WBB: Stanford 67 -- Washington 72

WBB: Stanford 67 -- Washington 72 - Printable Version

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RE: WBB: Stanford 67 -- Washington 72 - MV72018 - 02-05-2023

(02-05-2023, 03:25 PM)martyup Wrote: Tonight it was rebounding that cost us the game. This was one of our best shooting games of the season. We shot 48% -- 44% -- 92.3%. UW shot 43.1% -- 30% -- 76.2%.

We were out rebounded 34 to 24. UW had 11 offensive rebounds to our 2.

Let's not forget assist-to-turnover ratio: we had 16 TOs and 16 As. UW had 18 As and only 11 TOs. In short, they took at lot better care of the ball than we did. I agree with you that rebound seriously hurt us. Moral: Brink is too thin to be a good rebounder when playing with people her size. Brink had only 6 reebs and 0 blocks. Roaming Haley had only 4 reebs. UW had 11 offensive reebs and we had only 2! What's up with that? Not surprisingly UW had 8 more shots than SU. Ballgame turned on turnovers and reebs.

RE: WBB: Stanford @ Washington Sunday 12pm - cardfan1996 - 02-05-2023

(02-05-2023, 03:17 PM)JohnR34231 Wrote:
(02-05-2023, 03:10 PM)cardfan1996 Wrote:
(02-05-2023, 03:07 PM)MV72018 Wrote: A complete collapse in the crunch, just like we did in Q4 against South Carolina.

This team doesn't do well in tight games. Too bad. Lot of talent but, I'm unthrilled with the coaching and adjustments since the USC loss.

Haley allegedly switched to the 4 and bringing the ball up most of the time and leading us in assists? Give me a break.

Haley is horrible at the 1 - leading in assist AND turnovers but Lepolo cannot “see” the floor at all. She is a horrible passer in the halfcourt hence why she was on the bench for a long time before Tara brought her back in to seal the deal on the loss.

Earlier in the year Lepolo was getting a lot of kudos for her efforts.
I guess that's freshmen. Up and down play.

Not from me. She can’t make post passes in a post-first offense hence why Brooke has to come in. Stanford post will have a great seal with the hand out showing Lepolo exactly where to pass it, no backside help and Lepolo can’t do it. Earlier in the year, she would pass it into backside help like she couldn’t see at all. That does not bode well for running good offense.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 -- Washington 72 - BosCard - 02-05-2023

I am going to try and not overreact. Yes we have more than enough talent to win with a sick Brink. But she had a bad game relative to her usual production. Not great rebounding and not great defensively. We rely on her so much defensively that when she’s not 100% things aren’t great. Hopefully Brink gets better and we finish the season strong.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 -- Washington 72 - old spanish trail - 02-05-2023

Brink is fine when playing people of her size when she's not sick.

RE: WBB: Stanford @ Washington Sunday 12pm - MV72018 - 02-05-2023

(02-05-2023, 03:04 PM)martyup Wrote:
(02-05-2023, 03:01 PM)MV72018 Wrote:
(02-05-2023, 03:00 PM)martyup Wrote: I hate these Friday night followed by Sunday games.

Even if we play well and win?

These are young kids, come on.

It's probably not physical. More mental. Our loss to USC was a Sunday game following a Friday night game. We played a superb game on Friday night against WSU and layed an egg tonight.

Kiss our #1 seed goodbye.

Probably so.

RE: WBB: Stanford @ Washington Sunday 12pm - CompSci87 - 02-05-2023

(02-05-2023, 01:34 PM)mbdude Wrote: That wasn't an intentional foul

Intentional foul in the rules doesn't mean you did it intentionally. It's just what used to be called flagrant 1. I haven't checked the latest rules, but I assume a swinging elbow to the face is an "intentional" by rule.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 -- Washington 72 - cardfan1996 - 02-05-2023

(02-05-2023, 03:30 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: Sorry to disagree with CardFan and MV, but I thought going big with Haley bringing the ball up was absolutely the right thing to do. I was sorry Tara didn't stick with the big lineup till the end. Unfortunately. even then, Fran understandably got a little tired and Cam was clearly under the weather.
The Fran and Cam duo made sense with Haley at the 3/1 and Demetre and Jump.

Wash doesn't have quick, pesky guards who need to be defended by Agnes. But, those stockier, bigger guards had the game of their lives when compared to 81's statistics. And, Daniels had a great game.They deserved the win.

Any time you have Fran and Kiki, both post, running through off ball screens, it’s bad news. I can’t count the times both allowed themselves to be screened and Washington got open shots. Plus defensive is no good if you cannot end a defensive stand with a rebound. Fran is an above average offensive rebounder. She has never been a good defender in the post (or on the perimeter) and she is not Stanford’s best defensive rebounder.

RE: WBB: Stanford @ Washington Sunday 12pm - CompSci87 - 02-05-2023

(02-05-2023, 02:12 PM)TonyLima Wrote: There are two 3 point lines on the floor. Which is which? Thanks.

The outer one is current for both men's and women's college basketball.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 -- Washington 72 - jonnyss - 02-05-2023

elle ladine is one that got away. from sunnyvale (not sure why the announcers kept saying san francisco). pinewood high school. last year's top bay area player (over talana lepolo) per sf chronicle and was in the news a lot as player of the week. i was surprised we didn't offer her. then again i don't know her high school gpa.

she has been improving as the season progresses. 10 points in 18 minutes, 2/2 from 3, against cal on friday.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 -- Washington 72 - old spanish trail - 02-05-2023

Totally agree the offensive rebounding was offensive. There often wasn't sufficient effort.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 -- Washington 72 - JohnR34231 - 02-05-2023

(02-05-2023, 03:45 PM)jonnyss Wrote: elle ladine is one that got away. from sunnyvale (not sure why the announcers kept saying san francisco). pinewood high school. last year's top bay area player (over talana lepolo) per sf chronicle and was in the news a lot as player of the week. i was surprised we didn't offer her. then again i don't know her high school gpa.

she has been improving as the season progresses. 10 points in 18 minutes, 2/2 from 3, against cal on friday.

If you look at her bio on the Washington website it says San Francisco.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 -- Washington 72 - BostonCard - 02-05-2023

We weren’t looking too good when we lost back to back games against Colorado and UCLA two years ago. Unless you are a truly dominant team (and we aren’t), to win a title it takes a combination of talent and luck. I think we could win our last six, but it would take better play than today to do so, and, against the very top teams (eg South Carolina), we probably need them to not play their best as well.

BC

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 -- Washington 72 - TheWildJacko - 02-05-2023

Well this game sucked, but just remember, one year TN won a championship with 10 losses.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 -- Washington 72 - BobK - 02-05-2023

I believe we offered Ladine or couldn’t I do know Stanford was interested as was she. Her dad had coached at Burton in SF she presumably she lived there.
I have wondered for awhile if her grandfather is Kirk who played at Stanford on the 60s ? Great HS player. Anyone know?

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 -- Washington 72 - treetop11 - 02-05-2023

This game certainly raises doubts about out chances in the NCAAs if not whether we can even win the P12. I had a bad feeling about this game prior to its start.

We shot better from 3, from the line, and overall, but we got beat badly on the boards and had too many TO's. The rebounding deficit was due to something I observed and commented early in the season. We don't execute fundamentals well on rebounding. We rrely too much on our size and don;t block out like we should.

I didn't like our rotation today nor the lineup with Haley at point. Leopolo isn't the same since her injury and Nivar didn't get much time. Jump has been off on her shot - she's pressing.

But all that aside, we lost because UW outhustled us. We had a lack of intensity and couldn't crank up pressure on D. The offense was too stagnant and we didn't move the ball well. UW just played like they wanted it more. And I've noticed for a number of games now, we are getting very few run outs/fast breaks. We had one today, but that was the first I recall in a while.

Players and coaches will have to do some soul searching as we clearly aren't a smooth running machine.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 -- Washington 72 - chimera - 02-05-2023

That was one bad loss that will mean no #1 seed. Give credit to UW, who played a great game. They made plenty of tough shots They also executed their offense better down the stretch and played smarter.  We lost the game with poor rebounding, too many silly turnovers (trying to pass to a post with three defenders right there, stuff like that), dumb fouls late (both Brink and Demetre swiped at a UW rebounder who had a defensive board secured near our basket when there was no reason to swipe at the ball, which I think put UW on the line and did not make them run a play to score), and overall poor defensive play. UW had better schemes for their personnel than we did in this game.

It was great to see Demetre shoot that well, and it should have been a real positive, but when you blow a game like this, there are no positives. I can't disagree with the thought that Lepolo has hit a ceiling in conference play. She is not able to create offense for others, and yes, not able to get the ball inside as well as we need. Not turning the ball over and passing around the perimeter is not enough from our pg. We don't necessarily need a point guard who is a big scorer, but we do need one who can make the defense shift and create shots for others.

Rebounding was such a low point. We've been so good at that and suddenly so bad the past few games.  We often had Jump and Demetre outside and Jones running the point, so Jones was not able to rebound like she can and like we need her to do if we go with the smaller line-up. If she is going to play the point, we need two bigs in there to rebound. I thought Belibi helped when she first came in (we came back from down 10), but not so much late with the line-ups that were out there with her. Did we play much of Brink and Iriafen together?

Where oh where was Bosgana? Seems like a game she could have really helped. She is much more a threat to drive than Jump or Demetre and can shoot outside. She can drive and dish.  She makes stuff happen, which we needed late. She is a good defender with those long arms, could have helped there maybe too. Where was Betts? She played well against WSU, did not see the floor. These players can't be happy with how their playing time is doled out.

This sort of loss in early Jan can happen. By February, the team should be on an upswing and not play uninspired, not smart basketball. UW just played. They had more energy and hustle.  We kept doubling off them only to see a quick pass to a cutter for a layup.

My overall take is the team is not where they need to be at this point in the season. I understand why Tara is using the bench like she has, trying to fit players in based on match ups and need, but it is not really working that well. Players must be struggling to understand why they play, why they don't, when they will play, etc. Hard to be consistently good when you play zero minutes one game or two minutes and 15 minutes the next. We now have the same problem as last year but worse - the two starting guards barely score and they are also not the defensive monsters we had last season. Kind of the worst of both worlds, if you will.  I don't think there is a good answer at this point. How come we could not get the ball inside well enough even with two shooters on the floor at once for much of the game (Jump and Demetre)? That sure should have spaced the floor.

This is a very good team but not a #2 team and maybe not a top 5 team. The pieces just do not fit well enough and I think the coaches are still not really sure what to do with some players. Right now the team is the Jones/Brink show too much. If Jump is only getting off a few shots, do not play her 40 minutes. Get Bosgana out there or Nivar with fresh energy. If we are only playing one post, Jones can't be the 1, so play two posts. Why no high low Brink to Betts or Iriafen? Why not more drives from players like Nivar or Bosgana? This team confused me so much. I like the individual players. I don't think the whole is greater than the sum of its parts and I don't think we are getting the maximum from too many players.

If I had to bet I would bet we lose another couple of games before the P-12 tournament. Lesson was not learned at USC, and adjustments were made but did not fix the fundamental problem - nice pieces but a flawed team with a muddled rotation that is not getting enough out of the talent at hand. that's my take and I'm sticking with it. A truly strong Stanford team does not lose to this UW team, even if UW played a whale of a game.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 -- Washington 72 - cardfan1996 - 02-05-2023

(02-05-2023, 03:55 PM)BostonCard Wrote: We weren’t looking too good when we lost back to back games against Colorado and UCLA two years ago. Unless you are a truly dominant team (and we aren’t), to win a title it takes a combination of talent and luck. I think we could win our last six, but it would take better play than today to do so, and, against the very top teams (eg South Carolina), we probably need them to not play their best as well.

BC

We lost those because Fran was in the starting lineup and we couldn’t defensive rebound at UCLA or defensive rebound or hold on to the ball at Colorado.

We can get back on track if, like 2021, we change the starting lineup. Brink for Belibi was an easy decision. I have no faith she will replace Agnes and Lepolo with the right players, or replace them at all.

Tara keeps recycling bad decisions. We already saw how ineffective on offense Agnes and Lepolo in November. We saw how bad Haley was at the 1 in the very first exhibition game. Why are we still seeing this stuff in February?

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 -- Washington 72 - MV72018 - 02-05-2023

(02-05-2023, 04:24 PM)cardfan1996 Wrote:
(02-05-2023, 03:55 PM)BostonCard Wrote: We weren’t looking too good when we lost back to back games against Colorado and UCLA two years ago. Unless you are a truly dominant team (and we aren’t), to win a title it takes a combination of talent and luck. I think we could win our last six, but it would take better play than today to do so, and, against the very top teams (eg South Carolina), we probably need them to not play their best as well.

BC

We lost those because Fran was in the starting lineup and we couldn’t defensive rebound at UCLA or defensive rebound or hold on to the ball at Colorado.

We can get back on track if, like 2021, we change the starting lineup. Brink for Belibi was an easy decision. I have no faith she will replace Agnes and Lepolo with the right players, or replace them at all.

Tara keeps recycling bad decisions. We already saw how ineffective on offense Agnes and Lepolo in November. We saw how bad Haley was at the 1 in the very first exhibition game. Why are we still seeing this stuff in February?

Because Tara is unwilling or too indecisive to shake things up by making significant permanent or semi-permanent changes in the lineup (or in offensive strategy), thereby giving the starters AMPLE TIME to get really used to each other, which can be invaluable in tight games. That comfort level doesn't result when the coach makes never-ending personnel changes from game to game. Btw, the in-bounds play late was poorly designed. Also on Tara. I think that this team is soft and would be beaten comfortably by UConn or South Carolina. I don't think we've improved much since we lost to the Gamecocks earlier in the season. In fact, I think this team has regressed. I also think there's a >50% chance we won't win the PAC-12 Tournament, unless Tara is able to make serious adjustments, but I don't see that as likely to happen.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 -- Washington 72 - chimera - 02-05-2023

(02-05-2023, 04:24 PM)cardfan1996 Wrote:
(02-05-2023, 03:55 PM)BostonCard Wrote: We weren’t looking too good when we lost back to back games against Colorado and UCLA two years ago. Unless you are a truly dominant team (and we aren’t), to win a title it takes a combination of talent and luck. I think we could win our last six, but it would take better play than today to do so, and, against the very top teams (eg South Carolina), we probably need them to not play their best as well.

BC

We lost those because Fran was in the starting lineup and we couldn’t defensive rebound at UCLA or defensive rebound or hold on to the ball at Colorado.

We can get back on track if, like 2021, we change the starting lineup. Brink for Belibi was an easy decision. I have no faith she will replace Agnes and Lepolo with the right players, or replace them at all.

Tara keeps recycling bad decisions. We already saw how ineffective on offense Agnes and Lepolo in November. We saw how bad Haley was at the 1 in the very first exhibition game. Why are we still seeing this stuff in February?

My answer to your last question is that there are not great options. Two bigs and one shooter did not work and was ditched. the small line-up was helpful for a bit but in the end is not going to work well enough because we still have just one shooter out there, the starting guards don't score or create shots for others well enough, and now the rebounding is suffering when Jones is on the perimeter and we are still in a smaller line-up. I don't know a solution that would jell in time. The bench hasn't played enough to really get comfortable. If I was the boss I might consider starting Nivar at the 2 if we keep the small line-up or Bosgana. Nivar hasn't scored much but I feel it is there, she just needs time on court, which we may not have enough of left this season.

I actually might go something like Brink, Jones, Demetre, Jump and Lepolo or Brink, Jones, Bosgana, Jump and Nivar or Lepolo if they want to stay small, or if they want to go bigger again, I'd go Iriafen (or even Betts), Brink, Jones, Bosgana, Nivar or Lepolo. I don't really think Nivar is a solution at pg this season. Rather see her at the 2. At any rate, I would want to play my drivers more (Nivar and Bosgana) and not go with only one perimeter shooter pretty much ever. Eh I don't know. I am talking out my butt at this point. O and D broke down late, both need something.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 -- Washington 72 - MV72018 - 02-05-2023

(02-05-2023, 04:04 PM)TheWildJacko Wrote: Well this game sucked, but just remember, one year TN won a championship with 10 losses.

True, but they continued to improve over time. We haven't; in fact we are regressing.