

Jump and Prechtel made the difference in the 2nd quarter - along with some key defensive stops and steals. And Jump's floater included a very good fake pass to the wing. I thought it was a very impressive move for her.

During the half-time warm-up, Tara walked across the floor to where Prechtel was draining 3 after 3 and talked to her for a good bit. My guess was that she was telling her that if she was open, she should take the 3 (and she did take two early in the 3rd quarter, but from near the bench and both missed).

There was nothing visibly wrong with Jones and she was clearly into the game. As has been said, with better free-throw shooting we would have won easily. But we won without that and without Jones, and we had very balanced scoring: 4 players with 10 or more and Prechtel with 8.

RE: WBB: Stanford 66 Gonzaga 62 - BobK - 11-22-2021

Great post sir. Great you were at the game

RE: WBB: Stanford 66 Gonzaga 62 - WBB fan - 11-22-2021

(11-22-2021, 09:41 AM)BostonCard Wrote: You know, they could have at least linked Brewer’s article…

Here it is. Worth a read.

https://globalsportmatters.com/health/2021/11/17/stanford-womens-basketball-championship-pandemic-mental-health/

BC

(11-22-2021, 08:54 AM)paloalto Wrote: Mechelle, couldn't you note Maryland plays Stanford on Saturday? Maryland's game against South Carolina might turn out to not be that big a deal.

She did.

Quote: The Terps, who brought back almost their entire roster from last season, will find out more about themselves this week. At the Baha Mar Pink Flamingo tournament in the Bahamas, they'll meet fellow top-10 teams NC State (Thursday) and Stanford (Saturday).

Hence the quote that we’ll know even more.

BC

Thanks so much for the link. This article is most definitely worth reading -- very, very powerful, and gives us a far different perspective on last season than I've seen before this. Brewer writes so well, with feeling and understanding, drawing on her own experience and knowledge of her former teammates. Only she could have written this article. I've always been a fan of hers, as a person as much as if not more than a basketball player.

RE: WBB: Stanford 66 Gonzaga 62 - 81alum - 11-22-2021

(11-22-2021, 09:41 AM)BostonCard Wrote: You know, they could have at least linked Brewer’s article…

Here it is. Worth a read.

https://globalsportmatters.com/health/2021/11/17/stanford-womens-basketball-championship-pandemic-mental-health/

BC

Thanks for that link! I was looking for it!

Yes, it is worth a read. Hard to know how to evaluate it. Concerning, certainly.

RE: WBB: Stanford 66 Gonzaga 62 - teejers1 - 11-22-2021

(11-22-2021, 12:47 PM)81alum Wrote: Yes, it is worth a read. Hard to know how to evaluate it. Concerning, certainly.

Always hard to evaluate things that are big on generalities and low on specifics.

RE: WBB: Stanford 66 Gonzaga 62 - biketoc - 11-22-2021

Thanks BostonCard for the link. That really is worth reading for everyone who followed the team last year.... and, well, everyone.

(11-22-2021, 12:47 PM)81alum Wrote:
(11-22-2021, 09:41 AM)BostonCard Wrote: You know, they could have at least linked Brewer’s article…

Here it is. Worth a read.

https://globalsportmatters.com/health/2021/11/17/stanford-womens-basketball-championship-pandemic-mental-health/

BC

Thanks for that link! I was looking for it!

Yes, it is worth a read. Hard to know how to evaluate it. Concerning, certainly.